Remove the Simulors Effects

[RagingShark-Shade]

im just tired of Mirage Player Runnin around and spam the Simulor and thats not the main problem.... i don't really care if people use this Dumpsterfire

but what starts kickin Ptsd in my Brain is the Big Nuke ball of Energy.... you cant see S#&$ through it if a Mirage with 4 Specters Fires this thing.... even my Friend who got one time a 

epileptical attack and even he Said this over lighting effect is too much.... pls Remove the Effect or turn it to a light level down

 

[ReaverKane]

The worse part is that most of those people are just doing that on purpose...
I've ran into several people using simulor with max fire rate just to fill the room with blinding light.
How do i know this? Because i was playing Volt Prime, on a low level area (press 4 to clear), with Maxed Primed Animal Instincts on my sentinel, and i knew there wasn't an enemy in sight, and yet the guy was filling the room with light balls?
I can promise you he wasn't shooting at any enemies.

[RagingShark-Shade]

vor 1 Minute schrieb ReaverKane:

The worse part is that most of those people are just doing that on purpose...
I've ran into several people using simulor with max fire rate just to fill the room with blinding light.
How do i know this? Because i was playing Volt Prime, on a low level area (press 4 to clear), with Maxed Primed Animal Instincts on my sentinel, and i knew there wasn't an enemy in sight, and yet the guy was filling the room with light balls?
I can promise you he wasn't shooting at any enemies.

Yes the Mirage just Started to Shoot after the Start with nearly Grakata Fire rate on nothing.... i just Tryed to run as fast as Possible away to Avoid this Dumb... uhm yea...

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

I never thought I'd live to see a complaint about Mirage and Simulor again. Is it that bad? I have been using Simulor more, but not as I did in the Mirasimulor times, so I can't really tell. I also don't see that meta, in the sense that half the community does it, returning at least as of now.

Is it that much powerful again? Or is it mostly the effects rather than power?

Edited April 14, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[RagingShark-Shade]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Hikuro-93:

Is it that much powerful again? Or is it mostly the effects rather than power?

for Low Level Junk is the Simulor okay but strong.... nah not at all.... some People just like to use this Thing to Piss People of with the New Added Effect particles, and effects in general...

The Bloom and over lighting is so Strong even my Fps droped to 20-30

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Just now, RagingShark-Shade said:

for Low Level Junk is the Simulor okay but strong.... nah not at all.... some People just like to use this Thing to Piss People of with the New Added Effect particles, and effects in general...

The Bloom and over lighting is so Strong even my Fps droped to 20-30

That's sad honestly. I find it hard to believe that there are people who take so much joy of hindering others that they will go at great lenghts for it... Like, choosing gear you don't even like but hey, as long as it pisses people off... But then I remember all I've seen troughout my life from petty things to great betrayal acts out of greed, and I realize, there are some truly S#&$ty people out there.

I like the effects but I can also see why they're a bit too much. So I wouldn't be against toning it down so that it isn't annoying.

[RagingShark-Shade]

im Fine if DE ads an Option to Turn some Weapon Effects down or Disable them Entirely... Cuz we don't need Kids in this game who think (yay just #*!% some People up by Spam Simulors over the map

[Gawizard]

8 hours ago, RagingShark-Shade said:

Mirage with 4 Specters Fires

Only 2 fire at the same time, i should know this. 
I havent tinkered with the graphical settings but maybe turn down particle effects.

 

[XaoGarrent]

Mirage is a clown, she's just trying to fill your life with joy and light. Or maybe deadlights.

honk honk

[(PSN)H_Obsidian]

Them mofos made me half blind already

[Benour]

Haha this weapon caused so much problems and hate really. Wish they never added such weapon in game. Its mechanics/damage/effects it all sucks donkey Ballas! 

[Yrkul]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

That's sad honestly. I find it hard to believe that there are people who take so much joy of hindering others that they will go at great lenghts for it... Like, choosing gear you don't even like but hey, as long as it pisses people off...

Welcome to MMOs. Not as bad as WoW or some of the PvP-centric asian MMOs, but we still get people, who get a kick out of annoying others.

Personally, I've started ignoring players, who do that sort of crap. We have enough particle effect pollution already, even with particle density turned to minimum. Just today, we had some clown turning my entire screen white, while we were fighting the Wolf. It is sad that I have to do that.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

24 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

Welcome to MMOs. Not as bad as WoW or some of the PvP-centric asian MMOs, but we still get people, who get a kick out of annoying others.

Personally, I've started ignoring players, who do that sort of crap. We have enough particle effect pollution already, even with particle density turned to minimum. Just today, we had some clown turning my entire screen white, while we were fighting the Wolf. It is sad that I have to do that.

Completely agreed. I do not like to fight with anyone, but when I see any discussion going sour and senseless I hit ignore. Because it's simply not worth it for some bored John Doe over the internetsies. But I also understand that some people have bad days, and I don't judge, so my "ignores" are mostly like "bans" of sorts, since later (days to weeks to months) I do un-ignore because I don't even remember what it was about and the person likely doesn't remember me either, and on the off chance we meet again we might have a better exchange than whatever happened the first time.

This is specially true with trading when I have my own prices for buying and selling and people do not want to make any deal, but start debating about how they disagree and why I should do things the way they think to be correct. Ffs, I play on PS4 and I won't debate anything on chat with a console controller, at the same time I'm losing potential deals going by in Trade Chat just to have a philosophical discussion on pricing, and for some dude that doesn't even want to trade or is just trolling or is trying to trick me into accepting his demands. That's why I hit ignore, to move on my merry way and be happy about, well, playing a game. At least I think that's the point of games, to be a complement to happiness and a stress reliever, since most of us are not paid to play.

Edited April 15, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Teridax68]

19 hours ago, RagingShark-Shade said:

im just tired of Mirage Player Runnin around and spam the Simulor and thats not the main problem.... i don't really care if people use this Dumpsterfire

but what starts kickin Ptsd in my Brain is the Big Nuke ball of Energy.... you cant see S#&$ through it if a Mirage with 4 Specters Fires this thing.... even my Friend who got one time a 

epileptical attack and even he Said this over lighting effect is too much.... pls Remove the Effect or turn it to a light level down

 

I think there are two parts to this problem:

• The Simulor in particular is a very visually noisy weapon, and any warframe firing it tends to create an overwhelming lightshow.
• Mirage's glorified damage buff is itself incredibly visually noisy by design, and creates a huge amount of clutter with no real justification.

So when you put the two together, even with the inbuilt visual controls on Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, you have one visually noisy effect multiplying another visually noisy effect, to a point where it's actively unpleasant to be around for many. This also begs the question as to why this needs to happen, because ultimately the net result doesn't seem to justify this kind of GPU-melting insanity. My suggestions to remedy this:

• Rework the Simulor weapons so that only one orb can be up at a time. The orb could then start out as a gravitational singularity from the get-go and become more powerful over time, with subsequent orbs resetting the singularity to reposition it (and alt fire detonating the orb as per normal).
• Change the visuals on Hall of Mirrors so that only the real Mirage fires anything, and the illusions instead just mirror her animations, without spawning additional projectiles. The damage buff should therefore be concentrated purely on her own weapon fire, which sounds boring, but would be functionally identical to what she does now.

So in the end, you'd be curbing two sources of major visual clutter from the game. There's probably more to this that could help, e.g. reworking/removing multishot as a stat, and perhaps doing a pass on a lot of explosions that tend to fill the screen with visual effects, but resolving the Mirage + Simulor problem once and for all could already help.

[Deadoon]

9 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

 

• Change the visuals on Hall of Mirrors so that only the real Mirage fires anything, and the illusions instead just mirror her animations, without spawning additional projectiles. The damage buff should therefore be concentrated purely on her own weapon fire, which sounds boring, but would be functionally identical to what she does now.

My only issue with this is that it removes the saturation fire effect, which in itself is a key aspect.

Yeah the simulor really needs some effect tuning, had an incident where I got stuck in a lobby with someone who did nothing but spam it with mirage, lost the mobile defense kuva flood due to nobody could see the objective and a butcher got to it. I was frost sitting on the thing and couldn't see them.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Deadoon

[RagingShark-Shade]

Well it Looks Like i'm not the Only one who Complains about the Useless overpowered Effects this thing Blasts around

[Gawizard]

12 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Change the visuals on Hall of Mirrors so that only the real Mirage fires anything, and the illusions instead just mirror her animations, without spawning additional projectiles. The damage buff should therefore be concentrated purely on her own weapon fire, which sounds boring, but would be functionally identical to what she does now

As a mirage main, no.

[RagingShark-Shade]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Gawizard:

As a mirage main, no.

i agree with him a bit... but Some Weapons Should be removed from Mirages quardruple Projectile Spawn in Hall of Mirrors... like... if you use Mirage... the Simulor will only Spwan one Ball.... not Five... the other 4 will remain unseen but are still there to hit the Targets

Edited April 16, 2019 by RagingShark-Shade

[Gawizard]

You guys know only 2 clones fire at once. yes, the simulor has a blinding effect but nerfing mirage would not stop people like that from existing, they'll just go back to switch teleporting.

[RagingShark-Shade]

No one said Nerfing her.... she is fine shes Really Good...  and nerfing her cuz one Gun is Annoying is wrong... only the spawning projectiles and effects should be turned a bit down so it does not bother that much to have suns on your Screen

[Gawizard]

3 minutes ago, RagingShark-Shade said:

i agree with him a bit... but Some Weapons Should be removed from Mirages quardruple Projectile Spawn in Hall of Mirros... like... if you use Mirage... the Simulor will only Spwan one Ball.... not Five... the other 4 will remain unseen but are still there to hit the Targets

I agree with the visual change though.

[RagingShark-Shade]

Jup nothing in Damage will change.... all is still the same... just overwhelming effects are reduced more

[Teridax68]

7 hours ago, Gawizard said:

As a mirage main, no.

As @RagingShark-Shade pointed out already, I am not suggesting any sort of damage nerf to Mirage: Hall of Mirrors would still provide the same total damage bonus, only it'd be concentrated on a single shot, rather than a burst of shots that all land at essentially the same place. Thus, Mirage's power would remain unchanged, but her visual clutter would be severely reduced. Everybody wins.

10 hours ago, Deadoon said:

My only issue with this is that it removes the saturation fire effect, which in itself is a key aspect.

This is true, though I think there's also a fundamental conflict between a weapon whose every shot is super noisy, and a weapon designed for saturation fire. When you put the two together, you have a weapon that can singlehandedly clutter the whole screen, which leads to the above problems. In this respect, perhaps it might be better for the Simulor and Synoid Simulor to each feature a different aspect of the original weapon: one of them (e.g. the Simulor) could keep the lingering gravitational singularities, but be limited to just one shot out, whereas the other could be used for spam-firing, at the cost of losing the alt fire, and having each shot only last a fraction of a second before exploding.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Teridax68

[MJ12]

20 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

As @RagingShark-Shade pointed out already, I am not suggesting any sort of damage nerf to Mirage: Hall of Mirrors would still provide the same total damage bonus, only it'd be concentrated on a single shot, rather than a burst of shots that all land at essentially the same place. Thus, Mirage's power would remain unchanged, but her visual clutter would be severely reduced. Everybody wins.

The visuals are kind of why Hall of Mirrors is just so much more satisfying than other damage buffs though. Seeing the storm of projectiles from your mirror-clones is visually impressive and satisfying. You're right that this wouldn't be a nerf and in fact given that Hall of Mirrors clone shots don't perfectly converge on your crosshair, might even be a buff in some situations, but it'd feel a lot worse to see just one projectile fly out instead of several, and part of making things satisfying in games isn't just mechanical ability but how things feel.

A better alternative, I feel, would be to change the Simulor's SFX so that after a certain cap, additional projectiles stop generating lighting effects. The black holes would still be there, they just wouldn't generate additional lighting and thus would be much less blinding.

[Teridax68]

11 hours ago, MJ12 said:

The visuals are kind of why Hall of Mirrors is just so much more satisfying than other damage buffs though. Seeing the storm of projectiles from your mirror-clones is visually impressive and satisfying. You're right that this wouldn't be a nerf and in fact given that Hall of Mirrors clone shots don't perfectly converge on your crosshair, might even be a buff in some situations, but it'd feel a lot worse to see just one projectile fly out instead of several, and part of making things satisfying in games isn't just mechanical ability but how things feel.

On one hand, I fully agree that the visuals play heavily into the fun factor. Additionally, it's all too easy on the forums to distance oneself too much and only look at what abilities do on paper, without getting the actual feel of how they play in-game, so it's important to remember how Hall of Mirrors feels to play. On the other hand, even with HoM in its current state, I still don't really feel it's all that interesting an ability: for sure, it's a visual spectacle, and that much looks nice, but in the end it doesn't really modify or enhance gameplay, so much as tack on a damage buff and a lightshow to regular movement and shooting. My experience with Mirage may not be the same as everyone's, but even then, I still think it would benefit her if she had an ability that was beautiful to look at, but that also genuinely provided gameplay, and so without creating too much visual clutter. 

Quote

A better alternative, I feel, would be to change the Simulor's SFX so that after a certain cap, additional projectiles stop generating lighting effects. The black holes would still be there, they just wouldn't generate additional lighting and thus would be much less blinding.

This could certainly help limit the Simulor's problems, but even then, saturating the screen with black holes would itself still create a lot of visual clutter. It wouldn't be quite as bad as those black holes also giving the player epilepsy with all of the lighting VFX, but it would still likely be far from ideal, and would still contribute to a larger overall problem where there's just too much crap going on. Warframe's a surprisingly well-optimized game, but a lot of its content, including a lot of recent content e.g. Profit-Taker, has graphic elements that have too much presence relative to their impact, and often overstay their welcome (e.g. explosions that leave behind a lot of smoke or the like for a good moment). The Simulor is one of the oldest and most egregious examples of this, and I'm not sure its intended spammy gameplay really excuses, let alone works well with its fairly complex and innately long-lived projectiles.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Teridax68