wf energy HAS to change

[Chicken-Biryani]

27 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

It's a fact. You're basically going to a restaurant (developer) and demanding that they turn their cheeseburgers (warframe) into salads (a different game) because YOU think it would be "better".

This ^ 👍

Edited October 26, 2019 by --C--Nehra

[Unimira]

I do think OP has a point, if you go to missions without Zenurik and Energy Restores you are at the mercy of RNG to get any energy at all but if you have them energy becomes irrelevant. Some sort of middle ground would be nice.

[mraz641]

6 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

It's a fact. You're basically going to a restaurant (developer) and demanding that they turn their cheeseburgers (warframe) into salads (a different game) because YOU think it would be "better".

 

im not demanding.im giving productive criticism without being toxic. and this is true. if you cant understand how energy change would increase fun in this game, then maybe you should try it. shame it wont be implemented.but my point stands

[mraz641]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I would love

for warframes to have rechargeable energy like operators

And replace energy regeneration abilites with energy recharge speed and recharge delay speed 

That way players can still have self sustainability in their kit 

For someone like gauss that spams his abilities all the time having a rechargeable energy can be a dream 

 

I hate energy pizzas and i hate zenurik...not having to use both is a gift 

exactly, for example you start with full energy, you use speed on volt and you have that buff for lets say 20 sec, cooldown would be 30 sec and energy capacity should be a lot larger so players dont deplete it using powers in couple of moments. im all up for energy recharge speed, and warframes specific augment could play a role how ability will react with energy. lets say you have full energy rhino and you take augment that depleets all your energy but the more energy it takes the bigger the radius of the stomp and bigger dmg. so if you are full energy with that augment rhino becomes op, but is useless afterwards untill he has his energy back. that would make the ultimate ability really ultimate. trinity should have a laaarge pool, like 2000 energy. and her energy vampire should be channeled and give 2 energy for every 1 energy she spends, her first heal should be like leaving small support boxes and if friend is in the vicinity they gain health regen, which is better then her first, her link shouldnt be touched, and her blessing(ultimate) should link her and all teammates close to her( like ospreys do) with green link and give them heal, small energy recharge speed and protection like her 3 ability link.this would be channeled but it would take insane ammounts of energy. then later on there could be bosses that deals a lot of aoe dmg and you NEED a support frame to keep them alive-trinity

[ILOHARTA]

9 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Yeah, but energy management is not a sub-topic of complexity. Just the example you made in your first reply wasn't the best. There are frames with different levels of energy efficiency. For example Inaros practically doesn't need it at all, while Ash is constantly having problems even with 175% efficiency. And I'll agree here.

If "energy management is not a sub-topic of complexity", wouldn't be ironic if there were actual differences among how it operates across different Warframes? oh wait...

But the main point of the OP is that even the least efficient frame can be trivialized using something like pizzas. Whether it is a Chroma or Octavia is not so important.

we both agree on the "everything can be trivialized" part, but seriously: go in a mission without mods with both frames and let's guess, over 100 tries, which frame allows you to live longer.

First of all you practically would only need Nocturne  -SNIP- the music, it's not needed.

oh well, if you are fine with having just basic buffs, all the power to you. I prefer to squeeze out the entire potential of the frame, and that requires some more efforts

[-Bigchungus-]

I totally agree, it's one of the reasons why we are these almost invincible gods

[Ein0r]

You could make the same argument for weapons and mods. "They need to change, too much fine tuning and  too much minmaxing allows them to be absolutely dominant  weapons of mass destruction and with this comes a boring playstyle. Flamethrower with slash dots lol, true dmg what the hell, viral gas omg."

I prefer using Warframe abilities to kill monster hordes. I dont need those weapons, please nerf them a lot harder. And now those weapons even get exilus slots, what the hell. And it is just lame when some players can stay on their preferred weapon. Why not balance ammo packs, and maybe remove ammo drops from the loot table. Give the players a set of 3-5 magazines that recharge over time. This will also force them to switch from their permanently used primary weapon to the secondary weapon. Or to the melee weapon if they run completely out of ammo. This would make for a much more interesting playstyle. See where this is going?

Spamming nuke abilities is fun. It is as much fun as jumping into a horde of enemies and slash them down with your 100% status weapon or red crit weapon.

[ant99999]

1 час назад, ILOHARTA сказал:

If "energy management is not a sub-topic of complexity", wouldn't be ironic if there were actual differences among how it operates across different Warframes? oh wait...

Being a sub-topic means being a part of the bigger subject. Energy efficiency is not a part of complexity, it is linked with it, but there are points in energy system universal to all the frames no matter how complicated they are.

Following your example with unmodded frames I will care the least about how hard they are to use or how much their energy efficiency differs if I have an Energizing Dash and endless suplies of pizzas on my side.

That and also I don't know if you realize or not but unranked Octavia will be a lot better pick than unranked Chroma in such conditions, as Nocturne alone gives you around 30-35 seconds of complete invisibility and an x8 melee damage bonus for your first attack on top, while Chroma's Vex Armor depends heavily on strength and armor modes and only gives him partial defence bonus and a 275% damage bonus additive with serration/pressure point - at max charge. All of that is not even connected to energy economy. So I still highly recommend you pick a better example.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2019-10-25 at 9:11 AM, (PS4)ghinellil said:

The usual comment from the scared kid.

Kid? I'm older than you.

[ILOHARTA]

On 2019-10-26 at 2:38 PM, ant99999 said:

Being a sub-topic means being a part of the bigger subject. Energy efficiency is not a part of complexity, it is linked with it, but there are points in energy system universal to all the frames no matter how complicated they are.

I would like to say that anybody can keep his own opinion, but the eerie nails scratching sound is preventing me from doing so

Quote

Following your example with unmodded frames I will care the least about how hard they are to use or how much their energy efficiency differs if I have an Energizing Dash and endless suplies of pizzas on my side.

as if using pizza has any sense with a paper-frame among hordes of, say, infested who are maiming you

 

 I don't know if you realize or not but unranked Octavia will be a lot better pick than unranked Chroma in such conditions, as Nocturne 

and I don't know if you realize that unranked Octavia has no access to Nocturne and your point is completely invalid

Edited October 27, 2019 by ILOHARTA
format

[Mr.Fluffins]

If energy gain is going to change (pizzas, zenurik, whatever), then the abilities of enemies to drain energy and negate abilities have to be downscaled as well, like gauntalyst random magnetic procs that drop your energy to 0, with no enemies to give you energy in sight, or parasyte eximuses hiding behind a wall, or disruptors one-shotting most of your energy poll, etc...

[ant99999]

41 минуту назад, ILOHARTA сказал:

and I don't know if you realize that unranked Octavia has no access to Nocturne and your point is completely invalid

Unmodded, my bad, that was your proposed condition. Now the point is valid.

[RX-3DR]

29 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

If energy gain is going to change (pizzas, zenurik, whatever), then the abilities of enemies to drain energy and negate abilities have to be downscaled as well, like gauntalyst random magnetic procs that drop your energy to 0, with no enemies to give you energy in sight, or parasyte eximuses hiding behind a wall, or disruptors one-shotting most of your energy poll, etc...

Well, part of the reason we had all of those was because we had abilities doing too much in the first place. Map-wide Radial Disarm Loki and Soundquake Banshee killing everything on spawn were around long before Nullifiers and Eximus enemies. The introduction of other sources of Energy just made the problem entirely self-sufficient.

[(XBOX)VaricBreem]

35 minutes ago, Bane38 said:

Stubborn people will simply say "no", these people are the same dudes that complain about game being too easy...well here is a solution? you don't want it? get #*!%ed.

Actually the ones complaining about the game being to easy are people , like the op , who cant simply enjoy  POWER FANTASY game, Where you are meant to feel strong.

So energy weapons items, they all need  To be  changed to make things  harder , ... In their opinion.  Frankly i play warframe as a wind down  game not a  wind  up... Its   what i use to relax  , not frustrate myself for no reason.  I never  understood all the people  who want challange  , But refuse  to make their own ,  They are To busy trying to force Their "Challange" down others  throats,.

Oh x weapon is Too  strong , Oh x warframe ability  ruins  my  Co op , Oh X random thing messes with my  ability  to claim I'm better than  someone 

ts all non sense IMO

I started Playing warframe years ago now across 2 different acounts PC and  now  XB1 each time  knowing what this  game  is , Its a  power Fantasy the rewards  Investment  of time

all these   so called need to change   Energy things  only  come  after a decent amount of time/money  invested in the game, The normal Gameplay   without KNOWINGLY investing in the  energy mechanics is  no where  Near the same,

Its  like baking a  Cake  Covering  it in frosting , Then Complaining its  too sweet... It just doesnt make  sense.

[George_PPS]

On 2019-10-25 at 3:29 AM, mraz641 said:

spamming pizzas and having infinite energy is basicly cheating. if warframe energy is rechargable like operator energy then saryn couldn't spam that fast her abilities and power creep overall would lessen in the game.

You DO not need to use energy pizzas and can choose less energy efficient builds to suite your OWN playing style. 

[George_PPS]

On 2019-10-25 at 3:42 AM, WhiteMarker said:

I want OP to explain it things HAVE to change.

Could the energy system and abilities take a rework so that we some always have abilities that cost 25/50/75/100 energy? Sure thing.
But why is it a must as OP is saying? Is it hurting your fun, OP? Do you dislike people spaming abilities? Maybe I hate your way of playing. Should things change to the worse for you because I would like it?
Maybe you should explain yourself thoroughly instead of just posting a statement.

And if we were to nitpick, we don't have infinite energy. You can only have 200 pizzas of on kind with you. So there is a limit to pizzas. And after that you have to rely on Arcane Energize which is RNG to some extend, and rely on Zenurik which does NOT give you huge amounts of energy in a short amount of time

Btw. It's just hilarious to bring up Saryn in this. As if Saryn would need a lot of energy to do what she is doing XD
So in addition to a thorough explanation as to why energy HAS to change, I would like to ask, if you ever played the game before.

Well said! I am very disappointed that DE is listening to these players and nerfing and killing Warframe slowly since 18 months ago.

[George_PPS]

On 2019-10-26 at 2:07 AM, mraz641 said:

im not demanding.im giving productive criticism without being toxic. and this is true. if you cant understand how energy change would increase fun in this game, then maybe you should try it. shame it wont be implemented.but my point stands

If it increases your fun, feel free to use less energy pads and build energy inefficient builds. 

[George_PPS]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)VaricBreem said:

Actually the ones complaining about the game being to easy are people , like the op , who cant simply enjoy  POWER FANTASY game, Where you are meant to feel strong.

So energy weapons items, they all need  To be  changed to make things  harder , ... In their opinion.  Frankly i play warframe as a wind down  game not a  wind  up... Its   what i use to relax  , not frustrate myself for no reason.  I never  understood all the people  who want challange  , But refuse  to make their own ,  They are To busy trying to force Their "Challange" down others  throats,.

Oh x weapon is Too  strong , Oh x warframe ability  ruins  my  Co op , Oh X random thing messes with my  ability  to claim I'm better than  someone 

ts all non sense IMO

I started Playing warframe years ago now across 2 different acounts PC and  now  XB1 each time  knowing what this  game  is , Its a  power Fantasy the rewards  Investment  of time

all these   so called need to change   Energy things  only  come  after a decent amount of time/money  invested in the game, The normal Gameplay   without KNOWINGLY investing in the  energy mechanics is  no where  Near the same,

Its  like baking a  Cake  Covering  it in frosting , Then Complaining its  too sweet... It just doesnt make  sense.

 Thank you for speaking up. I 100% agree!

Warframe is a power fantasy game. But there are few and very loud nerfers trying to turn Warframe into a power struggle game, taking away powers and damages, and trying to kill the game. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Only if DE is seriously considering changing the rest of the game drastically.  Which i doubt they ever will.

[Rakosta_Kai]

On 2019-10-26 at 2:07 AM, mraz641 said:

im not demanding.im giving productive criticism without being toxic. and this is true. if you cant understand how energy change would increase fun in this game, then maybe you should try it. shame it wont be implemented.but my point stands

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism provided that it is actually constructive.

Saying that there needs to be fewer energy restoration options in the game because it would make the game more fun in your opinion isn't really all that constructive though.

That's because it relies on a notion that doesn't/can't apply unilaterally to all because both the intent and result are subjective.

The current setup we have allows people to mix and match solutions to suit their tastes...Your idea removes that merely in order to inconvenience inconsiderate players.

Put simply, it is the functional equivalent of cutting off one's nose to spite their face.

[Arcira]

Even if some people refuse this idea from a difficulty point of view energy regeneration would provide a much better game flow and in my opinion important power distribution adjustment between base stats and enabler. Even from a developer point of view it´s more predictable for creating content because everyone has access to the same basic mechanic. So I don´t really see a downside here.

But I don´t think energy pizzas have to be removed completely. There effect could be changed to +x% increased regeneration for x seconds or something like that. Definitively less powerfull but not useless either.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Arcira

[sightjacker]

1 hour ago, George_PPS said:

Well said! I am very disappointed that DE is listening to these players and nerfing and killing Warframe slowly since 18 months ago.

Don't worry about this post because 2 things:

1-. OP is only complaining & not giving any viable solution.

2-. He's totally a vet 😅

Spoiler

[KIREEK]

And if players keep outkilling you because they shoot faster than you. You going to demand the removal of bullets aswell?

The problem isn't saryn, you can outkill, help and do other things with other warframes, provided that YOU place the proper care and effort. As much as i would like to agree with you, i've reached a point a long time ago where no change is a problem, no nerf is to big, no complaint will ever change the reality of the game, and that reality is......

Some players are better than you, regardless of what they decide to use.

And yes the game rewards that effort, so instead of complaining, work towards being better.

[FlyingDice]

Imagine thinking that pizzas are the cause of power creep in 2019. You're years behind the times, focus tree energy regen + Arcane Energize are the main problem now, not EV+pizzas.

[Gurpgork]

I used to rail hard on fixing the energy economy, but after playing some of the newer Warframes, I'm kinda seeing that DE has moved away from looking at energy itself and has decided instead to create Warframes that are balanced around the assumption that energy is hilariously abundant. 

Like take Gauss, for example. He's designed to be using abilities all the time, and it makes his gameplay really fast paced and frantic. But on the flip side, there isn't really anything you can do with his kit to break down the fundamental gameplay of Warframe, even if you had absolutely limitless energy. Thermal Sunder can nuke, but it has a really small radius and is centered around where you are, so you can't exactly wipe maps with it without a ton of effort. 

Chroma is kind of in a similar boat, because the only thing you can do with limitless energy on Chroma is sustain your buffs forever, which you could do even in a version of the game with relatively scarce energy given sufficient duration. 

Saryn, on the other hand, doesn't need a huge amount of energy to be problematic, because her design is fundamentally unhealthy to the game. She thrives much more on the infinite scaling damage of Spores, the lack of LoS restrictions, and Overextended than she does on the energy economy. She kills enemies without interacting with them, which breaks the core gameplay loop of Warframe. 

So long story short, I don't think that making energy incredibly abundant is inherently overpowered, as long as the Warframes are appropriately designed to accommodate this abundance. Unlimited energy breaks a few Warframes (Volt with a Discharge build is an example), but the Warframes that become overpowered with limitless energy have an unhealthy and uninteractive design to begin with.