How Night wave burned out my full clan.

[Kaimera_Prime]

How Night wave burned out my full clan.

 

At the start of night wave like most I was exited to see what it would bring. This was followed by the horrid realization that to get anything of real interest to me I would have to grind through 27 levels of what I would consider near pointless items (bar the forma) to most people that have played for more than 6 months.

 

As I am a guild leader of what at the time was a clan of at least 20-30 people playing at peak times and most of my clan being new to the game. I enjoy teaching new people the details of the game and openly recruited new players

 

Night wave destroyed this. The grind required to get the useful items was a grind so bad that even with my more experienced members helping new players this was a massive toll on the clans leadership. 60 min missions that would be ruined by one ass hole basically meant having me and my officers having to spend hours on end in 60 min missions with lower MR ranked members.

 

All of this has resulted I an immediate and massive drop off of people playing the very week the rank 30 was hit by most members. This includes myself. Night wave is not new content its just daily missions linked to a massive grind. There is no faction or syndicate behind it. hell all of the items you can buy with wolf credits could have been set as rewards for a lotus specific syndicate that could have had things added to it with each new Warframe that was released Alt helms for example.

 

I hope that with new content that comes out my clan will recover from the burn out from this event but I fear that a lot of the new players will not return thanks to the grind that was basically mandatory to get the umbra forma that every one of the veteran members are after and the cosmetics of the wolf armor that the full event was based around.

Also Nora night got massively annoying after the 1st day. i am not "the once and future bad ass" for doing a dam emote. this needs a mute option placed on the night wave window. It just drives people up the wall when she talks now.

 

TLDR Night wave has killed my clan through burnout.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Kaimera_Prime

[FlusteredFerret]

 

No burnout here...

 

[Jiminez_Burial]

You could have skipped those 60min missions entirely and still achieved the 30 ranks.  Seems like the burnout is because you either didn't hear about only needing 60-70% completion of the challenges, or you're a victim of FOMO which comes down to an issue with you.

[Kaimera_Prime]

lucky you. try running 60 min missions 6 - 7 times each night for a week because new players get one ass hole that uses a life support at 59 min and then leaves just to troll. missions like this make new players just say F*ck it to warframe.

[Genitive]

14 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

Also Nora night got massively annoying after the 1st day. i am not "the once and future bad ass" for doing a dam emote. this needs a mute option placed on the night wave window. It just drives people up the wall when she talks now.

Try disabling hint transmissions in the options.

I don't have that many problems with nightwave, it's mostly positive, but I can agree that some challenges do seem like work.  We're gonna have to wait until the next series to see what changes.

[Shalath]

For reasons that escape me a lot of people became completely fixated on doing every single challenge when DE made it very clear that you could reach maximum level by only doing about 60% of them. That didn't even take into account the points you get for killing the refugees that randomly show up.

I play solo so I ignored all of the friend/clan challenges, I have no interest in sitting in missions for an hour or more and haven't done sorties in ages so those were also ignored. I missed one of the Fortuna fishing challenges because I didn't have the rep and I think I only did one of the bounty challenges. I've pretty much only done the challenges I could be bothered with and I'm currently just shy of rank 28. Do I care if I don't get the Umbral Forma? Not really.

If you completely ignored Nightwave and just played as you normally did you would have ended up with enough creds for the cred rewards and with minimal effort I'm pretty much on-track for the Umbral Forma as well so any burnout was down to your clan trying to complete everything.

[Dhrekr]

2 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

lucky you. try running 60 min missions 6 - 7 times each night

Try telling people they don't need to run the 60 min missions to get every reward.

Try telling people that they should be a little bit selective and they shouldn't burn themselves out just for the sake of obtaining a reward.

[LarryYourWaiter]

I, like many people, tried to do every single challenge.  Meaning I hit rank 30 like 3 or 4 weeks ago or something.  I’ve since stopped chasing them entirely and even simple dailies just passed by without me doing any of them.  I now know that for the next season, I don’t have to do every challenge.  I can be much more relaxed at my approach.

[Yxivi]

6 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

lucky you. try running 60 min missions 6 - 7 times each night for a week because new players get one ass hole that uses a life support at 59 min and then leaves just to troll. missions like this make new players just say F*ck it to warframe.

Are these from random squad? I mean, if this happened to me, I'll be looking for some people I know that are serious on completing the task instead of hoping for randoms to not mess up the run. You already have a clan, so why not run with your clannies? O,o
Warn them beforehand that any trolling will get them kicked from the clan. I just don't know how this kept happening to you.

[Kaimera_Prime]

5 minutes ago, Yxivi said:

Are these from random squad? I mean, if this happened to me, I'll be looking for some people I know that are serious on completing the task instead of hoping for randoms to not mess up the run. You already have a clan, so why not run with your clannies? O,o
Warn them beforehand that any trolling will get them kicked from the clan. I just don't know how this kept happening to you.

the main reason we ended up doing the 60 min missions is because some of our new player tried to do it with randoms and got burned by trolls. this had the knock on effect of all the others not wanting to risk doing them and getting it ruined by trolls. none of my clan members trolled the others anything like that i would of kicked them from guild.

12 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Try telling people they don't need to run the 60 min missions to get every reward.

Try telling people that they should be a little bit selective and they shouldn't burn themselves out just for the sake of obtaining a reward.

i know this and i admit that i did not have to burn it all asap that is my own issue. but if new players ask can someone help them a good clan leadership will help them not just tell them to go do something else because it is a hassle for them. my clan recruits new player and helps them. i know i would not of kept playing warframe had i had not been helped when i started playing. new player experience is trash still in this game.

[FlusteredFerret]

33 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

lucky you. try running 60 min missions 6 - 7 times each night for a week because new players get one ass hole that uses a life support at 59 min and then leaves just to troll. missions like this make new players just say F*ck it to warframe.

Why didn't you do those with reliable clan members who you could trust not to screw you over?

 

[Kaimera_Prime]

see my last post

[Dhrekr]

2 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

but if new players ask can someone help them a good clan leadership will help them not just tell them to go do something else because it is a hassle for them

Yes, I know how burnout works. There is no reason to explain it. It is well documented in the annals of psychology.

Anyway, the way I help new players is explaining to them how to pick their fights and select the goals they want to achieve and the missions they should be picking, in a way that makes them not burn out, and that makes me not burn out.

By that, I do not mean that I don't like extended survivals. I like them in a good amount. But this attitude of "whenever there's somebody who fancies doing a one-hour run, we have to help" is what burned out your full clan.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

Glad I haven't done much in Vallis, because it's fun doing these challenges learning new things along the way. 

[Kaimera_Prime]

the main issue with nightwaves rewards is that the vets only want the last 3 rewards 27 - 30 and the new players its got decent rewards but wolf credits lock them behind the grind for getting the actual wolf credits. now like most new players they see this and want to do all the missions so they can get what they want alt hems ect. but then after rank 30 its 15 creds per level this is kind of meh after the new players have been getting forma / kuva / catalysts. ect every level before that. for players past the 6 months to a year part its rank 30 then. "well no point in playing anymore nothing to do now"

[Yxivi]

28 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

the main reason we ended up doing the 60 min missions is because some of our new player tried to do it with randoms and got burned by trolls. this had the knock on effect of all the others not wanting to risk doing them and getting it ruined by trolls. none of my clan members trolled the others anything like that i would of kicked them from guild.

i know this and i admit that i did not have to burn it all asap that is my own issue. but if new players ask can someone help them a good clan leadership will help them not just tell them to go do something else because it is a hassle for them. my clan recruits new player and helps them. i know i would not of kept playing warframe had i had not been helped when i started playing. new player experience is trash still in this game.

Alright, I understand your point now. However, I still think the burnout is mainly caused by yourself and your clanmates. Yes, helping new players is awesome. I love helping new players too but try to weigh it in whether is it really wise to carry players on certain things.
Take the 60 mins survival. I know lots of new player will struggle with this but then again, the challenge was never meant for them. It's an elite challenge, obviously created for the geared players looking for a challenge. Another thing I would consider is my own sanity. Is this healthy for me to keep doing this mission over and over whenever someone needs help to complete it? IDK, maybe if I wanna help I would setup schedule dates for the runs and anyone interested can reserve for the slot (this is how my guild operate on my other game when it comes to carrying members) and officers take turn in carrying members so no one lose their mind helping the entire clan.😕
I'd say you handled the "clan helping" thing a little bad that's why it burned you and your members out.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Yxivi

[FlusteredFerret]

19 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Yes, I know how burnout works. There is no reason to explain it. It is well documented in the annals of psychology.

Anyway, the way I help new players is explaining to them how to pick their fights and select the goals they want to achieve and the missions they should be picking, in a way that makes them not burn out, and that makes me not burn out.

By that, I do not mean that I don't like extended survivals. I like them in a good amount. But this attitude of "whenever there's somebody who fancies doing a one-hour run, we have to help" is what burned out your full clan.

Yeah - it would have been more helpful (and beneficial for everyone) to explain that there is some content that simply isn't for newbies.

If they're sensible they would understand that. If they throw a hissy fit, they're probably not the sort of people you want in your clan.

 

[HexOmega111x]

Doesn't look like a nightwave specific issue. You burned out yourself by giving nightwave too much importance. Just tell the newbies that this is not something they are supposed to do. And if you realy want to help them be prepared to face the consequences. 

I don't say that Nightwave is perfect but at some points it is the responsability of the payers themself to make the proper choices. 

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Yeah - it would have been more helpful (and beneficial for everyone) to explain that there is some content that simply isn't for newbies.

Its not the content we care about. Its the resources. 

They hid the thing that most newbies want and vets don't way past the rank 30 mark of night Wave....

 

[Yxivi]

7 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

the main issue with nightwaves rewards is that the vets only want the last 3 rewards 27 - 30 and the new players its got decent rewards but wolf credits lock them behind the grind for getting the actual wolf credits. now like most new players they see this and want to do all the missions so they can get what they want alt hems ect. but then after rank 30 its 15 creds per level this is kind of meh after the new players have been getting forma / kuva / catalysts. ect every level before that. for players past the 6 months to a year part its rank 30 then. "well no point in playing anymore nothing to do now"

I have to agree at this part tho. The nightwave reward is backwards. The wolf creds should have been offered at the lower tiers since it's the newbies that need it most. They definitely need to fix the reward for this system in order to be a proper replacement for alerts.

[Kaimera_Prime]

people stating that the burn out is my fault are correct i fully admit it. i could of handled it better. but it also burned out the new players i think nightwave failed in a way other warframe content has not because it had a time limited items i.e the umbra forma and wolf armour. and from what i know and please correct me if i am wong it has not been confirmed that these will return on a semi reguler basis.

[krc473]

11 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

and from what i know and please correct me if i am wong it has not been confirmed that these will return on a semi reguler basis.

DE has said previously that they are looking at bringing them back in future Nightwave sets as ‘prestige rewards’. I don’t know if this is confirmed or just the intention.

 

Just to add: people are mentioning just doing 60-70% of the challenges. This is totally incorrect. You need 60% of the total points each week to reach rank 30. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by krc473

[Kaimera_Prime]

nightwave should have been setup like a syndicate were you do missions to get rep to afford items that are static in a rewards table like the other syndicates

 

[Kaimera_Prime]

4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

DE has said previously that they are looking at bringing them back in future Nightwave sets as ‘prestige rewards’. I don’t know if this is confirmed or just the intention.

 

 

question is when and how they would do this it took years for old event items to be added into plauge star rewards for the plains event

[(PSN)Limorkil]

As always, all I hear is people who have the ability and inclination to do all Nightwave Challenges telling others that doing all the challenges is wrong and unnecessary.  I never see anyone go “I couldn’t do all the challenges and had a hard time with it but that’s perfectly ok with me. “ it’s like rich people telling poor people that all they have to do to be happier is buy x, y and z. 

I hate Nightwave for multiple reasons, one of which is that it dangles challenges and rewards in front of newer players like candy and then says “Nah ah - these are not for you” like some $&*^ in a bar who pulls the cash away when the girl behind the bar reaches for it.  

Personally, I think the more extreme challenges need to be gated in some way, either by MR or quest/star chart progression. That way people like me don’t see them and assume they can do them.