Trinity: A (Drastic?) Rework

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

Hello! 🙂

Trinity is one of the older Warframes in the game. Ever since her introduction back in closed beta, Trinity was a staple in most high-risk squads and, while she certainly can still get things done, the introduction of newer, more complex Warframes really shows how old Trinity's kit is. And while she, by no means, is in a dire need of a rework (Vauban, Ember and Chroma go first), today I propose a rework in hopes that her kit will be updated one day.

Current issues

1. Well of Life is redundant - with Blessing's current iteration, there is absolutely never a reason to use Well of Life. Like, at all.

2. Cheesy energy dispenser - a most controversial, but no less true, point. Trinity gains/gives out energy way too easily. She brainlessly spams Energy Vampire. No real effort, nor investment that warrants such high energy gain. Harrow on the other hand, actually has to work to gain energy.

3. Passive - while thematically on point, this passive has a barely noticeable effect in actual gameplay

Goals of this rework:

1. Eliminate the redundancy in Trinity's kit by giving distinct functionality to both Well of Life and Blessing.

2. Propose a more interactive and less spammable form of Energy Vampire

3. Give her a new passive with tangible team impact

Abilities:

Passive: Instead of faster revive speed, Trinity grants nearby allies with a maximum health bonus. Trinity herself also comes with an extra revive (for solo play). Originally, that 25% faster revive speed was not noticeable in squad play, and was near useless in solo play (several players reviving the same ally made this 25% negligible). This new passive offers a team-wide buff, while the extra revive for Trinity aids in ensuring that the medic will be the last one to fall (although it all depends on overall skill, I suppose).

1. Well of Life: This ability no longer requires an enemy in order to use. Instead, Well of Life grants Trinity an aura that will heal allies by X% for every Y amount of damage dealt to enemies. If there are no enemies to shoot, Trinity can also aim at allies and hold the skill to heal them. Taking fatal damage while the aura is active will grant Z seconds of invulnerability to allies. This ability, in its current iteration, was vastly underused because the enemy would be wiped out in nanoseconds. Making this skill an aura in which Trinity herself is the Well of Life would make it a whole lot more used. Moreover, should Trinity fall in battle, the invulnerability granted will undoubtedly help allies revive her or save them in a pinch. 

2. Energy Vampire: The ability will now take an enemy and suspend them in the air as WoL did. However, the suspended foe now acts as a beacon that increases ally ability efficiency and periodically lets out pulses of energy that regen X amount of energy at base and gives Y bonus energy based on how much energy has been used by you and your team within Affinity Range. While in range of the beacon, you and your allies are immune to Energy Leech Eximus aura. The enemy is immune to damage while the ability is up and takes all accumulated damage on skill expiration. The addition of bonus ability efficiency as a bonus should compensate for the loss of mind-numbingly spam. Moreover, this will also help your team, should their builds revolve around negative efficiency, while the added immunity to Energy Leeches makes it even more valuable in Eximus Stronghold Sorties.

3. Link: Link can now be recast while active

4. Blessing: With Well of Life already granting HP, giving Blessing the ability to also grant HP would be extremely redundant. Instead, Blessing will now instantly revive any downed allies in range. Once revived, allies are granted X seconds of status effect immunity and damage mitigation. Blessing cannot be recast until the buff expires.

Edited September 26, 2019 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[(XBOX)yepbeeble]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

4. Blessing: With Well of Life already granting HP, giving Blessing the ability to also grant HP would be extremely redundant. Instead, Blessing will now instantly revive any downed allies in range. Once revived, allies are granted X seconds of status effect immunity and damage mitigation. Blessing cannot be recast until the buff expires.

Your description to blessing would make Nekros's 1st augment completely useless. Yes, it does take a mod slot, but if needed, it's possible. However, if Trin's 4 had an ability like that, I think blessing should make the downed person give invincibility to the person reviving them while being revived and nothing after. Not only that, but something that would be nice would be to give invincibility for a few seconds after for the person being revived, like a self-revive does.

Just some thoughts, I doubt this matters as I don't play Trin for anything other than tricaps.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

On 2019-09-26 at 9:52 AM, (XB1)razberryX said:

Your description to blessing would make Nekros's 1st augment completely useless.

This isn't really a valid argument, friend. Remember that, there're only so many unique concepts one can make. Eventually, they'll begin to infringe in other frame's territory. We see it all the time with Warframes that have skills with the same functionality as other frames 😕

And also, wouldn't it make more sense that a fourth ability would be better than an augment mod for a first skill?👀

Edited September 27, 2019 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[Walkampf]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb (PS4)LoisGordils:

3. Passive - while thematically on point, this passive has a barely noticeable effect in actual gameplay

Quite frankly, a ot of passives have this issue.

 

Anyway, I' m quite surprised. This whould actually nerf her, quite a bit, which is a rare proposal.

And it tihnk the proposal very quite well thought out. I like it!

I only have one question regarding her 4:

vor 19 Minuten schrieb (PS4)LoisGordils:

Once revived, allies are granted X seconds of status effect immunity and damage mitigation.

Does that mean, that players who aren't revived won't get the buff?

It tihnk this whould be quite fair, since it's a very strong buff.

If anybody get's the buff, regardless of being revived or still alive, I think it's to strong.

 

But aside from that question, I really like your ideas.

vor 12 Minuten schrieb (XB1)razberryX:

Your description to blessing would make Nekros's 1st augment completely useless.

I strongly disagree, since not all Trinities come with a pre-equiped free Necros.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Walkampf

[(XBOX)yepbeeble]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

This isn't really a valid argument, friend. Remember that, there're only so many unique concepts one can make. Eventually, they'll begin to infringe in other frame's territory. We see it all the time with Warframes that have skills with the same functionality as other frames 😕

And also, wouldn't it make more sense than a fourth ability would be better than an augment mod for a first skill?👀

Yeah you right, didn't think too far into it. My bad.

[(XBOX)yepbeeble]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

I strongly disagree, since not all Trinities come with a pre-equiped free Necros.

And that's okay that you disagree, as I said, I can't say/speak for people who play Trinity. I don't play her much, and thus can't have an opinion on whether or not she should be changed.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

23 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

And it tihnk the proposal very quite well thought out. I like it!

Thank you! 🙂

23 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Does that mean, that players who aren't revived won't get the buff?

They will not. But think about it, Blessing is supposed to assist fallen allies plus bolster them to prevent further deaths. Allies that don't die more than likely won't need the buff anyways, amirite? :]

[Miyabi-sama]

Sounds lame.

Your 1 is a lowkey Oberon copycat. And it turns Trinity into a hate object since now you either tied to her aura, or demanding her following you.

Your 2 is just rocket science. There is nothing wrong with having this ability in the first place. If you concerned with boring gameplay then demand Inaros and Ignis Wraith nerf.

Your 3 idea is fine but needs a bit more interaction.

Your 4 is lowkey "Heroes Never Die" shout. There is a lot of good in Bless as it is right now. Like... preventing deaths with resistance? And there are lots of means to get back downed people instead.

Moreover I don't see how this rework will make Trinity more fun to play. You will basically play "zone creator" with aura on you and energy aura on enemies. Basically this means you tell your team "stay here or no candies". And by writing this I've came to understanding people will always find something boring or noskill.

Trinity is fine. She is not even popular now since people can use ops and arcanes to swim in energy without support.

[Hellmaker2004]

13 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

1. Well of Life is redundant - with Blessing's current iteration, there is absolutely never a reason to use Well of Life. Like, at all.

 

That is false, what it could need is QoL changes. But it absolutely have a use.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

6 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

 

That is false, what it could need is QoL changes. But it absolutely have a use.

I would like to hear your suggestions.

[Teridax68]

There are some aspects to this rework I really like, though some specific abilities I have more mixed feelings about. The assessment, however, I can very much agree with: first and foremost, Trinity has a history of breaking the game by offering lots of cheap Energy, healing and protection all at the same time, but on top of that she has some redundancy and clunkiness in her abilities that make her feel a bit dated, when really I don't think she's that far from feeling like a smooth, modern frame. Thoughts on the suggestions:

On 2019-09-26 at 2:45 PM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Passive: Instead of faster revive speed, Trinity grants nearby allies with a maximum health bonus. Trinity herself also comes with an extra revive (for solo play). Originally, that 25% faster revive speed was not noticeable in squad play, and was near useless in solo play (several players reviving the same ally made this 25% negligible). This new passive offers a team-wide buff, while the extra revive for Trinity aids in ensuring that the medic will be the last one to fall (although it all depends on overall skill, I suppose).

This looks perfectly reasonable, and the extra revive would be fine. No real criticism here on my part.

Quote

1. Well of Life: This ability no longer requires an enemy in order to use. Instead, Well of Life grants Trinity an aura that will heal allies by X% for every Y amount of damage dealt to enemies. If there are no enemies to shoot, Trinity can also aim at allies and hold the skill to heal them. Taking fatal damage while the aura is active will grant Z seconds of invulnerability to allies. This ability, in its current iteration, was vastly underused because the enemy would be wiped out in nanoseconds. Making this skill an aura in which Trinity herself is the Well of Life would make it a whole lot more used. Moreover, should Trinity fall in battle, the invulnerability granted will undoubtedly help allies revive her or save them in a pinch.

This looks good too, and I agree with the criticism of the current ability.

Quote

2. Energy Vampire: The ability will now take an enemy and suspend them in the air as WoL did. However, the suspended foe now acts as a beacon that increases ally ability efficiency and periodically lets out pulses of energy that regen X amount of energy at base and gives Y bonus energy based on how much energy has been used by you and your team within Affinity Range. While in range of the beacon, you and your allies are immune to Energy Leech Eximus aura. The enemy is immune to damage while the ability is up and takes all accumulated damage on skill expiration. The addition of bonus ability efficiency as a bonus should compensate for the loss of mind-numbingly spam. Moreover, this will also help your team, should their builds revolve around negative efficiency, while the added immunity to Energy Leeches makes it even more valuable in Eximus Stronghold Sorties.

I have a few reservations on this one. On one hand, I really like the idea of combining EV and WoL's CC to suspend an enemy, but on the flipside I think there's actually fun gameplay to be had in the current version where EV marks targets for a reward on kill. Personally, I think if the ability simply suspended a target, exposed their head clearly, and gave Energy/Energy regen on the target's death, you wouldn't need much else to have a solid ability.

Quote

3. Link: Link can now be recast while active

This would be a fine improvement. I'd say you could go one further and turn Link into a toggled persistent drain, though for that to work EV would have to five lump amounts of Energy, rather than Energy regen that the toggle would disable.

Quote

4. Blessing: With Well of Life already granting HP, giving Blessing the ability to also grant HP would be extremely redundant. Instead, Blessing will now instantly revive any downed allies in range. Once revived, allies are granted X seconds of status effect immunity and damage mitigation. Blessing cannot be recast until the buff expires.

This is the ability I have the most mixed feelings about. A mass resurrect, for example, I think sounds better on paper than in practice, because it's very rare for more than one ally at a time to get downed. On the flipside, being able to revive an ally instantly from a distance is incredibly powerful, to the point where it could become abusive... but then there's a cooldown, a mechanic I'm not the biggest fan of in Warframe. In this particular case, too, since instant revives are more valuable than damage mitigation this also means Duration kind of anti-scales with the ability: I get that the effect is based off of Harrow's Covenant, but Covenant avoids the anti-scaling problem by having Duration also increase the invincibility duration. In this particular case, Duration only increases the cooldown.

The other reason why I have mixed feelings about this new Blessing is because I actually like the heal on the current version: I don't like the persistent damage reduction effect, as I think it's redundant and conducive to repetitive casting, but I think there's a lot of fun gameplay to being able to heal allies right as they're about to die. For this reason, I'd personally rather keep Blessing's heal, but instead remove its damage reduction and make that the effect on her 1. If Link gets changed to a persistent toggle (and thus if EV gets to still give instant amounts of Energy), that I think would solve one of Trinity's biggest current problems of being one of those frames who operates by constantly refreshing timers.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Teridax68

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

8 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

There are some aspects to this rework I really like, though some specific abilities I have more mixed feelings about. The assessment, however, I can very much agree with: first and foremost, Trinity has a history of breaking the game by offering lots of cheap Energy, healing and protection all at the same time, but on top of that she has some redundancy and clunkiness in her abilities that make her feel a bit dated, when really I don't think she's that far from feeling like a smooth, modern frame. Thoughts on the suggestions:

This looks perfectly reasonable, and the extra revive would be fine. No real criticism here on my part.

This looks good too, and I agree with the criticism of the current ability.

I have a few reservations on this one. On one hand, I really like the idea of combining EV and WoL's CC to suspend an enemy, but on the flipside I think there's actually fun gameplay to be had in the current version where EV marks targets for a reward on kill. Personally, I think if the ability simply suspended a target, exposed their head clearly, and gave Energy/Energy regen on the target's death, you wouldn't need much else to have a solid ability.

This would be a fine improvement. I'd say you could go one further and turn Link into a toggled persistent drain, though for that to work EV would have to five lump amounts of Energy, rather than Energy regen that the toggle would disable.

This is the ability I have the most mixed feelings about. A mass resurrect, for example, I think sounds better on paper than in practice, because it's very rare for more than one ally at a time to get downed. On the flipside, being able to revive an ally instantly from a distance is incredibly powerful, to the point where it could become abusive... but then there's a cooldown, a mechanic I'm not the biggest fan of in Warframe. In this particular case, too, since instant revives are more valuable than damage mitigation this also means Duration kind of anti-scales with the ability: I get that the effect is based off of Harrow's Covenant, but Covenant avoids the anti-scaling problem by having Duration also increase the invincibility duration. In this particular case, Duration only increases the cooldown.

The other reason why I have mixed feelings about this new Blessing is because I actually like the heal on the current version: I don't like the persistent damage reduction effect, as I think it's redundant and conducive to repetitive casting, but I think there's a lot of fun gameplay to being able to heal allies right as they're about to die. For this reason, I'd personally rather keep Blessing's heal, but instead remove its damage reduction and make that the effect on her 1. If Link gets changed to a persistent toggle (and thus if EV gets to still give instant amounts of Energy), that I think would solve one of Trinity's biggest current problems of being one of those frames who operates by constantly refreshing timers.

Helloo! Thank you for your thorough feedback 🙂

8 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

This is the ability I have the most mixed feelings about. A mass resurrect, for example, I think sounds better on paper than in practice, because it's very rare for more than one ally at a time to get downed. On the flipside, being able to revive an ally instantly from a distance is incredibly powerful, to the point where it could become abusive... but then there's a cooldown, a mechanic I'm not the biggest fan of in Warframe. In this particular case, too, since instant revives are more valuable than damage mitigation this also means Duration kind of anti-scales with the ability: I get that the effect is based off of Harrow's Covenant, but Covenant avoids the anti-scaling problem by having Duration also increase the invincibility duration. In this particular case, Duration only increases the cooldown.

The other reason why I have mixed feelings about this new Blessing is because I actually like the heal on the current version: I don't like the persistent damage reduction effect, as I think it's redundant and conducive to repetitive casting, but I think there's a lot of fun gameplay to being able to heal allies right as they're about to die. For this reason, I'd personally rather keep Blessing's heal, but instead remove its damage reduction and make that the effect on her 1. If Link gets changed to a persistent toggle (and thus if EV gets to still give instant amounts of Energy), that I think would solve one of Trinity's biggest current problems of being one of those frames who operates by constantly refreshing timers.

That's the thing. Sounds good on paper, but practice will really dictate the true value of a mass revive skill. Tying Blessing's damage mitigation to her one will literally be taking that aspect from Blessing with no trade-off for it 😕

[Teridax68]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Tying Blessing's damage mitigation to her one will literally be taking that aspect from Blessing with no trade-off for it 😕

I don't think that's the end of the world, as functionally Trinity would still be providing the same things to her team, and has enough power to be able to afford to take a hit. However, I do think that if her damage reduction gets moved to her 1, that could be an opportunity to increase it to 90%, so that she'd be able to get a little closer to her old 99% DR Blessing ways in providing top-tier protection for her allies.

[Tiltskillet]

On 2019-09-26 at 6:45 AM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Well of Life grants Trinity an aura that will heal allies by X% for every Y amount of damage dealt to enemies.

Is this based on...

- total allied damage within the aura?

- each ally's individual damage?  

- only Trin's damage?

 

- you mentioned shooting, so purely weapon damage, or all sources?

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

47 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Is this based on...

- total allied damage within the aura?

- each ally's individual damage?  

- only Trin's damage?

 

- you mentioned shooting, so purely weapon damage, or all sources?

Total ally damage

All sources of damage count :]

[Xzorn]

Well of Life actually makes enemies annoying durable. Contrary to the claims it gets no use because enemies die too quickly. It's a single target CC. That's all it's good for. No it's not a good ability and it's redundant but I'll take it over butchering Trinity.

Energy Vampire should have no need to be spammed in a well geared group and in low gear groups there's plenty of methods to trivialize conditions. Rhino alone has been a long time newbie favorite. If you're in a group with my Trinity you'll see EV every 28 seconds because it's part of my rotation after Blessing.

Link is supposed to have a gap in it's casting. All Self-buff mitigation abilities do. It's intended to give you a window of vulnerability. ie make a mistake.

Blessing's entire purpose is perma 75% DR. No one cares about the healing it provides or it would be in the same situation as Well of Life. Being a group buff and able to miss group members is the reason you can re-cast Blessing. Reviving downed players doesn't really happen when they  have perma 75% DR so it's kinda redundant and even if so using your Operator is plenty safe.

Healing isn't very useful if the frame doesn't have DR to back it up. That's why Trinity is good. It's not because she heals. She allows the groups healing to function better and survive better as a result of both conditions. You could remove all healing from Trinity and it wouldn't matter much because we have tons of ways to heal ourselves. If Gara didn't have to make a short range wall every time she wanted to refresh her group DR buff she'd be a strong contender against Trinity.

Also making Beacons is campy. Trinity is thankfully not a campy frame and I wouldn't want her to start being one.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Well of Life actually makes enemies annoying durable. Contrary to the claims it gets no use because enemies die too quickly. It's a single target CC. That's all it's good for. No it's not a good ability and it's redundant but I'll take it over butchering Trinity

Lmao

[Xzorn]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Lmao

 

That's not specific to your topic. That's just a generalization of what happens when DE touches a frame that's already in decent shape.

I'd rather not roll the dice and keep an effective and fairly fun frame.

[Miyabi-sama]

13 часов назад, Teridax68 сказал:

instant revives are more valuable than damage mitigation

 

13 часов назад, Teridax68 сказал:

I'd personally rather keep Blessing's heal, but instead remove its damage reduction

I can't believe you serious.

I tell you what. Today I'd sold my kidney for a good old damage reduction while playing banshee on Sedna.

But well, ok, don't mind me, I'm just maining glass cannons. You know, Mag, Banshee, that kind of girls. No offence, but I suppose with the mindset you've shown you must be playing Inaros very often eh?

For whatever reason you came up with that brilliant statement it is not true.

We're getting straight to the point. Two main problems I see concerning people here: useless WoL and spammy EV.

Well of life is crap for sure, but considering how early new player can grab Trin (Mars), on that early level this tiny crappy heal serves good, because let me remind you not every dude in the game has Rubico riven from the start, and Trin being a granny of many in Warframe's made so she could be useful on any stage of player's progression. Times have changed yes, but drastical changes to the whole kit because of one redundant ability is nonsense. In fact it could be better to slightly tweak WoL, making it more alike current EV or make EV tap to cycle health/energy and hold to cast. Voila there is room for a new one ability.

Now EV spam is not a strong build, EV is a damn gimped niche build, very demanding (you gotta farm duration reduction mods honey, not your regular mods) suffering loss of duration all the good you can do is heal and pour energy like crazy, you can even stack Overshield but that doesn't give you any good on really serious content. Arbitrations demanding Bless builds, Eidolons demanding Bless, any mission past lvl 80 demands Bless up until the point when you get oneshot regardless, heck ESO don't even allow you to spam. In fact good Trin gotta be carrying lotsa duration to maintain Bless longer, and thus making EV work as it was intended in the first place - small energy spikes, rest of energy at once on kill. And boy I can assure anyone, you get as much energy as with spammy Vampire.

2 часа назад, Xzorn сказал:

I'd rather not roll the dice and keep an effective and fairly fun frame.

No fun allowed bro. No fun allowed.

3 часа назад, Xzorn сказал:

Also making Beacons is campy. Trinity is thankfully not a campy frame and I wouldn't want her to start being one.

If, and when, she becomes one people will flood this very forum with concentrated hate about her being camp-oriented, that's for sure.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

What if ability 3 Link was changed to allow Self Damage to also transfer through the link?

as it is currently, enemies don't deal enough damage vs their own HP for the transfer to be very useful offensively. A Linked grineer who shoots me, just gets tickled by the reflected damage; I'd want to see him to drop dead instead.

Letting us drop a riven modded grenade on our feet to do some real numbers would make this ability more useful.

 

alternately, put a big Multiplier on the transfer damage based on ability Strength?

[GPrime96]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

What if ability 3 Link was changed to allow Self Damage to also transfer through the link?

as it is currently, enemies don't deal enough damage vs their own HP for the transfer to be very useful offensively. A Linked grineer who shoots me, just gets tickled by the reflected damage; I'd want to see him to drop dead instead.

Letting us drop a riven modded grenade on our feet to do some real numbers would make this ability more useful.

If you had seen Castana nuking Link Trinities before it's "fix", yeah you would've seen how that resulted since it worked similar to this.

Edited September 28, 2019 by GPrime96

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

1 hour ago, GPrime96 said:

If you had seen Castana nuking Link Trinities before it's "fix", yeah you would've seen how that resulted since it worked similar to this.

Yeah, I was around for that

back then there were 2 ways to play ESO. Trin OR Saryn

now there's just 1

[Autongnosis]

il y a une heure, (PS4)haphazardlynamed a dit :

Yeah, I was around for that

back then there were 2 ways to play ESO. Trin OR Saryn

now there's just 1

Not true at all tho, there are a number of DPS frames that can work on ESO. If you wanna switch it up a bit i can suggest trying a few out of the box ones:

- high range Atlas

- maimquinox

- khora

- high range hildryn 

- high range concentrated arrow Ivara

- mirage (with the right aoe weapons) 

[Teridax68]

4 hours ago, Miyabi-sama said:

 

I can't believe you serious.

I tell you what. Today I'd sold my kidney for a good old damage reduction while playing banshee on Sedna.

But well, ok, don't mind me, I'm just maining glass cannons. You know, Mag, Banshee, that kind of girls. No offence, but I suppose with the mindset you've shown you must be playing Inaros very often eh?

Um, no actually, I main Trinity. You can check my profile if you don't believe me. The irony in your statement is that damage reduction works far better on tanky frames than squishy ones, because it acts as a multiplier to effective health: squishy frames are thus still in greater danger of dying, particularly when the DR is "only" 75% as opposed to the now common 90%. By itself, being able to stop someone from dying even when in their dying state is stronger than simply making it more difficult for them to die.

4 hours ago, Miyabi-sama said:

We're getting straight to the point. Two main problems I see concerning people here: useless WoL and spammy EV.

Well of life is crap for sure, but considering how early new player can grab Trin (Mars), on that early level this tiny crappy heal serves good, because let me remind you not every dude in the game has Rubico riven from the start, and Trin being a granny of many in Warframe's made so she could be useful on any stage of player's progression. Times have changed yes, but drastical changes to the whole kit because of one redundant ability is nonsense. In fact it could be better to slightly tweak WoL, making it more alike current EV or make EV tap to cycle health/energy and hold to cast. Voila there is room for a new one ability.

This is a silly argument that very quickly falls apart, as it is not difficult for even a new player to get to level 10, and make WoL obsolete as early as that. There are plenty more useful effects that could be given to her that also wouldn't be redundant in the face of her other abilities, so let's perhaps go with one of those, as opposed to one that the player will quickly have no reason to use. Worth pointing out is that Trinity is by no means the only warframe whose 1 is a baby version of her 4, yet that design is getting changed, including through reworks (e.g. the removal of Wukong's Iron Jab), precisely because that sort of design is redundant.

4 hours ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Now EV spam is not a strong build, EV is a damn gimped niche build, very demanding (you gotta farm duration reduction mods honey, not your regular mods) suffering loss of duration all the good you can do is heal and pour energy like crazy, you can even stack Overshield but that doesn't give you any good on really serious content. Arbitrations demanding Bless builds, Eidolons demanding Bless, any mission past lvl 80 demands Bless up until the point when you get oneshot regardless, heck ESO don't even allow you to spam. In fact good Trin gotta be carrying lotsa duration to maintain Bless longer, and thus making EV work as it was intended in the first place - small energy spikes, rest of energy at once on kill. And boy I can assure anyone, you get as much energy as with spammy Vampire.

See, I can agree with this: EV is an overrated build that I feel had become obsolete the moment Trinity players could get access to weapons capable of killing high-level enemies with burst damage, i.e. the Tigris Prime. The build has the player sacrifice their personal durability in exchange for overwhelming amounts of Energy (which nobody really needs anymore because everyone now has easy access to Energy at high levels) and overshields (which are generally crap compared to damage reduction effects), to the degree where all it does is rely on spamming one button. I hate the build and, out of the 1000+ hours I've spent on Trinity, I've probably used it in only two or three missions to see how it felt before never touching it again.

However, EV spam isn't simply limited to Trinity's EV build: even when you're just marking targets with EV and killing them immediately after (as you should be, imo), the fact that you can do so ad nauseam, and are somewhat encouraged to, is itself kind of spammy. Thankfully, this is no longer necessary, because after a few seconds of EV+kills you'll have more than enough Energy for yourself and your teammates, but in a kit that asks the player to refresh a bunch of timers all the time, it does make itself felt. Personally, what I think would help the most here would be to remove the animation lock to its cast, because one of the reasons why Trinity feels unpleasant to use at times now is because she locks herself in place every time she casts: this is fine for her 4, but isn't really warranted for the rest of her abilities, all of which could very well just be one-handed actions (or at worst a two-handed action for her 3). Letting her cast while in the air I think was probably the best change she's received in years, and with the removal of her locks on her 1, 2, and 3 she'd likely feel less spammy even if she were to cast the same effects just as frequently.

[Miyabi-sama]

25 минут назад, Teridax68 сказал:

Um, no actually, I main Trinity. You can check my profile if you don't believe me. The irony in your statement is that damage reduction works far better on tanky frames than squishy ones, because it acts as a multiplier to effective health: squishy frames are thus still in greater danger of dying, particularly when the DR is "only" 75% as opposed to the now common 90%. By itself, being able to stop someone from dying even when in their dying state is stronger than simply making it more difficult for them to die.

I had to check it. My mind is blown actually. You've played almost as long as I have and still try to say curing healthy guys is better than ill ones.
Do you really believe that this resist was implemented in the game specifically for Gara and Chroma? Or for the people who slap Adaptation?
Sure I guess, let's forget about squishframes, they're not deserve any resist at all. They had to be building for health, armor and resists in the first place huh? Let's buff Chroma with Bless. Or Gara.

35 минут назад, Teridax68 сказал:

This is a silly argument that very quickly falls apart

First of all, this is not a political debate. And I was rather respectful to your opinion.
Second, that argument as silly as it can be is mostly true. Most of the first abilities are starter abilities. Game progressed further, power became redundant. Change the power please, not the entire kit.
In the end of the day DE reworked entire Excalibur's kit not because his one Super Jump ability was disgusting.
And why are you discussing this if it is silly? Maybe read my last sentence in that part eh?
 

1 час назад, Teridax68 сказал:

nobody really needs anymore because everyone now has easy access to Energy at high levels

Yep, that's what I am telling you. But remaking ability for this reason? If it will be great at any level of content - it must be broken and OP AF.

 

1 час назад, Teridax68 сказал:

Personally, what I think would help the most here would be to remove the animation lock to its cast, because one of the reasons why Trinity feels unpleasant to use at times now is because she locks herself in place every time she casts: this is fine for her 4, but isn't really warranted for the rest of her abilities, all of which could very well just be one-handed actions (or at worst a two-handed action for her 3). Letting her cast while in the air I think was probably the best change she's received in years, and with the removal of her locks on her 1, 2, and 3 she'd likely feel less spammy even if she were to cast the same effects just as frequently.

Yes, to be honest every frequently used ability has to be free of locks. This in particular seem very clearly when you play Banshee and always have to freeze while casting Sonar. Then you hop on Mag and voila you can cast midair in aim glide while reloading.