For the love of God, Change Matchmaking.

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Like I said, I don't want to sit in that chat channel spamming the same thing. In fact, based on the afk system and how they do frames now, sitting around like that is something they want to move away from. Every frame now is active AF, or at least they think they are

A clan is no different than a chat channel. You type out what you're doing and your objectives and wait.

Depending on what you're doing, you don't wait long.  Not sure how using recruitment chat, sub-forum or even 3rd party app is comparable to being AFK.

And you are correct that clan chat is, indeed, a chat channel.  Not sure why you brought this up, as that was never in question. 

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

11 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

thx for confirming that you dont read anything

maybe that's why you don't use the chat?

All you're saying in every response is "recruitment chat". What else is there to read?

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Depending on what you're doing, you don't wait long.  Not sure how using recruitment chat, sub-forum or even 3rd party app is comparable to being AFK.

And you are correct that clan chat is, indeed, a chat channel.  Not sure why you brought this up, as that was never in question. 

Because people are bringing it up first as if it's a good alternative to recruitment, which it's not. Not everyone in a clan wants to do the same thing all the time.

[ariivanasan]

2 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Simple answer to this is to let people join or host.

I choose to do Arbitration.

New choice appears: (Square) Host (Triangle) Join:

You choose host, you get to put a title/description on your lobby

^^^^ DE this please. i think it's not so hard to do

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

2 minutes ago, ariivanasan said:

^^^^ DE this please. i think it's not so hard to do

At least this needs to be done, I agree. Thanks for some type of helpful response. Really wish I could block people on the forums.

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

Also to add, the base reason its an issue is as you said, people looking for rotation A or a specific rotation of rewards.

So if they instituted a rewards selection at the end of a particular wave, round & so forth it would mitigate the issue without the need to get too tweaky with the matchmaking system as a whole, which again would be a bad idea based on DEs track record, still not looking forward to Nightwave season 2 remix south beach edition, half the grind, all of the greasy money grubbing the original.

And im pretty sure even then the system could be exploited & youd end up with the same problems or just anpther set of irritations, base thing is, you cant essentially hold people hostage to the game, youd have ALOT of empty unfilled game rooms waiting for players, which takes up space on the system they run WF on, as it is that space gets spread around, if everyone decided at once to make their own room on an individual basis it could conceivably overload the system, or reduce its ability to create new rooms or effect overall playability.

Think Relays when Baro shows up with something people actually want, but translate the idea to the whole WF community on a given system creating that lag with so many open pr unfilled rooms.

Least how I see & understand what some issues may be.

Edited June 7, 2019 by (NSW)Hatemachine
Because i can

[PurrrningBoop]

50 минут назад, (PS4)whoistimjones сказал:

Really wish I could block people on the forums.

You can, hover over their forum name and choose ignore. Although the list will need to be updated on a regular basis, in time, this will help you create a bubble of people that agree with you,

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

21 minutes ago, PurrrningBoop said:

You can, hover over their forum name and choose ignore. Although the list will need to be updated on a regular basis, in time, this will help you create a bubble of people that agree with you,

Has nothing to do with agreeing with me. If all you wanna do is repeat the same thing or troll then I don't want to speak with you. Thanks for the info though.

[taiiat]

ultimately as aforementioned you'll end up back in Recruit Chat just like now, because you'll be one of potentially thousands of open Squads, that Players may or may not Matchmake into.
more likely not, since you want to be able to set specific Equipment that Players have to currently have Equipped in order to Matchmake in.

which what that means is, that people won't Matchmake in because the rules are too complex and nobody will end up filtering down to the spiderweb that you want to set for them.
this only rather frustrates me since there is no content in the game that such an incredibly toxic result is needed to complete a Mission/piece of content with ease or even actual efficiency.

3 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Me however, I'm not just going to wait. People always join within the allowed time/waves.

this sounds like an almost exact description of Public Matchmaking as it currently is.

3 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

All the clans I've been in have clicks.

those don't sound much like Clans, more like "Streamer Communities" (most of them) or whatever. where people that may think nothing alike whatsoever are all in the same place. it's basically the equivalent to a Secondary School Cafeteria. everyone is there for reasons other than the people that are there, generally.
and so there is little cohesion.

none of the Clans i've been in have been like that infact.... because it was a collective of people first and foremost. it doesn't hurt that most of the Clans i've been in have had a significant portion of current or ex-Military. little to no snotty children or other things that are highly disruptive, to be found.

unless ofcourse, you're referring to people having varying strength friendships with the Clanmates. unless it's a Clan of like a dozen or less, realistically you can't be with everybody at once so you're going to be with a particular handful of people the most often. but in a good Clan that doesn't mean everybody is avoiding each other, just it not being practical for all hundred+ people to be conversing with each other at once.

 

 

 

off topic

40 minutes ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Has nothing to do with agreeing with me.

(are you sure? the 'helpful post' is effectively just saying yes, not striking discussion about a subject)

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, PurrrningBoop said:

You can, hover over their forum name and choose ignore. Although the list will need to be updated on a regular basis, in time, this will help you create a bubble of people that agree with you,

I must not be using the thing right, people are constantly disagreeing with me. 

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Because people are bringing it up first as if it's a good alternative to recruitment, which it's not. Not everyone in a clan wants to do the same thing all the time.

Depending on the clan size and goal, it is a good alternative.  When I want a group for something, I start in clan, then move onto alliance and eventually public matchmaking but it's rare that I go past clan because we have a diverse and communicative group. 

However.

Your solution will create too many clicks, where people hosting demand meta loadouts for painfully average missions and when people don't que for them because of how restrictive they are, you're back to square one. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by MagPrime

[PurrrningBoop]

48 минут назад, MagPrime сказал:

I must not be using the thing right, people are constantly disagreeing with me.

Stop putting people who agree on ignore list!

Edited June 7, 2019 by PurrrningBoop

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, PurrrningBoop said:

Stop putting people who agree with on ignore list!

user is ignoring you

casts Magnetize on self 

Mag hurts itself in its confusion 

Edited June 7, 2019 by MagPrime

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

ultimately as aforementioned you'll end up back in Recruit Chat just like now, because you'll be one of potentially thousands of open Squads, that Players may or may not Matchmake into.
more likely not, since you want to be able to set specific Equipment that Players have to currently have Equipped in order to Matchmake in.

which what that means is, that people won't Matchmake in because the rules are too complex and nobody will end up filtering down to the spiderweb that you want to set for them.
this only rather frustrates me since there is no content in the game that such an incredibly toxic result is needed to complete a Mission/piece of content with ease or even actual efficiency.

this sounds like an almost exact description of Public Matchmaking as it currently is.

those don't sound much like Clans, more like "Streamer Communities" (most of them) or whatever. where people that may think nothing alike whatsoever are all in the same place. it's basically the equivalent to a Secondary School Cafeteria. everyone is there for reasons other than the people that are there, generally.
and so there is little cohesion.

none of the Clans i've been in have been like that infact.... because it was a collective of people first and foremost. it doesn't hurt that most of the Clans i've been in have had a significant portion of current or ex-Military. little to no snotty children or other things that are highly disruptive, to be found.

unless ofcourse, you're referring to people having varying strength friendships with the Clanmates. unless it's a Clan of like a dozen or less, realistically you can't be with everybody at once so you're going to be with a particular handful of people the most often. but in a good Clan that doesn't mean everybody is avoiding each other, just it not being practical for all hundred+ people to be conversing with each other at once.

 

 

 

off topic

(are you sure? the 'helpful post' is effectively just saying yes, not striking discussion about a subject)

Like I said, if implemented correctly, I'll never go back to recruitment at all. There's nothing toxic at all about wanting certain frames for certain things, do you take Ash to go eidolon hunting, do you take Khora? Equinox for Orbs? I can bet you don't, or not with a PUG group you don't. Maybe with friends but not a soul will take Nova along for Hydrolist.

If all the clans you've been in are as you say, why did you change clans at all? Clearly you were all on the same page(or at least you claim to have been, which I call bull on) so what would be the point in changing? Doesn't make sense to me.

1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

I must not be using the thing right, people are constantly disagreeing with me. 

 

Depending on the clan size and goal, it is a good alternative.  When I want a group for something, I start in clan, then move onto alliance and eventually public matchmaking but it's rare that I go past clan because we have a diverse and communicative group. 

However.

Your solution will create too many clicks, where people hosting demand meta loadouts for painfully average missions and when people don't que for them because of how restrictive they are, you're back to square one. 

How is wanting certain things for certain missions a bad thing? Even if it's not even difficult (which, let's be honest, nothing on this game is difficult. They already stated level 30 is endgame. They think adding enemies immune to abilities is difficulty) why should I not be able to choose who or what I go on a mission with? Giving me more power over who and and what I play with has no downside. I can't complain about a frame I never see. I'm tired of people using Loki and just turning invisible and having less than 20% damage. With a way for me to not be in a mission with Loki, I won't have anything to complain about. Not sure how that's a bad thing.

As for the clan thing, I constantly move from clan to clan and it's always the same, tryhards or people who barely play. Clan I'm in right now has no one playing except me and my friends that joined as well(really we're only in a clan because of the stupid dojo only weapons), we're the most active people in the clan.  Hell, we built the newest weapons as soon as we joined(that was the reason we left the last clan. For reasons beyond me, only certain people could build weapons we didn't want anything, just to get the weapons built so we could grab our BP's.) So you'll have to excuse me if I find that hard to believe.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Can I propose a counter question?

What happens to people who cannot host due to regular limitations, like their location and bandwidth, or connection issues caused by their ISP doing cheap tactics like 'dedicated downtime seconds' to save themselves money (a procedure where connections are put on hold for under a second once every few minutes to save money on transmissions, which does not hurt downloads or video streaming, but causes massive problems with live connections like gaming or Twitch).

What happens to all the hundreds of thousands of people that can't click 'host' and can only click 'join' and still have the same problem you did, with people leaving, host migration, losing their rewards?

Matchmaking right now is based on which player has the best connection to all of the others joining their squad, and host migrates before the mission starts if there's a discrepancy caused by first-come-first-served hosting.

DE do not have the money or connections necessary to host servers themselves, it's peer to peer, and with that comes the drawbacks of somebody hosting your session that has to disconnect for any number of reasons. Sometimes it's not even their fault.

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

32 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Can I propose a counter question?

What happens to people who cannot host due to regular limitations, like their location and bandwidth, or connection issues caused by their ISP doing cheap tactics like 'dedicated downtime seconds' to save themselves money (a procedure where connections are put on hold for under a second once every few minutes to save money on transmissions, which does not hurt downloads or video streaming, but causes massive problems with live connections like gaming or Twitch).

What happens to all the hundreds of thousands of people that can't click 'host' and can only click 'join' and still have the same problem you did, with people leaving, host migration, losing their rewards?

Matchmaking right now is based on which player has the best connection to all of the others joining their squad, and host migrates before the mission starts if there's a discrepancy caused by first-come-first-served hosting.

DE do not have the money or connections necessary to host servers themselves, it's peer to peer, and with that comes the drawbacks of somebody hosting your session that has to disconnect for any number of reasons. Sometimes it's not even their fault.

Honestly, what about them? If your internet isn't in a good spot, why are you online? Plus, your hypothetical situation isn't even properly handled with the way it is now, as I constantly have people leaving, host migrating and getting dropped and me losing my rewards. So Because people don't have good internet in their area, I have to sacrifice my experience? Your situation only thinks of one side, not both.

My suggestion doesn't just have host, it also has join and it tells them what their joining in to before they join it. If you joined a bite size lobby and didn't want to do bite size, you have no one to blame but yourself for whatever happens for not reading the objectives.

Whatever reason you have for leaving a match has nothing to do with me and honestly most people don't just get up from a game out of nowhere in the middle of something like a 1 hour run or whatever. Ive had that happen like 3 times while raiding on this game. If it's just a random run, sure, no one's going to care. However if you join a raid, more often then not youre not going anywhere.

I will admit there are people who say "I don't have a lot of time" and when I hear that I leave or kick them out of my group because if you don't have a lot of time you obviously shouldnt be playing at all imo. If you only got 10 mins I think that's 10 mins to prepare for what you have to do. I'm not going to waste my time going to rotation B when what I want is on rotation C.

My suggestion doesn't change enough to have this type of backlash. I'm not asking for anything to be removed, you want to have them decide everything for you, press square for quickplay and it continues as it does now. However if you want something more specific, Host(X) and Join(triangle) are there as well. And yes, the person who chose to host has the option to enable quickplay joining or not.

Again, while I disagree, I appreciate you forwarding the conversation not just repeating the same bull over and over. Thank you. Makes me think there are some people here who should be spared Thanos's snapping wrath. Not a lot though.

[breakdafunk]

7 hours ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

Toxicity is a blanket term for negativity.

Obviously recruit chat is insufficient in it's job, otherwise I wouldn't be here giving the feedback that I gave. Not everyone wants to sit in chat spamming the same thing constantly.

I really don't get it. Forming a team from the chat takes like 1-3 minutes. You just type "H 30 minutes Neo survival" and you have a committed team in no time. What is the real problem that you are having with the chat?

As long as you host missions types that are not obscure you are golden. There is plenty of people that are looking for a premade group.

[Test-995]

3 minutes ago, breakdafunk said:

I really don't get it. Forming a team from the chat takes like 1-3 minutes. You just type "H 30 minutes Neo survival" and you have a committed team in no time. What is the real problem that you are having with the chat?

As long as you host missions types that are not obscure you are golden. There is plenty of people that are looking for a premade group.

Maybe slow and too much effort?

You have to post chat often, while hoping someone to see your recruitment.

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

If your internet isn't in a good spot, why are you online?

To play Warframe because it's an enjoyable game? I mean, not as an insult to you personally, but, how entitled does that response sound, on a scale of Reddit Gatekeeper to Helicopter Mom?

If you have a shoddy connection, the game doesn't make you the Host by default, so why is that a problem for the current system? 

With the option for 'quickplay' then you're just leaving in all the same problems because people will just hit that to get into mission faster, and cause all of the same problems, there are people that will simply not care or (as is a proven fact in Warframe) just do what's fastest because this game has enough grind already.

Then again, if all you have is 'join' and 'host' how do you define whether the one you're joining is a bite-sized lobby or a long run one? Because if you're suggesting that every single person that chooses 'host' then has to manually put settings on their hosted game, in some way screening every single person joining because they're going for a long run, or that they're going for a levelling run, and then waiting as each player then decides whether to stay or go...

How is that any better than actual recruiting chat? Where a single line of text to define your specific desires for a team is then read by people looking to join, and they request to join that way.

I can see a little, a little mind you, of where you might be getting something like this, which is the Custom Game mechanics of other large games, like Overwatch. Or Server searching from TF2. But the thing with all of those games is that they don't have a large chat server with a dedicated channel for recruiting at the starting screen, in your own personal lobby. They need those systems because there's no way to actually communicate with other players before they decide to jump into a game. We have that communication, we have the ability to actually talk to and recruit players into a private lobby for anything, everything, and be as general or specific as we want.

While overly specific players may spend a while in Recruiting before they get their ideal team and desired duration, you can actually guarantee that you're getting what you want and can then proceed that way while also allowing players to gear and adjust builds to fit better with the other players you're bringing.

Meanwhile, the quickplay option is the default with no fuss required to get there. It even allows a player to start a mission and host by letting others join before the dedicated cut-off points (wave 5, 5 minutes, 50% progress, etc.) which is immediately a more flexible option than a dedicated Host button all by itself.

Basically, and yes to repeat what a couple of people have said, we have a more flexible system in the form of Recruiting. There are delays inherent in it, but genuinely there's no more delay there than you would introduce with a Hosting function.

I would argue, in fact, that because we have a Recruiting chat, that a Hosting button where you make a dedicated lobby for it would actually take longer, because players would be scanning Recruiting for their first choice and only use the 'Join' button as their fall-back. Then again, they might not even hit Join, what stops there being three hundred Hosts and no Joins?

In this particular case, I would leave it to DE. If there needs to be better matchmaking, then the system they implement will start off with testing and better consideration of what they know the players are prone to doing, based on the years of the players being butts to each other, and will be iterated on quicker with more feedback than we alone can give.

[breakdafunk]

6 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Maybe slow and too much effort?

You have to post chat often, while hoping someone to see your recruitment.

I can't agree with that... the effort part is just silly. I refuse to consider typing a sentence "an effort".

To your second point - as I said if you are not looking for obscure activities/relics there are always people looking for groups.

Additionally, I have a tip that might be useful - filter your chat to improve readability :).

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

There's nothing toxic at all about wanting certain frames for certain things

actually, usually there is because it's the 99% copying what Youtube/Twitch told them to do, and so they parrot it and make demands to compensate for their lack of experience and understanding.

when it's always the Player that makes the Gear, not visa versa. for every Squad that is even remotely efficient with whatever set of """best""" Warframes for __ content, there's a hundred others that were equally or more effective with all sorts of different Equipment.
so to recap, usually it is very toxic. because it's usually trying to force an incorrect """meta""".

 

or in short for your examples:

• to make a very strong contribution to Eidolon Hunting, ones' Warframe can provide some form of Damage Buff, some form of Utility buff/protection, and/or some form of Damage protection.
  • though more importantly is to have Focus moderately well upgraded, and have picked one of the two Amp Parts that are relevant since math for Eidolons is super mega broken and makes the destabilized choices even more uneven.
• to make a very strong contribution to Profit Taker, ones' Warframe can provide some form of Damage Buff, and/or some form of Damage protection. Utility protection as an honorable mention.
  • though more importantly is that their Weapons have a variety of Damage Types, are taking advantage of Anti-Faction Mods, and are atleast somewhat Crit weighted.

which can be to say that, if any specific Equipment is highly important for this example content, it is either that the Warframe is the least important or restrictive aspect of it, or that there isn't much restrictive at all. especially since what i just noted is for the bar of being efficient, i.e. well above the average.

would i accept an Equinox for Profit Taker? well if they were using Duality, then probably. a bit chaotic for my taste since it may also attack the Trash Units around the spider, but with an AoE kind of Weapon, it could work. could work great if you get a global Damage Buff to Matchmake in, so that their Decoy can act as another Player and be shooting extra Damage Types from its Primary Weapon while the Equinox fires their Secondary Weapon with the Damage Buff from said other Player.

 

anyways, maybe, perhaps you did not have the intention of Equipment restrictions being used this way and you would not use them this way - but, that's already how the Playerbase by large treats the game, and by extension how they would use such a feature. and so having the game give them direct tools to enable that Toxicity isn't helping the game much of any.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1 hour ago, (PS4)whoistimjones said:

If all the clans you've been in are as you say, why did you change clans at all?
so what would be the point in changing?

people branching off into different types of games, usually. people grow in and out of genres, and if people aren't interested in the same genre of games, then playing games together doesn't work quite as well anymore.
which leaves in my past, almost zero of the people in those Clans that i have any distaste for. we still got along, just didn't do similar things anymore. i keep in communication with some that were very good friends throughout my time in that Clan - because not sorting game genres in the same orders doesn't mean that we can't still enjoy each others' company.

which at this point, means that i'm still in regular communication with some people i've known for more than a decade on the internet.
i even practically grew up with a few of them.

[Test-995]

1 hour ago, breakdafunk said:

I can't agree with that... the effort part is just silly. I refuse to consider typing a sentence "an effort".

To your second point - as I said if you are not looking for obscure activities/relics there are always people looking for groups.

Additionally, I have a tip that might be useful - filter your chat to improve readability :).

Well, at the very least it's more effort than just making a lobby with name and wait for person. (but it might require more effort for managing people who joins)

And yes, slow/fast is depends on things, it wasn't a problem with chat.

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

To play Warframe because it's an enjoyable game? I mean, not as an insult to you personally, but, how entitled does that response sound, on a scale of Reddit Gatekeeper to Helicopter Mom?

I really think he is just looking for an echo chamber, and not ways to make his experience better using the tools we already have to do those things.  Almost every sensible suggestion or insight has been shot down with "I don't want to".  

[breakdafunk]

4 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Well, at the very least it's more effort than just making a lobby with name and wait for person. (but it might require more effort for managing people who joins)

And yes, slow/fast is depends on things, it wasn't a problem with chat.

Not really because you would need to set-up all of the parameters for the lobby i.e. number of waves, desired relic, desired frames etc. Otherwise you would still get people that for example quit after 5 waves.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I really think he is just looking for an echo chamber, and not ways to make his experience better using the tools we already have to do those things.  Almost every sensible suggestion or insight has been shot down with "I don't want to".  

Shh, if you start making sense, the entertainment value goes down...

[Test-995]

1 minute ago, breakdafunk said:

Not really because you would need to set-up all of the parameters for the lobby i.e. number of waves, desired relic, desired frames etc. Otherwise you would still get people that for example quit after 5 waves.

And you have to do same things for chat, in addition to that, if things you want to do is a "obscure activity", you have to send chat every few minute.

With lobbies, you don't have to do that "send chat every few minute" part.

And there is one more thing, warframe chat only supports paste from clipboard, so you have to write that recruiting text with other apps, or write it yourself every time you send it.