About Riven Mods

[Messinae]

Greetings Tennos.
 
 I don't really know how to start this, thought I'll start with a fast disclaimer : I just came to an idea with a friend after a discussion and came with the intention to suggest it. I'm not here to complain, I just want to give a point of view. Coming in here friendly.

So, at first I wanted to point out how I think Riven Mods could be possibly improved, starting with its "potential problem". Let me explain : 
Riven Mods are meta mods, depending on the weapon it procs on. Only few Riven are actually looked by players to boost their weapons depending on the Riven disposition of the weapon and its popularity. (assuming you're not farming a Riven mod for ALL the weapons in the game, some people are crazy you know). And in my eyes, it's quite a sad thing because Warframe literally is made for you so that you can enjoy the game, whichever way you play it. Whatever weapon you want to play with or actual warframes, the main goal is to make you happy about what you use.

This is where kind of a problem appears : Riven mods and the way you want to play don't really fit that well together. For example, one of the most popular Riven mod at the moment is for the Rubico sniper weapon, because it's a very good weapon for hunting Eidolons and accessing very powerful gears with it. Now, I know that, despite the fact the game is made for you to play anything you want, most of the time some weapon/warframe is better in such situation and some weapon/warframe in another situation, obviously. But when it comes to Riven, it's where it's the most contrasted to me.

I know that Riven mods are not actually aimed to make every weapons broken in the game, but what I'm trying to say here is that, is it very very frustrating to have a 20 riven bank (so far, I know it's not a lot but hey) and being unable to use them because... because they don't fit any of my weapons. It's literally pointless to me to use any of them because they don't fit anything, and I know for sure that absolutely no one will ever buy one of these if I try to resell. 

And that's where it leads us to the little idea : what about a ressource that could allow us to reroll a Riven, not for its stats, but for the actual weapon it's made for ? For example, let's say I have X ressource required to reroll it, it allows me to rolls the Riven mod for.. let's say Braton, to a new weapon like Staticor. A ressource farming like Kuva, maybe harder to farm, I don't know, but something that'll add options and possibilities to the garbage Riven I and we all got in bank. This would go the way the game is designed : always pushing the limits of farming and possibilities. 

Now, I don't want to be seen like someone complaining about the fact he's been a bit unlucky about his Rivens and just want a way to make business out of it. It's literally not what I want to lead this idea to. Also, maybe, why not making the Riven untradable after using this way of rerolling it ? And making it so that you don't have the choice of the weapon after you reroll it like the stats does? (The stats let you choose between before and after, maybe forbidding the choice of it when it comes to the weapon roll?) So at least it doesn't destroy the economy around the Riven market and actually allows us to make something out of it, instead of having them unusable forever in our hands. 

That's basically all I wanted to say about this. I'm excited to read your arguments and counter arguments about this ! 

  Take care, farm hard. 

[Olphalarepth]

Hard no, the game is unbalanced as it is already. We all know everyone would just roll for. Your idea basically translates as "If not all people can afford meta let's give meta to everyone". The gold standard for everything would be another dangerous powercreep and would essentially force another mandatory mod on builds.

[Messinae]

Greetings Tennos.
 
 I don't really know how to start this, thought I'll start with a fast disclaimer : I just came to an idea with a friend after a discussion and came with the intention to suggest it. I'm not here to complain, I just want to give a point of view. Coming in here friendly.

So, at first I wanted to point out how I think Riven Mods could be possibly improved, starting with its "potential problem". Let me explain : 
Riven Mods are meta mods, depending on the weapon it procs on. Only few Riven are actually looked by players to boost their weapons depending on the Riven disposition of the weapon and its popularity. (assuming you're not farming a Riven mod for ALL the weapons in the game, some people are crazy you know). And in my eyes, it's quite a sad thing because Warframe literally is made for you so that you can enjoy the game, whichever way you play it. Whatever weapon you want to play with or actual warframes, the main goal is to make you happy about what you use.

This is where kind of a problem appears : Riven mods and the way you want to play don't really fit that well together. For example, one of the most popular Riven mod at the moment is for the Rubico sniper weapon, because it's a very good weapon for hunting Eidolons and accessing very powerful gears with it. Now, I know that, despite the fact the game is made for you to play anything you want, most of the time some weapon/warframe is better in such situation and some weapon/warframe in another situation, obviously. But when it comes to Riven, it's where it's the most contrasted to me.

I know that Riven mods are not actually aimed to make every weapons broken in the game, but what I'm trying to say here is that, is it very very frustrating to have a 20 riven bank (so far, I know it's not a lot but hey) and being unable to use them because... because they don't fit any of my weapons. It's literally pointless to me to use any of them because they don't fit anything, and I know for sure that absolutely no one will ever buy one of these if I try to resell. 

And that's where it leads us to the little idea : what about a ressource that could allow us to reroll a Riven, not for its stats, but for the actual weapon it's made for ? For example, let's say I have X ressource required to reroll it, it allows me to rolls the Riven mod for.. let's say Braton, to a new weapon like Staticor. A ressource farming like Kuva, maybe harder to farm, I don't know, but something that'll add options and possibilities to the garbage Riven I and we all got in bank. This would go the way the game is designed : always pushing the limits of farming and possibilities. 

Now, I don't want to be seen like someone complaining about the fact he's been a bit unlucky about his Rivens and just want a way to make business out of it. It's literally not what I want to lead this idea to. Also, maybe, why not making the Riven untradable after using this way of rerolling it ? And making it so that you don't have the choice of the weapon after you reroll it like the stats does? (The stats let you choose between before and after, maybe forbidding the choice of it when it comes to the weapon roll?) So at least it doesn't destroy the economy around the Riven market and actually allows us to make something out of it, instead of having them unusable forever in our hands. 

That's basically all I wanted to say about this. I'm excited to read your arguments and counter arguments about this ! 

  Take care, farm hard. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Remove the megathread tag, you’re not DE.

[(PSN)teacup775]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Remove the megathread tag, you’re not DE.

Hate to say it, but DE aught to make that tag admin or moderator exclusive. The situation with that tag lame in the extreme.

 

1 hour ago, Olphalarepth said:

gold standard for everything would be another dangerous powercreep and would essentially force another mandatory mod on builds.

So instead we have the lucky or money bags that buy the power creep. What you are saying is an admission that rivens are simply poisonous junk. 

Poisonous because it breeds gambling like behavior. It encourages gouging and flipping rather than gameplay.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Hate to say it, but DE aught to make that tag admin or moderator exclusive. The situation with that tag lame in the extreme.

 

 

Do to the way this forums is programmed and set up, they can’t do that.

[trst]

Rivens might be considered meta to some people but it's a meta that solely accomplishes two tasks. Being time efficient with Eidolons and arbitrarily long endless runs.

Neither of these things are remotely necessary for any player to be able to do. Eidolon efficiency only matters if you're impatient or don't have the time to wait for night cycles and there are no tangible benefits to excessively long endless runs.

 

They do need changes but the changes they don't need is anything that makes them easier to get or roll desired stats. Warframe has no appropriate end-game content for non Riven based builds already and making Rivens easier would just raise the minimum bar for end-game stupidly higher than it already is.

Unless DE decides that Rivens will be a mandatory part of our progression and dedicates the time to making content appropriate for this change only then Rivens can be made easier to get.

[Beartornado]

19 minutes ago, trst said:

Unless DE decides that Rivens will be a mandatory part of our progression and dedicates the time to making content appropriate for this change only then Rivens can be made easier to get.

This here, Rivens are not necessary, just gravy on top of the OP train. There is no point in sweating the prices of meta rivens, just enjoy whatever weapon you like, and if it's a meta weapon then maybe try to catch a low price on an unrolled Riven for it if you really want one.

Otherwise just wait for the next round of balance/riven changes and soak in the glory of the complaint threads that come spilling forth from whoever encourages those ludicrous prices by purchasing them.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Beartornado

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

2 hours ago, Messinae said:

I know that Riven mods are not actually aimed to make every weapons broken in the game, but what I'm trying to say here is that, is it very very frustrating to have a 20 riven bank (so far, I know it's not a lot but hey) and being unable to use them because... because they don't fit any of my weapons.

I'm getting weapons I crafted and sold already as MR fodder and/or haven't built yet.

But the weapons I play with most? Hasn't dropped, or having veiled ones with insane conditions to open, like killing pilots in PoE via sliding BEFORE they hit the ground. I can bearly jump in the game over obstacles, but specifically got a Riven that requires agility my hand simply can't do.

There's grinds. There's practicing. Then there's requirements that just turns a Riven into Endo.

[ant99999]

Rivens meant to be (or at least had a potential to be) the simplest and cheapest way possible to smooth out weapons balance. The only thing DE needed to do is to adjust dispositions depending on weapon's strength and voila - the rest is done by players themselves finding optimal stats combinations for every riven.

But oh god how terribly it was executed. Balancing dispositions based on weapons popularity - a lazy solution on top of already bandaid~ish concept of rivens themselves. And then they just forgot about disposition changes for two years resulting in this abomination that riven market is. And I won't even start talking about pool limit.

To summarise: your ideas are cool I suppose, but what's more important, there shouldn't be such a thing as riven improvement ideas. Rivens are the most primitive mechanic possible, but for some unclear reason they have failed to achieve one goal they were created for. What should be done is the developers team responsible for rivens should think this through another couple of times and just reimplement them correctly.

[Olphalarepth]

2 hours ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Hate to say it, but DE aught to make that tag admin or moderator exclusive. The situation with that tag lame in the extreme.

 

So instead we have the lucky or money bags that buy the power creep. What you are saying is an admission that rivens are simply poisonous junk. 

Poisonous because it breeds gambling like behavior. It encourages gouging and flipping rather than gameplay.

Your point being? I've been saying that rivens were an horrendous steaming pile of junk since always. The game would have been far better off without them......

[(PSN)teacup775]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Do to the way this forums is programmed and set up, they can’t do that.

php based and they can’t find a plugin? or did they roll their own? 

1 hour ago, Olphalarepth said:

Your point being? I've been saying that rivens were an horrendous steaming pile of junk since always. The game would have been far better off without them......

call it voilent agreement.

Edited December 31, 2018 by (PS4)teacup775

[Aldain]

I can't understand the hype of rivens, I came back after the switch version launched and honestly, it just feels like somebody tied a carrot onto an ever distant RNG stick with the possible promise of power.

Even making it possible to reroll rivens to different weapons would not solve the problem of rivens being RNG + RNG x RNG + (grind³)/Kuva.

Really I can't understand rivens appeal because it just feels like a trap for time wasting with no assurance of any solid return. But maybe rivens just aren't content for me I guess.

[ultra_instinct_ssj]

isnt combinin rivens into a new one already a form of that?

[Kerberos-3]

1 hour ago, ultra_instinct_ssj said:

isnt combinin rivens into a new one already a form of that?

Yes, but it requires four of them plus an obscure piece of gear that you only get from Eidolon Hydrolyst.

[(XBOX)Kuljack]

8 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Yes, but it requires four of them plus an obscure piece of gear that you only get from Eidolon Hydrolyst.

Which are not difficult to obtain. It requires a little work but everything in Warframe has a little grind to it.

The current system works, rolls rivens. Sacrifice 4 junk for another chance at something good. Repeat.

Your opinion, OP, seems influenced by trade market and maybe forum discussions? Each is a place that paints the picture of meta, which unfortunately carries a label of uncool/unoriginal now, since every does it. There are; however, plenty of players that strive to test beyond meta and find their own niche.

There is a balance though that I respect in warframe, where most content can be played running any playstyle and efficiency is not worth a discussion. It gives the easy-breezy players a safe environment to run a map-nuke volt or a boulder-rolling atlas, and nobody really minds either way. Then we have content that narrows that scope down, not because it’s meta but because it’s what is efficient, and it’s meta because it’s efficient. 

There isn’t 1 top dog though for eidolon hunts. While rubico and lanka are the main go tos, I believe most go straight to them. excuse someone posted a youtube video with those tested with great results, but there are perfect good alternatives if you’re willing to broaden your view. Snipetron Vandal/Vulkar Wraith make great snipers for the fights,  Buzlok can even do really well for these if you get the right buffs. A radiation tigris prime with a 100% does reallllly good too if you run an arch wing and stay in close. 

The main problem is most players like me who feel things out for different experiences and don’t post results to youtube aren’t socializing effective strategies that would dilute the meta. 

Last point, that game can be enjoyed playing many different ways. Some players enjoy playing for efficieny, and just because it may not be fun to you doesn’t mean it isn’t fun for everyone. 

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

11 hours ago, Messinae said:

Greetings Tennos.
 
 I don't really know how to start this, thought I'll start with a fast disclaimer : I just came to an idea with a friend after a discussion and came with the intention to suggest it. I'm not here to complain, I just want to give a point of view. Coming in here friendly.

So, at first I wanted to point out how I think Riven Mods could be possibly improved, starting with its "potential problem". Let me explain : 
Riven Mods are meta mods, depending on the weapon it procs on. Only few Riven are actually looked by players to boost their weapons depending on the Riven disposition of the weapon and its popularity. (assuming you're not farming a Riven mod for ALL the weapons in the game, some people are crazy you know). And in my eyes, it's quite a sad thing because Warframe literally is made for you so that you can enjoy the game, whichever way you play it. Whatever weapon you want to play with or actual warframes, the main goal is to make you happy about what you use.

This is where kind of a problem appears : Riven mods and the way you want to play don't really fit that well together. For example, one of the most popular Riven mod at the moment is for the Rubico sniper weapon, because it's a very good weapon for hunting Eidolons and accessing very powerful gears with it. Now, I know that, despite the fact the game is made for you to play anything you want, most of the time some weapon/warframe is better in such situation and some weapon/warframe in another situation, obviously. But when it comes to Riven, it's where it's the most contrasted to me.

I know that Riven mods are not actually aimed to make every weapons broken in the game, but what I'm trying to say here is that, is it very very frustrating to have a 20 riven bank (so far, I know it's not a lot but hey) and being unable to use them because... because they don't fit any of my weapons. It's literally pointless to me to use any of them because they don't fit anything, and I know for sure that absolutely no one will ever buy one of these if I try to resell. 

And that's where it leads us to the little idea : what about a ressource that could allow us to reroll a Riven, not for its stats, but for the actual weapon it's made for ? For example, let's say I have X ressource required to reroll it, it allows me to rolls the Riven mod for.. let's say Braton, to a new weapon like Staticor. A ressource farming like Kuva, maybe harder to farm, I don't know, but something that'll add options and possibilities to the garbage Riven I and we all got in bank. This would go the way the game is designed : always pushing the limits of farming and possibilities. 

Now, I don't want to be seen like someone complaining about the fact he's been a bit unlucky about his Rivens and just want a way to make business out of it. It's literally not what I want to lead this idea to. Also, maybe, why not making the Riven untradable after using this way of rerolling it ? And making it so that you don't have the choice of the weapon after you reroll it like the stats does? (The stats let you choose between before and after, maybe forbidding the choice of it when it comes to the weapon roll?) So at least it doesn't destroy the economy around the Riven market and actually allows us to make something out of it, instead of having them unusable forever in our hands. 

That's basically all I wanted to say about this. I'm excited to read your arguments and counter arguments about this ! 

  Take care, farm hard. 

What you want exists. Riven transmuters. You get them fro the Hydrolyst.

You take four bad rivens and get a veiled one.

Edited December 31, 2018 by (PS4)Mono-Pop

[MPonder]

What I'd like was a chance to lock a roll, supposing you want to get a Cc/cd/Ms Riven for some weapons.

Then at 100 rolls, it gives you the opportunite to lock a roll, think like you have a cd roll, and you lock it, so it won't change even after you roll it. Then at 200 rolls, you can lock 2 rolls, so you keep rolling till you get cc or ms.

Then, at some points, you can get a riven with the stats you want.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Rivens.....must.....destroy.....rivens.....no....more.....rivens!

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

20 hours ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Hate to say it, but DE aught to make that tag admin or moderator exclusive. The situation with that tag lame in the extreme.

 

So instead we have the lucky or money bags that buy the power creep. What you are saying is an admission that rivens are simply poisonous junk. 

Poisonous because it breeds gambling like behavior. It encourages gouging and flipping rather than gameplay.

"Poisonous junk" is just like, your opinion man.

You dont have to use them, and they encourage gameplay because kuva exists... I don't see how that's gambling.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

2 hours ago, MPonder said:

What I'd like was a chance to lock a roll, supposing you want to get a Cc/cd/Ms Riven for some weapons.

Then at 100 rolls, it gives you the opportunite to lock a roll, think like you have a cd roll, and you lock it, so it won't change even after you roll it. Then at 200 rolls, you can lock 2 rolls, so you keep rolling till you get cc or ms.

Then, at some points, you can get a riven with the stats you want.

DE (I forget who specifically) recently did a q and a with tactical potato. The idea of "locking riven stars came up and it was a hard no. As it should be.

Top tier rivens are supposed to be the rare, exciting exception and not the norm.

 

[MPonder]

44 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

DE (I forget who specifically) recently did a q and a with tactical potato. The idea of "locking riven stars came up and it was a hard no. As it should be.

Top tier rivens are supposed to be the rare, exciting exception and not the norm.

 

You are telling me that something that affect some much the damage of a weapon is supposed to be this rare? I would be ok with that if it was just a little of more power.

Since the content is so easy, and ranks for anything doesn't really matter, at least for me. But if it was the contrary, rivens could be such a problem depending on the content. Either way, since I hard belieave Warframe will have any challenger, and stop being just this mindless grind, top tiers rivens will be just a luxury.

[(PSN)teacup775]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

You dont have to use them, and they encourage gameplay because kuva exists... I don't see how that's gambling.

i suggest you look at the trade cycle for them and the behavior it cultivates. i have my collection 99% from my own sortie drops. the rest exchanged for like kind. i dont much care for the god roll OCD going on.

pure rng on all stats means hours of farming for several rolls, flipping veiled into the hope of a god roll for 2-3 “hot” weapons to sell for insane prices, and everything else trash basically. it isn’t a progressive system. you can’t work for it but only get lucky, no skill or fun involved. in the mean time, grolls are hyped into the stratosphere, goading kids to drop major money or sweaty flip and gouge themselves for the plat.

casinos have more generous probabilities and a less venal and nasty SOP.

Edited December 31, 2018 by (PS4)teacup775

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

i suggest you look at the trade cycle for them and the behavior it cultivates. i have my collection 99% from my own sortie drops. the rest exchanged for like kind. i dont much care for the god roll OCD going on.

pure rng on all stats means hours of farming for several rolls, flipping veiled into the hope of a god roll for 2-3 “hot” weapons to sell for insane prices, and everything else trash basically. it isn’t a progressive system. you can’t work for it but only get lucky, no skill or fun involved. in the mean time, grolls are hyped into the stratosphere, goading kids to drop major money or sweaty flip and gouge themselves for the plat.

casinos have more generous probabilities and a less venal and nasty SOP.

Friendly reminder riven trading, much like, for example, kubrow imprint trading is completely optional and you dont have to have anything to do with it. If player a wants to buy or sell something involving player player b, why should you  player c, jump in like no this sucks it's bad get rid of it? Also, the casino metaphor doesnt fly with me because it's not like you're re rolling rivens for platinum. You could say "okay but its still rng and involves money so its gambling" but by that logic what about the rest of the game?

"Oh man I hope this relic created by rng drops this part through rng so I can get a prime set to sell in trade chat". Nobody complains about that for some reason.

As for high prices for high rolls, I dont see a problem there either. The best possible rolls for the best popular weapons are the rarest items in the game. I can farm a mesa prime set in what, a couple hours? I cant just pull another crit chance crit damage damage -zoom roll out of my butt though. Its supply and demand. And if you dont want to shell out money you can earn platinum for free if you're willing to grind out prime sets, decent rolls, whatever, in trade chat.

 

One more thing. Friendly reminder the money generated from rivens funds the development of the game. If you want to tell me rivens should be removed what should they replace that revenue with?

34 minutes ago, MPonder said:

You are telling me that something that affect some much the damage of a weapon is supposed to be this rare? I would be ok with that if it was just a little of more power.

Since the content is so easy, and ranks for anything doesn't really matter, at least for me. But if it was the contrary, rivens could be such a problem depending on the content. Either way, since I hard belieave Warframe will have any challenger, and stop being just this mindless grind, top tiers rivens will be just a luxury.

If you want I can dig up the link for the video. I hope I'm not misquoting here but what I believe his exact words were basically:

1) this idea comes up a lot at DE when somebody is like "I have an idea to make rivens better" and is shot down, hard, every time.

2) the rng we deal with is the only thing kind of keeping them in check and stopping everybody from getting S+ rivens for everything.

 

3) if not for two it would be very difficult to design the game around that.

 

[MPonder]

For me, that '"3)" also says that DE can't design challenge content because Riven exist.

If S+ rivens could be achievable and content also designed around that people had so much power, new players probably would suffer the most because the lack of power on content. But also the point that S+ should be gated with RNG on RNG and a little more of RNG, means also that difficult content can't be really included because people with S+ rivens would be so much more efficient.