Wisp overshadows Loki completely

[Xiusa]

I'll start this off by saying Wisp looks dope; conceptually, visually, etc. I think her abilities are cool and will be fun to play around with. However, her second ability puts together 3 of Loki's abilities: Decoy, Invisibility, and Switch Teleport. Not to mention that she gains invisibility for free while airborne. Loki, while is still going to be really good, will only really have one cool thing going for him and that's Radial Disarm. I think that Loki should still have his Decoy + Teleport, but have it included into one ability and for him to have a third, and much better, ability.

[Acersecomic]

Loki's 2 is better than her Passive, but having that Passive is nice.

Loki's 1/3 is much, much faster and thus better.

Their 4th is too different from each other and play to their own strengths.

[(PSN)Mordecai_Vrykul]

they are different frames with different play styles i guess they are comparable since they can become invisible and teleport but that's pretty much it.

Loki has a duration based invisibility, wisp does not and can only be invisible while in the air. The benefit to this is a bit questionable but the benefit being you can get stealth aim glides and free invisibility. Loki on the other hand while invisible is like a wrecking ball with a ranged melee or hushed invisibility.

As for the teleporting that's harder to compare. Loki requires an enemy or player present for it to be used so its situational. Wisp can teleport whenever and where ever she wants and have it pass through lasers which seems more useful.

[Schmerdvana]

They're comparable but not entirely overshadows another.

I get what you are saying since recent frames' most skills are side-graded combinations of multiple abilities of other frames.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I disagree.  Her invisibility passive seems like active play wise so prowl but with proper movement.  Shoe horns her into a certain style while loki can remain passive and methodical with his invisibility.  He can also attack while being invisible thanks to an augment.  While her 2 does look like she becomes ignored by enemies we don't know if that's entirely true.  Her teleporting to it is on a much more strict timing.  and the effect of cc could be meh.  Loki has more control over his teleport.  And can use it more offensively because of that.

[Midas]

WIth Loki you can backup hallways with his decoy and prevent projectiles from killing you and your teammates in higher levels...

Wisp you need to be in air 100% of time while using your decoy when landing to kill as much as possible then air jump again and cast... It is heavily skill based for endurance.

[DirePresent]

Power creep is strong with this one

[Guest]

Nah, Wisp has no where near 1/100 Loki's stealthiness. Loki's invis is defo way better than her passive and his ability to CC and keep enemies focused on his decoys is much higher.

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

Kind of tired of all the threads about what is better than Loki 😐

If he’s so vastly inferior to all these other things, dont. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Xiusa]

I'd like to reiterate my statement: Wisp has ONE ability that has the same function as THREE of Loki's abilities. Loki is still going to be a good Warframe, but the fact remains that his design is suffering from age and the devs should consider giving him some more modern tools at his disposal.

[Atsia]

1 minute ago, Xiusa said:

I'd like to reiterate my statement: Wisp has ONE ability that has the same function as THREE of Loki's abilities. Loki is still going to be a good Warframe, but the fact remains that his design is suffering from age and the devs should consider giving him some more modern tools at his disposal.

 And they all function at a lesser capacity compared to Loki. The switch teleport is negligible since it's only between her and the specter, unlike Loki with everyone. Her invisibility in inky when she's in the air, and the decoy function doesn't really mean anything to Loki, you'd be better off making the argument with Saryn and Molt. Wisp isn't gonna overshadow Loki in any meaningful way, and while I'm not opposed to Loki tweaks, his kit is still solid enough to not need any major ability changes, switching, or replacement.

[Otaiken]

5 hours ago, Xiusa said:

I'd like to reiterate my statement: Wisp has ONE ability that has the same function as THREE of Loki's abilities. Loki is still going to be a good Warframe, but the fact remains that his design is suffering from age and the devs should consider giving him some more modern tools at his disposal.

The fact that Wisp's 2 is so overloaded is what makes it a pretty bad ability. You want your CC to be fast (as opposed to cast time+travel time+manual activation) but making it fast makes the decoy part even worse (since the decoy will last a short time). So your modding will probably ruin one part of the ability anyway.

Also, unlike Loki, Wisp can't really afford to tank power strength in her build.

[Knight_Prospekt]

Wisp needs the compact mobility and CC of her two because keeping up the in air invisibility is simply not going to function well on cramped ship tiles and she lacks in survival stats. Wisp seems to be shaping up around highly active movement and evasion with a little added flavor of going invisible in the air, whereas Loki can simply post up go invisible and go to work with a lot less management involved.

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

3 hours ago, LocoWithGun said:

The fact that Wisp's 2 is so overloaded is what makes it a pretty bad ability. You want your CC to be fast (as opposed to cast time+travel time+manual activation) but making it fast makes the decoy part even worse (since the decoy will last a short time). So your modding will probably ruin one part of the ability anyway.

I think that will be the balancing factor to not "overshadow" Loki's decoy. Having it perform multiple functions with drawbacks compared to another comparable ability.

How one ability, just one has got someone in a twist is...amazing. I think all is fine as is, Loki is the specialist trickster him having finer control of his trickery makes perfect sense, there's a reason why he hasn't been touched for such a long time.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

My dude, coming from a Loki starter who played the game from start to end of the startchart with Loki and fully mastered him above all other frames, I'm telling you, never was a Tenno so wrong.

I mean, how is that even debatable? Oh, right. It's debatable in the same way as that guy who says that just because Garuda has claws Valkyr is now completely useless. 

There's also a reason as to why Loki is one of the oldest frames with the most untouched/reworked skill sets. It's because no matter what DE releases (Case in point Ivara, he's still relevant). And oh boy don't get me started on how if Ivara doesn't overshadow him, how can someone possibly hope Wisp will do it.

Edited April 8, 2019 by (PS4)Pauloluisx

[Xiusa]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

My dude, coming from a Loki starter who played the game from start to end of the startchart with Loki and fully mastered him above all other frames, I'm telling you, never was a Tenno so wrong.

I mean, how is that even debatable? Oh, right. It's debatable in the same way as that guy who says that just because Garuda has claws Valkyr is now completely useless. 

There's also a reason as to why Loki is one of the oldest frames with the most untouched/reworked skill sets. It's because no matter what DE releases (Case in point Ivara, he's still relevant). And oh boy don't get me started on how if Ivara doesn't overshadow him, how can someone possibly hope Wisp will do it.

I started with Loki too, though. I know that Loki is strong. I even said it in the original post.

It's debatable because Loki's Decoy/Switch Teleport should be one ability. It's debatable because for years Loki has been seen as a top tier Warframe with no damaging abilities, so he's been ignored by the devs for touching up. I'm not even calling Loki useless, far from it. Loki is good and will continue to be good, but while Wisp has a free invis while airborne vs a 50 energy cost invis and also the one thing Loki REALLY needs (Decoy/ST in one ability) it's going to be something that people talk about.

Ivara has an invis that slows her down and lets her gather loot. The invis is broken in many ways. Ivara's kit is also vastly different in execution, whereas Wisp has the functionality of three of Loki's abilities put into one + her passive. Loki NEEDS an update. Not a rework. An UPDATE.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

13 minutes ago, Xiusa said:

I started with Loki too, though. I know that Loki is strong. I even said it in the original post.

It's debatable because Loki's Decoy/Switch Teleport should be one ability. It's debatable because for years Loki has been seen as a top tier Warframe with no damaging abilities, so he's been ignored by the devs for touching up. I'm not even calling Loki useless, far from it. Loki is good and will continue to be good, but while Wisp has a free invis while airborne vs a 50 energy cost invis and also the one thing Loki REALLY needs (Decoy/ST in one ability) it's going to be something that people talk about.

Ivara has an invis that slows her down and lets her gather loot. The invis is broken in many ways. Ivara's kit is also vastly different in execution, whereas Wisp has the functionality of three of Loki's abilities put into one + her passive. Loki NEEDS an update. Not a rework. An UPDATE.

On that we kinda agree. To be honest, her comparison to Loki is why I'm actually hyped for Wisp. Well, they're not necessarily similar on the invisibility, but I like the trickery and playfield manipulation of Wisp. Plus she has damage, something Loki doesn't and I find it good.

I only say the doesn't outshine Loki in stealth, which is his main characteristic. Yeah, she has invisibility passive, but seems too unreliable compared to actual stealth frames. I even wonder why she has such a passive. And she's also part support frame with her buff seeds, which is nice.

But in the end it's just yet another approach to an ability that already exists, and we have plenty of that with a lot of frames. The most iconic group for different takes on different skills would actually be Loki-Octavia-Ivara-Limbo, and now Wisp. All have something in common, but all of them have different ways to use the same things.

As for Loki, apart from his sadly weak Decoy, I really don't see the need for an update, but that's an opinion of course.