They're sickles, not scythes

[NanoSum]

DE, technically the in-game """scythes""" are actually called sickles and real scythes should be added....

The difference is that sickles are held in one hand and are smaller than scythes, and scythes are held in two hands and meant to be used while standing.

If real scythes were to be added, then they shouldn't be called "two-handed scythes", shouldn't be classified as polearms, and should get their own classification and stances.

Also, it'd be easy to introduce a scythe zaw by just rotating the Cyath or Balla strike on the head of the two-handed grips.

At the moment, the only weapon in-game that aesthetically looks like a real scythe is a heavy blade Dokrahm zaw, so it could also be a scythe but that would also remove the only heavy blade strike... However with the sheer amount of swords that are in-game, a larger version of the Mewan strike (or simply a normal Mewan strike that became big through the use of °•☆Ostron Magic™️☆•°) with a one-handed grip should become the new heavy blade zaw.

Edited June 28, 2019 by NanoSum
to make it more clear that im not insulting de's intelligence but stating a technical fact in terms of names and also suggesting a new weapon class

[Maka.Bones]

I think they were thinking of adding the more traditional scythes, but idk what happened to that. 

You should check out the archwing scythe though. 

[Loza03]

That is how Ninja used Scythes. And in fact probably one of the closest things we have to an authentic Ninja weapon.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Insulting DE’s intelligence

Using the PSA tag despite none of use being allowed to use it

You’re really not doing yourself any favors right now buddy.

[NanoSum]

55 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

That is how Ninja used Scythes. And in fact probably one of the closest things we have to an authentic Ninja weapon.

I don't mean this in any aggressive way but ninjas used kama, and wikipedia describes them as "a traditional Japanese farming implement similar to a sickle".

So technically we don't have any real scythes in-game.

I just hope that at the very least the general terminology would be a little more accurate. 

I mean sure, I guess technically the sickles are scythes but it just bothers me how there aren't any bigger scythes available, not even a polearm that looks like a scythe.

[yles9056]

I don't think they are sickles because of their size and shape.

They are more like some sort of pickaxe with sharp edge.

[NanoSum]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Insulting DE’s intelligence

Using the PSA tag despite none of use being allowed to use it

You’re really not doing yourself any favors right now buddy.

I've removed the PSA tag but I wasn't aware that we weren't allowed to use it. I'll admit, I'm almost never actively on here (as you can tell by my rank) but I've triple checked the guidelines and it doesn't say anything about not using the PSA tag. Just for reference, where does it say that we're not allowed to use it? I can see that no one else has used the PSA tag so I'm just wondering what I'm missing.

Also I realize that I might've come off as a bit aggressive but I've fixed the text a bit. 

But, I genuinely want to know your opinion about this, out of curiosity, do you think that DE should add a scythe weapon category and rename the current scythes to sickles?

And by the way, the company is made up of people and I see how they can make the mistake of calling the sickles, scythes. I don't mean that in a patronizing way since sickles do look like scythes but assuming that they're infallible is honestly kinda naive.

Edited June 28, 2019 by NanoSum

[Xzorn]

Well, if we're playing technical. Scythes aren't a real weapon. Least not the types you generally see.

Scythes are actually polearms.

Combat Scythes or War Scythes were used mostly by farmers though they did gain some military use. The blade was removed from it's side-angle position and reattached in a straight angle on the pole. This is why it was a thought to have started as a farmer's weapon.

The blade of a scythe is simply too long and far too curved to function properly as a combat weapon. It will get into something then get stuck leaving the wielder defenseless. A War pick is about as long as most horizontal blades get. They aren't nearly as curved, similar to Kamas and even these weapons have a problem getting stuck. Generally the more leverage you attempt to get. ie the longer the reach then the shorter the blade / pick must be.

Hate / Reaper Prime are comically over curved. Ether Reaper / Anku both look like Axes. Caustacyst is the most reasonable.

 

[Dojayak]

On 2019-06-28 at 2:44 AM, Xzorn said:

Well, if we're playing technical. Scythes aren't a real weapon. Least not the types you generally see.

Yes, scythes are a real weapon. Just as much as axes are a weapon. Or shovels, pitchforks, knives, bats, etc.

Scythes are actually polearms.

Only when modified to be such, at which point they are no longer scythes.

Combat Scythes or War Scythes were used mostly by farmers though they did gain some military use. The blade was removed from it's side-angle position and reattached in a straight angle on the pole. This is why it was a thought to have started as a farmer's weapon.

This was done to most scythes for combat, yes, but not all, nor does that make it the only viable way to use the implement.
At least half of all historical weapons were derived from or are tools.

The blade of a scythe is simply too long and far too curved to function properly as a combat weapon. It will get into something then get stuck leaving the wielder defenseless. A War pick is about as long as most horizontal blades get. They aren't nearly as curved, similar to Kamas and even these weapons have a problem getting stuck. Generally the more leverage you attempt to get. ie the longer the reach then the shorter the blade / pick must be.

If used incorrectly, yes. An unmodified scythe however is actually much better at hooking your opponent and severing the Achilles tendon. You should try it sometime (of course not with a sharpened blade, and with adequate protection).

The blade can be curved to varying degrees (up to 180°, apparently the only angle most people know) for different effect. Work a standard scythe blade into shape, add a bit of blade length near the shaft (to allow lateral cuts), bolt it to a (straighter and lighter) metal shaft with two grips and you're golden. You'll more or less have a better, longer kama with more heft. (DIY is a bit of an interest of mine. Trust me when I say just about anything can be made into a weapon with a little effort.)

The overwhelming majority of people I've seen are in opposition to using standard scythes as weapons because they've only seen them in fantasy video games and/or simply have no clue how to use them, and then there's the whole "Well, this is the way most people used them in war, therefore any other way is wrong!" mentality.

Armchair historian: "Scythe blades were always rotated to 180 degrees!"
History: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-48ceba7d942d35cf2d9ea6bccf13f200-c

Hate / Reaper Prime are comically over curved. Ether Reaper / Anku both look like Axes. Caustacyst is the most reasonable.

Ether Reaper does look like an axe, but the Anku opens up when unsheathed. Neither Hate nor Reaper Prime are over-curved. Then again, none of this matters as these are fantastical weapons in a sci-fi video game, and the problem remains that they are too short and are used more like oversized sickles than scythes. I mean, have you looked closely at the Nikana zaw strike? It's literally blunt.

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Dojayak
punctuation, geometry

[000l000]

People who have played too much Dungeons & Dragons and think they know a damn thing about weapons should definitely stop creating threads about that.

And FyI Scythes or sickles have never been anything but a farm tool and their pole counterpart are modified versions - Falx in Europe or War scythe for example. Debating about that in a game is as stupid as using a real scythe to fight, every single pole version is at best slightly curved and mostly straight cause killing someone the same way you're cutting wheat is the dumbiest idea ever.

So DE do whatever they want cause we're not talking about reality here, it's a game about space ninja, not gardening.

Edited July 4, 2019 by 000l000

[AzureTerra]

3 hours ago, 000l000 said:

So DE do whatever they want cause we're not talking about reality here, it's a game about space ninja, not gardening.

Well there is plenty of farming.

[ChaoticEdge]

He is not wrong and he is not right either.  Time to walk into history for this,

This weapon here

Spoiler

 

is a sickle for yes it is cuz your holding it close to be dagger

Spoiler

 

this weapon here for example of scythe but the weapon concider as staff/polearm

Spoiler

Now looking at the farmer's scythe

Spoiler

we noticed there is different which scythe is long pole arm that classifed as scythe but during the period changes for the scythe to be the pole arm making them looking like this

Spoiler

for it reshaped like a spear because how noneffective the scythe how they are meant cutting the field and not enemies but strangely people were able to kill other people with this weapon and if you ask "is the scythe we been using is lie how its not possible understand combat with it"?  No in medieval time they have some people combat with it

Spoiler

its quite the records about it how the fighting style for it is way different one another, but this weapons is still dangerous to perform and to handle with for there is a risk for self dmg if perform wrong. If you look the man in the right who has shorter scythe it is accurate to the warframe's scythe except for it was being handled with 2 hands still.

At the time being you can look up this site which I am not reading this info for everyone: https://www.quora.com/Were-scythes-ever-used-in-combat-and-if-so-how

Pretty much explain how did the scythe were used in combat during that time of era for I am not dealing straightening any issues or uses

Edited July 5, 2019 by ChaoticEdge

[Xzorn]

On 2019-07-04 at 4:16 AM, Dojayak said:

 

 

I actually know of that book for Scythe combat. It's the subject of a lot of controversy.

I agree anything can be a weapon even a library book. I'm mostly debating a more realistic and historical take on the typical fantasy scythe which are often very silly. I tend to lean more towards hard sci-fi than fantasy. The question that often comes to my mind is why would I use a Scythe over something like a Dane Axe. The downsides of a large axe just seem to be increased on a Scythe with no additional positives.

Sadly, If there's one thing humans have proven exceptional at; it's finding better ways of killing each other. While I don't argue a Scythe can be used in melee combat. I doubt it's practicality compared to other melee weapons. I'm not against Scythe in video games either. I've even mentioned Scythes simply need a good stance to be viable in Warframe but when specifics on their type, build and past come up then I feel the need to bring up that Scythe are like 90% fiction anyways.

 

[000l000]

Il y a 8 heures, ChaoticEdge a dit :

 

  Masquer le contenu

its quite the records about it how the fighting style for it is way different one another, but this weapons is still dangerous to perform and to handle with for there is a risk for self dmg if perform wrong. If you look the man in the right who has shorter scythe it is accurate to the warframe's scythe except for it was being handled with 2 hands still.

Out of curiosity, what are your picture sources, such as date or where does it come from ? There are lots of fake stuff in the internet you know. 😉

[kgabor]

I know, the lack of a proper greatscythe in this game makes me sickle.

I could imagine a greatscythe's practical benefits in a duel vs a simple greatsword, especially if it's a polearm-scythe hybrid, sometimes even a blocked hit could reach the opponent or with the next hit simply because of how much more versatile it could be and with the nonconventional position of the blade allowing for more reach when blocked.

And that's on top of having a better momentum as its relatively light weight combined with better weight distribution allows for faster cuts and maybe even heavier blows.

The sword was designed with ease of use in mind, but someone proficient with a warscythe could be way more dangerous than a sword user with the same amount of skill.

Edited July 5, 2019 by kgabor

[ChaoticEdge]

3 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Out of curiosity, what are your picture sources, such as date or where does it come from ? There are lots of fake stuff in the internet you know. 😉

its on my description of the link...

 

12 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

At the time being you can look up this site which I am not reading this info for everyone: https://www.quora.com/Were-scythes-ever-used-in-combat-and-if-so-how

 

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Out of curiosity, what are your picture sources, such as date or where does it come from ? There are lots of fake stuff in the internet you know. 😉

 

It's a manuscript by Paulus Hector Mair, 1540's.

He was a German Fencing master that was later hung for embellishment.

....but everyone knows throwing your pommel is the best way to end your opponent rightly.

[000l000]

Il y a 6 heures, Xzorn a dit :

 

It's a manuscript by Paulus Hector Mair, 1540's.

He was a German Fencing master that was later hung for embellishment.

....but everyone knows throwing your pommel is the best way to end your opponent rightly.

Thanks !

[NanoSum]

On 2019-06-27 at 3:46 PM, Maka.Bones said:

I think they were thinking of adding the more traditional scythes, but idk what happened to that. 

You should check out the archwing scythe though. 

Ok it's been like a month, and I hopped on here for something else then saw notifications.

I've been using kaszas for a little while now and judging by the relative size of it compared to the warframe, I feel that something like kaszas is exactly the kind of scythe we need.

 

On 2019-07-04 at 7:37 PM, ChaoticEdge said:

but this weapons is still dangerous to perform and to handle with for there is a risk for self dmg if perform wrong.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic or anything but considering that we're playing as metal(?) machines of death in space, a number of years into the future, or possibly in a different universe altogether, I feel that a specific fighting style 😉😉 would've been created to compensate for the possibility of self damage. Also, the rest of your reply was very informative, I appreciated it, thank you

🙂

On 2019-07-05 at 5:25 AM, kgabor said:

much more versatile it could be and with the nonconventional position of the blade allowing for more reach when blocked.

Ah! I see! Another man of culture! 

 

On 2019-07-05 at 5:25 AM, kgabor said:

And that's on top of having a better momentum as its relatively light weight combined with better weight distribution allows for faster cuts and maybe even heavier blows.

Sorry if I sound stupid but I'm not too educated on how to fight with a scythe (so maybe I shouldn't be talking about this :\) but I feel like with the creative and completely different history the universe of Warframe has, I feel like there could be a stance combo based on slamming the blade itself? It's a large piece of metal on the end of rod, thus giving a lot of momentum (as you said) so that could lead to ips procs depending on what part of the scythe you're using. Maybe you can use the scythe backwards(?) with the handle/rod part of it hitting the enemy to cause impact? Spin2Win for slash procs? Ground finishers based on bringing the scythe point-side down for a large puncture based finish? Maybe stealth finishers that start with sweeping the enemy off of their feet using the back end, or start with using the broad side of the blade to force the enemy to their knees and then execute them via decapitation? The list goes on with different possible stance combos because of the versatility of the weapon.

 

On 2019-06-27 at 11:44 PM, Xzorn said:

Caustacyst is the most reasonable.

Oops I forgot about caustacyst, thank you

 

On 2019-07-04 at 7:50 AM, 000l000 said:

So DE do whatever they want cause we're not talking about reality here, it's a game about space ninja, not gardening.

1. I've never played d&d thanks, 2. I agree, it's DE's game and universe and we're all just playing in it. But, the thing is, this is an entirely different universe! They have a different history, they have different cultures, everything is different! So while, yes, if DE wants to ground this game in reality and our laws of physics and mass production of easy-to-use weapons then so be it, but since we already have double jumping, archwings, suits that people use to take out entire armies, and the fact that apparently warframes don't need to breath because they can go out into deep space and not die and yet still get choked out by artificially made bio-weapons released into the air by degenerate factions.... Basically this entire universe doesn't function in the same way that ours does, so why not have war scythes as weapons? Who cares if they're impractical, all of our warframes are basically John Wick in a metal suit with magic powers! 

TL;DR, other than the actual time, work, and effort it would take to create these weapons in-game, is there really a lore- or logic-driven reason to not implement them?

The Old War was total warfare; no one was safe ("During the dark days of the Old War many a Tenno relied solely on the Tonbo to keep them alive" - Tonbo codex entry)

So it'd make sense for farmers in poor colonies to use what they had to make weapons. For example, 

Spoiler

we know that Inaros was the savior of the Mars' colony that Baro Ki'teer is from. While Inaros was gone, the people could've attempted to hold the Grineer back as they waited for their savior to return once more. Of course, in that context they wouldn't have scythes because from the looks of the Grineer colony tileset, not much farming can be done there.

Their path of logic to create said weapons doesn't have to follow the path that people took in our history.

ok sorry for the long reply now, have a nice day 😄

[Maka.Bones]

Like I said before, DE was already thinking of making something like the larger traditional scythes as weapons. They had mentioned it in one of their devstreams, but it's been a long time since then. It' possible they haven't spoken much about it yet, since they're still working on melee 3.0 but it's also possible they set it aside while they work on Empyrean, New War, and Paradox of Duviri.... I hope they didn't just change their minds, or forget about it. 

I'm not a huge fan of scythes myself, as I believe their combat capacity & usage, is largely misrepresented in anime and videogames' pop culture/media.... But it seriously bothers me to see them call "sickles" a "scythe"  (maybe DE should've called them "Kamas" which refers to both "sickles" and "scythes")

As for the argument that this isn't a "gardening" game, well the current scythes were originally "japanese grass scythes"  (Kama) meant for gardening or mild yard work. Yet they were used as weapons as well, and they're also currently in the game. 
Meanwhile the larger scythes were also employed as a self-defense tool/weapon by European/northern european/english/polish peasant farmers, in the renaissance/medieval eras (and shortly afterwards). Their style of combat also looks much more different than what anime/videogames would normally show. The regular scythe is actually a rather awkward weapon, and was only used by people who couldn't afford actual weapons, like angry peasant mobs. So people would usually re-forge the blade to be perpendicular with the pole/handle, making it look much more like a pole-arm than a scythe (and that's what war-scythes actually were). It's believed that  later polearms evolved from thee "war scythes".

But hey this is a Sci-Fi based game, and we already have a giant space-scythe. So why not have an actual large scythe to use for regular melee?  (though it makes me cringe, at least it'll be consistent)

Edited July 30, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[rapt0rman]

Sickles-AKA-kamas are already in the game... in the actual size that they're supposed to be. The scythes in warframe are not sickles, they just aren't "great scythes" or whatever.

Edited July 30, 2019 by rapt0rman

[(PSN)i7081277]

DE says they want to make sythes into heavy weapons but imo that doesn’t feel right because you wouldn’t swing a scythe like a great sword. Just look at sister fried from dark souls 3. 

[ChaoticEdge]

4 hours ago, NanoSum said:

I don't mean to sound sarcastic or anything but considering that we're playing as metal(?) machines of death in space, a number of years into the future, or possibly in a different universe altogether, I feel that a specific fighting style 😉😉 would've been created to compensate for the possibility of self damage. Also, the rest of your reply was very informative, I appreciated it, thank you

No no, I meant doing it real life because due of real life technique this was known disarm limbs I mean cut out or either leave the people disable which they'll be like either limbless or either that couldn't walk at all.  This was issued and see it wasn't effective much due of the way of fighting style that was hard to master while fighting the scythe for its like a double edge sword that will cut anyone including yourself.

In Video Game World yes sure we make them bad ass and make it awesome, but in reality your looking at self inflection if no mastery skills of fighting the way of the scythe.

[Maka.Bones]

On 2019-07-30 at 6:50 AM, rapt0rman said:

Sickles-AKA-kamas are already in the game... in the actual size that they're supposed to be. The scythes in warframe are not sickles, they just aren't "great scythes" or whatever.

"Kama" means both sickle & scythe; both sizes.  Though the more popular ones used for fighting, are much smaller because they're less awkward and less cumbersome than its large counterpart. I'm also not sure if larger scythes were used much in japan tbh. 

Also the large ones used for combat are called "War Scythes" not "Great Scythes"

Edited July 31, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[rapt0rman]

12 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

"Kama" means both sickle & scythe; both sizes. 

Not saying I don't believe you, but I'm finding 0 reference or evidence of kamas being anything other than sickle sized.

Well, I found some modern ones at least, 

Spoiler

But I don't think these are the "scythes" that people are asking for.

Edited July 31, 2019 by rapt0rman