These last few days of Nightwave threads are why DE doesn't take the forums seriously.

[Xaxma]

>New system literally leagues above old system (Lol 500 credits and 12 Plastids)

>get way more nitain than you could ever need

>free weapon and warframe slots; previously a paid feature

>free potatoes and forma bundles

>free cosmetics

>people still complain because they see the rewards being time-gated, despite literally every other facet of warframe being time-gated such as foundry building, day and night cycles, special alerts, mastery, challenges, etc.

These past few days have been a rollercoaster ride of irony and blatant disregard for the system improvements. Yes, some criticisms are valid such as the odd challenge (5 ayatans wat), and it's far from perfect, but it's a far cry from what sort of absurd rhetoric I'm hearing from these choosing beggers.

[Kontrollo]

Sorry man, but there's no point in getting worked up about it.

 

This thread is a metacomplaint and as such will just get locked or removed.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

9 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Sorry man, but there's no point in getting worked up about it.

 

This thread is a metacomplaint and as such will just get locked or removed.

Mmmm no, these points are all totally valid.
You can get more of the same things, a bunch of new things, and you can get them whenever you have time for a totally reasonable amount of effort.

[DatDarkOne]

I agree with Xax.  This is something that needs to be said.  I myself have seen quite a few complaint topics on Nightwave that just don't make sense.  Such as complaints about the new system punishing players with jobs, when it's the exact opposite.  I should know as I have a full time job and managed to finish all but 3 of the challenges at a leisurely pace over the last few days.   

[Kontrollo]

2 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Mmmm no, these points are all totally valid.
You can get more of the same things, a bunch of new things, and you can get them whenever you have time for a totally reasonable amount of effort.

Note that I did neither agree nor disagree with the individual points. The OP is written in a manner that takes issue with other people's threads.

I'd suggest removing those offending parts of the OP and editing the title, that's it.

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

Thing is a lot of people belive keeping Alerts as is while also having NW is a good thing.

Simply to dismiss people because it doesn't jive with your opinion is a disservice to everyone.

[DatDarkOne]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

Simply to dismiss people because it doesn't jive with your opinion is a disservice to everyone.

no one is dismissing them because they have a difference of opinion.  It's the half truths being said as if they were facts as a way to prove their point.  Honest feedback is and should be welcome.  Not disingenuous information said out of smite just to avoid change.  

Edited March 3, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Xaxma]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

Thing is a lot of people belive keeping Alerts as is while also having NW is a good thing.

Simply to dismiss people because it doesn't jive with your opinion is a disservice to everyone.

The old system is bad because it clutters the UI and only served to confuse people because you never know what to expect. 

With NW, you know what rewards you're going to get and how to get it and how far away you are from doing so. 

Prove me wrong. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Xaxma

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

 

4 minutes ago, Xaxma said:

The old system is bad because it clutters the UI and only served to confuse people because you never know what to expect. 

With NW, you know what rewards you're going to get and how to get it and how far away you are from doing so. 

Prove me wrong. 

Cluttered UI and confused people?

Thats funny, the only complaints I have ever heard of was missing the good stuff.

The old system is flawed there is no denying that, however it was a new player's best friend.

NW also is flawed for new players who comes into the game late and not have time to reach tier three then they are going to miss the chance of any resources that are key for several WFs and weapons/equipment and will have to wait for the next season.

should they just give them tier 3 prizes and large amounts of wolf credits to buy stuff?

 Or should the new players who sign up late and need those resources be told 'sux to be you' which many might actually feel that way and never come back.

[beol]

I thought they didn't take the forums seriously to make people follow them on social media. 

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

NW also is flawed for new players who comes into the game late and not have time to reach tier three then they are going to miss the chance of any resources that are key for several WFs and weapons/equipment and will have to wait for the next season.

You are glossing over one important thing.  With the old system, newer players still couldn't access every alert until they unlocked that node.  So they were gated by progression.  Only time will tell if the newer system will still have progression gates as well all the time.  

2 hours ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

Or should the new players who sign up late and need those resources be told 'sux to be you' which many might actually feel that way and never come back.

Refer back to my above statement about locked nodes.  

3 hours ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

Thats funny, the only complaints I have ever heard of was missing the good stuff.

Which is a complaint the new system is resolving.  No more missed loot from alert because of timing.  

I'm not trying to be an arse for saying these things.  I'm just adding additional details that seem to have been forgotten.  😄  

[Shalath]

My take on most of the complaints are that they dislike the fact that rewards are no longer instant. Grab alert, get reward. I suspect a lot of complainers are going to come to see the benefit of the new system in a week or two when they have got a few rewards and see that even though it isn't instant the rewards are better and more consistent.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Okay, you like the new system. Cool. 

However, a lot of people don't like the new system. They are doing nothing but giving their feedback here on the feedback forums. If you disagree with them, feel free to comment on their threads instead of just complaining here. None of them are going to look at this post and think to themselves, "damn I've been told. Guess I'll delete my threads."

Edited March 3, 2019 by (XB1)Erudite God

[TheSkunkyMonk]

8 hours ago, Xaxma said:

>New system literally leagues above old system (Lol 500 credits and 12 Plastids)

>get way more nitain than you could ever need

>free weapon and warframe slots; previously a paid feature

>free potatoes and forma bundles

>free cosmetics

>people still complain because they see the rewards being time-gated, despite literally every other facet of warframe being time-gated such as foundry building, day and night cycles, special alerts, mastery, challenges, etc.

These past few days have been a rollercoaster ride of irony and blatant disregard for the system improvements. Yes, some criticisms are valid such as the odd challenge (5 ayatans wat), and it's far from perfect, but it's a far cry from what sort of absurd rhetoric I'm hearing from these choosing beggers.

1. yup some of the alerts where pretty poor specially for veterans easy to avoid them though

2. Nope not even closes and it also means you cant get the other rewards if you buy the Nitain, I am currently experiencing this my self and my build queue has ground to a halt, Previously I could easily get 2/4 a day for 10mins of my time, plus all the mods and cosmetics if I wanted them.

3. I like the tier rewards, doesn't mean this is a replacement for the alerts though

4. Not if you need nitain, only 300creds aviable in the rewards and they get further and further apart.

5. same as all your free claims, I could of got them before and it still requires my time.

6. Not really what the majority are complaining about though I would say it would be nicer if we only moved onto the next season once the first was complete letting everyone pick the bits they want todo and progress at their own pace instead of all your hardwork being for nothing if you don't get the umbra/armor in time and can't play as much as you' like.

7. You don't like the sculpture challenge, I didn't like the scans but didn't moan.

 

All in all if alerts where still their in the previous form I would of enjoyed this update and had me a little statue, instead im now finding it more of a serious grind with nothing to break my time up between relics and bounties. I don't even have my MR grind atm since im all out of Nitain and dont even suggest bounties for it, I've done plenty and not got a single one from them.

But hey when youve already got plenty of what they have taken away, why care if you make the noobs work 10 times harder to get what they could previously.

Nightwave is not a replacement for alerts they should both be part of the game.

[TheSkunkyMonk]

7 hours ago, Xaxma said:

The old system is bad because it clutters the UI and only served to confuse people because you never know what to expect. 

With NW, you know what rewards you're going to get and how to get it and how far away you are from doing so. 

Prove me wrong. 

how about you prove yourself write, clutter lol the button is still their and it still has stuff init so that is nonsense from the get go, confusing? lol as someone who signed up recently I can say the alerts where far from confusing and actually lead alot of my gameplay and broke up my long relic opening sessions telling you exactly what you would get as a mission reward.

there you go.

[Steel_Rook]

Well, let's examine this point-for-point, then.

11 hours ago, Xaxma said:

New system literally leagues above old system (Lol 500 credits and 12 Plastids)

500 Credits on a low-level mission. A 30-40 mission would typically offer 12-13K credits and rare resources like Tellerium, Neurodes and even a not-insignificant amount of Void Traces. While all of those are "farmable" (as was Nitain), having a system for earning them while playing the game and NOT farming was a valuable feature which has been severely hobbled with the removal of Alerts.

11 hours ago, Xaxma said:

get way more nitain than you could ever need

11 hours ago, Xaxma said:

free potatoes and forma bundles

You could get way more Nitain than you could ever need via Alerts already. I have way more Nitain than I actually need right now. Citing the new system as offering Nitain, Forma, Catalysts and Reactors is a bit disingenuous considering the old system offered those, too. I'll grant you that the deterministic means of obtaining them is absolutely welcome, but the amount of grind required to do so is substantially disproportionate to the amount of convenience the system offers. After all, you can't have all the Nitain you're ever going to need AND Catalysts AND Reactors AND Forma without grinding for literal months, and you could do that in the old system. Inconveniently and at odd hours, but you could.

11 hours ago, Xaxma said:

free weapon and warframe slots; previously a paid feature

Assuming those stick around and aren't phased out in the next "episode" in a couple of months, fair enough. Nobody's claiming that Nightwave is all bad, and it does offer a few good features. Even if the majority of the "free" RMT items are gated behind disproportionate grind, having a free option to earn them is still a positive change

11 hours ago, Xaxma said:

free cosmetics

That is not a change. Free cosmetics were in the old system, and I'd argue more easily attainable, as well. RNG-gated, to be sure, but you could still amass a substantial amount of them pretty quickly.

11 hours ago, Xaxma said:

people still complain because they see the rewards being time-gated, despite literally every other facet of warframe being time-gated such as foundry building, day and night cycles, special alerts, mastery, challenges, etc.

Time-gating isn't the issue. The sheer amount of grind necessary for even simple things is. And mind you, citing deliberately anti-consumer features such as Earth's day/night cycle, Mastery Rank lockout, etc. doesn't endear me to the system any. Warframe is VERY agressive in trying to force itself into my daily routine, and all the lockouts and timers are aimed at just that. They're not there to enhance your experience or mine, they're habit-forming features designed to compel us to log in even when we don't feel like it, for reasons of "FOMO," essentially.

Nightwave is a system which requires substantial daily grind over a period of 10 weeks, or else you miss out on unique rewards which may actually never come back into rotation. For a new player or someone with a diminished playtime, that's a real roadblock. And right now, I'm speaking as someone with a diminished playtime for the simple fact that Alerts were about the only content I used to run, and they're gone now. Nightwave might have offered a different way to earn some of the rewards, but it came with the unnecessary of an actual gameplay system.

I've already gone over All the things Nightwave replaced in another thread, but suffice it to say that a fair amount of gameplay was lost in the switchover. Trying to dismiss criticism by slagging people as "beggers" is both unproductive and unlikely to change hearts and minds. If DE ignore their own official forums, then that's only to their own detriment. While you might disagree with specific criticism, Nightwave has arrived to an overall negative response and a lot of us are asking why Alerts needed to be removed for an only tangentially related system to be introduced in their place, and why both systems could not have been retained together.

[Xzorn]

Technically all but the slots were already free but yea this is the typical trade-off going from RNG to a Token system.

I guess most player's didn't understand neither is objectively better than the other. They both have Pros and Cons.

I do wish there was more to do though. Wiping the board in under 24 hours is a bit too casual for my tastes.

From my perspective I've gone from checking Alerts / Invasions and not doing them to not checking Alerts / Invasions and not doing them. That weekly refresh I'll do stuff for a day and then a week of nothing again. Needs a bit more. I think Path of Exile's Seasonal Challenges is a good model to work from. Maybe a little less on the insane stuff though. I mean, has anyone else actually gotten a full Totem from Seasons? Maybe not "that" hardcore but ya know. Little more than this.

[Tails_lol]

 i think the alert system should be back but it should give nightwave standing or tokens .

it will be the best of both worlds.

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

1 hour ago, Tails_lol said:

 i think the alert system should be back but it should give nightwave standing or tokens .

it will be the best of both worlds.

I think Alerts should stick to giving resources like NE while leaving them still in NW as you can get 5 if you been here from the start.

[Xylia]

15 hours ago, Xaxma said:

>people still complain because they see the rewards being time-gated, despite literally every other facet of warframe being time-gated such as foundry building, day and night cycles, special alerts, mastery, challenges, etc.

Hint: It's not the time-gating some of us don't like.

It's the RIMITED TIME ONRY!!!! crap that some of us hate.

Time-Gating is fine. I have no issues with the Daily, or Weekly nature of the Acts. I'd have to say I don't even mind the rotational nature of the Wolf Cred rewards, where the list changes every week (as long as stuff like Nitains are always available), as long as said stuff will eventually come back around again and none of it is LostForever.

I don't like the "YOU MUST GET 30K PER WEEK OR YOU WILL MISS OUT ON EXCLUSIVE CONTENT THAT WILL NEVER BE AVAILABLE EVER AGAIN!!!!!" stuff.

 

EDIT: Also, the idea that your progress will get reset when the next season comes out doesn't instill me with a huge amount of motivation to go out and do Nightwave objectives. So even if I did make it to Rank 20, 25, or heck even 30... then the 10 weeks ends, and I start off from zero next season again. That's why I keep saying they shoulda just made it like Cephalon Simaris where you get standing points, you use standing points to get what you are personally interested in. No Ranks, No Seasons, etc. Would have made a lot more sense.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Xylia

[Tails_lol]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

I think Alerts should stick to giving resources like NE while leaving them still in NW as you can get 5 if you been here from the start.

i think resources pack can be a nightwave reward as well

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

20 hours ago, Xaxma said:

These past few days have been a rollercoaster ride of irony and blatant disregard for the system improvements. Yes, some criticisms are valid such as the odd challenge (5 ayatans wat), and it's far from perfect, but it's a far cry from what sort of absurd rhetoric I'm hearing from these choosing beggers.

Nightwave is definitely a better idea than Alerts. I think that's what you're picking up on. But it's the execution where this really falls short. The economy of Nightwave is inferior by a country mile.

In the old Alerts, the Economy was 1 mission = 1 Reward.

The new system awards only 50 Wolf Cred after 30,000 worth of grinding for standing. And multiple of these challenges require multiple missions.

e.g. Complete 9 Invasion Missions. Complete 8 Bounties on the Plains (which is a minimum of at least 24 Bounty waves). Fully Socket 5 Ayatans, which requires at least 5 Arbitrations unless you have a Maroo Weekly available. And then you better hope you have 5 Amber Stars just laying around. Scanning 5 Simaris targets takes at least 5 missions. And you can't even do 5 in a day unless you get lucky. Let's add this up. 8 Bounties + 9 Invasions + 5 Simaris Scans + 5 Arbitration Waves = 27 missions. And it's going to exceed 30 missions by the time you do the rest of the challenges.

Meanwhile, in this Newbie purposed Cred Store, they are not even going to get the benefit of Elite Challenges like the Hydrolyst, and probably Sorties too. Because they just can't do them.

The Wolf Cred system is a reward pool for Newbies. Yet, how are they supposed to be able to do all of this? And then only get enough Cred to buy 1-2 rewards in a cycle? Maybe 2-3 rewards if you go for Aura Mods or Nitain? Still terrible economy for the new players. You do like 30 missions and get 2-3 rewards Max. Time-gated as well.

20 hours ago, Xaxma said:

>get way more nitain than you could ever need

I don't think the improved Nitain rate is enough to save this. You don't even need Nitain to craft that many items. Not a significant enough resource to compensate for how bad it feels to do like 30 missions for such little payout.

20 hours ago, Xaxma said:

>free weapon and warframe slots; previously a paid feature

>free potatoes and forma bundles

>free cosmetics

The majority of this is in the Standing reward pool. That one is actually fine, imo. Since it is geared more toward veteran players, it makes sense. But the Cred Store is really what is on trial here. Especially considering it draws a direct comparison to the old Alert system, because the rewards are the same. That system is deeply flawed and needs revision. For example, receiving Wolf Cred for each Challenge, or something like that. People are asking for improvements, not just blindly complaining (which is what you're implying)

This is why you are seeing these posts on the forums. You are not thinking about this hard enough. You have to consider the economy. It is so very important. You can't just take a look at the idea and call it good without considering the execution.

Edited March 3, 2019 by (PS4)Jedi_Arts_

[Xaxma]

2 hours ago, Xylia said:

Hint: It's not the time-gating some of us don't like.

It's the RIMITED TIME ONRY!!!! crap that some of us hate.

Time-Gating is fine. I have no issues with the Daily, or Weekly nature of the Acts. I'd have to say I don't even mind the rotational nature of the Wolf Cred rewards, where the list changes every week (as long as stuff like Nitains are always available), as long as said stuff will eventually come back around again and none of it is LostForever.

I don't like the "YOU MUST GET 30K PER WEEK OR YOU WILL MISS OUT ON EXCLUSIVE CONTENT THAT WILL NEVER BE AVAILABLE EVER AGAIN!!!!!" stuff.

 

EDIT: Also, the idea that your progress will get reset when the next season comes out doesn't instill me with a huge amount of motivation to go out and do Nightwave objectives. So even if I did make it to Rank 20, 25, or heck even 30... then the 10 weeks ends, and I start off from zero next season again. That's why I keep saying they shoulda just made it like Cephalon Simaris where you get standing points, you use standing points to get what you are personally interested in. No Ranks, No Seasons, etc. Would have made a lot more sense.

Who's to say it's limited time only?
Who's to say it won't come back?

Who's the say it's exclusive content? 

The only "limited time content" arguable here is the armor set and sigils, which in of themselves aren't only not necessary, but ought to only be rewarded to people who are invested enough to put the effort into them. Last I checked, Nitain, creds, potatoes, helmets, slots, and forma aren't going to magically disappear when the season is over. 60% of the challenges is a fairly reasonable assumption to be making in my opinion if you want to complete all the tiers in a timely fashion, plus you actually get a 3k standing mission on a daily basis if you haven't checked, plus you can randomly get those dudes to capture, which have been hinted as increasing in spawn as the event goes on alongside the Wolf ...

Moreover, why not argue against events as a system? "You snooze you lose" is a mantra repeated throughout life, hon. If you are not there to participate and do your part in an event, in-game or IRL, you miss out. That's how life works. Simple as that. The party does not stop if you not present, it just moves on without you.

You are not forced to do anything, please stop repeating this.

You don't actually NEED to have this armor set and sigil.

You WANT this armor set, alongside the Umbra forma, alongside the mountains of Kuva, alongside the whatever it is you want at higher tiers. Do you know what you do about things you want? You get them. Simple.

If you cannot get it for some reason? If you have an excuse? Nobody cares. Do you have a vacation? Nobody cares. Do you have a family obligation? Nobody cares. Do you have a job that requires every ounce of your time? Nobody cares. YOU are unmotivated, while others are game on this and have already put the work towards the final objective? Nobody cares, I don't want you getting the rewards. Nobody is going to part the red sea and stop the presses because one guy among several can't keep up.

That's the most ridiculous expectation I've ever heard. It's selfish.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Xaxma

[Xzorn]

Something that strikes me as odd about the entire process is that Alerts don't feel like they needed to be removed.

Alerts sucked because DE ignored them for literally the entire history of Warframe and made players further hate the concept with Nitain but Alerts aren't bad and they're essentially still in the game via Void Fissures and Invasions. DE moved Primes to Alerts instead of the Void which was a constant any time system.

If I want to do an Axi Fissure survival on one of the four maps we have to choose from. I'm still limited by a window of availability.

Rewards aside, it all feels very back and forth.

[sam686]

36 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Something that strikes me as odd about the entire process is that Alerts don't feel like they needed to be removed.

I agree. Nightmare alerts that shows a specific rewards like Blaze and matchmaking works fast. Now: Limited to only regular nightmare mission that isn't alert, random mod, with hidden, unknown expire time, and very slow matchmaking if it finds any one at all if started unknowingly at the last second.

And no, I don't see any nightmare golden mods like Blaze in Nightwave Cred Offerings.

Some alerts did need to go bye bye: alerts with credits only reward.