There should be another way to earn Umbra Forma.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

19 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Sadly, some of us actually cannot spare that time as a few users have already said. Some of us have really taxing jobs and/or studies to concentrate on that require us to work long hours and even travel in my case. The thing is, I play video games at weekends, because I barely get enough time to relax during the week, so its hard for me and others in my position to keep up with you guys. Nightwave just adds an annoying almost job-like deadline into the game and IMO once a video game feels like a second job, it's no longer played for fun or stress relief.

Why does this kind of response always come up when someone points out that they don't have as much free time as other people due to professional obligations....

I like Warframe in the small time windows I get to play it. Why should I be penalised for having a job that takes up most of my time.

Not really. I mean the Umbra mods are already being used by a lot of people. Umbra polarities would just make the builds easier to set up. So it doesn't make it anymore overpowered than it already is.

I really don't like this arguement and that's coming from someone who tries to get a couple hours in per week due to 60 hour work weeks.

It isn't hard y'all, it really isn't. DE can't make it any easier. Also, as a loot/grind game that gets a lot of flak about rewards and "stuff to do", it's just wrong to even bring up stuff like this. It's a "poor me" focus point being pressed on DE and it's not fair. Just do your best and, when possible, schedule and shoot for the 7K missions. Personal scheduling issues shouldn't be the devs responsibility again and again.

[BloodKitten]

i have about 4 hours play time if i arrive early, and i am not complaining (assuming i skip shower), or are you working at epic on fartnut and they overworking you on updates? if that is the case, find a better job.

[TeaHawk]

12 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If you want to go deeper into it, we can point out that because of the high capacity cost of the umbral mods, that single umbral forma, installing one of those first can potentially mean skipping multiple normal forma in your build. 

Maybe it's true for some "easy" builds. However, on my frames even with umbral forma installed I have to form it at least 6 times to get the capacity. All these corruption mods eat as much capacity as umbral mods do.

But look: there's a really simple solution to this. For instance to craft an aura forma you need 4 normal formas. Do the same to umbral forma —> it will drastically limit your resources.

[tzadquiel]

14 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

It's got nothing to do with it.

Not everyone likes timed checklist content. Its tired and beaten to death in other games.

I have zero desire to open the interface and be told what content to play and how. Most of the tasks are things we should be retroactively rewarded for anyways.

It's an extremely lazy form of content delivery. Don't like it never will.

 

and you are free not to participate in NW. so the problem is??

[ShortCat]

15 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

And yet, there are plenty who want a stable stream of content, which nightwave kid of is.

NW offers 0 new content though, it blatantly asks you to do missions, which are already in the game for years and have their own purpose. People play less because there is factually less to do. Poor content recycle should be an alarming sigh to the players to get vocal and ask for progress. Instead people defend this monument of bad designes.

15 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

I'll say it again, WF is as casual as possible but just sometimes it has to cater to people who play on the regular so it doesnt bleed out every time two days elapse after a content drop.

NW changes nothing on the casual nature of the game itself. If you want actual content for the upper 5% of the playerbase, accomapnied with exclusive rewards, then NW is especially not the place for it. Reason is, NW came as a replacement for Alerts, which fullfil one of the basic aspects of the game. Alerts, and now NW, is as essential to the game as Arsenal or Foundary. Thus, creating excessive gates within this system is counterproductive.
Furthermore, every game will lose players after a content drop. It is a sad fact. And those players will come back with a new update or when they have time. NW actively punishes this gaming behavior and over time will alienate returning players, an issue not existing prior to NW. And for what exactly?
If you have time, I would suggest to watch this, in case my words seem like nonsense.

(EDIT: before you reply without watching the video, it is about game design first and PoE second)

Night Wave is neither the place for "endgame rewards" nor should it actively punish for absence.

Edited July 9, 2019 by ShortCat

[bibmobello]

12 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

NW offers 0 new content though, it blatantly asks you to do missions, which are already in the game for years and have their own purpose. People play less because there is factually less to do. Poor content recycle should be an alarming sigh to the players to get vocal and ask for progress. Instead people defend this monument of bad designes.

NW changes nothing on the casual nature of the game itself. If you want actual content for the upper 5% of the playerbase, accomapnied with exclusive rewards, then NW is especially not the place for it. Reason is, NW came as a replacement for Alerts, which fullfil one of the basic aspects of the game. Alerts, and now NW, is as essential to the game as Arsenal or Foundary. Thus, creating excessive gates within this system is counterproductive.
Furthermore, every game will lose players after a content drop. It is a sad fact. And those players will come back with a new update or when they have time. NW actively punishes this gaming behavior and over time will alienate returning players, an issue not existing prior to NW. And for what exactly? If you have time, I would suggest to watch this:

Night Wave is neither the place for "endgame rewards" nor should it actively punish for absence.

It's useless to compare a game like PoE to WF. WF it's an action game where you need a minimum requisite of reflexes to play it, in PoE you need only to make your character stronger to go further and honestly i fell asleep(literally) while playing it.

Edited July 9, 2019 by bibmobello

[ShortCat]

Just now, bibmobello said:

It's useless to compare a game like PoE to WF.

Would you watch the video, you would realise it is not actually about PoE, but the design decisions and thought process behind certain actions. Strategies presented there are absolutely applicable on every game.

[bibmobello]

Just now, ShortCat said:

Would you watch the video, you would realise it is not actually about PoE, but the design decisions and thought process behind certain actions. Strategies presented there are absolutely applicable on every game.

Can you make a summary? it's a 1 hour video...

[ShortCat]

3 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Can you make a summary? it's a 1 hour video...

The paragraph above the video contains some of the core messages. Just postet it there to broaden the horizont.

Edited July 9, 2019 by ShortCat

[bibmobello]

I read the paragraph but i have to admit that in WF you need years to master everything and I am not talking about farming powerful stuff.

Take eidolon for example, Most people  are good because they  have a (god)riven for a rifle, every arcane and all the schools completed. If they try to use a different frame or weapon  generally they suck. I have seen MR 27 players screaming and insulting people because themselves  are not good to take lures and protect them failing even a 2*3 eidolon, while a fantastic MR 17 player with trinity allow me with ivara with other 2 people(doing nothing) to easily beat him.

We need more squad focused fights like Eidolon because nightwave and  alerts are only fillers. The recents profit taker, exploiter orb or Ropalolyst are not even close to Tridolon.

Edited July 9, 2019 by bibmobello

[Veridian]

21 hours ago, ShortCat said:

NW offers 0 new content though

Never said it's new, but it offers incentive to play.

Poor content recycle should be an alarming sigh to the players to get vocal and ask for progress.

Recycling is how you prolong games like this, NW is not the first example of recycling not only in WF but in all the genre. You see all the progress DE have planned, but they can't create faster than we can consume, so we get something like this. Take Jupiter for example, I bet there are people who had everything 3-4 hours into the update and it's a rather large one. Fortuna - an year in the making, lots of people were done in a few weeks.

If you want actual content for the upper 5% of the playerbase

Don't put words in my mouth, I said "people who play on the regular" not for the tryhards, god forbid all content does not suit the lowest common denominator, no wonder some games are making so much money on slot machine mechanics, people just want rewards without actually playing.

NW actively punishes this gaming behavior and over time will alienate returning players, an issue not existing prior to NW.

It didn't? So how do I get my Dojo the Ignis Wrath BP? How can I get Machette, or the Shadow Debt trophy or any of the various items that there has been a thread about? I don't feel alienated that I don't have these items.

Night Wave is neither the place for "endgame rewards" nor should it actively punish for absence.

I never meant that NW should offer endgame rewards, it should offer rewards for continuous participation to give players reason to... play. When some are unable to do so, it's unfortunate, but what does NW reward? A bunch of cosmetics, some slots and forma with a convenience item (umbral) and access to the store with alert items. It's not like they're missing out on anything which actively hinders their experience, therefore there is no punishment for absence. 

Ultimately, NW, especially episode 2, requires so little investment and offers enough flexibility that by the same logic of people complaining here I can create a LoL account and rage that I can't get the s3 exclusive skin and I'd still have more reason there since DE are shouting left, right and center that "nothing apart from founders items is exclusive"
 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Ver1dian

[Fallen77]

il y a une heure, bibmobello a dit :

Take eidolon for example, Most people  are good because they  have a (god)riven for a rifle, every arcane and all the schools completed. If they try to use a different frame or weapon  generally they suck. I have seen MR 27 players screaming and insulting people because themselves  are not good to take lures and protect them failing even a 2*3 eidolon, while a fantastic MR 17 player with trinity allow me with ivara with other 2 people(doing nothing) to easily beat him.

Please, it's OK to go off-meta time to time, but don't bring ivara in tridolon, she doesn't do anything toward the hunt.

And what is this idea of hunters sucking at it without their optimized build ? Ofc ! If you ask a carpenter to hammer down some nails with a screwdriver, it's not his fault if the job is messed up, you gave him the wrong tool ! People are not using the same build to be part of some elite, they're doing it because it's the most efficient, saving the all squad's time.

Then you counter by talking about a trinity. The number one meta healer for tridolon and arguably the one that has the easiest job of the squad...

Also, build is half the journey. I could give you all arcanes and god riven possible, if you don't know how to position during hunt, how to time the eidolon phases and how to rotate the many frame and operator abilities needed to a good hunt, you won't do much beside seasoned hunters.

[TennoPain]

Op is right it should not be behind time wall but im sure DE will deal with it within a year or so it just takes time to see what players do.

They have data u know 

[bibmobello]

2 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

Please, it's OK to go off-meta time to time, but don't bring ivara in tridolon, she doesn't do anything toward the hunt.

Said the same the last guys with Chroma, after i deal 90% damage and 0 deaths... Made 3x3 with a random squad but if i don't have a good lures caregiver....

With the current riven disposition a lanka can't  1 shot a limbs neither with volt shields + a god riven,  ivara can deal 1.000.000 damage alone and much more on the final stage alone...

Wisp is a good alternative because it enhances Health a lot and she has a good amp.

Don't bring unmaxed  and unformed  frames on tridolon. Don't bring Equinox, don't bring Ember, don't bring excalibur,don't bring Banshee,  just read something first to start tridolon and make a lot of practice with 1 eidolon. Yes don't bring ivara if you don't have any idea how to use her, it's not a frame for newbies.

The best team for me is trinity as commander, volt, chroma, rhino or ivara...  I am just saying trinity for eidolon is mandatory.

Edited July 9, 2019 by bibmobello

[844448]

2 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

Please, it's OK to go off-meta time to time, but don't bring ivara in tridolon, she doesn't do anything toward the hunt.

Oi mate, you haven't seen an Ivara that shoots 21 arrows in one string pull with 62.5% chance to crit on each arrow while being invisible and not targeted at all yet?

[bibmobello]

2 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Oi mate, you haven't seen an Ivara that shoots 21 arrows in one string pull with 62.5% chance to crit on each arrow while being invisible and not targeted at all yet?

You don't use artemis bow, that's the last resource she has...

[844448]

1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

You don't use artemis bow, that's the last resource she has...

What to use then? I like shooting 21 arrows that stick to eidolon and leave a nice trail of energy

[Kingdom_key599]

12 hours ago, stormy505 said:

they have added catch up mechanics for players who can't play during the week. and they shortened the time investment from a 3-4 hour investment to a 1-2 hour investment. not all in one siting and in the span of 7 days.

I go to college and have a part time job but i still find time for this game even if its not very much because i enjoy it. I get that everyone wants to get rewards for free but even DE expects people to put A LITTLE effort into the game to get rewarded.

were not asking to get the item(s) in question "for free" as stated,

were asking for alternate ways of obtaining said item(s) besides it being locked behind something we don't have time for and/or don't enjoy, for instance having the item drop from Arbitrations or ESO, thats quite literally (in my case anyways) what some of us are asking for, i do agree with an earlier post from someone, that putting the Umbral forma in the market would break the game, that right there is what i can agree on.

however, saying that i want the forma for free is not the case, i want to put in some effort to get it but not with Nightwave not only do i not have time for the bloody thing, to me Nightwave is too tedious and boring to be Enjoyable anyways.

Yeah I'm one of those people who actively dislikes NW.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Kingdom_key599
additions

[844448]

12 hours ago, Kingdom_key599 said:

were not asking to get the item(s) in question "for free" as stated,

were asking for alternate ways of obtaining said item(s) besides it being locked behind something we don't have time for and/or don't enjoy, for instance having the item drop from Arbitrations or ESO, thats quite literally (in my case anyways) what some of us are asking for, i do agree with an earlier post from someone, that putting the Umbral forma in the market would break the game, that right there is what i can agree on.

however, saying that i want the forma for free is not the case, i want to put in some effort to get it but not with Nightwave not only do i not have time for the bloody thing, to me Nightwave is too tedious and boring to be Enjoyable anyways.

Yeah I'm one of those people who actively dislikes NW.

So you don't mind the tedious RNG of arbitration or ESO?

[Fallen77]

Il y a 14 heures, 844448 a dit :

Oi mate, you haven't seen an Ivara that shoots 21 arrows in one string pull with 62.5% chance to crit on each arrow while being invisible and not targeted at all yet?

Being invisible is near worthless against eidolons, the map is covered with aoe, and you spend most of the time in operator.

I have very much my doubts that it would be more practical or damaging that the current setup.

You gotta get close to counter the spread, you gotta make the extra step of maintaining energy.

Chroma, rhino, Harrow, volt, they can also buff teammates. I'm sure you can manage good runs with ivara, but it just won't be as good as another generally accepted frame. Rhino ain't even meta, but I'd rather have one reliable roar than an ivara that relies only on managing to get the kill to be of any use to the team.

All she does is damage for her only. And if it was worth picking up over anything else, all the number crunsher would have gravitated toward her. I can (and sadly have done) tridolon with Octavia, teamwide invis, teamwide weapon buff, and it still was a bad idea, not as efficient as chrometa. 

 

Il y a 21 heures, bibmobello a dit :

Take eidolon for example, Most people  are good because they  have a (god)riven for a rifle, every arcane and all the schools completed. If they try to use a different frame or weapon  generally they suck. 

And I was primarly answering to this. Players are not good because of god rivens, but because they know the mechanics. They are not using meta builds to avoid having to be skilled, they use it because it's the most efficient.

And one player beeing toxic doesn't reduce his potential skill, nor does it exclude the possibility that the rest of the squad was messing up the simple and yet vital task of lures. That said, if he was flaming all game, no wonder you got all the damage...

Using off meta builds to have fun is just fine, using it to prove that it can be done is worthless, you're just wasting everyone's time when you do that in pubs.

[844448]

42 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Being invisible is near worthless against eidolons, the map is covered with aoe, and you spend most of the time in operator.

I have very much my doubts that it would be more practical or damaging that the current setup.

You gotta get close to counter the spread, you gotta make the extra step of maintaining energy.

Chroma, rhino, Harrow, volt, they can also buff teammates. I'm sure you can manage good runs with ivara, but it just won't be as good as another generally accepted frame. Rhino ain't even meta, but I'd rather have one reliable roar than an ivara that relies only on managing to get the kill to be of any use to the team.

All she does is damage for her only. And if it was worth picking up over anything else, all the number crunsher would have gravitated toward her. I can (and sadly have done) tridolon with Octavia, teamwide invis, teamwide weapon buff, and it still was a bad idea, not as efficient as chrometa. 

She's a black horse in this that even a basic build will blow the synovias in no time but I won't share this knowledge

[bibmobello]

1 hour ago, Fallen77 said:

Being invisible is near worthless against eidolons, the map is covered with aoe, and you spend most of the time in operator.

I have very much my doubts that it would be more practical or damaging that the current setup.

 You gotta get close to counter the spread, you gotta make the extra step of maintaining energy.

Chroma, rhino, Harrow, volt, they can also buff teammates. I'm sure you can manage good runs with ivara, but it just won't be as good as another generally accepted frame. Rhino ain't even meta, but I'd rather have one reliable roar than an ivara that relies only on managing to get the kill to be of any use to the team.

All she does is damage for her only. And if it was worth picking up over anything else, all the number crunsher would have gravitated toward her. I can (and sadly have done) tridolon with Octavia, teamwide invis, teamwide weapon buff, and it still was a bad idea, not as efficient as chrometa. 

 

And I was primarly answering to this. Players are not good because of god rivens, but because they know the mechanics. They are not using meta builds to avoid having to be skilled, they use it because it's the most efficient.

 And one player beeing toxic doesn't reduce his potential skill, nor does it exclude the possibility that the rest of the squad was messing up the simple and yet vital task of lures. That said, if he was flaming all game, no wonder you got all the damage...

Using off meta builds to have fun is just fine, using it to prove that it can be done is worthless, you're just wasting everyone's time when you do that in pubs.

It's off topic(maybe not because you can use umbra forma on ivara) but with a good trinity and without stupid people killing synovias without having charged lures, ivara is the fastest way to kill them. Every ability she has is useful, even prowl because you get headshot bonus on eidolon too, even dashwire because you get crit bonus with the augmented mod...

There is no chroma able to deal such damage as ivara in a single shot...

But she is hard to use, this is the reason you don't see many ivara on eidolon.

Edited July 10, 2019 by bibmobello

[Fallen77]

il y a 1 minute, 844448 a dit :

She's a black horse in this that even a basic build will blow the synovias in no time but I won't share this knowledge

Yeah you didn't read everything.

She's still doing nothing for the team. And she's doing nothing that a gun can't do without energy, from a greater range and more reliably.

With an ivara, you don't have a logical part of a well build team, you just have a rogue element that runs around, praying she gets enough damage to justify her presence.

Once again, even if she has that much damage as you say, oneshotting a synova ain't anything impressive. Synovas tend to go down in the blink of an eye, even without a fully optimized team, so what is she doing ? Volt boost operator damage, chroma harrow rhino buff team, trin does what trin does, but what is ivara's purpose here ? Nathing, her entire contribution here is "being a gun", but you can equip guns on any frame you know.

 

[bibmobello]

5 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Yeah you didn't read everything.

 She's still doing nothing for the team. And she's doing nothing that a gun can't do without energy, from a greater range and more reliably.

With an ivara, you don't have a logical part of a well build team, you just have a rogue element that runs around, praying she gets enough damage to justify her presence.

Once again, even if she has that much damage as you say, oneshotting a synova ain't anything impressive. Synovas tend to go down in the blink of an eye, even without a fully optimized team, so what is she doing ? Volt boost operator damage, chroma harrow rhino buff team, trin does what trin does, but what is ivara's purpose here ? Nathing, her entire contribution here is "being a gun", but you can equip guns on any frame you know.

 

Why do you speak if you have no idea what you are talking about? have you ever seen a good ivara in your team? Have you ever used her? I don't think so...

Without a god riven noone can one shot limbs or eidolon  and nowadays riven for such weapons have low disposition. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by bibmobello

[Fallen77]

il y a 5 minutes, bibmobello a dit :

Why do you speak if you have no idea what you are talking about? have you ever seen a good ivara in your team? Have you ever used her? I don't think so...

Without a god riven noone can one shot limbs or eidolon  and nowadays riven for such weapons have low disposition. 

ONCE AGAIN. any decently built team can one shot synova (or kill it in the blink of an eye, same result).

Between volt, chroma and Harrow, it goes down in a few frames. (Images not warframes). So you could oneshot it for 1000000 more damage, it's still a one-shot, but you're not doing anything else for the team. You ain't healing, you ain't helping against shields, you ain't boosting teamates, and you need setup time to self buff and you gotta run around to avoid aoe, while chroma can wait in place, waiting to time his shot the instant shield goes down, tanking anything and sharing buff with team, while not having to worry about arrow spread to deal damage.

Yes she does damage, maybe even as much as you're claiming, but that's not all that matters into deciding a comp. She's not reliable for hunt (bow spread forces her to stay close and aligned with full synova hitbox, invis can't walk into aoe), nor does she bring anything worth using for the team.