Stop making the Saturn Six Fugitives Invincible!!!

[(NSW)Kaizer]

When the Wolf comes and a trio of fugitives are with him they are invincible! Why!? That makes no sense to me, I rather be able to get rid of them, they're a bigger pain than the Wolf himself because they take no damage, and cannot be captured till you defeat the Wolf.

I've experienced this twice and frankly I hate it.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

The worst design choice was to make an heavily armored miniboss immune to status procs.

[JaycemeSwain]

1 minute ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The worst design choice was to make an heavily armored miniboss immune to status procs.

Not really, just means you have to focus on pure crit and damage, just like with the eidolons.

10 minutes ago, (NSW)Kaizer said:

When the Wolf comes and a trio of fugitives are with him they are invincible! Why!? That makes no sense to me, I rather be able to get rid of them, they're a bigger pain than the Wolf himself because they take no damage, and cannot be captured till you defeat the Wolf.

I've experienced this twice and frankly I hate it. 

Take a garuda(cause you can continously increase the damage of your 1) or have a tanky frame when you're trying to farm his ass

[Wyrmius_Prime]

4 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

Not really, just means you have to focus on pure crit and damage, just like with the eidolons.

So basically they are rendering over half of the weapons in the entire game completely useless. IMO that's just dumb.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

So basically they are rendering over half of the weapons in the entire game completely useless. IMO that's just dumb.

Ever fought Kela as a Sortie Boss? Or Vor?
There you can see what happens if bosses aren't immune to Status Procs. They melt.
Even though the Wolf is a crazy bullet sponge it is better than have him disappear the moment he spawns because of all the procs.

[JaycemeSwain]

Just now, Wyrmius_Prime said:

So basically they are rendering over half of the weapons in the entire game completely useless. IMO that's just dumb.

Its not dumb, Wolf isn't meant to be a oneshot pushover like stalker/zanuka/G3. He is meant to be tanky and we haven't even seen his final form. Maybe just get better at modding instead of whinging because the enemy isn't just a meltover with your soma prime. Wolf is designed pretty well. I want all the field bosses to be designed like him.

[MirageKnight]

21 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

Maybe just get better at modding instead of whinging because the enemy isn't just a meltover with your soma prime.

Ah, the obligatory, presumptuous "git gud" post.

23 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

Wolf is designed pretty well.

In your opinion, which not everyone shares.

23 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

I want all the field bosses to be designed like him.

Dear God NO. The game needs truly challenging bosses that can evade our attacks and use different abilities / weapons. Insane bullet sponges are not challenging. They are boring and tedious to deal with. And Wolf Boy is the dullest thing I've ever faced.

[Rawbeard]

33 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

So basically they are rendering over half of the weapons in the entire game completely useless. IMO that's just dumb.

status breaks the game, so bosses are immune. they are trying to rework it for years without any change to the system, which makes me suspect they don't know what to do with it. until then join the crit master race

[Rawbeard]

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

The game needs truly challenging bosses that can evade our attacks and use different abilities / weapons.

that would require skill from players who would then need to eat their "git gud" comments. very undesireable 😉

[(NSW)Kaizer]

The point of this was not the Wolf himself, but his minions the fugitives whom are around him during the fight are taking absolutely no damage whatsoever till their boss the Wolf is defeated.

[(NSW)Nintendork3D]

It's a dumb choice and I agree, the Wolf is NOT fun to fight.  Four people should not take an HOUR to kill him because of his insane health.  We were all literally resorting to melee as we were all out of ammo.  And when we have three jerk offs spamming seriously broken Molotov cocktails that have no business doing that much damage, yeah, people are annoyed.

[(NSW)gkathellar]

It's really strange. Minions in boss fights are normally there to provide some mix of (a) a momentary diversion or (b) opportunities for players to refill meters/pick up consumables/etc. But these guys don't do either. They're not really a diversion because you have no reason to pay attention to them while the Wolf is up, and they're not useful because of their invulnerability. What they amount to in practice is more DPS for the Wolf, and sometimes a damage immunity when they sponge shots meant for him. It's frustrating because they look like enemies, but they're not really enemies.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

status breaks the game, so bosses are immune. they are trying to rework it for years without any change to the system, which makes me suspect they don't know what to do with it. until then join the crit master race

Status fixes the broken game. If DE has to introduce enemies with 99.999999% damage reduction for it to be challenging, the problem lies somewhere deeper than just in status procs.

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Status fixes the broken game. If DE has to introduce enemies with 99.999999% damage reduction for it to be challenging, the problem lies somewhere deeper than just in status procs.

Power creep, thanks in part to mods that grant 100%+ damage to weapons and abilities. Spin to win / Maiming Strike is a PRIME example of this.

2 hours ago, (NSW)Kaizer said:

The point of this was not the Wolf himself, but his minions the fugitives whom are around him during the fight are taking absolutely no damage whatsoever till their boss the Wolf is defeated.

Understood, sorry for derailing a bit there. His minions should definitely be kill-able for sure, but let's make things interesting.

For each one you kill, you increase Wolf Boy's movement and attack speed a notch. This would represent his rage increasing from seeing one of his "pack members" killed / captured.

[(NSW)Kaizer]

2 hours ago, (NSW)gkathellar said:

It's really strange. Minions in boss fights are normally there to provide some mix of (a) a momentary diversion or (b) opportunities for players to refill meters/pick up consumables/etc. But these guys don't do either. They're not really a diversion because you have no reason to pay attention to them while the Wolf is up, and they're not useful because of their invulnerability. What they amount to in practice is more DPS for the Wolf, and sometimes a damage immunity when they sponge shots meant for him. It's frustrating because they look like enemies, but they're not really enemies.

Indeed, more like meat shields. Just glad the two times I encountered this issue I had Excalibur Umbra blind/stun them so they couldn't help their boss. I've seen them frozen too. But man I have hit them with Arca Plasmor my endgame Kitgun, even Exhalted Blade which has endgame power too but they take nothing as long as the Wolf is standing.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

5 hours ago, JaycemeSwain said:

Its not dumb, Wolf isn't meant to be a oneshot pushover like stalker/zanuka/G3. He is meant to be tanky and we haven't even seen his final form. Maybe just get better at modding instead of whinging because the enemy isn't just a meltover with your soma prime. Wolf is designed pretty well. I want all the field bosses to be designed like him.

That funny because if you don't Mod the Soma properly, it's not one shouting anything. Maybe think about what you're saying before speaking because what he said is entirely true. Regardless of your personal opinion, it still makes quite a few weapons useless. All status based weapons are not worth using on the world. Or not in my party at least. But we're not trying to be fighting him for 30 mins.

[SteelOverseer666]

5 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

evade our attacks

lol good luck

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by SteelOverseer666

[Xarteros]

I don't see why people are upset about not being able to use 100% of weapons on the Wolf.

You have 3 weapon slots, plus room for a companion, heavy weapon and potentially an exalted weapon/companion. Plus, now we've got status diversity in Operator weapons too.

Unless you just don't even care or think about damage types, you could easily bring damage types for a multitude of purposes, and make sure that you have a mixture of status and crit-focused attacks. You don't NEED the Operator amp arcanes, or companions or heavy weapons to achieve this. They just add to it all.

All that aside, nothing should have true invincibility. There are other ways to make the fight a challenge than just hurling stats and invulnerability at it all. Why not make each of the fugitives grant only ~10 standing on kill (no capture for these ones), but make them spawn throughout the battle?

[SprinKah]

He was nerfed to heck to compensate for the fugitive bois, I feel like if they make the fugitive bois vulnerable when he's still around it'd be pretty god damn pointless for them to be there.

Think of it as Wolfy protecting his lads, alright? 

 

[Wyrmius_Prime]

8 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Power creep, thanks in part to mods that grant 100%+ damage to weapons and abilities. Spin to win / Maiming Strike is a PRIME example of this.

This makes all those mods mandatory though. If status is useless, then the only option for modding is having the biggest raw damage and crit numbers possible.

12 hours ago, JaycemeSwain said:

Its not dumb, Wolf isn't meant to be a oneshot pushover like stalker/zanuka/G3. He is meant to be tanky and we haven't even seen his final form. Maybe just get better at modding instead of whinging because the enemy isn't just a meltover with your soma prime. Wolf is designed pretty well. I want all the field bosses to be designed like him.

Your statement contradicts itself.

Soma is actually one of the more ideal weapons against Wolf. Every ''meta'' weapon is, because they are more often that not pure crit based. Guess what I like to play on average missions? Hema, Battacor, a bit of 100% status chance Akbronco Prime and a bit of Akstiletto Prime. Guess what they do against a mid level Wolf? 50 damage per shot. #*!%ing 50.

Wolf forces players to follow the braindead meta of modding everything towards radiation and as large damage numbers as possible. There is no alternative to that, because everything else imaginable is garbage.

Wolf is absolutely a one shot pushover if you're geared for the fight. The only challenge comes from him always spawning when you're leveling low level items.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Wyrmius_Prime

[Ham_Grenabe]

14 hours ago, (NSW)gkathellar said:

It's really strange. Minions in boss fights are normally there to provide some mix of (a) a momentary diversion or (b) opportunities for players to refill meters/pick up consumables/etc. But these guys don't do either. They're not really a diversion because you have no reason to pay attention to them while the Wolf is up, and they're not useful because of their invulnerability. What they amount to in practice is more DPS for the Wolf, and sometimes a damage immunity when they sponge shots meant for him. It's frustrating because they look like enemies, but they're not really enemies.

That's a good description - they're basically "null stars" for the Wolf. So weird to have minions be invulnerable until the boss is killed, instead of the other way around. 

[(NSW)Kaizer]

10 hours ago, SprinKah said:

He was nerfed to heck to compensate for the fugitive bois, I feel like if they make the fugitive bois vulnerable when he's still around it'd be pretty god damn pointless for them to be there.

Think of it as Wolfy protecting his lads, alright? 

 

Uh no, because they do as they please and nothing more. In fact I ran into them for a third time during a relic run and I told the team to bail on him so we could just redeem our relics. Good news I got the tipedo prime handle for doing that. I'm sick of the wolf and his bull. I had no intention of wasting my time on him or those invincible minions.

[-AncientWarrior-]

23 hours ago, (NSW)Kaizer said:

When the Wolf comes and a trio of fugitives are with him they are invincible! Why!? That makes no sense to me, I rather be able to get rid of them, they're a bigger pain than the Wolf himself because they take no damage, and cannot be captured till you defeat the Wolf.

I've experienced this twice and frankly I hate it.

You have to kill Wolfie first then the Six are normal easy kills..

[(NSW)Kaizer]

Just now, Madas007 said:

You have to kill Wolfie first then the Six are normal easy kills..

Did you even read that I stated I already know that?

[SprinKah]

8 hours ago, (NSW)Kaizer said:

Uh no, because they do as they please and nothing more. In fact I ran into them for a third time during a relic run and I told the team to bail on him so we could just redeem our relics. Good news I got the tipedo prime handle for doing that. I'm sick of the wolf and his bull. I had no intention of wasting my time on him or those invincible minions.

well...alright, what a shame.

I for once love the fact that he and his boys actually push me to move around.