Two. We have two this week. :')

[Valiant]

The friends/clanmate thing isn't hard - people in recruiting are hosting games and you just add each other. This complaint doesn't have much ground.

What's a 'hard' is doing 40 waves or 60 minute survivals because it's so tedious and mindnumbing. So much so I've decided I'm not doing such challenges again. Should at least be halved.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Valiant

[000l000]

Il y a 9 heures, MagPrime a dit :

Playing for loot can be fun.  

Joys of subjectivity. 

Playing for loot only isn't. Fun isn't that subjective unless you think that torturing animals is legit fun !

If people were actually having fun while farming/grinding or just playing they wouldn't be complaining that much. Getting some stuff is a goal, you can have a temporary satisfaction but no fun. Hence most people not even caring about other people ingame which is kind of sad since this game is online and fun has definitely something to do with social interactions.

If so many do have fun, why are they that toxic, frustrated, complaining all day, not waiting for you at the lift, insulting you for weird reasons ingame, trying to kill everything in the entire map before you even if that forced him to play a few tiles away etc ?

Seriously, these days people don't have that much fun, it's pretty much the same story in every so-called farming online game - i'm pretty sure many even get burnout in the process. I've worked on a thesis about games for a year and being toxic in a game is just a complete non sense. Traditional games were actually teaching you something about how to behave among other people, now we get quite the opposite in online games. 🙄

I spend some time in strategy games forums and there's absolutely no toxicity, people aren't farming for no reasons, everything they do ingame is for pure fun, that's why one could blame most f2p games, they replaced pure fun mechanics and satisfying coop game by competitive only crap and dull loot system. I don't mind loots but if there's only one boring way to get it, one'd better not care then.

Edited April 22, 2019 by 000l000

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, 000l000 said:

Playing for loot only isn't. Fun isn't that subjective unless you think that torturing animals is legit fun !

If people were actually having fun while farming/grinding or just playing they wouldn't be complaining that much. Getting some stuff is a goal, you can have a temporary satisfaction but no fun. Hence most people not even caring about other people ingame which is kind of sad since this game is online and fun has definitely something to do with social interactions.

If so many do have fun, why are they that toxic, frustrated, complaining all day, not waiting for you at the lift, insulting you for weird reasons ingame, trying to kill everything in the entire map before you even if that forced him to play a few tiles away etc ?

Seriously, these days people don't have that much fun, it's pretty much the same story in every so-called farming online game - i'm pretty sure many even get burnout in the process. I've worked on a thesis about games for a year and being toxic in a game is just a complete non sense. Traditional games were actually teaching you something about how to behave among other people, now we get quite the opposite in online games. 🙄

If you seriously believe you get to define fun for people, then we have nothing to discuss.   Especially since you made the leap between loot gathering to animal abuse. 

Good day to you. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Nope. As I explained in my feedback, starting from Rank 0, to even get your first handful of Creds to spend on mundane Alerts stuff, you need to get rank 3, i.e. 30,000 Standing. A single week's worth of acts amounts to 7,000 from Dailies, 21,000 from Weeklies, and 15,000 from Elites. That means you only get 28,000 Standing from Dailies and Weeklies alone. Discounting Fugitives, which is a meagre and unreliable source of Standing, that means you need at least one Elite just to hit that 30,000 mark.

And the gaps to the next bunch of Creds after that is not consistent: from Rank 3 to 6, it's another 30,000, then 60,000 to Rank 12, before repeating the 40,000 Standing gap to Ranks 16, 20 and 24, before a big 70,000 gap before the Prestige ranks starts giving you Creds again.

Again, as I mentioned in my feedback, we're talking about a system that was meant to replace Alerts, and thus should be compared as such. Alerts were designed to deliver items on a daily and weekly basis. Nightwave should be analysed within the same time frame.

Assuming that it's a normal week, 7k from dailies 21k from weeklies. That's 28k standing. Multiply by 10 weeks and you're on tier 28. The last credits in the first 30 ranks are at tier 24 I believe. 4 elites at 5k each will give you the 20k to see you to tier thirty. 

Now this means that if you want to get the first batch of credits in the first week and do just one elite, you wouldn't need to do another the next week. Reason 28k + 5k = 33k.

Adding to the non-elites for the next week gives 33k + 28k = 61k.

Doing 1 elite challenge per week along with all of the non-elite challenges would put you at 330k in 10 weeks (that's all of the first 30 plus 3 additional "prestige" ranks). 

So your claim requiring people to do "at least one Elite a week just to have enough Creds to spend on anything," is false. And that's even before we take fugitives or the extra partial week that we've known that they weren't counting for a long time, into account. 

And so we're really clear on something alerts were on an hourly basis. And the vast majority of players were not able to be online 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 

So, again, your math is obviously off. You need to redo your calculations. 

 

[000l000]

il y a 4 minutes, MagPrime a dit :

If you seriously believe you get to define fun for people, then we have nothing to discuss.   Especially since you made the leap between loot gathering to animal abuse. 

Good day to you. 

People already did that, you just didn't know it. Not discussing about stuff is also quite common in such forums quite ironically. Good luck using words or theory no one ever defined nor studied, it would be a really small world. 😒

Edited April 22, 2019 by 000l000

[KnossosTNC]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Assuming that it's a normal week, 7k from dailies 21k from weeklies. That's 28k standing. Multiply by 10 weeks and you're on tier 28. The last credits in the first 30 ranks are at tier 24 I believe. 4 elites at 5k each will give you the 20k to see you to tier thirty. 

Now this means that if you want to get the first batch of credits in the first week and do just one elite, you wouldn't need to do another the next week. Reason 28k + 5k = 33k.

Adding to the non-elites for the next week gives 33k + 28k = 61k.

Doing 1 elite challenge per week along with all of the non-elite challenges would put you at 330k in 10 weeks (that's all of the first 30 plus 3 additional "prestige" ranks). 

So your claim requiring people to do "at least one Elite a week just to have enough Creds to spend on anything," is false. And that's even before we take fugitives or the extra partial week that we've known that they weren't counting for a long time, into account. 

And so we're really clear on something alerts were on an hourly basis. And the vast majority of players were not able to be online 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 

So, again, your math is obviously off. You need to redo your calculations. 

 

Again, the Standing gaps are not consistent. From Rank 3 to 6, you would be right, I concede on that. But from Rank 6 onwards, if you were to rely only on Dailies and Weeklies, you wouldn't get any Creds on weeks 3 or 4 (89,000 and 117,000 Standing), get Creds for the next three weeks (145,000, 173,000, 201,000), miss out for another week (229,000), get more Creds the next (257,000), before facing a 43,000 Standing gap before the Prestige Ranks. This means players need to do at least some of the Elites each week to guarantee that they will get Creds to spend every week.

Extra partial week should simply count as a full week. As for fugitives, they yield 150 Standing a pop, assuming no mishaps - just yesterday one of the Fugitives died from the shockwave when I summoned an Archgun, giving me no Standing - or 300 on Orb Vallis when Thermia Fractures are under control. Their spawn is pure RNG, which means how much Standing you get from them depends on many variables, such as a player's daily playtime and mission count. Therefore, I have ignored them for simplicity.

Agreed. It's not an exact match, time frame wise: Alerts actually operate on a 30 minute to 2 hours basis, while Nightwave operates on a daily and weekly basis. That said, efforts should still be made to compare and contrast both systems over as similar a time frame as possible, and since a week is just seven days, which in turn is just 24 hours stacked together, that's the narrowest time frame available where they both can be compared fairly, thus my choice to compare them on a daily and weekly basis.

Edited April 22, 2019 by KnossosTNC

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Again, the Standing gaps are not consistent. From Rank 3 to 6, you would be right, I concede on that. But from Rank 6 onwards, if you were to rely only on Dailies and Weeklies, you wouldn't get any Creds on weeks 3 or 4 (89,000 and 117,000 Standing), get Creds for the next three weeks (145,000, 173,000, 201,000), miss out for another week (229,000), get more Creds the next (257,000), before facing a 43,000 Standing gap before the Prestige Ranks. This means players need to do at least some of the Elites each week to guarantee that they will get Creds to spend every week.

Your math is worse than I thought. 

You now propose that getting 33k standing per week is needed to be sure to get some creds each week. But you acknowledge that there aren't any creds on offer from tier 7 - 11.

33x3 = 99k so you still don't get any creds that third week unless you did every single elite in the first three weeks. 

 

On the other hand doing absolutely no elite challenge but completing the non-elites for 10 weeks will still earn you every single cred offering in the first 30 ranks.

So again your math is still off. You really should recheck your calculations at some point. 

[(PSN)ChAoTiCxDiAbLo]

DE please. Stop adding tedious challenges that have to require friends or clanmates. Most days I just wanna play by myself after a long day at work. Also, please make the challenges worth while to do. For example, 60mins (1 hour) to play survival. I'm sorry, but as busy my schedule is and the standing you are offering me (5,000). Uh, sorry I'm not going to waste my time on one gamemode that is offering very little.

[-_Highlander_-]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)ChAoTiCxDiAbLo said:

DE please. Stop adding tedious challenges that have to require friends or clanmates. Most days I just wanna play by myself after a long day at work. Also, please make the challenges worth while to do. For example, 60mins (1 hour) to play survival. I'm sorry, but as busy my schedule is and the standing you are offering me (5,000). Uh, sorry I'm not going to waste my time on one gamemode that is offering very little.

would you be happy if it said 

- Public -

.. Warframe is trying to bring people together ..

atleast they try

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ChAoTiCxDiAbLo said:

I'm sorry, but as busy my schedule is and the standing you are offering me (5,000). Uh, sorry I'm not going to waste my time on one gamemode that is offering very little.

Then don't?

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

1 hour ago, (PS4)death404 said:

As an aside, anyone know if derelict defense counts yet?

Yeah Derelict/DarkSector Survival counts as Survival, Derelict/DarkSector Defence counts as Defence, and Kuva Survival counts as Survival. You can totally do that special versions of them, I did the Kuva Survival during week 2 to get both missions at once.

 

1 hour ago, BombtailsTheFox said:

While is true that the 40 wave defense and 1 hour survival are painful, the challenge also allows you to complete them with guildmates.

If I don't have friends what makes you think I have clanmates? Lol xD

I have a tiny ghost clan with myself and a couple irl friends who almost never play. And considering the comment from Steve for doing Railjack was that solo ghost clans would totally work, it kinda points out that they're aware there's quite a few players like me.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Your math is worse than I thought. 

You now propose that getting 33k standing per week is needed to be sure to get some creds each week. But you acknowledge that there aren't any creds on offer from tier 7 - 11.

33x3 = 99k so you still don't get any creds that third week unless you did every single elite in the first three weeks. 

 

On the other hand doing absolutely no elite challenge but completing the non-elites for 10 weeks will still earn you every single cred offering in the first 30 ranks.

So again your math is still off. You really should recheck your calculations at some point. 

Wait? Are you arguing this to support your point? That doesn't really make it any better. Getting the little bit of Wolf Cred from the first 30 ranks still puts your earning at woefully inadequate compared to what you can earn from alerts, especially for newer players. Consider that a single MR0 Melee weapon costs a whole stack of 50 Wolf Cred. That's one of those Melee weapons per ~1.5-2weeks on average.

You're totally missing the point that these are rewards that need to be quickly and easily accessible to newer players and they're now anything but, hidden behind a massive wall of ridiculous and wasteful tasks xD

P.S. that makes what were already really terrible weapons even worse at this point x'D

Edited April 22, 2019 by (NSW)Sniperfox47

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ChAoTiCxDiAbLo said:

DE please. Stop adding tedious challenges that have to require friends or clanmates. Most days I just wanna play by myself after a long day at work. Also, please make the challenges worth while to do. For example, 60mins (1 hour) to play survival. I'm sorry, but as busy my schedule is and the standing you are offering me (5,000). Uh, sorry I'm not going to waste my time on one gamemode that is offering very little.

Ok, well, this challenge isn't for you then, so don't play it. 

I personally enjoy them and would like them to stick around.  Granted I'd like them to change it so that's it's a cumulative thing because I get some players connections or systems can't handle thay long but still, I want to keep the "with friends or clanmates" aspect of the challenges. 

[_JustSomeone_]

I was gonna agree with you OP but after you talked about "time wasted" i rather not.

 

It's way to easy to go recruit chat and join someone for such task (you don't do it all the time). DE just needs to reduce the time because 1hr survivals are a no no for some (not for me 😛 ). 

Edited April 22, 2019 by _JustSomeone_

[Alexandrious]

Is this a git gut thread? 😕

[Aldain]

Just now, Alexandrious said:

Is this a git gut thread? 😕

Not yet, but give it a few minutes and the usual crowd will be around to boast about how good they are and how lazy everyone else is.

[KnossosTNC]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Your math is worse than I thought. 

You now propose that getting 33k standing per week is needed to be sure to get some creds each week. But you acknowledge that there aren't any creds on offer from tier 7 - 11.

33x3 = 99k so you still don't get any creds that third week unless you did every single elite in the first three weeks. 

 

On the other hand doing absolutely no elite challenge but completing the non-elites for 10 weeks will still earn you every single cred offering in the first 30 ranks.

So again your math is still off. You really should recheck your calculations at some point. 

Erm... ...that's exactly what I said in the original post you quoted?

11 hours ago, KnossosTNC said:

As I explained in the comprehensive Nightwave/Wolf of Saturn Six feedback I submitted a while back, I think one of DE's mistake is integrating Nightwave and WoS6 too much, requiring people to do at least one Elite a week just to have enough Creds to spend on anything, and pressuring players who are not in position to be participating in WoS6 to do so anyway.

And again, Alerts operated on a short time scale, not 10 weeks, hence why I focused on Nightwave's operation on the time scale of a single week.

[sleepychewbacca]

Just now, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Make solo ones too then

An Elite Solo Survival Challenge? 

I would love that, and I would love witnessing the salt from that. 

[MagPrime]

Just now, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

No thanks.

Make solo ones too then

Aren't all the other challenges the solo ones? 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Not yet, but give it a few minutes and the usual crowd will be around to boast about how good they are and how lazy everyone else is.

In fairness the whiners usually show up first so in reality, the git gud crowd is less vocal.

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

Not yet, but give it a few minutes and the usual crowd will be around to boast about how good they are and how lazy everyone else is.

Tedious, definitely. An annoyance, or something to just do, depending on how one views it. 

There's nothing skilled about lasting 1 hour in an endless mission. Only how good you are at making it trivial. 

However, I have been on that 'gitgud' side, so I will definitely refrain from doing the same now.  

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

An Elite Solo Survival Challenge? 

I would love that, and I would love witnessing the salt from that. 

Better give 10k standing for that.  1 hour solo survival shouldn't be a measly 5k. 

I still want the ability to reroll challenges though.  Or even just let them reroll as a solo challenge.  This would give players who are #sololyf the ability to change a challenge in their favor. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by MagPrime

[_JustSomeone_]

1 minute ago, sleepychewbacca said:

An Elite Solo Survival Challenge? 

I would love that, and I would love witnessing the salt from that. 

I'm sure we would get a  "i can't do 1hr SOLO, please DE remove it " thread

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

 

Wait? Are you arguing this to support your point? That doesn't really make it any better. Getting the little bit of Wolf Cred from the first 30 ranks still puts your earning at woefully inadequate compared to what you can earn from alerts, especially for newer players. Consider that a single MR0 Melee weapon costs a whole stack of 50 Wolf Cred. That's one of those Melee weapons per ~1.5-2weeks on average.

You're totally missing the point that these are rewards that need to be quickly and easily accessible to newer players and they're now anything but, hidden behind a massive wall of ridiculous and wasteful tasks xD

No I've long advocated a rebalancing of the costs of the items in the creds store. That's totally separate and aside from the fact that we don't need even a single alert to complete 30 tiers in the time given. 

What you see as wasteful tasks are pretty much the things that newer players need to do anyway. Kill enemies using x = learn to mod. Do x type of mission = learn to play the basic mission types. Open relics, collect credits, mark resources, loot lockers... These are our bread and butter, and newbs need to figure all of them out. 

2 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

And again, Alerts operated on a short time scale, not 10 weeks, hence why I focused on Nightwave's operation on the time scale of a single week.

And again, no regular alert lasted for a week. 

Like I said, and showed, your math is demonstrably wrong regardless of where you are trying to put your goalposts. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, _JustSomeone_ said:

I'm sure we would get a  "i can't do 1hr SOLO, please DE remove it " thread

probably by the OP of this one.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Zilchy

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Erm... ...that's exactly what I said in the original post you quoted?

This gets its own special reply. 

What you said was:

"As I explained in the comprehensive Nightwave/Wolf of Saturn Six feedback I submitted a while back, I think one of DE'smistake is integrating Nightwave and WoS6 too much, requiring people to do at least one Elite a week just to have enough Creds to spend on anything, and pressuring players who are not in position to be participating in WoS6 to do so anyway."

 

22 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Your math is worse than I thought. 

You now propose that getting 33k standing per week is needed to be sure to get some creds each week. But you acknowledge that there aren't any creds on offer from tier 7 - 11.

33x3 = 99k so you still don't get any creds that third week unless you did every single elite in the first three weeks. 

So, again. No.