Solo players level up too slow

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Let's not stoop to name calling.

Good thing Warframe isn't actually an MMO then. Last I checked it's a third person PvE co-op shooter.

Oh great...the old "Go play something else" comment.

Again, Warframe isn't an MMO!

1. Anyone younger than 40 years-old is a kid to me.

2. Well, you need to check better resources -- https://www.mmorpg.com/warframe -- it's a MMOTPS. DE isn't contesting the definition, either. Only MMOs with RPG elements are listed there for genre players.

3. No, each genre has a particular way it's designed for it's category of players. Do you want housing in CoD??? WRONG game for it!

4. Again, check your sources better.

[DiabolusUrsus]

28 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

And you are, son?

You seem to be struggling with understanding the relevant point here...

Neither of us is, so if your sense of authority is seriously that dependent on your antiquity I suggest you re-evaluate your circumstances a bit.

Quote

The definition of a MMO is many people playing TOGETHER.

False. The definition of an MMO is many players loaded into the same game server; group participation is typical but not at all obligatory.

For example, Elsword online is an MMO, yet it only loads 4 players at a time into mission instances like Warframe does. There are also no noticeable penalties to playing alone vs. in a group in terms of progression.

Quote

It's the together part that offers more rewards. More you participate with others, more your perks.

According to you, but this is not at all necessary.

Quote

Soloers getting the same rewards as groups, is NOT a MMO design.

So, your idea won't float with this genre. You're playing the wrong game, even.

Want solo play with equal rewards, play solo games for the universal rewards it offers. MMOs groups get more perks for making the game a MMO experience.

Can you do anything but rant?

Here are some other 'MMOs' that treat solo players/groups equally in terms of rewards:

Tom Clancy's The Division

Elite: Dangerous

Destiny 2

The Isle

Path of Exile

So that makes 6 games that eschew your dogmatic MMO model, and while I'm sure there are more out there I haven't played/researched them.

Why would solo players receiving equal XP rewards damage your game experience? Why is that actually a bad thing?

If Warframe needs to force players to group up, then it has failed to successfully design a compelling co-op experience.

That is something to rectify, not put on a pedestal.

Edited January 2, 2019 by DiabolusUrsus
Added POE

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

3 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Can you do anything but rant?

Here are some other 'MMOs' that treat solo players/groups equally in terms of rewards:

Tom Clancy's The Division

Elite: Dangerous

Destiny 2

The Isle

So that makes 5 games that eschew your dogmatic MMO model, and while I'm sure there are more out there I haven't played/researched them.

Why would solo players receiving equal XP rewards damage your game experience? Why is that actually a bad thing?

If Warframe needs to force players to group up, then it has failed to successfully design a compelling co-op experience.

That is something to rectify, not put on a pedestal.

Can YOU? Already upset that I called you a kid, because chances are you are (and how you're behaving here shows it even -- trying to play "I'm intelligent" game that kids fall into each time when confronted by wisdom [because they don't have the experience!]).

Tom Clancy's: The Division: Not listed on MMORPG.com (if it is a MMO and/or RPG. it will be listed there for genre fans who especially seek playing that genre. Publishers/studios would WANT to be listed to draw that genre to their game even) --

Elite: Dangerous: the rewards aren't necessary "equal" and the game is exploited by soloers/PvPers/and online PvErs (trade can be "influenced" by each faction, so no, the rewards AREN'T the same!).

Destiny 2? I don't play it, but I sure read enough of it's woes in trade chat in WoW from returning players! lol

The other games never heard or played them to tell.

 

[MirageKnight]

31 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Anyone younger than 40 years-old is a kid to me.

Thanks for confirming your demeaning attitude to myself and everyone else around. I'll be sure to keep that in mind if I ever have to deal with you again.

32 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Well, you need to check better resources -- https://www.mmorpg.com/warframe -- it's a MMOTPS. DE isn't contesting the definition, either. Only MMOs with RPG elements are listed there for genre players.

And this is a credible source...since when? Who died and made those people "experts" on the matter?

 

 

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Can YOU? Already upset that I called you a kid, because chances are you are (and how you're behaving here shows it even -- trying to play "I'm intelligent" game that kids fall into each time when confronted by wisdom [because they don't have the experience!]).

... I think your conduct here speaks for itself, so I'll leave it at that.

2 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Tom Clancy's: The Division: Not listed on MMORPG.com (if it is a MMO and/or RPG. it will be listed there for genre fans who especially seek playing that genre.

Because every third party website is perfectly up to date and accurate.

2 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Publishers/studios would WANT to be listed to draw that genre to their game even) --

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

It is, by definition, an MMO. Multiple players load into the game world on the same server, and can interact. It's even a better qualifier than Warframe, which uses peer-to-peer hosting for its MP environment outside of social hubs.

2 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Elite: Dangerous: the rewards aren't necessary "equal" and the game is exploited by soloers/PvPers/and online PvErs (trade can be "influenced" by each faction, so no, the rewards AREN'T the same!).

Yes... They are.

The exact quantities are defined by player progression and faction status (veteran players get bigger rewards), but are not at all influenced by group/solo status.

Game exploits also fall outside the scope of the game's design, seeing as how they are in fact exploits.

You're also ignoring that the game is set up such that it is exceedingly difficult to group up, and most missions don't even distinguish between solo and group play.

2 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Destiny 2? I don't play it, but I sure read enough of it's woes in trade chat in WoW from returning players! lol

Yeah, that clearly disproves the point I just made! /s

2 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

The other games never heard or played them to tell.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Thanks for confirming your demeaning attitude to myself and everyone else around. I'll be sure to keep that in mind if I ever have to deal with you again.

And this is a credible source...since when? Who died and made those people "experts" on the matter?

 

 

Comments like above are off-topic, as usual, but demeaning? The reaction says enough already. Even the "kiddo" address players can get in the game, has them bent out of shape!

I'm over 50 years-old. I see a guy on the street young enough to be a son or grandson, well, that's how they'll be addressed. You're not my peers.

The first video gamers are getting older, son.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

I'm over 50 years-old.

And here you are, arguing (poorly) on the internet.

[MirageKnight]

8 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

I'm over 50 years-old.

Folks, speaking as a 50 year old gamer...I'd like to emphasize that not all older gamers are like Kevyne.

This has been a public service announcement.

6 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

And here you are, arguing (poorly) on the internet.

Fricking GOLD!

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said:

And here you are, arguing (poorly) on the internet.

 

Quote

 

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

~ Mark Twain

 

Kids fall to it every time.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Just now, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

 

Kids fall to it every time.

Ladies and gentlemen, irony.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Ladies and gentlemen, irony.

 

Quote

 

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."

~ Mark Twain

 

 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Hey look! I can post random quotes too. But I can at least make mine relevant:

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. - Winston Churchill 
 

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

Can we please get back on topic about the solo affinity gain?  Although this back and forth has been highly entertaining.

Again no one is asking for it to be just handed out on a silver platter.  We want t work for it, but not just slave away at it and be behind all the time.  I mean there are some games I know that have things that force you to have at least three people in the team to complete them.  I mean raids forced you to have 8 people and with them bringing them back i hope they rework them so that they are aren't as toxic as they were before and as toxic as eidolon hunting has gotten.

[AugmentedJustice]

On 2019-01-01 at 11:05 PM, WhiteMarker said:

No need to get angry. And no reason to use irony in order to insult me. Just chill. It's 2019.

Sure, you can't use magic to move to another place. Just use transportation.
Or maybe don't demand that DE basically changes the game from multiplayer to solo player, just because your government isn't doing enough for better connection across your country.
The real problem right here isn't the game. It's your government. This may sound harsh. Truth is harsh.

Eh...hardly angry at all. I was more puzzled than anything else, by your nothing response prior. But YUP. You'd be right, sure is my government's fault. Our infrastructure sucks and is very behind. But it doesn't mean DE can't be doing more to help people who can't reliably play with others, by implementing simple solo game tweaks, like say....i don't know, affinity parity etc, and numerous other suggestions by people in this thread. Also please, do quote me on where I demanded DE should basically change the game from multiplayer to solo player. 

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-01-03 at 6:06 AM, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

Again no one is asking for it to be just handed out on a silver platter.  We want t work for it, but not just slave away at it and be behind all the time.  I mean there are some games I know that have things that force you to have at least three people in the team to complete them.  I mean raids forced you to have 8 people and with them bringing them back i hope they rework them so that they are aren't as toxic as they were before and as toxic as eidolon hunting has gotten.

Solo affinity gain is a problem DE brought onto themselves and have ignored because people will defend bad design decisions as long as they can be used to attack people outside their tribe. It's the same old "Why solo in an MMO?" non-question that I'm personally getting tired after having to answer over and over again for 15 years now... So let's move onto practical concerns.

I'd argue that the problem with solo Affinity gain is predominantly distribution. DE have decided to go a system which gives you item progression for specifically using that item and - inversely - NOT giving you progression for not using it. As Dungeon Siege and Revenant before it showed us, that kind of system only works for damage-dealing tools, where support/control tools will fall behind drastically. In Warframes's case, this hits Sentinels the hardest, as the damage they do goes to their gun and they don't really have a lot else to generate Affinity from. Additionally, this heavily limits affinity gain when bringing multiple items into a mission to level up simultaneously, as only a single one can gain affinity at a time.

This design might have worked in a single-player game, but not so much in "an MMO," where some form of experience-sharing is necessary to avoid issues of kill-stealing within the same team. Because team-shared Affinity is earned passively, it can't be assigned to any one specific item and so has to be evenly split among all items. That generally produces a more even split, earns far better Affinity for items which might be otherwise difficult to progress and progresses several items at once. Tenno Affinity works the way it does by necessity, but the result is that it's more profitable to have people earn Affinity for you than to earn it yourself. All of this is in addition to standard MMO bonuses gained from more enemies on the map and a higher kill speed for the team.

I do agree that solo affinity gain can stand to be looked at, but I don't see any good ways to solve the issue. Boosting Affinity gain in inverse proportion to squad size is AN option, but not a very good one as it does create the sense of "missing out' if you team up even when the increased kill speed and enemy density makes up for it. I think currently, the only practical option would be to allow players to override Planetary Node difficulty and face more enemies (artificially scaled to a larger team) or higher-level enemies (artificially scaled to a user-defined minimum). Or both. That's what ended up solving a similar issue faced by City of Heroes, where I personally ended up scaling enemies to a two-player squad size both for a better play experience (so AoEs matter) and for the slightly improved XP gain.

The issue of solo Affinity gain is not ideological. It's almost entirely a practical concern inherent in how unrelated core systems are designed.

[Cortanis]

On 2018-12-31 at 7:41 AM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Spy missions or relying on stealth multipliers are pretty much the only realistic ways of quickly leveling up your stuff in solo. Why would you spend money on boosters when you could spend the same money on a better internet connection tho?

This^

Single weapon equipped that can one off or otherwise perform a finisher/head shot. Sat.- Exterm. mission. Should only take about 2-3 missions IF you're properly chaining your stealth mult properly. Primarily use for weapons. Bring a stealth frame like Loki or Ivara and make sure your weapons are silenced. In an hour of play with some skill, you should be able to max out a given weapon at least a couple of times.

Frames I would honestly suggest getting good at spy for. If not spy, high level MD can prove pretty decent for solo as well.

[Mest_Gryder]

get a decent gear and do elite onslaught. You can EASILY level your gear, also solo.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

honestly i have my squad joinup settings to join any squads no ping,limits , so dont see why youd have to go with solo mode when players like me willingly join pub

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

10 hours ago, Mest_Gryder said:

get a decent gear and do elite onslaught. You can EASILY level your gear, also solo.

And how exactly are you gonna level a fodder secondary while killing with your primary or melee when affinity is awarded to weapon you used. Affinity in solo is only gained through use of said weapon also elite requires rank 30 frame so please try again.

9 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

honestly i have my squad joinup settings to join any squads no ping,limits , so dont see why youd have to go with solo mode when players like me willingly join pub

Again some people can't even do that. When I use up my priority data limits and catch that throttle that gives me near dial up speeds I can barely log into the game to play solo. Joining another squad is out of the question as the slowed speed causes plenty of connection failures.

14 hours ago, Cortanis said:

This^

Single weapon equipped that can one off or otherwise perform a finisher/head shot. Sat.- Exterm. mission. Should only take about 2-3 missions IF you're properly chaining your stealth mult properly. Primarily use for weapons. Bring a stealth frame like Loki or Ivara and make sure your weapons are silenced. In an hour of play with some skill, you should be able to max out a given weapon at least a couple of times.

Frames I would honestly suggest getting good at spy for. If not spy, high level MD can prove pretty decent for solo as well.

If you read my first post you would see what issues have plagued the stealth kill strategy as any type of multishot cancels the multiplier, increased enemy awareness makes moving through areas without losing multiplier harder, and using either ivara, banshee, equinox, or Rhino with max range is the only way to level up crap weapons with any reasonable progress. 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

Again some people can't even do that. When I use up my priority data limits and catch that throttle that gives me near dial up speeds I can barely log into the game to play solo. Joining another squad is out of the question as the slowed speed causes plenty of connection failures.

 

i know alaska has some data limitations but even then i played with some from there with only a few hiccups.

id say to question your provider, as if your in usa there is a legal minimum you are to be provided by a internet provider so you may have to investigate that 

[Mest_Gryder]

besides, how about a single player game for solo players?
Not this one, but another? No extra sausage.

[Cortanis]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

If you read my first post you would see what issues have plagued the stealth kill strategy as any type of multishot cancels the multiplier, increased enemy awareness makes moving through areas without losing multiplier harder, and using either ivara, banshee, equinox, or Rhino with max range is the only way to level up crap weapons with any reasonable progress. 

Oh I did read. Difference is that I'm also MR26 and have been through nearly all of them. I can distinctly say that they can be done just fine. Yeah, doing so with out a frame that can make the job trivial like Ivara is a nightmare. That is however the point. This method applies even to the terrible weapons and sleeping the units before you kill them gives you a few seconds of leeway even if you need to take multiple shots while still counting for the stealth multiplier. Literally all melee weapons can be used just fine here for the stealth kills for finishers as well. So that really just leaves primaries and secondaries. I've still not had issues with this for even shotguns and have in fact used it to max out the Exergis so I can use a riven with it.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Try doing Adaro with Ivara, this should solve your problem and usually ranks faster than in Hydron.

[CortiWins]

The fortuna bounties for example are scaled better to solo and small groups, so DE seems to know that not everyone plays as a full group all the time. I wouldn't bet on big changes to general systems like affinity distribution though.

Too bad that your internet isnt that great. 😞

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

8 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

i know alaska has some data limitations but even then i played with some from there with only a few hiccups.

id say to question your provider, as if your in usa there is a legal minimum you are to be provided by a internet provider so you may have to investigate that 

Oh it's not even worth trying to interrogate my provider as their support desk just gives me a "one time" reset of extra gig to get my internet back on priority data so that its not so slow and hopefully by time for my month to roll over.  Satellite internet is the worst and sadly its the best I've got at the moment.

7 hours ago, Cortanis said:

Oh I did read. Difference is that I'm also MR26 and have been through nearly all of them. I can distinctly say that they can be done just fine. Yeah, doing so with out a frame that can make the job trivial like Ivara is a nightmare. That is however the point. This method applies even to the terrible weapons and sleeping the units before you kill them gives you a few seconds of leeway even if you need to take multiple shots while still counting for the stealth multiplier. Literally all melee weapons can be used just fine here for the stealth kills for finishers as well. So that really just leaves primaries and secondaries. I've still not had issues with this for even shotguns and have in fact used it to max out the Exergis so I can use a riven with it.

Melee weapons have never been a problem outside of them deciding that broad sweeping weapons, like polearms, now make noise when hitting the wall/floor/environment.  Nothing Banshee and Loki can't fix, but again we are looking at having frames that have to be literally min-maxed to achieve those results which would mean that this whole argument would be moot if it were that easy.  Rhino is about the only one who could be reliably gotten for a newbie, Banshee is next being in the dojo(unless you ain't got no gold on xbox then no dojo for you), Equinox is Next requiring up to Uranus, The Ivara and Loki Locked at Neptune. That's a long way to go solo and by that time you will be waaaaay behind someone who started with the ability to play with others.  And that's only stating the frames and not the mods required to make those builds efficient. 

I got lucky with my internet provider and have an unmetered zone so on PS4 I can pub away to get things done quickly. Having just received an Xbox One this past Christmas and getting hit with that no gold no Multiplayer just makes me hate the console even more because now I'm getting double charged.  So on xbox I'm solo for life.

So again those nerfs to stealth farming hurt a lot especially the multishot kills breaking stealth.  The low enemy count in survivals hurting affinity gained through combat.  Also the inability to level other weapons up passively without using them in solo like players in groups is also hurtful.  I mean if you say we have to use our gun to level it well make it hold true for the rest of the game.(DE DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!SERIOUSLY!!!!!)  If you haven't played your way from MR 0 TO MR 9 SOLO you have no idea how tedious that is and trying to talk down on solo players like they chose to play that way when in MOST cases they haven't is really disingenuous.

I feel those players who are stuck in solo only and I agree that the system needs an overhaul for solo play.  It needs to have better perks than "Well at least X Player can't mukk this up."