Dps frame nerfs

[Riger82]

When they nerf frames who have the sole purpose of aoe dps, is there any point in them anymore? Like Ember or Banshee? Lower level content doesn't matter, but without real defensive abilities and low armor, anything at the 80+ levels pretty much one shot them. That seems like it makes them pretty useless. I rarely ever even see them anymore, along with equinox and mirage (she hasn't been nerfed, I don't think. Her survivability just sucks without deep shadows), in any higher level content.

[_Dan]

At this point it's just a mess, lets be honest, endgame is mostly down to what Rivens you have these days, my rubico /pyrana one shots everything thanks to my rivens, no matter the frame.

 

just play the game shoot the things and farm the stuff. frames get nerfed when enough people whine about it. doesn't really matter. there's always gonna be a huge imbalance, i think the way ults are used needs to be drastically changed in terms of cooldown and how you can use them for there ever to be the kind of balance you speak of. they should be more 'special' 

[RX-3DR]

Not quite. They still retain most of their functionality in dealing damage to large groups. The main difference is that you no longer have the ability to wipe all the enemies instantly which has been diminishing the purpose of everything else. The reason why we don't see Ember and Banshee everywhere anymore is because it got replaced with Mesa and Saryn. On paper, if you can achieve an ideal balance of damage and ease of use between those two and the current meta of Mesa and Saryn, you would see Ember and Banshee being used more often while bringing back more value in locking down enemies with frames like Volt and Frost. They fell off the easy to play meta because they no longer bypass large portions of gameplay.

One common problem is people coming up with the expectation that they should be able to wipe level 80+ enemies in solo by building nothing but Ability stats. If this expectation wasn't set in stone with people constantly chasing the easiest to use meta, we would have just acknowledged that you can't just steamroll Sorties.

Edited January 15, 2019 by RX-3DR

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

The purpose is to remove the “press 4 to win” mentality. Mesa still requires input from the play to decimate everything. All Banshee and Ember has to do was max energy, cast 4, and do nothing else.

[Talinthis]

you havent seen equinox!? you on a different server or what. ember is basically the same. in fact she is even better for low level enemy annihilation now. mine has 22.5 meter range with 1.5 energy/s with a tiny bit stronger WoF at 100%. only reason i tap it on and off is for the ridiculous range now. its so much faster on low level missions! haha.

when first tapped on, 45 meter range, 0.75 energy/s. dont know damage off the top of my head.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Talinthis

[-Sentient-]

Saryn would like to have a corrosive word with you.

[trst]

If you're dying that easily to enemies only in the 80's then you're likely using the wrong builds.

Most frames like that do have defensive options in the form of CC effects and low armor doesn't mean much if you're using builds with Flow+QT or Adaptation.

 

(imo) The biggest difference between say Banshee and Ember to Mesa and Saryn is how much you need to actually pay attention to the mission and how you build them. But ultimately they all can be effective.

Edited January 15, 2019 by trst

[kgabor]

I would be fine with changing Sound Quake to a more useful and synergising exalted sniper.

Imo. DE should just delete all press to win abilities if they don't want to rework them.

Saryn just needs all damage removed from Spores and Miasma and would be still a great debuffer frame.

[Guest]

Banshee still goes good with guns and explosives but Sound Quake is quite redundant nowadays. Her killing power isn't low by any means.

Ember is the sad case.

[Genesix6]

1 hour ago, _Dan said:

At this point it's just a mess, lets be honest, endgame is mostly down to what Rivens you have these days, my rubico /pyrana one shots everything thanks to my rivens, no matter the frame.

I will never accept rivens as endgame, as they are nothing but lootboxes. 

[KIREEK]

Having powerfull abilities, nerfs and/or buffs mean nothing in the end, if the player is efficient all of that won't change much, the issue is how widely available the efficiency is, if it's to much then a change/nerf must happen, DE doesn't like when the average group starts entering into the efficient territory all thanks to abilities, that makes it to easy.

If you get there via gameplay, they won't bat an eye, afterall you earned it.

It's true i can't get the same levels of efficiency on interceptions thanks to the banshee nerf, but i still do plenty of kills, i can't reach the maximum possible, but i get close.

Complaining also contributes to the nerfs, however i have been here for years now and i remain efficient despite the complains of "but that warframe won't let us get kills"

[Veridian]

When a frame has one strong aspect and you gimp it, the frame can't stay competitive to other frames, that's how you get Ember, at least Banshee has that damage debuff, which is apparently useful on level 500+ enemies.

I've always thought that if the damage of AoE frames is nerfed, then so should other frames' main aspects take a hit, to enforce balance between the roster.

Now imagine a Rhino whose Iron Skin absorbs 50% of the damage or Ash/Loki with 4-7 sec invisibility with max duration, Limbo not being able to hold more than 10 targets in cataclysm. It would be the same for people who enjoy playing those frames.

[DreisterDino]

Considering Banshee:

She is finally played in a way that is fun and useful for the whole squad - as a MASSIVE dmg-buffer that makes pretty much every weapon viable^^

Soundquake feels a bit out of place now though...you could use it every now and then to CC everything in a huge radius,

but i would prefer an ability that synergizes with her 2 or 3 more and that focuses on mobility, because you have to be on the move with banshee, not sitting in on place.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (XB1)GearsMatrix301:

The purpose is to remove the “press 4 to win” mentality. Mesa still requires input from the play to decimate everything. All Banshee and Ember has to do was max energy, cast 4, and do nothing else.

But the player input of Mesa 4 is a joke. Just jump somewhere, activate your 4 and move your cursor as fast as possible around the screen and hope you kill something.

This is press 4 to win just as it was with Banshee/Ember, and you could write

"All Mesa has to do is max ability strength (and some forma in the regulators, not needed though), cast 4, and do nothing else"

[(NSW)Scintal]

3 hours ago, _Dan said:

At this point it's just a mess, lets be honest, endgame is mostly down to what Rivens you have these days, my rubico /pyrana one shots everything thanks to my rivens, no matter the frame.

 

just play the game shoot the things and farm the stuff. frames get nerfed when enough people whine about it. doesn't really matter. there's always gonna be a huge imbalance, i think the way ults are used needs to be drastically changed in terms of cooldown and how you can use them for there ever to be the kind of balance you speak of. they should be more 'special' 

You are right, they shold nerf Rivens.  

[stormy505]

2 hours ago, trst said:

If you're dying that easily to enemies only in the 80's then you're likely using the wrong builds.

Most frames like that do have defensive options in the form of CC effects and low armor doesn't mean much if you're using builds with Flow+QT or Adaptation.

 

(imo) The biggest difference between say Banshee and Ember to Mesa and Saryn is how much you need to actually pay attention to the mission and how you build them. But ultimately they all can be effective.

1. Qt+flow is effected by armor.

2. Adaption only works if you get hit, and anything past lvl 80-100 ish will just one shot them, making the mod pretty useless.

[kgabor]

O wait...after rereading op, i missed that part, you think Banshee's sole purpose is being an AoE spammer?

Another reason to get rid of that stupid ability, it adds literally nothing to Banshee's kit and incentivizes bad habits.

[Peter]

Everything can shot lvl 80 enemies, is just mob with poor AI programming, they literalli stand in your aim and wait to die.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Peter