Need help modding for sorties

[Fayth2567]

Greetings,

I need some help modding my Warframe and weapons for sorties.

I currently use rhino prime as my Warframe because of durability.

corrosive projection for aura

redirection, armored agility, rush, thief’s wit, vitality, intensify,

I get very confused when I see builds without defensive mods, wondering how they survive. I barely survive when the enemies are between lvl 60-100

 

For weapon I use Opticor vandal

with serration, mangliant force, convulsion, split chamber, vilgante armaments, speed trigger, shred

And the bane mod for that faction

Please and thank you 😊 

[Zelmen]

Rhino doesn't need defensive mods due to iron skin. Iron Skin gets stronger with strength and armor stat mods. So a lot of builds focus on that or they go duration / strength for buffing roar.

I don't run opticor vandal so I can't help maxing out there. Best thing to do is look up videos they explain why they use the stats they do. If you just find images it won't help you grow as a player.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Zelmen

[Lutesque]

5 hours ago, Fayth2567 said:

For weapon I use Opticor vandal

with serration, mangliant force, convulsion, split chamber, vilgante armaments, speed trigger, shred

And the bane mod for that faction

The Opticor Vandal is good... but only when it Crits.... and with a Crit Chance of only 60% when using Point Strike (70% with Critical Delay) you can see how this a problem problem because you're just not getting consistent performance. 

In Any case Opticor  Vandal deals most of itz damage as Puncture Damage.... and the puncture Status Effect is kinda Rubbish hence why using both Malignant Force and Bane Mods on it isn't as effective as it should be.

The other issue is Shred... im sure by now you've noticed That Opticor Vandal's projectile explodes when it comes into contact with a surface.... and as from what I was told Weapons that explode on contact can't penetrate through anything so Punch Through mods Have no effect.

So then how do you build it Then ?

Well Cits are definitely a must... so you should definitely have Point Strike and Vital Sense in there... after that your Build can go two ways.... you can either Build it for Hunter Munitions or you can build it for Crit Damage....

A regular Crit Build simple... just throw on as many damage/elemental mods as you can along side Point Strike and Vital Sense.

Building for Hunter Munitions is alot more complicated and requires a Riven for consistency. 

[Fayth2567]

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

The Opticor Vandal is good... but only when it Crits.... and with a Crit Chance of only 60% when using Point Strike (70% with Critical Delay) you can see how this a problem problem because you're just not getting consistent performance. 

In Any case Opticor  Vandal deals most of itz damage as Puncture Damage.... and the puncture Status Effect is kinda Rubbish hence why using both Malignant Force and Bane Mods on it isn't as effective as it should be.

The other issue is Shred... im sure by now you've noticed That Opticor Vandal's projectile explodes when it comes into contact with a surface.... and as from what I was told Weapons that explode on contact can't penetrate through anything so Punch Through mods Have no effect.

So then how do you build it Then ?

Well Cits are definitely a must... so you should definitely have Point Strike and Vital Sense in there... after that your Build can go two ways.... you can either Build it for Hunter Munitions or you can build it for Crit Damage....

A regular Crit Build simple... just throw on as many damage/elemental mods as you can along side Point Strike and Vital Sense.

Building for Hunter Munitions is alot more complicated and requires a Riven for consistency. 

Thanks for the insight! I will try that CRIT build! But isn’t bane mods in general all good but it double dips in damage, as I was told

[taiiat]

Armored Agility, Rush, and Thief's Wit are not contributing much to either your Abilities of your own Survivability. so the recommendation would be Efficiency, Strength, Armor. also Duration & Range depending on what you're looking to do with Rhino.

i don't think two Speed Mods (or potentially even one, one is personal preference for sure) is doing you much good on Opticor Vandal. you'd be better served with some Crit Mods, and some more Elemental Damage.
this is not to say that Opticor Series does not deal good Damage without Crits, but the Crits are so powerful that it's very difficult to find something that will outperform using Crits. even if they're inconsistent, they're generally superior.

 

for both, you have atleast some open Mod Slots and that alone is a place to start. everything gets better with a full set of Mods.

 

 

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

and the puncture Status Effect is kinda Rubbish hence why using both Malignant Force and Bane Mods on it isn't as effective as it should be.

Opticor Series deals Damage in multiple instances, Vandal is capable of applying non-stacking Elemental Status at a sufficient rate.
i wouldn't really try to apply Corrosive Status with Opticor Series, but even so you could apply a couple per shot most of the time. one Status Elemental is quite nice to have vs Enemies that aren't immune to Status. to get to about 50% Status across your many instances of Damage. 

and as usual, you don't understand basic arithmetic or any of the math that is involved in Warframe, and you try to sabotage others with your problems.
Anti-Faction Mods are very powerful Damage Multipliers, it's hard to go wrong with them as long as you're facing the relevant Faction.

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

im sure by now you've noticed That Opticor Vandal's projectile explodes when it comes into contact with a surface.... and as from what I was told Weapons that explode on contact can't penetrate through anything so Punch Through mods Have no effect.

Opticors' Beam travels infinitely, the Explosion happens upon the first surface contacted.
Punch-Through lets the Beam travel more infinitely. however the Beam has 1 Meter of Punch-Through already, so you managed to somehow in a roundabout way accidentally not be completely wrong about something. since it has some PT natively, more is usually not necessary.
but, it doesn't hurt.

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Building for Hunter Munitions is alot more complicated and requires a Riven for consistency. 

there's no need to make an Elementless dedicated Hunter memes Loadout. you could simply have Hunter Memes included in the same Loadout one would use otherwise. it would still be quite powerful in such a case.

 

13 minutes ago, Fayth2567 said:

But isn’t bane mods in general all good but it double dips in damage, as I was told

DoT's double dip in Anti-Faction Mods, normal Damage does not.
but they're Final Multipliers either way, so Anti-Faction Mods are almost always strong Damage Multipliers.

[Lutesque]

8 hours ago, Fayth2567 said:

Thanks for the insight! I will try that CRIT build! But isn’t bane mods in general all good but it double dips in damage, as I was told

You heard absolutely right.... But this is specifically for Status/Hybrid Weapons and Opticor Vandal is a Hybrid... but its  main damage type isn't ideal for Modding for Status Effects...

The way double dipping works is when a status effect that deals damage over time to an enemy. The Modifier on the Bane Mod (30%) gets used in the formula twice...Effectively Doubling the Damage you deal  to enemies.... but this is specific to Status Effects such as Slash and Toxin... when dealing Direct Damage you'l only get the 30% Modifier and thats it.

Which Brings us to the Opticor Vandal and why its such a pain in the ass to Mod it for Bane Mods and Status Effects....because its main damage type is Puncture its more likely to inflict that status type more than Any other and Puncture does Not deal damage over time.... However you can rectify this by modding it for Gas/Toxin and it will deal a S#&$ tonne of Toxic Damage when it Procs.... but only to Corpus Enemies and Weaker Infested Enemies since their Health Bars have no protection agains Toxin procs. Unfortunately the armor on Grineer Enemies does mitigate damage from Toxin Procs very effectively. I once applied a Toxic effect on a level 80 Bombard and it only delt1 Point of Damage per tick....oof !!!

The Other other Status Effect you can try is Corrosive.... a corrosive Proc will Strip away Enemy's Current Armor by 25%.... unfortunately because this Proc only works on the Current Armor rather than the Total Armor this means you can't strip away all the armor in 4 Corrosive Procs.... you need about 27 Corrosive Procs to completely remove an Enemy's Armor.... You can see how this is Problematic when looking at The Opticor Vandal's Fire Rate... modding it for High Status at the cost of damage would make it take way too long to kill tougher enemies even if you could proc Corrosive on every shot.... 

All these scenarios aren't ideal for bane mods... except for: 

Slash is good because It works just like Toxin except even Armor can't mitigate any of its Damage... and because Hunter Munitions is procced exclusively by Crit Chance... this allows even a weapon with no slash damage at at all to inflict a Slash Status Effect.... This is fantastic for Bane Mods.... especially Primed Bane Mods.... 

However while it is good... getting it to work on The Opticor Vandal is... somewhat expensive.... because the Slash Procs get their damage over time from the weapon's base damage... and you can increase it using Damage mods.

Its also Effected by Crit mods too....

Now because Hunter Muntions only has a 30% Chance to Proc... you need Multi shot to help get some of the RNG on your side using 

As you can see... trying to get all this crap to fit into your Build is  going to cost alot of Forma... 

Now Proccing Slash by itself isn't particularly Effective.... It needs to be Backed up by another Status Effect....its up to you which one to use....corrosive, Toxin and Viral all work fine.... I personally use Viral because im lazy.....

But this Brings up another issue.... you can use the 60/60 Status mods like to to increase the consistency of Proccing a Status Effect and this will save Forma.. but Overall the weapon will deal less Damage upfront......Or you can use the 90% Elemental mods like  which will deal more damage up front but will need more Forma to make it fit and make proccing the Status Effect you want alot less consistent. 

Regardless of which route you take The Opticor Vandal's Crit chance is going to be an issue.... the Ideal solution would be to get a Riven That has the stats you need and leaves you with one Slot left to add a Bane Mod.... sadly I don't have one 😞 so im using mine without Bane Mods.

To get the Opticor to Crit more consistently you can use 

Unfortunately this is an Accolyte Mod thats hard to get and has a rather stupid gimmick thats impractical to use in an Actual Mission I do get The Occasional Headshot here and there but for All Charge Weapons this mod is rubbish. And the excessive tunnel Vision from having to Aim all the time can get you killed more often. In its Place im using  instead.... 

So then how am dealing with The crit Chance Problem ?..... with this  Arcane Avenger.....

Arcane Avenger is a Warframe Arcane that will grant all your attacks and Addative 30% Crit Chance when you take Damage (I don't know if Shield damage counts) and this helps alot with getting my Opticor Vandal to crit more consistently. If I wanted to I could remove Vile Acceleration for a Bane Mod but since I don't have primed Bane Mods I don't think its worth it.

So yeah.... a very fun and potent weapon but a huge Pain in the ass to build properly.

Shotguns are still better though....

7 hours ago, taiiat said:

Anti-Faction Mods are very powerful Damage Multipliers, it's hard to go wrong with them as long as you're facing the relevant Faction.

I never said they weren't.... they just arent always the go to option for Every single build and The Opticor Vandal is a shining example of a weapon where Faction mods aren't obviously always good.

7 hours ago, taiiat said:

Opticors' Beam travels infinitely, the Explosion happens upon the first surface contacted.
Punch-Through lets the Beam travel more infinitely. however the Beam has 1 Meter of Punch-Through already, so you managed to somehow in a roundabout way accidentally not be completely wrong about something. since it has some PT natively, more is usually not necessary.
but, it doesn't hurt.

To be fair this game is constantly adding exceptions to how we know things to work and doesn't bother telling us when this is infact one of the exceptions.... im still pissed off about the Channeled Abilities thing.  

7 hours ago, taiiat said:

there's no need to make an Elementless dedicated Hunter memes Loadout.

Where on earth did I say "Elementless" ? 

When in Warframe is it ever better to forego elemental Mods ? 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Lutesque

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

19 hours ago, Fayth2567 said:

get very confused when I see builds without defensive mods, wondering how they survive. I barely survive when the enemies are between lvl 60-100

 

This is the key to your problems.  Relying on armor/defy/Phoenix Renewal etc to not die is not going to make you better - just lazy and you won't survive higher content.

You need to figure out how to avoid getting hit.  This is achieved many different ways depending on your playstyle:

• Movement - Always moving and moving fast.  Yeah, you still can get one shot.
• Map position - knowing the room, where the enemies are, where allies or other things that might aggro are and positioning accordingly. Yeah you can still get one shot
• Kill stuff. Fast.  Dead enemies don't kill you (Lingering puddles of toxic goo/clouds not withstanding).   For sorties - this is generally how its done. Yeah, you can still get one shot.
• CC - it seems to be a dying art - but CC'd enemies have hard time killing you.  Yeah you still get one shot.

But when you combine all of the above, squishy frames survive just fine against higher content.  The beauty is, if you can survive with no surviveability mods on a squishy frame at level 80 where the enemy theoretically could kill you, you can also survive level 180, 800, 8000 whatever... since one shot is one shot either way.

Were I you, I'd ditch Rhino and learn to love the squish.

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Movement - Always moving and moving fast.  Yeah, you still can get one shot.

This doesn't Work.... like At All...

Unless you were being chased by enemies with no Guns.

I don't have issues with the rest of your advice.... However:

4 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Kill stuff. Fast.  Dead enemies don't kill you (Lingering puddles of toxic goo/clouds not withstanding).   For sorties - this is generally how its done. Yeah, you can still get one shot.

Its not easy or even practical to kill things quickly if you're always running around.... especially when it comes to automatic weapons that take a while to kill. Compared to the Single shot power of a Shotgun.

 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

This doesn't Work.... like At All...

Unless you were being chased by enemies with no Guns.

I don't have issues with the rest of your advice.... However:

Its not easy or even practical to kill things quickly if you're always running around.... especially when it comes to automatic weapons that take a while to kill. Compared to the Single shot power of a Shotgun.

 

Well, I'm just reporting what I do which is a lot of long survivals on MOT or Sedna as resonance banshee and mag.  I assure you, movement is critical, and killing fast is not a problem.  When you solo with these frames, hiding in some sewer doesn't work - you HAVE to move and you HAVE to kill fast.

I never use automatic weapons however - they don't have the stopping power I need.  Or shotguns as they have too much damage fall off and/or pellet spread and I need heavies to be dead across the room.   Its almost always a sniper rifle (I only use Rub and Vect), a top tier secondary (pyrana p, mara detron, kit gun) and a top tier melee.  The alternative to the sniper I use is the Miter for nullies if I'm feeling lazy.

YMMV

 

[taiiat]

10 hours ago, Lutesque said:

they just arent always the go to option for Every single build and The Opticor Vandal is a shining example of a weapon where Faction mods aren't obviously always good.

To be fair this game is constantly adding exceptions to how we know things to work and doesn't bother telling us when this is infact one of the exceptions

Anti-Faction Mods are almost always optimal to have in a Loadout. people just don't use them.
that's no different for Opticor either. it's more convenient to not use them, even though they're better.

that's a terrible excuse. Opticor has innate PT already, and you're basically saying "don't blame me i've barely if ever used the Weapon before so i don't know the basics of how it functions".
i'm a very fair person. if i know little about a subject, i... don't make decisive statements about it. it's generally a good rule to live by. everyone is an expert at something (probably), and the world is a better place when the Experts are allowed to do what they're good at.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

Anti-Faction Mods are almost always optimal to have in a Loadout. people just don't use them.
that's no different for Opticor either. it's more convenient to not use them, even though they're better.

Sorry I used them early on when I first started Warframe.... Didn't notice a Difference. Plus I always see them being used in Hybrid Builds.... not once have I ever seen any one Use them in Crit Damage Builds. As far as I know.... that extra 30% Damage isn't as good as adding an extra 165% Damage to your own weapon. 

Im pretty damn sure if it was better than people would be using them literally all the time.

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

that's a terrible excuse. Opticor has innate PT already, and you're basically saying "don't blame me i've barely if ever used the Weapon before so i don't know the basics of how it functions".

I've been using The Opticor Vandal since it came out during Buried Debts Update. I fired it... it exploded. That's what I observed.... I then combined this Observation with what I was told about How Punch Through and Exploding Weapons Work...

If you think this is a terribal excuse then sorry.... I don't know what to tell ya.... you expect WAAAAY to much.... not all of us have the time to study how a Weapon works Frame By Frame in the Simulacrum. 

Expect this is exact same thing to repeat itself next time DE adds another weapon that works simular to the ones that came before but with one exception that they don't tell you about...

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

I'm a very fair person. if i know little about a subject, i... don't make decisive statements about it. it's generally a good rule to live by.

I agree.... but heres the thing.... How do you know if you know everything there is to know about a Subject ? 

[Lutesque]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Well, I'm just reporting what I do which is a lot of long survivals on MOT or Sedna as resonance banshee and mag.  I assure you, movement is critical, and killing fast is not a problem.  When you solo with these frames, hiding in some sewer doesn't work - you HAVE to move and you HAVE to kill fast.

And im telling you I've been one shotted a bunch of Times Movement regardless of whether I was jumping or rolling or whatever.  Im not saying you shouldn't move.... I still jump roll and slide when I can but I always get killed regardless. 

Killing Fast is a Huge Problem when Baro fails to Bring the Essential Mods needed to properly build weapons to reach the point when they can keep up with the Ridiculous Armor Scaling.... this is even more Problematic in The Void because The Game uses all 3 Factions in the same Mission and you can't Oprimize your Damage against all of them.... Specifically The Bombards, Heavy Gunners and Ancients.

5 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

 

I never use automatic weapons however - they don't have the stopping power I need.  

I agree.

5 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Or shotguns as they have too much damage fall off and/or pellet spread and I need heavies to be dead across the room. 

What if the room is Tiny ? Which many Tile sets are in this game ? 

5 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Its almost always a sniper rifle (I only use Rub and Vect), a top tier secondary (pyrana p, mara detron, kit gun) and a top tier melee. 

Yeah for most players you can't have it Both Ways.... snipers are Finicky and have Forced Inn accuracy when firing with out Scoping in (Really #*!%ing annoying because they would fun otherwise) so trying to do that while moving just isn't goinf to happen.... im always merely Walking when I run around with The Rubico and im practically Stationary with The Lanka.... still though... I miss Mag.... will definitely be Trying this again as soon As I get my potato. 

5 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

The alternative to the sniper I use is the Miter for nullies if I'm feeling lazy.

Oof.... sacrficing One Modslot for Neutralising Justice.  

Speaking of Nullifiers whats with the Wonky Hit box On the Bubble's Weakspot ? I swear im hitting it dead center but nothing ever happens. 

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

And im telling you I've been one shotted a bunch of Times Movement regardless of whether I was jumping or rolling or whatever.  Im not saying you shouldn't move.... I still jump roll and slide when I can but I always get killed regardless. 

You are just terrible at having awareness  of enemies and presence on the map, just because you are terrible at it does not mean it's bad for everyone. 

 

As to the OP original question, 

Rhino is usually good enough for almost all sorties just as he is good enough for clearing the entire star chart. 

Redirection is utterly pointless as ironskin should always be up and so shields should never take a hit, same with health but you can have vitality for those "oh S#&$" moments where you get blindsided by a nullifier. 

Ironskin depends on armor and strength, so steel fiber and some more strength mods would be more effective. 

Duration and range you pick as per preference (whether you wanna run a roaring or stomping rhino) 

Be sure to keep moving especially on conditions with radiation effects, you are more likely to be killed by friendly fire than enemies. 

On The Opticor V, I suggest to replace the speed trigger with vile acceleration and shred with point strike. 

Instead of corrosive I suggest radiation element, you want to get one shot one kill and not depend on the status procs. 

Faction mod is fine, but I personally run vital sense. 

I also suggest a status sidearm for those Ocassional enemies that don't get killed in a single shot from the OV, (kitguns are nice) 

Melee is personal preference and that would be a very large conversation needing its own thread, but a hybrid 2h zaw built for status heavy speed stats is what I suggest. As it is relatively easy (but grindy) to acquire and scales very well. 

[Lutesque]

12 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

You are just terrible at having awareness  of enemies and presence on the map, just because you are terrible at it does not mean it's bad for everyone

Thats because the Enemies keep coming up from Behind me.... im sorry but if you're argument is that I suck at having eyes in the back of my Head then so be it...I'l add that to the long list of other things I can't do like Open Heart Surgery and turning Water into Grape Juice.

BTW I have.

Great Mod... 

[taiiat]

16 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Sorry I used them early on when I first started Warframe.... Didn't notice a Difference. Plus I always see them being used in Hybrid Builds.... not once have I ever seen any one Use them in Crit Damage Builds. As far as I know.... that extra 30% Damage isn't as good as adding an extra 165% Damage to your own weapon. 

Im pretty damn sure if it was better than people would be using them literally all the time.

 

I've been using The Opticor Vandal since it came out during Buried Debts Update. I fired it... it exploded. That's what I observed.... I then combined this Observation with what I was told about How Punch Through and Exploding Weapons Work...

you expect WAAAAY to much.... not all of us have the time to study how a Weapon works Frame By Frame in the Simulacrum. 

 

Expect this is exact same thing to repeat itself next time DE adds another weapon that works simular to the ones that came before but with one exception that they don't tell you about...

you wouldn't replace your first Damage Mod, sheesh. Anti-Faction Mods are generally more powerful than adding a third Elemental Mod, and always more powerful than a fourth Elemental Mod.

in this game? a game where Players overall are extremely uneducated, you expect people to try new things or change what Mods they have on?
come now, this is Warframe. even if they're plinking against Enemies, people don't change what Mods they have on.

 

you never noticed that everything you shot at received atleast two Damage instances? never noticed that sometimes Enemies would get Magnetic Status?

yes, i have very high expectations of Players. because this is the stuff Players are supposed to be seeking out to use their tools better.
this has little if anything to do with spending hours in Simulation. just shooting a Weapon can be done anywhere. besides how do you think we recorded any of the information known about the game before Simulation existed? it was with doing science manually.

 

with another piece of  Equipment, the same process happens. experiment to find what it does, and how it does it. and knowing to expect that most things in the game use unique math that was invented just for that one thing

[Lutesque]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

you wouldn't replace your first Damage Mod, sheesh. Anti-Faction Mods are generally more powerful than adding a third Elemental Mod, and always more powerful than a fourth Elemental Mod.

Well yeah.... its not like Most enemies are that weak to Multiple Elements. Its usually 75% on one if them and 25% on another....  still you can do better than a Faction Mod in this case. 

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

in this game? a game where Players overall are extremely uneducated, you expect people to try new things or change what Mods they have on?
come now, this is Warframe. even if they're plinking against Enemies, people don't change what Mods they have on.

And whos fault is that ? Maybe people would experiment more if they weren't going to get Punished for it.

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

you never noticed that everything you shot at received atleast two Damage instances? never noticed that sometimes Enemies would get Magnetic Status?

I noticed it.....I also noticed the Opticor's Beam is Extremely Wide so its not as unforgiving with Aim like Sniper Rifles are. 

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

yes, i have very high expectations of Players. because this is the stuff Players are supposed to be seeking out to use their tools better.
this has little if anything to do with spending hours in Simulation. just shooting a Weapon can be done anywhere. besides how do you think we recorded any of the information known about the game before Simulation existed? it was with doing science manually.

Good...  atleast now I know where you stand.

 

[0_The_F00l]

8 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Thats because the Enemies keep coming up from Behind me.... im sorry but if you're argument is that I suck at having eyes in the back of my Head then so be it...I'l add that to the long list of other things I can't do like Open Heart Surgery and turning Water into Grape Juice.

BTW I have.

Great Mod... 

Glad to know you accept your flaws. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

OP please don't listen to advice from the one being educated by the other 2 good players in this thread. Take their advice instead, movement is extremely important in this game for survival and Taiiat gave you some great build advice there.

[CephalonDizzy]

@Fayth2567 Yes, you are correct that bane mods are powerful.  For your Rhino build, have you considered Ironclad Charge?  Since Iron skin scales off ]armor, you can use ironclad charge to build his armor to very high levels which in turn gives a very strong iron skin.  You'll have to get it through either Steel Meridian or The Perrin Sequence.

 

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Well yeah.... its not like Most enemies are that weak to Multiple Elements. Its usually 75% on one if them and 25% on another....  still you can do better than a Faction Mod in this case. 

 

Don't underestimate bane mods.  They aren't for every build and shouldn't replace base damage and the first two elemental mods.  Of course you would try to choose the +75% damage element prior to installing the bane mod, so that's a non-argument.  If anything, that just makes the bane mod stronger since it stacks multiplicatively.  The real reason they aren't being used often is because they are a bit clunky, not because they are weaker.

TL;DR:  Normal bane mods will outperform a third 60 - 60 elemental, but will lose out to a third 90 elemental.  Primed bane mods will outperform any third elemental.  Any bane mod will outperform any third elemental if you install a 165 elemental.  

 

Here's how the damage calculation works:

Total Damage = [(1 + base damage modifier) * (1 + total elemental modifiers)] * (1 + faction modifier)

 

Basic calculation, ignoring damage bonuses from elemental weaknesses for now

• Without bane mod, two 90 elementals and 1 60-60 elemental:
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 0.9 + 0.9 + 0.6)] * (1 + 0) = 9.01x base damage
• With a bane mod and two 90 elementals:
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 0.9 + 0.9)] * (1 + 0.3) = 9.646x base damage
• Difference: bane mod outperforms by 0.636x base damage

Factoring in the hypothetical 75% damage bonus for the dual elemental (such as corrosive and ferrite armor), and a 25% damage bonus for the third elemental

• Without bane mod, two 90 elementals and 1 60-60 elemental:
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 1.575 + 1.575 + 0.75)] * (1 + 0) = 12.985x base damage
    • Basically what I did here was corrosive is electric + toxic, and so two 90 elementals effectively means .9 + .9 = 1.8.  Factoring in the 75% damage bonus is 1.8 * 1.75 = 3.15 = 1.575 + 1.575.  Similarly, 0.6 * 1.25 = 0.75.
• With a bane mod and two 90 elementals:
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 1.575 + 1.575)] * (1 + 3) = 14.29675x base damage
• Difference: bane mod outperforms by 1.31175x base damage
  • In anything, bane mods scale even better once we factor in elemental weaknesses.

 

Now let's bring in Primed Bane Mods, which provide a 55% faction damage bonus.  We already established that trying to factor in any elemental damage bonuses only serve to make bane mods even stronger by comparison, so we don't need to go over that again.

• Without bane mod and three 90 elementals
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 0.9 + 0.9 + 0.9)] * (1 + 0) = 9.805x base damage
• With a primed bane mod and two 90 elementals:
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 0.9 + 0.9)] * (1 + 0.55) = 11.501x base damage
• Difference: primed bane mod outperforms by 1.696x base damage

 

Finally, let's up the ante and bring in a Primed elemental.

• Without bane mod, two 90 elementals and a 165 elemental
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 0.9 + 0.9 + 1.65)] * (1 + 0) = 11.7925x base damage
• With a primed bane mod, a 90 elemental, and a 165 elemental
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 0.9 + 1.65)] * (1 + 0.55) = 14.581625x base damage
• With a normal bane mod, a 90 elemental, and a 165 elemental
  • Total Damage = [(1 + 1.65) * (1 + 0.9 + 1.65)] * (1 + 0.3) = 12.22975x base damage
• Difference: primed bane mod outperforms by 2.789125x base damage
• Difference: bane mod outperforms by 0.43725x base damage

 

I won't bore people here with the details if you want to factor in stuff like serration + heavy caliber, but generally elementals boosted by serration + HCal can outperform a normal bane mod in terms of raw damage, but will still lose out to a primed bane mod.

Edited May 4, 2019 by RushBCyka

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

• Well yeah.... its not like Most enemies are that weak to Multiple Elements. Its usually 75% on one if them and 25% on another....  still you can do better than a Faction Mod in this case. 
• And whos fault is that ? Maybe people would experiment more if they weren't going to get Punished for it.
• I noticed it.....I also noticed the Opticor's Beam is Extremely Wide so its not as unforgiving with Aim like Sniper Rifles are. 

• in what case? we haven't even established any particular Enemies that are being shot at. you can't decide that without knowing the Health Types you're shooting at.
  • but still, no, you generally won't do better than having an Anti-Faction Mod. it's ok that most people don't use them, because they're lazy and changing Mods is too much work for them. so they opt for lower (sometimes much lower) Damage.
    as long as those Players don't complain that their __ does garbo Damage, they're free to make that choice.
• how does a Player get punished for experimenting and learning about the game? the only result is that they do more Damage, die less, Et Cetera. it can only make them better as a Player, there's only positive results from it.
• sortof? it's definitely easier to get any hit with Opticor, which is good for the Trash Units that you only need to hit at all to Kill. i'm definitely glad that Opticors' Beam has that ~1m Diameter now.
  • but, for efficiency it's not really much more forgiving to use. you want those Headshots as always, and those still require aiming in the right spot. there is the effectively infinite Ammo situation compared to a Sniper Rifle, though.

[Lutesque]

5 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Glad to know you accept your flaws. 

glad to know you're an unreasonably snobby elitist.

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

in what case? we haven't even established any particular Enemies that are being shot at. you can't decide that without knowing the Health Types you're shooting at.

In the case of no Non Status/Hybrid Weapons.... im pretty sure I made that clear earlier.

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

but still, no, you generally won't do better than having an Anti-Faction Mod.

Maybe you won't...  I definitely do.

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

how does a Player get punished for experimenting and learning about the game? the only result is that they do more Damage, die less, Et Cetera. it can only make them better as a Player, there's only positive results from it.

By wasting Resources...  obviously.

And Doing more damage matters since enemies that die faster will have less time to damage you... its a DPS War Of Attrition.

 

 

[0_The_F00l]

46 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

glad to know you're an unreasonably snobby elitist.

Could you explain why you think so?

[Lutesque]

4 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Could you explain why you think so?

you want me to you explain why I think you're an Elitist after you faulted me for being human ?

[0_The_F00l]

1 minute ago, Lutesque said:

you want me to you explain why I think you're an Elitist after you faulted me for being human ?

Did i ? in what sense?

also please explain the whole thing , unreasonable , snobby and elitist. do explain why you think i fit that title.

Edited May 4, 2019 by 0_The_F00l

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

By wasting Resources...  obviously.

And Doing more damage matters since enemies that die faster will have less time to damage you... its a DPS War Of Attrition.

what are Resources there for, if not to allow you to learn how to be more effective? that's a good trade if you ask me. not using those Resources for anything means being able to learn less and ergo learning less about how to be more effective. which unless i've missed something, is the ultimate and one of the few existing goals in Warframe, to learn how to be more effective.

[PsychicKitty]

I don't know what you are building your rhino for...the agility and rush  mods...I am guess for sprint speed?!?

 

I built mine as a tank..not a big deal...sure people say...but you can use the rhino armor..yep you use the rhino armor too...and sit back and not take damage or die when getting hit by tons of little guys...which eat the rhino armor easily.

 

The poor Mans Build would be and may still require a forma or two:

Aura = Steel Charge (I needed points)

Exilus Slot = Sure Footed (I hate being knocked down)

Redirect (Shields)

Gladiator Aegis (Adds to Armor)

Fortitude

Armored Agility (more Armor)

Vigor (shields and health)

Flow (more energy)

Vitality (health)

Steel Fiber (more armor)

 

My actual build is:

Aura = Steel Charge

Exilus Slot = Sure Footed

Redirect

Gladiator Aegis

Fortitude

Armored Agility

Primed Vigor

Primed Flow

Umbral Vitality

Umbral Fiber

 

For my build I have no more points to spare and I have used a lot of formas