New Prime passives because old passives are outdated by new content

[Midas]

Warframe Prime Passive

Why do we need new passives?

To the true difference between a prime warframe are three things. Ascetics, slight stat changes, and an ability for Warframes to obtain energy while ONLY on the void tile set. The Waframe stat changes can be extremely helpful when a Warframe's max power pool is increased but everything else is minimal in true endgame. Most players only upgrade to primes because of pool differences and how they look. Another way to influence a player's decision in upgrading to more efficient Orokin technology (Prime Warframes) would be to change that void passive to something more effective and useful. The current passive is simply providing a energy burst when hitting Orokin energy orbs while on the void tile set. I believe this passive is greatly outdated while following new content like Railjack and New War, the passive slowly becomes more and more pointless and outdated.

What can the new passives be?

New passives can be unique to each frame or all around the same for every prime frame. An idea from myself after almost 6 plus years of playing this game would be to provide prime frames with an upgraded passive to a Warframe itself. For example: Khora's beast tamer passive allows Venari to return after 45 seconds and provide a boost to her sprint speed why not go a bit further and provide Khora as a prime with her original passive on release for every companion she has she gets 15% more armor. This would only count your companions boosting your armor overall. With two arcane guardians this would give you alone 1475 * .3 = 443 extra armor (rounded up). This passive can be used on any tile set and provides a direct improvement from prime to normal frames.

Do I plan to stop here?

No it would be unproductive of me to waltz in here and say just improve passives done 🙂 I plan to improve this page more and more with updated passive ideas for prime Warframes to further distinguish them from their imitations. These passives will allow players to have a bit more kick with prime frames and feel the need to get them over normal frames. I know a few people who totally don't care about aesthetics at all (I know this is crazy lol) but this would help them make the decision to upgrade to a prime and further distinguish them. I will start with a few frames first for prime.

If you have a passive idea suggest it

If you think my idea to simply boost passives and not add on passives please let me know! I will organize my passive page and add on second passives if the original passive is completely mundane as some of them can be. Please help me remove the old void energy orb passive as we have pads, Zenurik, arcane energize, and energy support frames to receive energy now (You should be using pads no matter what in endurance runs).

Volt

Spoiler

Volt Prime Passive: For every 1 meter traveled, 15 points of Electricity damage are added, accumulating to a maximum of 1000 bonus damage points.

Volt Prime Passive: Lightning Rod: For every ability casted, volt gets up to 2% casting speed stacking up to 5 times for 15 seconds (timer resets every cast) (10%) we can do 15% if needed.

* added 10 more points per meter traveled

* Helps with shields during tridolons for more shields faster

* I generally see volt as a caster frame with his 1s on the go stuns his two for speed and his shields being used frequently in Defence, Survival, Arbitrations, and Eidolons. His for being casted for group cc or damage.

* reduces the point of using a natural talent or just straight adds on to more casting speed.

Banshee

Spoiler

Banshee Prime Passive: All of Banshee's equipped weapons, including Gunblades are treated as silent.

Banshee Prime passive: Shock: All enemies that catch notice of banshee have a 1-2 second pause before attacking. (Takes effect after silence stun ends)

* Would help with silence for sustain for long term gameplay

* Provides a bit more endurance for non-silence setups for banshee solo and team play.

Saryn

Spoiler

Saryn Prime Passive: Status effects inflicted by Saryn's weapons and abilities last 30% longer

Saryn Prime Passive: Toxic Rush: Saryn gets a total of 15% more attacks speed while her Toxic Lash is active and using melee (obviously).

*increased duration by 5%

* Provides a buff to Toxic Lash being spread slightly faster.

 

Oberon

Spoiler

• Oberon Prime passive: Allied Kubrows and Kavats receive +30% Health, Shield, and Armor links. The player's Kubrow or Kavat receives 2 instant revives per mission.
• * 5% to Health, Shield, and Armor for Kubrows and Kavats.
• * 2 instant revives for animals.

Khora

Spoiler

Khora Prime Passive: Venari returns after 40 seconds and provides a sprint boost to Khora

Khora Prime Passive: Kin: Animal companions provide a 15% armor boost to Khora (stacks only with your companions including Venari)

*reduced Venari return time by 5 seconds

*Added original passive to Khora for arcane guardian/steel fiber armor stacking

Equinox

Spoiler

Equinox Prime Passive: Gain 10% Energy from health orbs and 10% health from energy orbs

Equinox Prime Passive: Transmutation: Equinox gains 1 second of invulnerability while casting Metamorphosis (cast time of the ability is one second as well). and gains 5 health a second in night form and an extra 5% to weapon damage and sprint speed (may be a little op)

* did not buff original passive because thats too much (Hildryn provides energy orbs so does nekros abuse abuse abuse!!!).

*added slight changes to metamorphosis for casting sustain in high level missions 200+ (You don't get killed for casting :)) and slight buffs for star chart.

Nyx

Spoiler

Nyx Prime Passive: Enemies are 25% less accurate when targeting Nyx

Nyx Prime Passive: Precision: Mind controlled units have 15% more accuracy when targeting enemies (accuracy scales with enemy level currently in game)

* Increased accuracy reduction to 25% for more sustain as squish cc

* Made mind controlled units more sharper in targeting opponents.

Ember

Spoiler

Ember Prime Passive: Ember gains 35% power strength when procing Heat damage on an enemy.

*Changed from taking heat damage to dealing heat damage (prime only!)

Nekros

Spoiler

Nekros Prime Passive: Nekros regenerates 15 health for every enemy killed within 15 meters.

Nekros Prime Passive: Dark Siphon: Nekros has a 15% chance to gain damage immunity (gray hp stats) for 3 seconds whenever his shadows kill an enemy.

* Original passive buffed by 10 health per kill and range by 5 meters

* Nekros's 4 now grants immunity which helps with enemy scaling, this falls off once enemies get high enough that thralls can no longer kill without damage assistance (Sonar, Roar, etc...). Overall this will help Nekros sustain in arbitrations and long term survivals.

Will be adding more stay tuned post ideas!

General Prime Passives

General prime passives will be added here in dear time. I will begin to think of some today and list them. The reason this list has come up is because Digital Extremes does not have the time to simply re-add another buff instead of purely replacing the prime passives. I will continue to buff the original frame passives/add new ones as well but for better output we will tackle primes as a whole with a brand new passive.  All above passives go on as if general passives never existed.

Prime Passive: Glamor: With pristine Orokin technology, a prime Warframe has increased dodge chance by 10% and a straight increase to accuracy reduction by 15%! This will provide MANY end game players with extreme sustain! Many frames like Banshee, Trinity, and Khora would not last past level 250+ This would give them a 15% to dodge all projectiles and hits for better survivability but not too overpowered that it won't make them not die instantly if you make a mistake. Accuracy reduction is very rare in this game and comes from two sources to my knowledge, Nyx's passive and the EMP aura which affects only corpus. The accuracy reduction would stack with EMP aura additively.

Prime Passive: Jade Light: During a casting animation, Warframe gains 100% damage reduction, can still take toxin, heat, gas procs... damage is dealt upon animation ending if the proc is still up. This will help primes tremendously with sustain. As most Warframes cannot be played past level 250.

Prime Passive: War Eternal: Get a 5% damage to sentients from the frame itself and when using a prime weapon, get another 5% damage to sentients, Corrupted enemy units have a 15% accuracy reduction/do not react until 2 seconds upon seeing a prime Warframe out of confusion (Old War ally).

 

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Midas

[bubbabenali]

There is only one Frame that needs a new passive: Ember

The others sometimes are kinder underwhelming, but Embers is just utter garbage

[peterc3]

There's no mechanical difference between a Prime and the base frame.

If you are proposing a change to an existing system, match the scope. A passive that would apply to every Prime and not just something that would take time and energy to go back and change existing frames and increase the workload for new frames.

[Midas]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

There's no mechanical difference between a Prime and the base frame.

If you are proposing a change to an existing system, match the scope. A passive that would apply to every Prime and not just something that would take time and energy to go back and change existing frames and increase the workload for new frames.

I was thinking about this honestly, I will come up with general prime passives that provide an all rounder usage.

[Midas]

13 hours ago, peterc3 said:

There's no mechanical difference between a Prime and the base frame.

If you are proposing a change to an existing system, match the scope. A passive that would apply to every Prime and not just something that would take time and energy to go back and change existing frames and increase the workload for new frames.

Check out the General passive idea(s). I really like the accuracy reduction one as it benefits you for all content ahead.

[Atsia]

So yeah, any changes are gonna have to a new general Prime passive, DE isn't gonna give primes specific upgraded passives. Your general idea isn't bad, but that values are too low to make a real difference, and Dodge still isn't a reliable defense.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I think the flaw in your logic is this: Primes are supposed to be entirely optional shiny things you chase for Mastery Rank and the slightly better survivability stats they have.

The idea being that a person without the Prime is not losing out on anything except a few points of shield/health/armour/sprint speed and a bit of bonus energy in one tile set.

If you were to make any of these changes, including giving them an upgraded dodge/evasion passive, then it would make a very large majority of the player base see them as a mandatory direct upgrade (as opposed to the way they're only perceived to be currently). It would artificially inflate all the prices of trading the Vaulted Prime parts, too, as people who didn't have access to those 'better' frames would be chasing their shiny gear even harder.

Yes, Primes should be special, but no, Primes should not be direct upgrades from regular frames, their gameplay should be almost identical for actual day-to-day use.

[Midas]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I think the flaw in your logic is this: Primes are supposed to be entirely optional shiny things you chase for Mastery Rank and the slightly better survivability stats they have.

The idea being that a person without the Prime is not losing out on anything except a few points of shield/health/armour/sprint speed and a bit of bonus energy in one tile set.

If you were to make any of these changes, including giving them an upgraded dodge/evasion passive, then it would make a very large majority of the player base see them as a mandatory direct upgrade (as opposed to the way they're only perceived to be currently). It would artificially inflate all the prices of trading the Vaulted Prime parts, too, as people who didn't have access to those 'better' frames would be chasing their shiny gear even harder.

Yes, Primes should be special, but no, Primes should not be direct upgrades from regular frames, their gameplay should be almost identical for actual day-to-day use.

I agree with you in the fact thats its bad for the market. However I am going to work to find a medium that won’t make primes necessary but at least remove a passive that future content 3 years down the line won’t benefit. I feel most players also attempt to get primes as mandatory already. Most of them probably don’t even know the slight stat variations make a small difference but they still do it. The void is a small portion of the game and I have yet to see new content that does include Orokin death orbs besides the void tileset. I will list some more passive ideas that may be beneficial.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Midas

[MJ12]

6 hours ago, Atsia said:

So yeah, any changes are gonna have to a new general Prime passive, DE isn't gonna give primes specific upgraded passives. Your general idea isn't bad, but that values are too low to make a real difference, and Dodge still isn't a reliable defense.

How about...

"Prime Warframes deal an additional +10% damage to Sentient enemies with Abilities and receive 10% less damage from Sentient enemies. When wielded by Prime Warframes, Prime Weapons deal an additional 10% damage to Sentient enemies as well. Corrupted enemies have slightly slower reactions and reduced accuracy against Prime Warframes due to IFF confusion."

This would emphasize that Prime Warframes and weapons were developed by the Orokin for the Sentient war. It's specialist and minor but it'd be noticeable and useful for New War and Void content.

[Mu_Gera]

I feel like no passive fits a frames theme better than Adaptation as revenants new passive. It could be equal to the unranked version or not but either way it feels way more appropriate than a dinky explosion on empty shields. 

[Midas]

35 minutes ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

I feel like no passive fits a frames theme better than Adaptation as revenants new passive. It could be equal to the unranked version or not but either way it feels way more appropriate than a dinky explosion on empty shields. 

He has an innate knockdown and has 100% damage mitigation with his 2. Adaptation only gives you 90% damage reduction even with 3 90% damage reductions a level 200+ will still one shot you. Revenant is probably the best tank currently for high scaling enemies... But I agree his knockdown passive only triggers on shield loss. Trying to make general passive accuracy reduction for pseudo invuln for other frames. Will think of another passive for Revenant as the plains is a limiting area for him.

 

1 hour ago, MJ12 said:

How about...

"Prime Warframes deal an additional +10% damage to Sentient enemies with Abilities and receive 10% less damage from Sentient enemies. When wielded by Prime Warframes, Prime Weapons deal an additional 10% damage to Sentient enemies as well. Corrupted enemies have slightly slower reactions and reduced accuracy against Prime Warframes due to IFF confusion."

This would emphasize that Prime Warframes and weapons were developed by the Orokin for the Sentient war. It's specialist and minor but it'd be noticeable and useful for New War and Void content.

10% damage to sentients functions like faction mods it takes the total damage mutliplies it by 10% in this case then adds that 10% on to the total damage... It can turn out to be a lot of damage in the end so it may be a little op... 10% of one million is 100,000 extra damage against sentients, that can make a differences big time especially with gas (damage for the toxin proc, the cloud, and I believe the gas proc all multiply by 10%...). If it function differently than faction mods it would be nice, I would lower it to 5% just because damage against sentients can be a little op if built right. I agree with your lore statement and I have thought about that, but I don't want to throw umbra under the bus who has already taken that position of stripping damage reduction against sentients and literally giving you a stupid faction multiplier against them with the melee umbra set.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Midas

[Shaderox]

Personally i'd like primes to have some difference from the normal versions passive, but i'd probably want to keep it a bit simpler.

like, same passive but slightly higher numbers or let mods make some minor effect on the passive (guess it would be power strength in most cases) nothing big or game changing that makes it feel like mandatory upgrades just a bit more if you want to invest in getting a prime variant or min/max stuff.

But i do like the idea of primes using prime weapons getting some bonus (maybe just some small reload speed and channeling efficiency (whichever applies to the weapon type), the stats people usually don't care enough about to mod for).

 

like i said, i like the idea and initiative as long as it's keept as tiny improvements over the regular versions, like it is currently with just a little more of a stat and more base polaritys, but no big, major advantages. Or maybe we'll see primes with small improvements to passives instead of improvements to stats in the future.

 

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

I dont mind unique effects attributed to primes, as long as they are minor tweaks to the passive or one ability.

But your topic OP misses a lot of existing primes while amusingly gives examples for yet unreleased primes.

[Midas]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

I dont mind unique effects attributed to primes, as long as they are minor tweaks to the passive or one ability.

But your topic OP misses a lot of existing primes while amusingly gives examples for yet unreleased primes.

Updating them all somewhat will go over them again for more in depth posted below all the frames currently. Focusing more on general passives now 😕 DE is struggling to push content redoing all prime frames individually with small tweaks is not worth just replacing death orb passive.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Midas

[Guest]

Make all primes have a base 1.5 energy/second regen (applies to Umbra as well).

[Mu_Gera]

2 hours ago, Midas said:

He has an innate knockdown and has 100% damage mitigation with his 2. Adaptation only gives you 90% damage reduction even with 3 90% damage reductions a level 200+ will still one shot you. Revenant is probably the best tank currently for high scaling enemies

The innate knockdown is useless to anything not right next to you and there's plenty of things that bypass or shred through mesmer skin. It's also cause of that an adaptation passive would work very well beyond just thematically.

And downplaying 90% dr is something else though, as that should be fine for everything up until level 200+ enemies.

[Midas]

1 hour ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

The innate knockdown is useless to anything not right next to you and there's plenty of things that bypass or shred through mesmer skin. It's also cause of that an adaptation passive would work very well beyond just thematically.

And downplaying 90% dr is something else though, as that should be fine for everything up until level 200+ enemies.

i'll throw an inate 90% dr on for his passive I guess. Although with mesmer skin I have been doing phenominal with acrobating everywhere while reaving for true damage. chance of them hitting is a bit difficult when I am moving (arbitrations for an hour and a half + exploiter). However you have a point, I struggled against prophet taker.

[Mu_Gera]

18 hours ago, Midas said:

i'll throw an inate 90% dr on for his passive I guess. Although with mesmer skin I have been doing phenominal with acrobating everywhere while reaving for true damage. chance of them hitting is a bit difficult when I am moving (arbitrations for an hour and a half + exploiter). However you have a point, I struggled against prophet taker.

I mean it still needs to stack and it's not for every damage type at once, but it's still miles better practically and thematically. 

[XenMaster]

Nyx new passive

 

Enemies affected by her powers will give (when killed by player)

 

1. Free Energy Siphon aura by 0.5 energy per sec (last for 10 sec)

 

2. Energy cost reduced by 30% for one time cast

 

The Energy Siphon will stack with other player who have killed the psychic affected enemies.

 

Or

 

Enemies affected by her powers will give wallhack to Nyx with 3.0 punch through for any ranged weapons within 30m.

[Teridax68]

I'm personally of the opposite opinion: to me, prime frames are basically just Orokin-themed deluxe skins, and need not be anything more. I dislike how they're tied to an entirely new frame body, mod table, mastery rating, etc., and I think even the marginal stat increases and Death Orb passive they currently have are unnecessary, and more a relic of Excalibur Prime's release than anything else. In this respect, while the effort to propose upgraded passives I think is impressive, I would personally rather push for the opposite, i.e. to reduce the differences between primes and non-primes, or even eliminate them outright.

[DrivaMain]

46 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I'm personally of the opposite opinion: to me, prime frames are basically just Orokin-themed deluxe skins, and need not be anything more. I dislike how they're tied to an entirely new frame body, mod table, mastery rating, etc., and I think even the marginal stat increases and Death Orb passive they currently have are unnecessary, and more a relic of Excalibur Prime's release than anything else. In this respect, while the effort to propose upgraded passives I think is impressive, I would personally rather push for the opposite, i.e. to reduce the differences between primes and non-primes, or even eliminate them outright.

Prime frames are created by advanced orokin technology in terms of lore it makes sense that they are better than their mass produced versions. If we eliminated the benefits of having prime warframes then what’s the point of getting them then? I know people acquire prime warframes for fashion but how about for people who are not interested in the fashion aspect? And don’t even think mentioning using primes for MR fodder and it might potentially reduce the value of Prime Access.

If you are against the benefits of prime then how about Prime Weapons? They are significantly better than their non prime counterparts.

 

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

Prime frames are created by advanced orokin technology in terms of lore it makes sense that they are better than their mass produced versions. If we eliminated the benefits of having prime warframes then what’s the point of getting them then?

What's the point in getting deluxe skins? Or any cosmetic in Warframe? Primes are clear cosmetic upgrades, so there'd always be that going for them.

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

I know people acquire prime warframes for fashion but how about for people who are not interested in the fashion aspect?

... then we perhaps shouldn't pressure them to buy primes? Why exactly are we twisting people's arm into putting money into stuff they wouldn't normally want?

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

And don’t even think mentioning using primes for MR fodder and it might potentially reduce the value of Prime Access.

... what? I'm talking about not having primes contribute separate mastery from their regular counterparts; what are you on about?

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

If you are against the benefits of prime then how about Prime Weapons? They are significantly better than their non prime counterparts.

Same thing, I think prime weapons, and variants in general, should be cosmetic upgrades, rather than gameplay ones. There's perhaps room for making those weapons sidegrades, provided they introduced meaningful variations to the base weapon (e.g. the Opticor Vandal relative to the regular Opticor), but that has only rarely worked so far.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

If you are against the benefits of prime then how about Prime Weapons?

Don't mind Teridax. While the sentiment is not exactly all that far off, it's a little extreme. A Prime is classed as a different warframe from the base model, and so should grant Mastery, and should have a difference in its base stats due to better production quality.

On the other hand there, the sentiment is in the right direction. Picking a Prime is, and should always be optional. I don't mean like a skin, but I do mean that players who don't have a Prime should be envious, not at a direct detriment. It should not mean that a player with the base model is literally under-performing compared to a Prime.

I'm all for there being a clear upgrade from non-Prime to Prime, it just shouldn't be something that affects their power grading. The reason for that is Warframe powers are genuinely one of the most monitored things for exploits. Why was Ember nerfed so much? People weren't using her abilities as intended. Why was Limbo's Rift Walk moved to his passive? To give him a real ability. Having three abilities dedicated to interacting with whether you, allies and enemies were in or out of the Rift, versus only one ability that did something while you were in the Rift was ridiculous, and Limbo lacked any form of survivability when enemies were on the same side of the Rift plane as he was.

Abilities are the life-blood of the game, passives are almost always designed to be flavour over function, balanced with how powerful the frame is in general. Some were made more special, some weren't. But what you get for free in Warframe (without modding, without sacrificing a slot or without grind, etc.) is very limited.

What may not be apparent is that, with the exception of base survivability (which is a rather subjective thing in Warframe anyway, because carelessness will get you killed more often than your stats will), the game play is the same.

Prime Weapons, though, that's a different topic. With the weapons, it's easy to explain that, unlike a Prime where the materials affect only the stats, not the powers or effects those create, having a finer build for a weapon will almost always result in better performance. Shaped bullets, better barrel tuning, better trigger mechanism, all of these will have a distinct effect on the performance of a gun. The same with a sword, better materials, finer quality of smithing, refined shape of the blade, that will always result in a more specialised and thus more damaging weapon when used for the same function. If making a Prisma, or Vandal or Wraith version of a gun improves it, then having a Prime version of a Tenno weapon improves it.

That... and I just want to use this next week...:

Spoiler

I used up a year of good luck for that one...

[DrivaMain]

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

-snip-

If we remove the prime passives the prime frames will reduce in value and might reduce the incentives to buy Prime Access. Well, I have to agree that the prime passives shouldn’t make the base obselete, a minor increase in ability damage, duration, efficiency, and range would be a good upgrade and not forcing people to use them (around 1%-5%)

 

on the other hand, I have a stradavar riven to spoil myself 

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

a minor increase in ability damage, duration, efficiency, and range would be a good upgrade and not forcing people to use them (around 1%-5%)

With respect, I'll point out that DE are getting more and more cautious about this kind of thing.

Do you know why mods like Augur Secrets were released at 24% instead of 25%? It's because of abilities like Gara's Splinter Storm and several other abilities only need 25% Strength to gain their full effects, and it's to ensure that if a player only puts on one Strength mod they have to make a choice to say whether they want the effects from the Augur set (the shield gain) or do they want the maximum effect of the ability (and thus choose Intensify).

In short, DE are actually very careful not to break their own modding system.

It doesn't matter whether it's even 1%, that difference is enough to say that the Prime is then factually better than the base, in terms of the modding, and will perform better.

I'm one of the people that believe that Chroma Prime shouldn't have had an Armour increase with his Prime, and instead had something harmless like a Sprint Speed one, because his Health, Shield and Armour contribute to his abilities.

So yeah, I think there should be a statistical upgrade to the Warframe, just for being a Prime. But... Anything that affects the abilities, anything at all that contributes to make the actual abilities stronger, is a big no from me.