How Night wave burned out my full clan.

[EvilChaosKnight]

11 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I fully agree that the alert system could coexist in some fashion with Nightwave, even if they stripped the helmets and mods from it.

Yeah. I mean even 300 oxium or 5 kitty codes were good enough for me. And stuff like control modules, orokin cells and neural sensors were quite handy for newer people since said alerts often appeared on early progression planets. I mean asking for a taxi was an option of course, but still.
I'd say, however, that auras and weapons should be available in both.

11 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Making a weekly Rep cap would just be swapping one issue for another and honestly I'm not sure how to go about designing a system that could both provide incentive to play and prevent burnout, at least not completely.

Well, the rep cap idea comes with having all challenges available at once. And I mean ALL of them. No exceptions. So out of vast assortment of things NW wants you to do there's bound to be something you'd actually be doing that week on your own accord. Thus making NW and its points the "little extra" it was presented it as beforehand. The cap itself is supposed to only affect weeklies so that players wouldn't get the idea of having to do absolutely everything each week. Instead, people would be free to pick what they want or just play normally and gather the points passively.

11 minutes ago, Aldain said:

As for the Cred shop, creds need to be more plentiful imo even if they have to increase the price of the potatos to accomadate. They could also stand to reduce to cost of the filler weapons since many new players would use those for MR while other players would ignore them completely.

I remember someone suggested that creds should be given on each lvl up regardless of the tier reward. Could work I guess? Potatoes aren't supposed to be cheap, I get that. At the same time, alertium and helmets feel a bit too gated atm.

Edited May 1, 2019 by EvilChaosKnight

[Alexandrious]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Im still confused on how you "burn out" on nightwave. None of these challenges are that hard to do,  only one that comes close is the kuva surv but the right comp of warframes make that a cake walk and are people really "burning out" on doing a sortie, doing some fishing and picking up mods?

Its quite simple. A person burns out on nightwave by feeling like they have to do all the weeklies. They have to do each daily. When in reality, all they gotta do is a about 60 percent of it all. Less if lucky with three stooge spawns, and just cherry pick the easy quick ones to do like sorties, or capture or spy, while avoiding critical ones like 1 hour survival, find 3 caches 3 times, etc. 

But ppl come to forums to complain for the sake of complaining. What can ya do?

I mean. Look at these 2 guys. They just want it all handed to them on the second or third week and barely much to do it. Then what? They do something else in game? No. They go off and play Hello Kitty island adventure, or maple story 2. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Alexandrious

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

I remember someone suggested that creds should be given on each lvl up regardless of the tier reward. Could work I guess? Potatoes aren't supposed to be cheap, I get that. At the same time, alertium and helmets feel a bit too gated atm.

Honestly it is confusing that they cost 75 cred when any player could get 20 plat from some relics or selling ayatans, I get that they don't want them easily farmable as they are are a source of income, but as it stands now it is easier for almost anyone to get 20 plat from other players than 75 cred from the system.

[EvilChaosKnight]

Just now, Aldain said:

Honestly it is confusing that they cost 75 cred when any player could get 20 plat from some relics or selling ayatans, I get that they don't want them easily farmable as they are are a source of income, but as it stands now it is easier for almost anyone to get 20 plat from other players than 75 cred from the system.

Yea, there's alost a huge disparity here.
Potato - 20pl or 75cred. Alright sounds reasonable.
Alt helmet - 75pl but 35cred?

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Well, the rep cap idea comes with having all challenges available at once. And I mean ALL of them. No exceptions. So out of vast assortment of things NW wants you to do there's bound to be something you'd actually be doing that week on your own accord. Thus making NW and its points the "little extra" it was presented it as beforehand. The cap itself is supposed to only affect weeklies so that players wouldn't get the idea of having to do absolutely everything each week. Instead, people would be free to pick what they want or just play normally and gather the points passively.

But what about people that cant hit the cap for a week? Would the missed standing transfer over to the next week, so if you do 15k one week you'd have a cap of 65k the next week and so on? If not I'd prefer either an open ended system with 10 to 11 weeks worth of tasks or the system we have now where we easily see the tasks for the week and know exactly what needs to be done.

I think I prefer what we have now eitherway because we know everyone needs the same task done during the week. With all tasks available it would be an utter mess for 10-11 weeks in all content that is included in the tasks. Imagine 10 weeks of someone always needing hidden caches, x number of syndicate missions done, or 3 ESO maps finished. It would ruin game modes for long periods of time.

[Aldain]

3 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Yea, there's alost a huge disparity here.
Potato - 20pl or 75cred. Alright sounds reasonable.
Alt helmet - 75pl but 35cred?

Overall the only reasonably priced items on there are the Potatos, Niatin and to some extent the mods, its quite odd why there seems to be no easily viewable value to the creds.

Nevermind that the alt helmets also usually need extracts so that can bump the price up to 50 cred for one. (iirc)

Edited May 1, 2019 by Aldain

[EvilChaosKnight]

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But what about people that cant hit the cap for a week? Would the missed standing transfer over to the next week, so if you do 15k one week you'd have a cap of 65k the next week and so on? If not I'd prefer either an open ended system with 10 to 11 weeks worth of tasks or the system we have now where we easily see the tasks for the week and know exactly what needs to be done.

Yea, transferring the standing isn't going to work I suppose. Hm. Well, there also was an idea floating around which worked kinda like the current one but with a very important exception. The player chose when to start and when to finish the season they are on. So you could pick a line of, well work I suppose, but there was no DE with a massive sword of FOMO hanging over your head. You pick you season, each week you get different tasks as we do now, then you call it quits when you feel like it and pick a different line. Or don't. I'd be more than fine with such system as well. Then they could add more "seasons" don't the line.

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think I prefer what we have now eitherway because we know everyone needs the same task done during the week.

That is true. Personally, I think the problem comes from the combination of a relatively stiff chore list and limited time frame. Not clearly defined time frame to boot. So if one of these is gone, the overall experience should be much better.

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Imagine 10 weeks of someone always needing hidden caches, x number of syndicate missions done, or 3 ESO maps finished. It would ruin game modes for long periods of time.

Sorry, if I wasn't clear enough. I mean the idea was to have all challenges already active at all times. So, like, you go kill a spider for a toroid or something. Challenge completed. You went to level things in SO/ESO? Challenge completed along the way. So it's not invasive to say. You'd have about 40+ challenges (or how many different ones do we have atm?) but only need to do so many of them to hit the weekly cap. Then on Sunday all challenges and caps are reset. People wouldn't be just locked into the same limited thing for weeks to come, obviously. That sounds horrible. XD

Edited May 1, 2019 by EvilChaosKnight

[FlusteredFerret]

1 hour ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Basically.

So, what's would people think about this?

Since NW was originally advertised as "earn stuff by just playing the game" I feel like the chore list concept by itself needs a rework.

Yeah - a lot of them do feel very "make work" and more of a chore than anything.

But outside of creating new missions / content, I don't see many ways to make them hugely more interesting or different. The old Alerts just required you to complete normal mission nodes (albeit specific ones). Nightwave at least allows you to choose which ones you want to do, in order to complete the challenges.

Considering NW was just meant to be a replacement for Alerts, I don't see DE wanting to put a lot of effort into creating new content, for something that is just meant to be a new version of an old system.

Its kinda sucky, but at least its not hard to do and you can still get your rewards without a huge amount of effort. That said, I hope the devs manage to work out something a bit more interesting for the next series.

 

[Alexandrious]

Anyway since the whiners cant post in the right place. This is where this thread needs to go. 

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/1219-feedback/

You're welcome.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Alexandrious

[Shadow-Spawn]

I used to play Warframe on a daily basis for a lot of fun hours each day for hundreds of days in a row - then the grindy nightwave system was launched without asking the gaming community for feedback before launching it in the first place. It was to replace the quick alert system that had been successful for 6 years because of reasons.

Today I don't even bother to get the daily login rewards and I honestly cannot remember the last time I played this game.

Nightwave have sucked all the fun out of playing Warframe - I am not surprised that your clans are empty - your members are most likely busy playing other games that are still fun to play.

DE needs to take a good look at the game and ask themselves will this change make the game better or not - next ask their gaming community if they agree - and lastly implement the change perfectly. And standby to roll it back quickly, if it does not work as intended.

And use a public test server to catch the biggest issues before launching it to their customers.

Deliveries and communication from DE has been so bad lately, that I have mentioned numerous of times, that they must have hired members from the Anthem team.

[Methanoid]

11 hours ago, Shalath said:

For reasons that escape me a lot of people became completely fixated on doing every single challenge when DE made it very clear that you could reach maximum level by only doing about 60% of them. That didn't even take into account the points you get for killing the refugees that randomly show up.

I can see why for newer players, they will always want to do as many as they can simply because they wont know what the other weeks challenges will be, there will be a lot they cant do or wont have access too so they have no choice but to do as many as they can because next week they may be excluded from some/many, and the same the week after, and the week after.  They just dont know, so it certainly leads to fomo.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

11 hours ago, Shalath said:

For reasons that escape me a lot of people became completely fixated on doing every single challenge when DE made it very clear that you could reach maximum level by only doing about 60% of them. That didn't even take into account the points you get for killing the refugees that randomly show up.

I play solo so I ignored all of the friend/clan challenges, I have no interest in sitting in missions for an hour or more and haven't done sorties in ages so those were also ignored. I missed one of the Fortuna fishing challenges because I didn't have the rep and I think I only did one of the bounty challenges. I've pretty much only done the challenges I could be bothered with and I'm currently just shy of rank 28. Do I care if I don't get the Umbral Forma? Not really.

If you completely ignored Nightwave and just played as you normally did you would have ended up with enough creds for the cred rewards and with minimal effort I'm pretty much on-track for the Umbral Forma as well so any burnout was down to your clan trying to complete everything.

You say 60% like it means you can skip certain requirements, only to have the requirements repeat. So if you don't want to do the 60m survivals (both kuva and regular) that means you missed out on 20k standing since they were repeated. Similarly, the with friends or clan mates challenges exclude many players that don't want to socialize; and again these challenges are repeated. Then there are challenges like profit-taker or a hydrolyst that are behind large grind walls and prevent many new players from doing them.

So in the end the 60% completion requirement is very misleading since you are not skipping 40% of the challenges, but instead are skipping closer to 25% since many challenges are repeated.

Edited May 1, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

28 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

I used to play Warframe on a daily basis for a lot of fun hours each day for hundreds of days in a row - then the grindy nightwave system was launched without asking the gaming community for feedback before launching it in the first place. It was to replace the quick alert system that had been successful for 6 years because of reasons.

Today I don't even bother to get the daily login rewards and I honestly cannot remember the last time I played this game.

Nightwave have sucked all the fun out of playing Warframe - I am not surprised that your clans are empty - your members are most likely busy playing other games that are still fun to play.

DE needs to take a good look at the game and ask themselves will this change make the game better or not - next ask their gaming community if they agree - and lastly implement the change perfectly. And standby to roll it back quickly, if it does not work as intended.

And use a public test server to catch the biggest issues before launching it to their customers.

Deliveries and communication from DE has been so bad lately, that I have mentioned numerous of times, that they must have hired members from the Anthem team.

They asked the player base if they wanted a battle-pass type system on twitter before NW released, the response was an overwhelming "No" (like 80%).  They knew it wasn't wanted but didn't care.  The entire point of these timed "season" events is to create a sense of urgency to drive engagement.  It seems it also has the side effect of creating anxiety and resentment of the game, since people don't exactly like having their neurotransmitter-mediated reward systems manipulated for profit.  Who'd of known? lol

Will they address the types of chores on the list? Probably.  Will the system that is causing this rift be altered or removed? Doubtful.  They knew a large chunk of the players wouldn't like it before it launched and saw the backlash it received upon launch, yet they've ignored all of it aside from the types of missions or mission variables attached to each chore. So I wouldn't expect it to get much better, just a less repetitive chore list

[SordidDreams]

9 hours ago, Xavori said:

The challenges should be that, challenges.  Make it something like 'Finish a spy mission in less than 10 minutes without setting off any alarms" or "Get a 3x melee multiplier and hold it for 5 minutes".

The problem with that is that it's virtually impossible to come up with a challenge that can't be trivialized and cheesed. Spy would be easily done by just taking an invisible frame, and melee combo is trivial to hold indefinitely by just beating on the the invincible turrets in the kuva fortress. And sure, you could patch that out, but then people would just use something else, like nidus' tether or a melee riven with -100% damage or whatever. You'd end up doing nothing but patching out challenge exploits.

Edited May 1, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Methanoid]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)segulibanez65 said:

They asked the player base if they wanted a battle-pass type system on twitter before NW released, the response was an overwhelming "No" (like 80%).  They knew it wasn't wanted but didn't care.  The entire point of these timed "season" events is to create a sense of urgency to drive engagement.  It seems it also has the side effect of creating anxiety and resentment of the game, since people don't exactly like having their neurotransmitter-mediated reward systems manipulated for profit.  Who'd of known? lol

Will they address the types of chores on the list? Probably.  Will the system that is causing this rift be altered or removed? Doubtful.  They knew a large chunk of the players wouldn't like it before it launched and saw the backlash it received upon launch, yet they've ignored all of it aside from the types of missions or mission variables attached to each chore. So I wouldn't expect it to get much better, just a less repetitive chore list

A lot of devs do it tho, trend followers, reactive not proactive.

[White_Matter]

Nightwave is the worst thing that happened to this game and pretty much killed the games only appeal ; casual gameplay.

So I'm not surprised to see people get burned out while doing basically a homework, a tedious task that can turn anything you like into something you hate.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Sorry, if I wasn't clear enough. I mean the idea was to have all challenges already active at all times. So, like, you go kill a spider for a toroid or something. Challenge completed. You went to level things in SO/ESO? Challenge completed along the way. So it's not invasive to say. You'd have about 40+ challenges (or how many different ones do we have atm?) but only need to do so many of them to hit the weekly cap. Then on Sunday all challenges and caps are reset. People wouldn't be just locked into the same limited thing for weeks to come, obviously. That sounds horrible. XD

Aslong as they balance all tasks equally so people cant cheese it I really wouldnt mind such a change to nightwave. And aslong as they manage a carry-over system for weekly standing so you can catch up (which currently seems to be the major issue with current nightwave aswell).

[iGnome21]

The cred shop is infuriating, it sucks so much.

Aside the few weapons skin there is absolutely nothing worth getting.

Why putting potatoes in there and no forma bp, this would be useful now, since those are required for NW tasks.

Why is there a weekly rotation in the first place. I supposed after reaching prestige that THE WHOLE DAMN SHOP would be accessible at all time to spend the creds. No, still rotating.

Why can't we buy the wolf weapon parts with creds, and even his mask, since his RNG appearance is such BS, that even when he pops hes most likely to drop a useless mod we have hundreds of already.

And the last but not least, creds EXPIRATION at the end of this season is total nonsense. Make it convert to the next season currency 1:1 value but simply don't erase it. It would be the last straw for exhausting farm to go to waste. Afaik the creds are not made of stoopid ARGON and don't disintegrate by themselves.  DE (lack of) logic.

[EmberStar]

4 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Well done for completely missing the point. 

 

Which was that it is completely possible to play games WITHOUT hardcore grinding and getting burned out.

I haven't even been half-a$$ing Nightwave. More like quarter-a$$ing it. Just playing a few hours here and there and I'm still at rank 21...which is a lot farther than I thought I'd get.

Just making the time to do the 65% of challenges every week, or adjusting your play schedule to make sure you average 65% overall would be enough to get you all the way.

Hardcore grinding and burnout is the result of poor planning. If you're serious about completing events, a bit of forward planning can save you a lot of grief.

 

Also OP and his clan brought the problem on themselves by trying to carry newbies through Elite challenges.

 

IE, they were trying to be the reliable clan members helping other clan members through the one hour "with friends" challenges. 

And it's kind of difficult to do "forward planning" when the challenges reset every week.  I know I had to do a ton that I really didn't want to do, or enjoy at all.  Why?  Because I had no way of being sure Real Life wouldn't interfere (I have a job where I'm frequently unable to go online for over a month, with little or no advance notice.)  Or that the challenges later wouldn't be even *worse.*  So every week it was possible to do everything, I had to do everything possible.  Because the only rewards I was interested in (the cosmetic options) required the *largest* investment of time.  The costume parts and maybe the novelty mods were literally the only things I even slightly cared about getting.  The rest was just irrelevant stuff that happened on the way there.

But go ahead, I'm sure nothing is wrong, everything is fine.  It's not a problem FOR YOU, so clearly it can't be a problem for anyone else.

[EmberStar]

3 hours ago, BDMblue said:

Why would you help your clan members do a 60 min after 60 min game.... just let them go to pub chat and find there own team. 

 

I mean maybe your clan clan has no research and the only way you keep people is this but that’s your own problem. Should have just joined a full research one and been done with it.

Right.  Because it's completely UNACCEPTABLE that people should form a clan around actually *liking* each other, or having shared interests, or similar playtimes or mission preferences.  And what a bunch of *losers* they are for trying to help other clan members with anything, amIright?

(Note:  The preceding comment contains Sarcasm, which is known to the state of California to be too complex a concept for some people to understand.  It should not be taken literally.  If you took it literally, seek help.)

[EmberStar]

3 hours ago, (PS4)segulibanez65 said:

Hopefully it changes enough to alleviate this; I adore the core of this game and it would be a shame to just drop it entirely, but we'll see I guess. Burnout is normal in WF but it seems to have hit a lot of people at the exact same time, and I don't think its a coincidence.  Even the Youtuber Brozime stated Nightterrors (and especially the ridiculous ephemera grind) partially contributed to his burnout and hiatus, and he makes a living playing the game, so...

I'm pretty sure I've seen videos from DKDiamantes and Tactical Potato recently saying something similar.  Nightwave is grindy, tedious, and they ended up grinding until they burned out to be sure they got through it.  Since as content partners they sort of felt compelled to finish it so they could make videos giving their opinions on the rewards and which ones they felt were worth getting or not.  Trying to finish content as fast as possible is kind of their job, in a sense.  Which probably only added to the frustration and tedium.  Especially if they got to the end and realized it *wasn't* worth it, and all they get out of it is whatever ad revenue from YouTube for their videos.

[iGnome21]

Three messages in a row that could be edited into one separated with the quotes.

 

Call the spam Police !

[EmberStar]

7 minutes ago, iGnome21 said:

Three messages in a row that could be edited into one separated with the quotes.

 

Call the spam Police !

One.  I have no idea how to do that.  Whatever UI is involved is neither obvious nor intuitive.

Two.  I was reading through the thread and responded at the points I felt were appropriate.

Three.  Each time I replied, I assumed that was the end of my contribution.  I don't normally scour a thread for every possible post I can reply to.  Mostly because I assume basically no one reads anything I have to say in the first place.  There's no evidence you did, since your only comment was to complain that I made to many posts.

[Kaimera_Prime]

4 hours ago, BDMblue said:

Why would you help your clan members do a 60 min after 60 min game.... just let them go to pub chat and find there own team. 

 

I mean maybe your clan clan has no research and the only way you keep people is this but that’s your own problem. Should have just joined a full research one and been done with it.

i already addressed this but some people got trolled by people using life support at 59 min after this no one in clan wanted to do any of them out side of our clan.

also my clan has a fully built dojo with all research for every item completed hell we even have rooms dedicated solely to art people want to create.

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Pengu_Imperialus said:

I put a recommendation in the feedback forum that they should include a progress bar that gives a better Idea of how much total they need, and the average amount per week they need to achieve max rank.  Part of the problem, if you dig down on the complaints, is people didn't understand they didn't need to kill themselves to max out.

this would of been really helpful hell even it DE stated that as long as you do all the low level missions you would still get rank 30 or something like that.

 

to people saying they don't have burn out good for you. i wish i did not. what i do know is that i have every frame in game bar excal prime every weapon that's worth having that is not just MR fodder and i had all this before nightwave and was logging on still and having fun my clan was active and happy we had no issues with our members. after nightwave the player drop off was near immediate. The one and only thing that most people that have been playing for a while wanted from night wave was the umbra forma had that been put on the shop for plat i sure as hell would not of bothered with nightwave. 

as for people saying its not much of a grind well no its not its just mind numbly boring. i have been playing games since the zx spectrum and comadore 64 i know what grind is the wait time for each week is like having to wait 40 min for a tape drive to load up your C64 game and the nightwave content is like finding out the game you spent 40 min waiting to load  is ET the Extra-Terrestrial by atari.  nightwave stops you logging onto the game to have fun and adds daily missions of tedium causing a mental burn out. the nightwave shop is worse than the old alert system as well way worse.

 

 

[Luciole77]

same here...all entire clan burnedout from this new nightwave system. Nobody has enought credits to buy catalysts/nitain and others...

 

Yeah...this sytem sux!