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So why people say that vauban is bad?


thestraki
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I do not think that vauban is a good character but at the same time i dont think that he is indeed useless, like you can use bounce in the interception points so that they cant capture it, or you can use bastile to hold a large amount of enemy's, or you can use shred for a more combat approach, or you can slap 1,000 teslas in your friend and watch everybody die, I know that maybe I am going to tatical here but that is what I love about this character, you dont press the melee button until you finish your mission or broke your keyboard, you can make every mission different you can put hundreds of teslas in the roof, or you can use trip laser in the enemy spawn, or you can use vortex to put a good amount of enemys in one place so that you can kill every single one of them, and that is the problem almost every single warframe in the game make is job sometimes much better but I dont know why I just really like the frame I spend twousends of hours making it and I really enjoy playing it, I really wish that digital extremes make this character better, and more accessible then he is right now.

 

Edited by thestraki
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It's the usual problem with the community. Anything that doesn't fulfill a lockdown a whole map role, instant healing/massive damage reduction role or wipe whole map with a few button role is considered "useless" because "I can just use X instead to cheese the game". Do remember, these are the people who will say Oberon and Harrow are useless because Trinity exists even though those 3 frames operate on very different roles that have an overlap on healing.

Vauban needs some tweaking with his abilities and his base stats. The calls for a complete overhaul is likely never going to result in any real satisfaction unless becomes a different flavor of the top meta.

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I do wish his 1 and 2 work better with his 3 and 4 because the way they perform, i don’t see a reason to use his 1 and 2 where his 3 and 4 does a better Job with CC. Also, that’s his main playstyle with all of his abilities except for MineLayer. But there’s other Frames that can do what he can do when it comes to MineLayer. At least with Nyx after her Rework, she can do other stuff instead of just CC like making a Mind Control do extra damage to enemies when you use the stored damage from your Absorb on the enemy while he/she is invincible and you can strip the Armor of a group of enemies so your Mind Controlled enemies can kill them. 

Enemies are normally bad at killing each other so that’s a bonus from her.

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The issue is that Vauban hasn't aged well with the powercreep of better aoe weapons, maiming strike, and new/reworked frames.

His cc used to be near essential but now we have frames with room/map wide cc or abilities that outright kill rooms of enemies (or both). We simply don't have much use for cc based frames currently and Vauban is pretty much pure cc.

Edited by trst
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32 minutes ago, AndouRaiton said:

-snip-

His 1st and 2nd ability I agree on that needs total change, but his 3rd and 4th I say keep but add unique mechanics to them. It's hard for me to say if Strangle Dome (SD) is better than Bastille due to both being useful with noticeable flaws to both of them.

  • With Strangle Dome it literally pulls enemies into it and ragdolls them. while Bastille you must wait for them to enter
    • However, SD swings the enemies around making it annoying to land shots at them, while Bastille holds them in place
    • SD certainly has damage, but in terms of letting your teammates kill - not so much, again the swinging. Vortex draws enemies to the center allowing teammates to focus fire into one spot, but it's damage is nonexistent
  • SD can only be cast once covering a large area, while Bastille can be cast, not only multiple times, but almost anywhere he pleases by throwing; same with Vortex
    • SD, however, cost less energy for the size of the area it covers while Vauban does cost more for using both 3 and 4 to get the same result as SD

While Khora can certainly hold her own better than Vauban, in terms of helping their teammates - it depends on the situation. If you're in an Interception mission where everyone is separated (remembering that Jupiter Riven Alert Interception mission) providing CC for your teammates while still staying at your point is very handy. But if you're in a defense mission where you know enemies will come towards that one and only objective, Khora is better to use as SD both damages and CC them effectively. And because most of the time your squad mates will stay close SD is more cost-efficient.

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31 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Not really

His 1 and 2 are useless because its 3 and 4 can do what they do and better

Minelayer just sucks,Mines are good on paper but Very Poor in-game.

Which is exactly my point though. His first two abilities could use better mechanics and a more defined role, grenade/claymore rather than a small radius mine. There is no need to completely overhaul him and all of his abilities.

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21 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Mhmmm Yeah and no

Vauban like most frames,needs 1 ability that helps its survability (he is squishy as hell,and if you invest in Survability modsl like vitality,Armor,you are gonna waste abilities mods like Duration and range)

Maybe an exalted drone that gives me some kind of Nano shield? hes a tactical engineer.

I'd prefer it if we didn't devise some bread and butter combination for what abilities each and every frame must have and all of them need some way to mitigate damage. With his speed and design, I think just tweaking his health, shield and armor values a little higher would be more than enough. He currently stands below Excalibur in base stats. Lower his sprint speed ever so slightly and raising up his defensive stats would be enough rather than shoehorning a Shatter Shield to everything.

People are getting too hung up over DE's initial description of him being an Engineer. His ability design has always hinted at him being a Sapper/Saboteur rather than your video game archetype Engineer of placing down turrets, having drones, etc. Have the drone concept be fully fleshed out on a new frame and leave Vauban as a sapper but make him good at doing that job.

Edited by RX-3DR
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41 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Which is exactly my point though. His first two abilities could use better mechanics and a more defined role, grenade/claymore rather than a small radius mine. There is no need to completely overhaul him and all of his abilities.

Well, yes and no. An overhaul is required for his one and two, but not in the sense of scrapping them and starting over, it'd be more akin to Oberon's Rework. Adding scaling, additional functions, buffs and synergy between all of his abilities. Vauban's kit is just outdated, not ineffective, there's a major difference.

Explaining all of the changes I'd want in Vauban's kit in detail would take a long time, so I'll just say some of the additional changes would be making it so his 1 gains 100% lockdown of three enemies (remember how many of these you can place), but when charged, now becomes a strong turret you can also place on walls or players, just as a quick example.

I'm looking for small additions and huge buffs to synergy, really, because just like Nekros, his kit doesn't synergize at all, and sometimes conflicts with itself.

Edited by (XB1)Graysmog
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9 minutes ago, (XB1)Graysmog said:

Well, yes and no. An overhaul is required for his one and two, but not in the sense of scrapping them and starting over, it'd be more akin to Oberon's Rework. Adding scaling, additional functions, buffs and synergy between all of his abilities. Vauban's kit is just outdated, not ineffective, there's a major difference.

Explaining all of the changes I'd want in Vauban's kit in detail would take a long time, so I'll just say some of the additional changes would be making it so his 1 gains 100% lockdown of three enemies (remember how many of these you can place), but when charged, now becomes a strong turret you can also place on walls or players, just as a quick example.

I'm looking for small additions and huge buffs to synergy, really, because just like Nekros, his kit doesn't synergize at all, and sometimes conflicts with itself.

The thing is, many people coming forth with suggestions on reworking Vauban usually advocate for a complete overhaul of his entire design except for Bastille. Usually removing the original design theme in favor for a weird gimmick that might not even do anything besides set him up as a new novelty with a half-developed system. I wouldn't call it a complete overhaul if it changed some functionality of what his abilities do but kept the overall theme of laying down traps, explosives and such.

His current set of skills have a foundation, it just needs to be built up on. There's no need to swap him over to some new gimmick, it would be better to have a new frame designed around that gimmick than to waste the idea with a half-designed system shoehorned into an existing frame because people only care about Bastille.

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Vauban has simply not aged well with the game.

Despite what has been previously stated, being good at only one thing is not the end if the world, but when you have so many others who can do the same thing better and with far more efficiency and survival you have issues.

Vauban is in dire need of having 1 of 2 things happen:

1.  Rework his first 2 abilities to provide some sort of survivability to complement the rest of his kit, or group survivability tools to act as a support so that he can at least compete for an organized group role.  Having a Tesla tower that provides health or energy or armor sounds refreshing.  And it puts him in contention with Trinity and Harrow for support roles.

2. Rework his first 2 abilities to function as advertised; to eliminate and/or neutralize enemies from battle.  Tesla and Minelayer are competing with Spectral Scream and Effigy for the award of the biggest disappointment of skills in game.  Allow them to kill enemies.  Or actually do something besides troll teammates.

So much potential wasted.  DE please.

Edited by (XB1)Thy Divinity
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2 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

I Rather have a "weird" gimmick that some outdated minelayer toys,Really bounce is no longer useful anymore,it was used before as an way to move faster and jump on higher áreas,but that ain't necesary anymore

Thats why they removed Excalibur Super jump.

BTW This is the person they inspired from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sébastien_Le_Prestre_de_Vauban

The weird gimmick itself is not a solution to the problem as it just introduces a new system that may or may not raise his popularity beyond, "Oh look it's a novelty". Is Khora used more often for the Venari novelty, or just to cheese through objectives with Strangledome? If you had a gimmick that performs poorly in combat, resulting in Vauban being nothing more than a Bastille mule, then you've effectively solved nothing.

Also, Frost is called Frost but he doesn't melt under the sun in the Plains. Naming convention doesn't control the design of the frame, why does it matter?

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The main issue with Vauban is that he is a "video game engineer" without a turret.

Even in fantasy games like Torchlight, the engineer class has a turret (and a mobile one in that case)

If we want a mobile turret, cause his other powers are stationary, but don't want a MOA turret with a stupid AI, then DE, please give a shoulder-mounted turret, like the one from Destroyer class in Mass Effect 3 MP, with switchable firing modes

Edited by Tatann
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I like Vauban and still use him a fair bit...and not just cuz I bought him an awesome Tennogen skin.

 

I get the strong impression some folks will say any frame is bad, if it doesn't enable them to simply press one button and nuke a map, or spam abilities constantly.

Edited by FlusteredFerret
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17 minutes ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

Vauban is similar to nyx in some aspect: A 2013 warframe that exists in 2018


5 years ago, he is pretty good... but a lot has changed, and sadly his kit isn't exactly what our current "meta" is looking for.

At least, looking at Excal Umbra, Volt and Mag, there's still hope for a nice rework 🙂

 

(Cause yes, Mag is great)

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Vaubans best use was in trials and now that they're gone there's no far game content for him to excel in. Eidolons are immune to everything he has and his abilities slow down ESO too much. He needs a proper rework to modernise him with Warframe as it is today and for trials or their legacy to come back and give the hard cc frames a mode to shine in again.

Edited by (XB1)SirMilkfiend
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5 hours ago, thestraki said:

I do not think that vauban is a good character but at the same time i dont think that he is indeed useless,

he has only 2 abilities, from which 2 of those are "pretty weak" crowd controll (at least for this META), when things you want to CC can be easily killed or CCd better by other frames. He's slow, his base stats are terrible and his ability stats have also weak base stats that require some heavy speccing into to be effective. Obviously if you nvest 6 formas into him, you have all the best mods, then his CC monster but... Just.... Why bother...

 

I really gave him a chance but he's not good. 

Suggestion:

Buff his 1 so it has better stats, maybe let those orbs float near vauban with some augment. increased range should allow more more bounces between enemies, aka chain lightning, so there's synergy.

Rework his 2. It's worthless atm. 

Buff duration (or nerf energy consumption) on his 3. Maybe add some low damage to mobs that got caught into net. Range should also increase number of mobs that can be caught.

4th ability is overall fine. Just buff damage, or make it increase over time the longer mob is in the vortex. maybe add explosion on ability end and change cast type to teleport, rather than throw (for better precision). 

Edited by deothor
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9 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

It's the usual problem with the community. Anything that doesn't fulfill a lockdown a whole map role, instant healing/massive damage reduction role or wipe whole map with a few button role is considered "useless" because "I can just use X instead to cheese the game". Do remember, these are the people who will say Oberon and Harrow are useless because Trinity exists even though those 3 frames operate on very different roles that have an overlap on healing.

Vauban needs some tweaking with his abilities and his base stats. The calls for a complete overhaul is likely never going to result in any real satisfaction unless becomes a different flavor of the top meta.

No, you're going from 0 to 100. Vauban is terrible. Most people asking for a rework just want him to be brought in line with even the most average of warframes. No one said he needs to be another nuke frame.

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wow, I thought that this topic would be ignored but I was wrong, the ideas that you guys come up with is incredible, hopefully, when DE return from the break, they can read this topic and bring those ideas to the table, especially the -sentient- one, I really like that

14 hours ago, -Sentient- said:

Vauban rework is something that people has been asking for a long time

The last changes they did to him were memes and completly useless (Only good thing was the passive change)

 

Tesla : This thing Jesus christ,it needs to go,it does nothing at high levels,and if you charge it slowly with the cost of 40 energy it does the same thing as Bastille but worse

To make it usable make it 50% status without any strength build,a remove the 39 seconds durability and change it for number of charges so then the ball will dissapear when the máximum number of charges are done.

 

Minelayer: Mines sounds good on paper but play VERY Poor in-game due to recent warframes and their Press 4 to kill everything

Shred: Totally Useless without strength build,and I doubt you will sacrifice a Range or duration mod for strength

Bounce: Pretty much an insult,after the changes to parkour and the addition of bullet jump its totally useless

Concuss: The only useful one due to its radiation proc making Enemies figth each other,this one should stay but increase its AOE Effect.

Triplaser: Good/Bad - Bad..Why? because Vauban can do this and way better with its bastille or Vortex

The only one that should remain is Concuss

 

New Toys could be: Tool Layer

Shield Dome: Vauban will hold 2 and Deploy an 10 meter dome around him that will give damage reduction and inmunity to status effects,the dome can be destroyed if enemies shoot to the Small drone that is creating the dome (Similar to Nullifilers).

Sentry Turret : Vauban will deploy an automatic turret that will fire and inflict 300 Damage,throwing Teslas will add Electric damage,and Fully charged tesla gives 100% status chance on turret (Limit of turrets will be 3 and can be increased by Strength mods (Turret will have 300HP by default and can be increase with strength mods)

Trap Laser : Very Similar to the Death orbs from the void but smaller,Vauban will deploy a death orb that will shoot in 360 and rotate,enemies that contact will the laser will trip down and recieve Magnetic damage.

Concuss : Same as it is rigth now but increase its AOE effect.

 

Bastille: I think its great as it is,removing its enemy cap will make others abilities of his useless

 

Vortex:  Some people say its a worse versión of Nidus 2,I disagree,it Works very well with the augment or without the augment in defense with a good duration

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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39 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Utilizing his ult... Which makes enemies take twice the dmg. Plus his passive... 25% dmg bonus when enemies incapacitated... Basically vauban can wreck shop, and shut down a map. Hes far from bad. Just needs a bit more survivability.

I agree he is very weak in survivability and that strategy that you propose is very good, but the point is that other frames do this and sometimes even better, like nidus the point is that he needs new abilities that match with the changes that the game went through time, like bounce, the bounce was an ability to reach higher places since the parkour system was garbage back then and today the bounce is semi-useless, of course, you can use in transmission but you can use Bastille instead and will cost less since almost the time it was two panels that the enemies can use to capture it the point.

Edited by thestraki
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1 minute ago, thestraki said:

I agree he is very weak in survivability and that strategy that you propose is very good, but the point is that other frames do this and sometimes even better, like nidus the point is that he needs new abilities that match with the changes that the game went through time, like bounce, the bounce was an ability to reach higher places since the parkour system was S#&$ back then and today the bounce is semi-useless, of course, you can use in transmission but you can use Bastille instead and will cost less since almost the time it was two panels that the enemies can use to capture it the point.

Use his ult in conjunction with kohm, ignis, or catchmoon... Really amazing.

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