Leveling weapons as a Saryn in ESO

[-QUILL_PETER-]

5 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Mirage

It should be noted however that with Hall of Mirrors active, all affinity goes to the frame.

[Anduvriel]

1 hour ago, Test-995 said:

Saying "It doesn't work in PuG" and "Nothing wrong with exp distribution" at the same time seems bit strange.

Where did i write it doesnt work in PuG?It works when you play excatly as PuG is intended to be played when everyone is doing his/hers around 1/4th part of the killing. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Anduvriel said:

Where did i write it doesnt work in PuG?It works when you play excatly as PuG is intended to be played when everyone is doing his/hers around 1/4th part of the killing. 

If this was true Trinity wouldn't exist. Harrow wouldn't exist either. Support is a thing you know? It's unreasonable to expect a single target DPS to kill as much as a trash clearer and even more unreasonable to force the supports to do 1/4

[CephalonDizzy]

If you have an equinox, it's an option if you don't want to play support framea. Her day form's 4th ability (maim) builds up using both yours and your allies' damage, so you don't have to constantly be nuking everything to help keep the efficiency up.

Better yet have two equinoxes build off each other like a perpetual motion machine from hell.

[ThumpumGood]

5 hours ago, Kerthis said:

Well yes I see it I was under the impression that some (like 25%) still goes into weapons.

However. It is still odd. How could I rank up a weapon 0-20 doing 90% of the damage  solely with warframe abilities?

Reguardless of whether or not it's 0 or 30, the mechanic still sends the percentage to the item. So if you take weapons to level, take 1 good weapon and your 0 weapon and leave the 3rd weapon spot empty. Or as Saryn, since you really arent using weapons, just the weapon you want to level. That way, all of the weapon XP goes to the weapon you want it on.

[Anduvriel]

43 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

If this was true Trinity wouldn't exist. Harrow wouldn't exist either. Support is a thing you know? It's unreasonable to expect a single target DPS to kill as much as a trash clearer and even more unreasonable to force the supports to do 1/4

The topic of this thread is affinity share in Solo queue in eso. Bare that in mind. I will try to put my point more clearly this time :). 

Are you going as support on PuG eso without knowing who will come and without any chance to do your 25% kill share, counted as simaris's 25% required efficiency? This is a mission with a goal to meet. Who do you support than, what if noone comes? What happens when 4 people like you meet? Pure supports are for premades, if you go pure ev trin without any kill potential to PuG , my point is you are a leech even if it works out cause there will be a carry that does your share of killing. There are weapons with which you can kill mobs, support frame just means abilities. You dont need saryn, volt nor equinox nor any other carry to do 8 waves of eso easily. Not the same efficiency and exp of course, but the mission will be a success. 

Solo queue is designed having in mind a semi equal kill distribution, than it works excatly as you would think it should regarding exp distribution, 25% of Total exp goes to the thing you deal your damage with, if its a weapon 25% of that 25% goes to frame, 75% of the total mission exp is evenly distributed among all your slots, thats your teamkills. And my point is that this is a good thing and shouldn't be changed. 

OP wants to go premade nuke meta dps build into solo queue and get the same results as written above. It is not possible cause his choice of frame and build for that frame, extreme range/power doesn't allow other teammates to do their share. His share should be 25ish is 90ish, so almost everything goes to "what is killing" which is his frame saryn. It is his choice of build and playstyle that changed the PuG party into a carry party which is not a playstyle the game is built around. Which is still good in my opinion. 

Changing this game mechanic would have consequences. If experience gained through my frame goes to my weapons in the same distribution as if my teammates would do the kill i dont need anyone anymore.. I dont need a premade, nor a team in solo queue i will just take saryn and level everything all by myself. You dont even want to know how many people would chose to just play solo all the time.. Do you want that? Where would be the tipping point, 25% of exp, 50%exp? 

It is a coop game, it is built around "take any frame you like and join 3 others and do the mission". It should and usually is built around just that, only pure endgame should be catered to a different aproach, but there is none now to be honest (eso is not endgame imo, maybe heavy eidolon Hunt 5x3+ still not really).

Meta and efficiency is our choice. If you want to cheese a gamemode taking something clearly overpowered for it expect to have to think about aspects you normally wouldnt, like affinity share. If your friend would have equinox and got 40% kills with yours 50% you would level those weapons at around the same time.

I don't see anything broken here besides saryn ofc, but we love our opie frames, its wf's "thing" and a different topic.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Anduvriel said:

The topic of this thread is affinity share in Solo queue in eso. Bare that in mind. I will try to put my point more clearly this time :). 

Are you going as support on PuG eso without knowing who will come and without any chance to do your 25% kill share, counted as simaris's 25% required efficiency? This is a mission with a goal to meet. Who do you support than, what if noone comes? What happens when 4 people like you meet? Pure supports are for premades, if you go pure ev trin without any kill potential to PuG , my point is you are a leech even if it works out cause there will be a carry that does your share of killing. There are weapons with which you can kill mobs, support frame just means abilities. You dont need saryn, volt nor equinox nor any other carry to do 8 waves of eso easily. Not the same efficiency and exp of course, but the mission will be a success. 

Solo queue is designed having in mind a semi equal kill distribution, than it works excatly as you would think it should regarding exp distribution, 25% of Total exp goes to the thing you deal your damage with, if its a weapon 25% of that 25% goes to frame, 75% of the total mission exp is evenly distributed among all your slots, thats your teamkills. And my point is that this is a good thing and shouldn't be changed. 

OP wants to go premade nuke meta dps build into solo queue and get the same results as written above. It is not possible cause his choice of frame and build for that frame, extreme range/power doesn't allow other teammates to do their share. His share should be 25ish is 90ish, so almost everything goes to "what is killing" which is his frame saryn. It is his choice of build and playstyle that changed the PuG party into a carry party which is not a playstyle the game is built around. Which is still good in my opinion. 

Changing this game mechanic would have consequences. If experience gained through my frame goes to my weapons in the same distribution as if my teammates would do the kill i dont need anyone anymore.. I dont need a premade, nor a team in solo queue i will just take saryn and level everything all by myself. You dont even want to know how many people would chose to just play solo all the time.. Do you want that? Where would be the tipping point, 25% of exp, 50%exp? 

It is a coop game, it is built around "take any frame you like and join 3 others and do the mission". It should and usually is built around just that, only pure endgame should be catered to a different aproach, but there is none now to be honest (eso is not endgame imo, maybe heavy eidolon Hunt 5x3+ still not really).

Meta and efficiency is our choice. If you want to cheese a gamemode taking something clearly overpowered for it expect to have to think about aspects you normally wouldnt, like affinity share. If your friend would have equinox and got 40% kills with yours 50% you would level those weapons at around the same time.

I don't see anything broken here besides saryn ofc, but we love our opie frames, its wf's "thing" and a different topic.  

Then you realize Premades and PuGs share the same EXP formula...

Not to be an ass about this but it seems really weird to say that such an assumption even exists in any context.

[IceFire909]

yea its just straight up "if your frame ability gets a kill, 100% xp goes to the frame". only weapon kills do the weapon/frame split

[Anduvriel]

6 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Then you realize Premades and PuGs share the same EXP formula...

Not to be an ass about this but it seems really weird to say that such an assumption even exists in any context.

Thats why meta for premade is 2 dps in eso not one and 2dmg supports.

Game is designed around PuG, not around premade, nor carry.

Meta premade is always based on how it works the best. When you take half of the meta XD it might not work anymore in some regards. 

[MARALOHK]

The solutions I stopped at were these:
1. If I want to level quickly I will bring friends who can nuke at a similar speed with me (with matchmaking set friends only to not disturb others). Since I tend to play Saryn for ESO, and since multiple Saryns don't play well together, I bring friends who like to play other nukes (range Volt, Equinox, etc).
If your Saryn isn't tuned correctly, or their nukes aren't tuned correctly, they may end up just prolonging your spores and skew the damage too much in your favor; if this happens, you just ease off a bit, and let them take over for a wave or two.

2. If my goal is just to level eventually, I will run public and get what I get, running a full 8 zones. If the squad is competent my weapons will be leveled by 8. If not, oh well.
But by running to 8 I get chances for the Blazing Step ephemera, and other players are happy no matter how long they are going; whether the are going 3 to level weapons or complete nightwave, or 8 for rewards or focus.

[Zelmen]

8 hours ago, Kerthis said:

Now, I know how experience distribution works and how I get less exp to my weapon by spamming Saryn's 1 and 4

8 hours ago, Kerthis said:

Yes You are right and now I have a better picture of it. Thank You for Your input.

All the comments are all over the place so for you and anyone else looking for TL;DR

XP is on Kill, point capture, or objective completion

- Your frame kills it > 100% to frame + xp shared with others
- Weapon kills it > 50% to frame, 50% to killing weapon + Xp share with others
- Pet Kills it > 100% to pet + your frame is looped in with others on xp share
- Other player kills it> you get x% of shared xp split by weapons and frame BUT pet gets its own share of xp not split with frame or weapons. Why soloing to level pets it a pain in the A it needs the kill or outside xp share. Pets are basically their own party member that does not get any xp from you directly.

 

Fastest way to level "item":

Leach to level pets (Please bring buff frame so you can help but still leach!!)
Use abilities to kill to level frames faster
Kill with weapons to level weapons faster.

[spirit_of_76]

8 hours ago, Kerthis said:

However. It is still odd. How could I rank up a weapon 0-20 doing 90% of the damage  solely with warframe abilities?

when I play ESO as a Valk I often have about 15-30% of the damage (I have never done less than 5% even with a saryn and a volt on the team) and a similar percentage of kills this will give you enough xp to rank a single weapon in a few waves.  this combined with the bonus xp for completing a mission makes lets you level things quickly.  I will state that when I take stuff to level in ESO I bring 2 weapons (one is a built and capable melee) it takes about 6-8 waves depending on the skill/quality of the nuke frame.  some times it will take longer especially if I am doing closer to 40-60% of the damage.  

[Shadowh4nd]

13 hours ago, Kerthis said:

Please tell me how can I level my weapons efficiently (in ESO I mean) without resorting to leeching coz I never been a leech, I dont like leeching. It feels bad and unsatisfying.

This is basically my disagreement with standard and elite SO. It is unfair, it punishes the nukers. It rewards the leeches. Here is a shameless plug to my post on the topic:

 

[PhoenixFury]

5 hours ago, Anduvriel said:

The topic of this thread is affinity share in Solo queue in eso. Bare that in mind. I will try to put my point more clearly this time :). *Snip*

You're wrong, though. I suppose I'll explain.

If you go into ESO as a support Trinity and nobody else is a DPS frame, then it doesn't matter if you can't pull your weight because nobody can.  If you're an EV Trin and there is an Equinox, congratulations, Equinox will now kill everything better than Saryn can.  You'll look terrible, because you might get 6% damage, but as someone who actually does this, let me say that without EV your Equinox will not be popping Maim nearly as often, having to rely on Zenurik and being at the mercy of parasite eximi, a common feature of infested, which she essentially can kill by sneezing otherwise.  With infinate energy however, everything that dies contributes damage to everything dying again.  If you have two, congratulations you win forever.  They aren't carrying you, because without you they can't do nearly as much killing.  The extra killing they do is technically your killing.

Hell without you everybody is at the mercy of parasite eximi. Except maybe Saryn, and that's only because spores is a cheap ability, as is her four with streamline.  Still she's going to struggle keeping her 3 up while spamming spores on unspored enemies and occassionally miasma-ing.  If you have a Mesa, well Mesa should've probably chose another frame, but she can 4 at will as long as Simaris allows it.  Saryn is popular in ESO not because she's good at killing things (I mean, she is, so yeah.) but because her abilities are pretty self-sufficient and not hard on energy.  She can also use rage and get her HP back reliably with her own kit (regenerative molt).

Point is, Trinity's a force multiplier.  She multiplies force by allowing you to use your abilities freely, and I do mean freely. She also keeps you alive, gives you DR, and if you have quick thinking, even better.  She isn't supposed to kill 25% of the enemies, although she probably could if you actually let her, but you're Saryn/Equinox/Mesa/Whatever and doing eighty billion damage to everything in line of sight and most things that aren't.

So no, Trinity isn't a DPS frame.  Obviously.  Unless she's got a Catchmoon anyway.

Edited April 23, 2019 by PhoenixFury

[spirit_of_76]

1 hour ago, PhoenixFury said:

You're wrong, though. I suppose I'll explain.

If you go into ESO as a support Trinity and nobody else is a DPS frame, then it doesn't matter if you can't pull your weight because nobody can.  If you're an EV Trin and there is an Equinox, congratulations, Equinox will now kill everything better than Saryn can.  You'll look terrible, because you might get 6% damage, but as someone who actually does this, let me say that without EV your Equinox will not be popping Maim nearly as often, having to rely on Zenurik and being at the mercy of parasite eximi, a common feature of infested, which she essentially can kill by sneezing otherwise.  With infinate energy however, everything that dies contributes damage to everything dying again.  If you have two, congratulations you win forever.  They aren't carrying you, because without you they can't do nearly as much killing.  The extra killing they do is technically your killing.

Hell without you everybody is at the mercy of parasite eximi. Except maybe Saryn, and that's only because spores is a cheap ability, as is her four with streamline.  Still she's going to struggle keeping her 3 up while spamming spores on unspored enemies and occassionally miasma-ing.  If you have a Mesa, well Mesa should've probably chose another frame, but she can 4 at will as long as Simaris allows it.  Saryn is popular in ESO not because she's good at killing things (I mean, she is, so yeah.) but because her abilities are pretty self-sufficient and not hard on energy.  She can also use rage and get her HP back reliably with her own kit (regenerative molt).

Point is, Trinity's a force multiplier.  She multiplies force by allowing you to use your abilities freely, and I do mean freely. She also keeps you alive, gives you DR, and if you have quick thinking, even better.  She isn't supposed to kill 25% of the enemies, although she probably could if you actually let her, but you're Saryn/Equinox/Mesa/Whatever and doing eighty billion damage to everything in line of sight and most things that aren't.

So no, Trinity isn't a DPS frame.  Obviously.  Unless she's got a Catchmoon anyway.

 I as a Valk an EV Trin is less helpful that a bless trin or an Oberon.   I only need energy once outside of host migrations.  while if you are going to ESO for leveling do take a buffer of some kind if you won't be able to kill stuff.  even for a saryn, an EV trin is nice same goes for a bless trin or Oberon.  the worse option is the AFK rhino where all you do is cast iron skin and chill.  

personally, for leveling non-melee weapons in ESO I take my standard Valk and play as normal.  her armor buff is good for saryns with the melee buff lasting for the entire run as long as I get melee kills.  

[Leyers_of_facade]

To be honest, if you have a friend who is willing to rank things up with you. I would advice sleeper stealth adaro runs.

Sure... it might not be as efficient as ESO would be (this would depend on how prepared the both of you are), but at least both you and your friend would not feel bad about the affinity gained.

That being said, probably try finding squads in recruit, getting together a full squad "for focus" including the typical 2 dps, 1 buffer, 1 supp shouldn't be that hard.

[SenorClipClop]

21 hours ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

It should be noted however that with Hall of Mirrors active, all affinity goes to the frame.

This is true, for anything the clones kill. When weapon-levelling, stick to a high-Duration Eclipse build.

[Lutesque]

20 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

If this was true Trinity wouldn't exist. Harrow wouldn't exist either. Support is a thing you know? It's unreasonable to expect a single target DPS to kill as much as a trash clearer and even more unreasonable to force the supports to do 1/4

Harrow is actually a pretty crappy Support because his greatest enemy are his own Team Mates stealing his Kills... 

 

[Dishonored]

Question:
if enemies die to spores after you shot them with your weapons

will the xp goto your warframe or your weapon ?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 minutes ago, .OwOkin. said:

Question:
if enemies die to spores after you shot them with your weapons

will the xp goto your warframe or your weapon ?

Your weapon. It's whatever it dies to.

[Anduvriel]

12 hours ago, PhoenixFury said:

You're wrong, though. I suppose I'll explain.

If you go into ESO as a support Trinity and nobody else is a DPS frame, then it doesn't matter if you can't pull your weight because nobody can.  If you're an EV Trin and there is an Equinox, congratulations, Equinox will now kill everything better than Saryn can.  You'll look terrible, because you might get 6% damage, but as someone who actually does this, let me say that without EV your Equinox will not be popping Maim nearly as often, having to rely on Zenurik and being at the mercy of parasite eximi, a common feature of infested, which she essentially can kill by sneezing otherwise.  With infinate energy however, everything that dies contributes damage to everything dying again.  If you have two, congratulations you win forever.  They aren't carrying you, because without you they can't do nearly as much killing.  The extra killing they do is technically your killing.

Hell without you everybody is at the mercy of parasite eximi. Except maybe Saryn, and that's only because spores is a cheap ability, as is her four with streamline.  Still she's going to struggle keeping her 3 up while spamming spores on unspored enemies and occassionally miasma-ing.  If you have a Mesa, well Mesa should've probably chose another frame, but she can 4 at will as long as Simaris allows it.  Saryn is popular in ESO not because she's good at killing things (I mean, she is, so yeah.) but because her abilities are pretty self-sufficient and not hard on energy.  She can also use rage and get her HP back reliably with her own kit (regenerative molt).

Point is, Trinity's a force multiplier.  She multiplies force by allowing you to use your abilities freely, and I do mean freely. She also keeps you alive, gives you DR, and if you have quick thinking, even better.  She isn't supposed to kill 25% of the enemies, although she probably could if you actually let her, but you're Saryn/Equinox/Mesa/Whatever and doing eighty billion damage to everything in line of sight and most things that aren't.

So no, Trinity isn't a DPS frame.  Obviously.  Unless she's got a Catchmoon anyway.

I dont think i am wrong:)

I know what trinity does. It is my beloved frame and when raids were a thing i was almost always trin in the squad. 

The discussion here as i understand it, is not about what a meta premade builds roles are and how affinity works in such groups. What you wrote is totally true for a premade group, equinox, saryn and volt when built for top damage have usually 45% eff and they almost dont work without ev. Even my 4 forma saryn build for eso premade would suck without her. My volt and rhino cant cast even once without her. 

The point i am making is when you go eso PuG with trin Ev with just 0lvl skana with no mods you are counting that a damage dealer will come for you to support, wheater he needs your support or not, which in my opinion is the definition of a responsible leech. The responsible part is cause you try to put something to the table. Your are generating energy, but it turns out that the carry is meme strike nekros, or there is no carry, everyone in your team just use ignis or melee. You dont give them anything tbh that would contribute much to the kill count which is the mission goal, they would do around the same damage without you, compare it to taking ev to a spy mission. That is my point. There is no lobby, you dont know who will come, if you go PuG you should be able to do your part of the mission counted as 25% of simaris required efficiency (that is not much tbh, any frame with a decent weapon can do that) as in every other mission or you are leeching (which i dont really consider as something really bad).

That 25% kill distribution is what is intended and a situation where affinity distribution works perfectly. If you leech and there is one ability carry he wont level his weapons like OP wrote.

OP would want that to change i dont really see a reason for it. And i see it could harm current state of the game more. 

[Anduvriel]

17 minutes ago, .OwOkin. said:

Question:
if enemies die to spores after you shot them with your weapons

will the xp goto your warframe or your weapon ?

If the enemy dies to spores tick its ability, all goes to frame. Doesn't matter how much life the tick will take. 

If your shot will kill (take out the remaining hp) it goes to weapon and frame evenly.

You can easily tell when what happens initally cause when spores kill they do not spread themselves, when weapon/something else kills, spores spread. That is why its hard to spread spores on low level enemies. They kill them to fast and dont spread. 

It kinda starts to work crazy by itself later, cause of spore detonation spreading, thats the chain reaction you can usually see. You can ignite it with your 4, miasma which is considered something else for the spores spread. 

[Kerthis]

2 minutes ago, Anduvriel said:

If the enemy dies to spores tick its ability, all goes to frame. Doesn't matter how much life the tick will take. 

If your shot will kill (take out the remaining hp) it goes to weapon and frame evenly.

You can easily tell when what happens initally cause when spores kill they do not spread themselves, when weapon/something else kills, spores spread. That is why its hard to spread spores on low level enemies. They kill them to fast and dont spread. 

It kinda starts to work crazy by itself later, cause of spore detonation spreading, thats the chain reaction you can usually see. You can ignite it with your 4, miasma which is considered something else for the spores spread. 

It works as a "last hit" mechanic of srots right?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

8 minutes ago, Kerthis said:

It works as a "last hit" mechanic of srots right?

Yes

[Lakais]

Honestly, the whole "passive XP gain" thing is iffy to me. I like having it, but I feel filthy when I end up farming through it. When I re-level gear I do go into pub matches (I usually solo) but I still USE the things I am leveling. First time levels I tend to try and solo them for the reason that I want to actually know what the thing is like.