Leaderboards updating after event ended.

[--UMBRA--Silverdk]

4 minutes ago, kikasnoob said:

what were your event requirements?

Kicking people who didn't participate is fair enough,

but kicking people who actually did contribute (but not enough) to the final clan score and still want their points? Yeah, Nah! if they aren't good enough for your clan their points shouldn't be either mate, come on fairs fair,

 

The Remnants of the Void had a 12k point requirement. Phantom Vanguard had 8k.
It was made very clear to everyone both with a clan spam ingame multiple times a day as well as on our discord that if you couldn't participate you could be temporarily removed from the clan to make room for other people and then get an inv once the event is over.

It was also made very clear that anyone not over this minimum would be kicked. Not only in the time before the event and during but even when getting recruited.

We are a competitive clan that enjoys rallying the entire clan together to push us high on the leaderboards. If you do not want to be a part of this there are plenty of other clans where this is not the case.

Also, I wouldn't call getting the 4k points for Glaxion Vandal contributing in any way. That's just playing casually for the ingame rewards and has nothing to do with the leaderboards.

[lnfine]

5 часов назад, MagPrime сказал:

The scores shouldn't be removed from the clan, regardless of phase of the event.

Yep, right. So you can clan hop with a team and earn points for other clans during the event.

Nah. There should be a grace period from event declaration to at least even conclusion. Only those who were in the clan during the whole period shouid be able to contribute points. Even worse, you could hire random people to make a run, contribute points, then leave. Thus padding your final scores by effectively having more people to contribute for you clan than the clan can technically hold at once.

5 часов назад, MagPrime сказал:

  That score was earned under your banner, it should stay under your banner.

Look at it the other way. The score was earned by the people under you banner who were then kicked for not contributing enough.

Those people could have been working for another clan from the start and contribute to the other clan affecting that clan's final score in the event.

By having contributing people in your clan during the event you are preventing these people from contributing to another clan. It does not matter if they don't pass your arbitrary threshold, they still affect competitive leaderboards in your favour.

If you kick people specifically for failing to pass a threshold you are devaluating their contribution, therefore it's completely reasonable that DE should take into account your opinion and not count their contribution if it seems lacking to you.

I mean normally this would not even be traceable, but people come to this place knowing they are not pure. Only I, Vor Errr... Why do they even complain if they themselves don't want the kicked people count as contributors?

Edited June 4, 2019 by lnfine

[Satan]

21 minutes ago, kikasnoob said:

what were your event requirements?

Kicking people who didn't participate is fair enough,

but kicking people who actually did contribute (but not enough) to the final clan score and still want their points? Yeah, Nah! if they aren't good enough for your clan their points shouldn't be either mate, come on fairs fair,

 

Our clan as been doing this for all DE events, hence why we’re always called “elitists”. We kick people who don’t get the minimum because we want people who will actually commit to our clan and not just sit around and do #*!% all just to leech off of our players. Our goal has always been to get the top spots in events and we don’t want people in the clan that do nothing and then get the same glory as those who tried their absolute hardest 

[--RV--Dopekoke]

So what if people decide to leave on their own, do the points go with them into the other clan?  Or how about in another scenario where you're team of 4 people that won 1st place in a race but afterward, they got a better contract for another team so they switch, do you, as the coach, lose the "trophy" or whatever and that trophy now belongs to the other team that didn't win thus losing your win?

[kikasnoob]

8 minutes ago, --RV--Silverdk said:

The Remnants of the Void had a 12k point requirement. Phantom Vanguard had 8k.
It was made very clear to everyone both with a clan spam ingame multiple times a day as well as on our discord that if you couldn't participate you could be temporarily removed from the clan to make room for other people and then get an inv once the event is over.

It was also made very clear that anyone not over this minimum would be kicked. Not only in the time before the event and during but even when getting recruited.

We are a competitive clan that enjoys rallying the entire clan together to push us high on the leaderboards. If you do not want to be a part of this there are plenty of other clans where this is not the case.

Also, I wouldn't call getting the 4k points for Glaxion Vandal contributing in any way. That's just playing casually for the ingame rewards and has nothing to do with the leaderboards.

but you still want their 4k points?

i agree! if you are in a competitive clan that has constant reminders of the fact, you should be actively competitive in your play style, fair enough,

 

[(PSN)joehan1287]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb lnfine:

Yep, right. So you can clan hop with a team and earn points for other clans during the event.

This is wrong only the Clan Member joining before the event Starts can contribute to the score after the event starts the clan roster gets locked.

Zitat

Clan Information:
Clan scores are determined by the Total (Sum) of each participating clan member's single best run! We will have Clan Leaderboards! These leaderboards do not include scores from members that joined after the Operation started. 

 

[lnfine]

2 минуты назад, (PS4)joehan1287 сказал:

This is wrong only the Clan Member joining before the event Starts can contribute to the score after the event starts the clan roster gets locked.

Ah, thanks for the clarification, so there's already a system in place.

[kikasnoob]

21 minutes ago, --RV--Cannibal said:

Our clan as been doing this for all DE events, hence why we’re always called “elitists”. We kick people who don’t get the minimum because we want people who will actually commit to our clan and not just sit around and do #*!% all just to leech off of our players. Our goal has always been to get the top spots in events and we don’t want people in the clan that do nothing and then get the same glory as those who tried their absolute hardest 

i don't think people who don't participate deserve any of that glory either.

[--RV--Meta]

The scores of those who performed below the minimum sufficient threshold to stay do still count for them, personally. It's in their profile statistics forever. It was important to let these folks stay to the very last minute so they had every single possible opportunity to prove themselves worthy to stay in RV/PV. We had strategy documentation available, coaches, hosts, viable builds, map surveys...everything anyone could possibly ask for if they were serious about making the bare minimum effort. At the point the event ended, the time for surveying the results began--the time to separate wheat from chaff. It's a very common practice for us, as others have said. Nothing surprising or unexpected about it.

Depending on familiarity with the event, bare minimum runs (8k/12k) could be achieved within ~20-30 minutes. Typically, in past competitive events, a minimum time sink of ~1 hour has been expected. This one was much easier to grind score for than say Ambulas Reborn or Pacifism Defect. Those who weren't up to it were overwhelmingly just lazy/apathetic and shouldn't have signed up in the first place, or should have taken the ample opportunity to duck out of the clans and then rejoin after the Event ended (as dozens did). In short, there were very few sufficient excuses for those who remained not to score above the bare minimums. The majority went several thousands over the minimum, and those who wanted to claim the in-clan prizes went up as far as 51k in both clans.

Scores earned were earned.

Those saying the math doesn't quite add up, they kicked over 300 people from PV before the leaderboards ticked down the first time and people noticed. Assuming the average of those kicked was between the bare minimum for the clan (8k) and the bare minimum to claim the event weapons (4k), or even favoring the latter, let's say you take 300 kicked under-performing ex-PV members and multiply it by 5k. 1.5 million is the result. Losing 500k seems awful high/fishy, eh? Nah. Just a lot of those people had scores even lower than 5k is all it is. Lots of people who said they'd get the minimum and didn't even make it to the Endurance portion of the event (0 points). Didn't even make the effort, and ignored the people who offered to help them through.

We in RV and PV were thrilled to see the Phantoms perform so well in their first competitive event ever, but we were also sorely disappointed in those who met opportunity with malaise and melancholy. Some were a tad eager to remove the stale portions and open the doors to those who are excited to be a part of something amazing...it's hard for me to blame them.

Edited June 4, 2019 by --RV--Meta
I make typos sometimes

[Dragmod]

"You weren't good enough, but we'll keep your points anyways to boost our egos"

Sorry lads, shouldn't have been in such a rush to cut off heads. What was it, you said you had waited a whole 15 minutes after the event, oh my. Yeah, my final attempt at the event didn't even get registered until almost 30 minutes after I had ran it. I understand wanting only the best players in your clan, its prestige and a motivator for everyone. But, you also shouldn't be crying when you pull out the guillotine and end up removing a toe.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Damn, some people take competition a little too seriously.

[---RV---Maniac]

4 hours ago, kikasnoob said:

what were your event requirements?

Kicking people who didn't participate is fair enough,

but kicking people who actually did contribute (but not enough) to the final clan score and still want their points? Yeah, Nah! if they aren't good enough for your clan their points shouldn't be either mate, come on fairs fair,

 

so the scores should perpetually go down as time goes on and your members either take breaks or join other clans?
ye great thinking there.
We have rules in our clan, everyone that enters knows them. If you were not willing to help someone else could have taken your place.

[MagPrime]

4 hours ago, lnfine said:

Yep, right. So you can clan hop with a team and earn points for other clans during the event.

Nah. There should be a grace period from event declaration to at least even conclusion. Only those who were in the clan during the whole period shouid be able to contribute points. Even worse, you could hire random people to make a run, contribute points, then leave. Thus padding your final scores by effectively having more people to contribute for you clan than the clan can technically hold at once.

Look at it the other way. The score was earned by the people under you banner who were then kicked for not contributing enough.

Those people could have been working for another clan from the start and contribute to the other clan affecting that clan's final score in the event.

By having contributing people in your clan during the event you are preventing these people from contributing to another clan. It does not matter if they don't pass your arbitrary threshold, they still affect competitive leaderboards in your favour.

If you kick people specifically for failing to pass a threshold you are devaluating their contribution, therefore it's completely reasonable that DE should take into account your opinion and not count their contribution if it seems lacking to you.

I mean normally this would not even be traceable, but people come to this place knowing they are not pure. Only I, Vor Errr... Why do they even complain if they themselves don't want the kicked people count as contributors?

I'm sorry my comment was too simple for you to understand. 

Within the confines of the rules already established for the events, what you describe simply cannot happen.  What I said, simply means that anyone who earns an event score while in a clan, that event score stays with that clan, even if they are no longer there, because it was earned with that clan. 

They already can't earn a score, leave a clan, join a new one and then earn a second score for that clan.  That is something they can't do since the very first clan focused event. 

As to your far fetched clan sabotage situation, that isn't likely to happen in the majority of clans, if at all, and even if it did, it's not on DE to punish other clans for what happens in a handful.

Edited June 4, 2019 by MagPrime

[Oreades]

Well if you're kicking them out because they didn't preform to your standards....... why should you keep their undesirable numerals..... seems fair to me. 

[OhMyGodcat]

29 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Well if you're kicking them out because they didn't preform to your standards....... why should you keep their undesirable numerals..... seems fair to me. 

Well, they still WERE a member of that clan whether their score was desirable or not, so their score should still be relevant to that clan.
For example, imagine you're in a team during a competition. You scored poorly and the team decided to kick you out after the competition. Does that mean that your score shouldn't count for that team?

[Oreades]

25 minutes ago, MushyApplePie said:

Well, they still WERE a member of that clan whether their score was desirable or not, so their score should still be relevant to that clan.
For example, imagine you're in a team during a competition. You scored poorly and the team decided to kick you out after the competition. Does that mean that your score shouldn't count for that team?

If we where talking organized team sports then sure but we aren't. Tho if we wanted to extend that, in the sports world when even one member of a team is caught cheating the teams win/score is frequently unilaterally stripped. I'd be willing to bet that there are a loooot of older clans out there that have a loooot of "exploit to the top" under their belt that by those standards should rightfully have those scores set to zero. 

Generally speaking a sport will have finite rules and structured play where as Warframe events.... not so much. 

Thing there is Warframe is a videogame and videogames seldom if ever have a 100% IRL analogue with which you can compare them.  

 

1 hour ago, ---RV---Maniac said:

so the scores should perpetually go down as time goes on and your members either take breaks or join other clans?
ye great thinking there.
We have rules in our clan, everyone that enters knows them. If you were not willing to help someone else could have taken your place.

If the aforementioned active players are unwillingly kicked from their clans then yeah because they are being removed for being undesirable for (insert) reason. People always seem to be huge into the "everything under the sun needs a tradeoff" until it's a tradeoff they don't like. 

However I would make dispensation both for players that leave on their own accord or players who are being kicked for prolonged inactivity. Tho Prolonged inactivity should be defined by DE to be "fair" across the board, superseding clan rules with regard to score retention. Otherwise all the ultra competitive clans will just set their inactivity standards to 1 day. Probably something along the lines of 30 days would seem fair to the person being kicked. 

The question comes down to how badly you want that score vs how much youre thinking about kicking that otherwise active member. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Oreades
removed redundancies

[eXotic]

5 hours ago, Dopekoke said:

So what if people decide to leave on their own, do the points go with them into the other clan?  Or how about in another scenario where you're team of 4 people that won 1st place in a race but afterward, they got a better contract for another team so they switch, do you, as the coach, lose the "trophy" or whatever and that trophy now belongs to the other team that didn't win thus losing your win?

No, the points stay in that clan,

for example, if a member of a grand final trophy winning 5 man team in csgo leaves, he will have that title of a major winner but won't take the trophy or the score with him to the next, it stays with the organization, in this context, the clan this player was in during the event.

[BeastLeeOne]

So many irrelevant points. The event was OVER. Nothing else matters period.

[MagPrime]

Just now, BeastLeeOne said:

So many irrelevant points. The event was OVER. Nothing else matters period.

Yeah, pretty much. 

[--RV--ThaPear]

After the event is over, NOTHING should alter the scores obtained.

Scores for previous events don't change, because the scores obtained during an event are cemented to forever show in the clan's profile. This event has changed that, making actions done AFTER the event impact the scoring on the leaderboard.

This is like a 100m sprinter getting a new personal best after the Olympics and taking the gold medal that previously belonged to the old winner.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

It's just a game. I'm sure it was a mistake and will be fix. No need to get anxious over it.

[--PV--Arc]

How is this fair? Kicking inactive members after event has ended messing up our clan position.

Leaderboards are expected to be auto locked / archived after a event ends. Not the next day. We worked extremely hard day and night to earn #3 position. I myself put in about 12hrs+ of work.

 

DE please revert this. We do not deserve this.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

1 minute ago, Arc2199 said:

Kicking inactive members after event has ended messing up our clan position.

It shouldn't of. Inactive members wouldn t have played the event so they should have zero points. 

[--PV--Arc]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

It shouldn't of. Inactive members wouldn t have played the event so they should have zero points. 

Some did. The ones who got the glaxion vandal. They were told they needed to meet the clan requirements else they would get kicked AFTER the event ended. Since it's a competitive clan.

And when they got kicked, It should absolutely should not have had any changes on the leaderboards. Yet it did. Which is true nonsense. Nothing should matter AFTER the event ends , let it be players joining and leaving , getting kicked due to lack of required participation , etc.

This is truly and unfair outcome and the leaderboards should be reverted as they were right after the event ended.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Arc2199

[--PV--Arc]

46 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

It's just a game. I'm sure it was a mistake and will be fix. No need to get anxious over it.

Which is what we will all like. Leaderboards returning to the way they were when the event ended. Yet as of now no fix has been made.

We worked really really hard for those leaderboard rankings.