So why people say that vauban is bad?

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Il y a 4 heures, DreisterDino a dit :

And to all the guys saying "2 of his 4 abilities are useless, thats why".

Guess what, Nobody cares for Mesa's 1 and 2 aswell, but the community loves her.

Why? she can shred everything with just the ult while being hard to kill with damage reduction, thats all people want.

Nobody cared for Embers or banshees first 3 abilities before the 4th got nerfed, so stop pretending that you want some kind of good kit where you use each ability if you just wanna kill or cc everything that comes in a radius of 50m close to you while being basically invincible.

Except I want a good kit for Vauban, not some DPS/one shot shenanigan, just something coherent.

Bastille so far is the only power that actually serves a purpose in his entire kit and even then it feels clunky due to a number of bugs associated with it like enemies passing through it or the "hover" animation throwing the enemy up and down fanatically practically preventing headshots.

I dare argue that Ember augments make 1 and 2 useful and that Banshee's sonar and silence are much more efficient than any other ability that vauban has.

-Tesla is useless, the augment is terrible.

-Minesweeper has practically no use due to its very shallow situational range.
"Throw Bounce on interception pads" is as far as it goes since literally everything else is done better by any other warframe.
(Armor removal, enemy confusion, weak trip CC and whatsnot)

-Bastille is buggy af. Augment bugging out with it.

-Vortex pulls enemies, glitches them inside walls with no indication whatsoever and deals no damage. Augment just makes it more useless over time.

-The passive is cool though.
No idea when it activates though considering everything dies in one hit either way, but it's cool.

Like, I'm looking at the new Fortuna enemies as a Vauban and I feel jealous.
The Comba units have wide range static AoE that stops my ability cast and lowers my visibility.
The bursas units have a single cast barrage drop of explosive seismic waves grenades that knock backs everything around them.
Our own moas have a quick-cast Vortex that pulls enemies in quick bundle with no energy cost.
Eximus have Auras that lower your armor and slow your down
The giant spider has a literal Net of electric staggering death.

Where can I get those toys??

[Marvelous_A]

Mines are literally useless in this game due to terrible AI pathing. Most of the time only infested will trigger them coz they have no choice but get close to you. Their effects are underwhelming as well.

His 3rd and 4th work against each other which one repels the enemies when another one needs enemies to get close to you. Both of them are glitchy as hell.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[Ekemeister]

21 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Mines are literally useless in this game due to terrible AI pathing. Most of the time only infested will trigger them coz they have no choice but get close to you. Their effects are underwhelming as well.

His 3rd and 4th work against each other which one repels the enemies when another one needs enemies to get close to you. Both of them are glitchy as hell.

Also, 2 of the mines (concuss & shred) are single use only. Bounce and Trip mine, if used at choke points, can reduce kills / min drastically.

The kit can be used well; endless runs can be done. But I agree; why use a knight when the roster is loaded with bishops, rooks, and queens? 

[Tazrizen]

On 2018-12-27 at 12:38 AM, thestraki said:

I do not think that vauban is a good character but at the same time i dont think that he is indeed useless, like you can use bounce in the interception points so that they cant capture it, or you can use bastile to hold a large amount of enemy's, or you can use shred for a more combat approach, or you can slap 1,000 teslas in your friend and watch everybody die, I know that maybe I am going to tatical here but that is what I love about this character, you dont press the melee button until you finish your mission or broke your keyboard, you can make every mission different you can put hundreds of teslas in the roof, or you can use trip laser in the enemy spawn, or you can use vortex to put a good amount of enemys in one place so that you can kill every single one of them, and that is the problem almost every single warframe in the game make is job sometimes much better but I dont know why I just really like the frame I spend twousends of hours making it and I really enjoy playing it, I really wish that digital extremes make this character better, and more accessible then he is right now.

 

 

It's not that he's bad, it's that he isn't better at anything another frame can do. 

He is basically a squishy that has 2 abilities that do basically the same thing and 2 other abilities that are made useless by just using a weapon that does the same thing. 

 

Tesla? Why not use tether nades?

Shredder? Why not use corrosive procs?

Concuss? Why not use rad procs or just rad disarm loki?

Bounce? Why not just use bastille? 

 

It's one thing if a frame has this one odd ability no one really uses much, like mesa's Ballistic battery, but it's not like people don't want those to be updated as well, because quite frankly, mesa's shooting gallery already buffs her damage. 

 

Vauban is basically a frame that is all CC though, but if you have one ability that does all the things the rest of the kit does then what's the point of using the rest of your kit? They might as well name him bastille instead. 

 

I posted a (poorly formatted) rework concept that made it so that his mines were his primary CC tool and bastille was an enabler, turning him into this press 3 for CC machine into a fortifier sort of frame that made anyone that was foolish enough to enter a bastille absolutely miserable. 

[birdobash]

It's because of the core design of the game that vauban is considered bad in comparison.

Warframe at its core is a fast paced horde shooter with lots and lots of mobs, more than other games, but because of this the most meta thing to do is efficiently destroy all mobs in sight or out of sight as quick as possible, not just CC them indefinitely to make them unable to hurt you.

If vauban was a character in a game like destiny or destiny 2 he would be broken af, being able to indefinitely CC entire squadrons of enemies, but the design of those games are that enemies don't die at the snap of a finger, each and every enemy requires at least a second or more to kill.

Another design of warframe is the more useful and non-situational abilities you have on a frame the better they usually are, atm vauban only has 2 strong abilities that are not situational, Bastille and vortex, very strong CC abilities that can be used anywhere. The problem is the other 2 abilities, tasers and minelayer are very situational abilities. Tasers don't get full value unless you stick them on a teammate because before they can shoot out all their charges all the enemies in the room are dead from you or teammates, plus they do basically no damage and are only useful as stuns for a teammate stuck with them. Minelayer is both situational and has a flaw, Bastille and vortex already CC better than minelayer can, and many weapons are better than throwing out shred and they take less effort.

Edited December 30, 2018 by birdobash

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

21 minutes ago, birdobash said:

It's because of the core design of the game that vauban is considered bad in comparison.

Warframe at its core is a fast paced horde shooter with lots and lots of mobs, more than other games, but because of this the most meta thing to do is efficiently destroy all mobs in sight or out of sight as quick as possible, not just CC them indefinitely to make them unable to hurt you.

If vauban was a character in a game like destiny or destiny 2 he would be broken af, being able to indefinitely CC entire squadrons of enemies, but the design of those games are that enemies don't die at the snap of a finger, each and every enemy requires at least a second or more to kill.

Ah you beat me to it!

But basically this, Vauban's incompatible with the entire design of the game! If this game was more like Crysis 3 or SW Battlefront 2 then he would be extremely powerful but in Warframe you're not getting attacked by someone that does the same amount of damage as you or have the same amount of health where you have to create ideas on how to kill things in safety. No in Warframe you're basically a super nimble god that can be anywhere in seconds while in those other games you have the same movement, defenses and damage as the things you're fighting. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by (XB1)Skiller115

[(PSN)Grnmchn1]

Only reason to vauban is because u got him from alerts and haven't done the limbo theorem 

[thestraki]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

If this game was more like Crysis 3 or SW Battlefront 2 then he would be extremely powerful but in Warframe you're not getting attacked by someone that does the same amount of damage as you or have the same amount of health where you have to create ideas on how to kill things in safety.

vauban was created when the fighting system of Warframe was not the same as today's, people who played the oldest version of the game say that was clunky as hell in that time, they didn't had nuke frames or deadly weapons to use, so Vauban was a jack-of-all-trades, he had bounce to reach higher locations since the parkour didn't work properly "and served to troll others players" he had Bastille to freeze the enemies so our teammates or you would be able to kill them since the damage of the weapons was non-existent "in my opinion", and vortex is an alternative to Bastille that put a good amount of enemies in one place and about Tesla I am sure that was strong in that time,  and from there to here Vauban don't work anymore but that is just me and, btw correct me if I am wrong at any point of this post because I didn't play Warframe in that time

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by thestraki

[Golmihr]

To illustrate just how bad Vauban is: All his abilities combined (including passives) are worse than Octavia's #1.

[thestraki]

https://imgur.com/a/9Z91fV0#Ut7YCUm
and btw happy new year

[C4n0n1ze]

14 minutes ago, thestraki said:

https://imgur.com/a/9Z91fV0#Ut7YCUm
and btw happy new year

Only issue with that rework idea is it doesn't mention any increases to Vauban's base stats or a sustain option. Vauban needs atleast one or the other I believe because when it comes down to harder content (long duration missions and such) it really shows he has neither. I can rely on my pet to help heal me while my Zenistar disc heals my pet.....but after a while Im going down to a detron crewman who snipes me mid air. I also use Adaptation and a Furis with a Winds of Puriety mod if anyone was curious. 😓

[(NSW)Joewoof]

I’ve heard someone suggest thst he should be a grenadier-type character. Maybe his Tesla should becoming something like a barrier generator that prevents all self/ally AoE friendly-fire.

[dEjAvU5566]

Cause vauban skill sucks 

 

Hope you get it...

[ganjou234]

Vauban needs a passive that allows him to survive before he gets to deploy his CC.

Passive: (From)Reinforce -> (To)Ablative Plates: This passive is meant to keep Vauban from dying in the field too quickly.

• Flat 350 Armor, amount unaffected by armor mods, but can be increased by shield mods and modifiers.
  • 1540 Armor if Vauban is equipped with Redirection (440%)
• Armor gets reduced by each point of mitigated damage to health. Fully replenished every time shields are fully charged. (ex. 100 Damage (50% DR) -> 50 Mitigated damage = 50 Points of armor damage)

Minelayer needs to have some changes.

• (From)Triplaser -> (To)Leech Bomb
  • Explodes and heals Vauban for each enemy caught in the blast. (Affected by Power Strength)
  • 4m/6m radius.
• (From)Bounce-> (To)Disarm Bomb
  • Disables weapons for a duration and forces affected enemies to drop ammutnition of a random ammo type.
  • Disarm duration affected by Duration Mods.
  • 4m/6m radius.

[XenMaster]

Better scaling on stats, 100% armor removal with shred, better tesla damage or scalable damage throughout endless enemy level.

 

Vortex and Bastille is strong abilities but his Tesla and Minelayer need overhaul or tweaks so they are worth cast for energy

[ganjou234]

20 hours ago, XenMaster said:

Better scaling on stats, 100% armor removal with shred, better tesla damage or scalable damage throughout endless enemy level.

 

Vortex and Bastille is strong abilities but his Tesla and Minelayer need overhaul or tweaks so they are worth cast for energy

Tesla and his passive needs to be replaced or overhauled (beam weapon mechanics), Bounce Mines and Tripwires need to be totally replaced. He needs something to keep him alive if ever his CC runs out or isn't out yet.

[(PSN)MelchizedekAjnin]

I like Vauban. Simple minded people prefer simple Warframes. Don't give up on him, he's just kinda complicated.

[Aldain]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)MelchizedekAjnin said:

he's just kinda complicated

If by complicated you mean "Does nothing that several other warframes can also do while also providing reasonable damage" then yes, you are right.

Khora's Strangledome can CC enemies just as well as Bastille, Frost's 2 and 4 can slow or stop enemies completely while doing some damage in the case of his 4 and blocking bullets in the case of his 2, Volt can do aoe damage and cc enemies with his 4 and if its modded for it give shields to allies. Sayrn can deal corrosive damage and nuke entire rooms depending on the build, Rhino has an aoe ragdoll slow/knockdown on his 4, even Excalibur has radial blind with can stun enemies and open them to death.

Vauban is many things, complicated is not one of them. Vauban's kit is basic to the point of being physically painful, it is all very simple crowd control that is mostly fire and forget or abilities that have pointless mechanics (Tesla Charging) negligible benefits (Shred reduces armor for a whopping 4 seconds, corrosive procs reduce it PERMANENTLY) or just being plain useless outside of very specific circumstances that can also be solved by just killing enemies rather than trapping them (Trip Laser and lolBounce)

I like the concept of a more tactical warframe as compared to more "unga-bunga" ones, but Vauban is not tactical, he's outclassed in pretty much every way and pretending he's some uber complicated frame only serves to deflect from his actual problems.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

If by complicated you mean "Does nothing that several other warframes can also do while also providing reasonable damage" then yes, you are right.

If this is the case he is overcomplicated. 

[ganjou234]

2 hours ago, Aldain said:

~snip~

The problem is that Vauban should enable more/easier killing through CC (just like Frost), but he cant CC if he's dead (unlike Frost who's actually quite a bit tanky and has frostglobe)...

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by ganjou234

[Aldain]

Just now, ganjou234 said:

but he cant CC if he's dead

Other side of the coin, he can't CC enemies that are already dead. Allies can kill enemies with better efficiency than he can CC them most of the time.

You're right that he's squishy though, I'm sure that back when CC was more relevant him being squishy was a trade-off, but in the current state squishy frames are the ones that can blow up tilesets while the more durable ones have more defense and survival based abilities. Its like Vauban is stuck in a time capsule, or from a different game altogether.

[ganjou234]

14 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Other side of the coin, he can't CC enemies that are already dead. Allies can kill enemies with better efficiency than he can CC them most of the time.

You're right that he's squishy though, I'm sure that back when CC was more relevant him being squishy was a trade-off, but in the current state squishy frames are the ones that can blow up tilesets while the more durable ones have more defense and survival based abilities. Its like Vauban is stuck in a time capsule, or from a different game altogether.

IIRC classic tank classes usually only had CC going for them....

Imagine...

New Passive -> Ablative Plates: This passive is meant to keep Vauban from dying in the field too quickly, but degrades when taking too much punishment.

• 350 Armor, amount unaffected by armor mods, but can be increased by shield mods and modifiers.
  • 1540 Armor (83.70% mitigation) if Vauban is equipped with Redirection (440%)
• Armor gets reduced by each point of mitigated damage to health. Fully replenished every time shields are fully charged.
  • example:  600 Damage (at 83.70% mitigation)= 502.2 Mitigated damage -> 502.2 Points of armor damage 
  • 1540 (armor) - 502.2 (armor damage) = 1037.8  remaining Armor ( remaining 77.58% mitigation) 

I have more suggestions that I've consolidated in my own post.

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by ganjou234