(PC) Grendel & Masseter Feedback

[Shadedraxe]

I’m starting to feel less optimistic. Railjack is out. I imagine they’re going to put all hotfixes for the time being towards railjack before they take their break. And I suspect DE are just going to move on from Grendel when they get back. We probably won’t be seeing any changes to nourish’s ui or his energy drain until Grendel gets a rework in 3 years.

[Vahnstahd]

On 2019-12-15 at 5:05 PM, Shadedraxe said:

I’m starting to feel less optimistic. Railjack is out. I imagine they’re going to put all hotfixes for the time being towards railjack before they take their break. And I suspect DE are just going to move on from Grendel when they get back. We probably won’t be seeing any changes to nourish’s ui or his energy drain until Grendel gets a rework in 3 years.

"3 years" you are optimistic I see, lol.

[Ocerkin]

after playing grendel for a few weeks nearly 100% exclusively, i can say his nourish buffs are worthless, and his energy costs are WAY to expensive, even with max efficiency its rediculously energy hungry if you have more than a couple enemies swallowed and god forbid you hold them long

 

you are FORCED into building for energy efficiency with grendel or not using his powers basically at all, and being pigeonholed into a build, thats not a good frame design

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

5 hours ago, Ocerkin said:

after playing grendel for a few weeks nearly 100% exclusively, i can say his nourish buffs are worthless, and his energy costs are WAY to expensive, even with max efficiency its rediculously energy hungry if you have more than a couple enemies swallowed and god forbid you hold them long

Only good buff is his most common buff which is the energy one since it increases the energy you gain from all sources.  Including zenurik dash and rage/HA.  It's very good.

5 hours ago, Ocerkin said:

 

you are FORCED into building for energy efficiency with grendel or not using his powers basically at all, and being pigeonholed into a build, thats not a good frame design

In general most reworked frames/new frames as of late ask you to build your frame with pretty much every stat.  Modding difference really being based on what you're comfortable with on how much of one stat you want or don't need.  In grendel's case I only added in a smidge of range.  Most are survival mods with efficiency duration and strength.  I don't struggle with energy issues myself.  But that is because I really only use Nourish to heal and refresh the buff when I think I need it.

[Mardomus]

Looks like Grendel is put on hold in terms of fixing. Energy is horrid, 2nd ability has no changes and becomes punishing, 1st ability and 3rd should have been combined, and his 4th is by far the worst 4th ability in the game. He still has impact and it hits like a wet noodle. 2nd ability has no type of health regeneration. He still has... 90 shield? I suggest before releasing a Warframe it be played without cheats on, and in the testing area on 130 mobs. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, Mardomus said:

Looks like Grendel is put on hold in terms of fixing. Energy is horrid, 2nd ability has no changes and becomes punishing, 1st ability and 3rd should have been combined, and his 4th is by far the worst 4th ability in the game. He still has impact and it hits like a wet noodle. 2nd ability has no type of health regeneration. He still has... 90 shield? I suggest before releasing a Warframe it be played without cheats on, and in the testing area on 130 mobs. 

Wasn't these buffs enough?

[Mardomus]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Wasn't these buffs enough?

If you're talking about the current buffs added to Grendel through patches, no and if that's considered enough.... I hate to see what they're going to do to newer frames. Grendel's kit revolves around having mobs inside your belly, yet you're being punished for it. Look at Vauban's Rework, Atlas still bad (Impact/Squishy), other frames need updated fixtures to old animations. Holding abilities that could have been added to the tap ability rather then punishing the frame modding for natural talent for decrease casting time when in fact a useful mod could have been used (Augment). Stretched kits that could have been combined into other abilities leaving room for potential abilities that could benefit the frame or party (Vauban). Annoying impact (Barruk / Atlas / Grednel, etc.) that is hurting the abilities more than helping the Frame(s). Frames do more for less and it becomes punishing while other frames do less for more with almost similar kits and it's more rewarding. Took away Limbo's 4th AoE damage but we still have map clearing frames. Talked about not using AI to work for you yet we have Khora/Octavia/Umbra Excal/Wisp, etc. Exilus slots added to weapons when we needed augment slots that could be added to Warframes since some are dependent on those augments limiting "fun" builds; Hydriod, etc. etc. etc. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Mardomus

[Pilot2394]

Warframe has no practical use. Fun only(grendel ball races etc) There is no difference if i use skills or not. I'm playing it because it has really cool cyclop helmet and ball tramsformation.  I think this warframe was unnesessery rushed. 

[(NSW)MoonlightSerenade]

Grendel is a ton of fun but his energy drain is just horrible, you are forced to sacrifice builds just to keep energy.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2019-12-28 at 4:31 AM, Mardomus said:

Looks like Grendel is put on hold in terms of fixing. Energy is horrid, 2nd ability has no changes and becomes punishing, 1st ability and 3rd should have been combined, and his 4th is by far the worst 4th ability in the game. He still has impact and it hits like a wet noodle. 2nd ability has no type of health regeneration. He still has... 90 shield? I suggest before releasing a Warframe it be played without cheats on, and in the testing area on 130 mobs. 

Energy is absolutely not a problem with him.  I'd be curious to see what your build is.

His 2 is his weakest aspect in his kit I'll give you that.  But it's hard for me to knock on a reliable buff that increases my energy gain from literally everything.  How exactly is it punishing?

No they shouldn't have.  His 1 is both a cc tool and a quick burst of damage via shotgunning people with it.  His 3 is meant to manage the enemies you have inside you.  Should his 3 receive buffs so it has more of an impact?  absolutely.  But stating they should be combined together is literally just you not understanding the design of the kit.

His 4 absolutely isn't the worst.  I regularly kill sortie 3 enemies just by bouncing next to them a few times.

[Mardomus]

21 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Energy is absolutely not a problem with him.  I'd be curious to see what your build is.

His energy is a problem along with his 4 abilities. His passive is redundant when your energy is being depleted at fast rates per second with 1 or more enemies inside. 

 

21 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

His 2 is his weakest aspect in his kit I'll give you that.  But it's hard for me to knock on a reliable buff that increases my energy gain from literally everything.  How exactly is it punishing?

His 2 is not the weakest that goes to his 4th. His 2 is punishing because you have to cycle and grab mobs to get a specific "buff" rather than allow all buffs to be used at once (Octavia). So, if you need energy, given that he needs it, you have to find that mob that gives it to you, while Harrow and Trinity's abilities become less punishing for energy restoration and it's more rewarding. Also, his health buff is horrible. Inaros healing and Nidus self regeneration could have been a mix to this ability. Even wisps Healing Reservoir is way better than Grendel's 2nd and he is a new frame.

 

21 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

His 4 absolutely isn't the worst.  I regularly kill sortie 3 enemies just by bouncing next to them a few times.

Oh yes it is. Impact isn't as great especially when it comes to higher content (Atlas, Baruuk, etc.). They could have changed that impact to toxic damage considering his kit deals "toxic" damage. Other Frames have already cleared mobs and areas moving to the next part of the mission, while you're still doing "bounces" just to kill 1 mob (Primary weapon could have done that faster). Given that you have a damage buff to help out, but good luck finding the right mobs to get the buffs you need. Octavia does it by dancing, and so does other frames who gain buffs without issues like Wisp, etc. So in conclusion, this Frame is still in "Alpha". It needs to be looked and and fixed like how they did with Gauss. Also, if your kit is revolved around energy restoration, while you have a "buff" that gives it, something is wrong. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Mardomus

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

6 hours ago, Mardomus said:

His energy is a problem along with his 4 abilities. His passive is redundant when your energy is being depleted at fast rates per second with 1 or more enemies inside. 

Nice on avoiding showing your build.

6 hours ago, Mardomus said:

 

His 2 is not the weakest that goes to his 4th. His 2 is punishing because you have to cycle and grab mobs to get a specific "buff" rather than allow all buffs to be used at once (Octavia). So, if you need energy, given that he needs it, you have to find that mob that gives it to you, while Harrow and Trinity's abilities become less punishing for energy restoration and it's more rewarding. Also, his health buff is horrible. Inaros healing and Nidus self regeneration could have been a mix to this ability. Even wisps Healing Reservoir is way better than Grendel's 2nd and he is a new frame.

His energy buff comes from the most common mob type.  I agree that the way he gets his buffs can be better.  But trying to pretend like you'll have regular instances where you won't get the energy buff is laughable.  Cool.  Didn't ask if other frames can do it better.  It still gives me a good chunk of my health back whenever I use it.  His 2 is his weakest ability given how it's designed and 2 of the 3 buffs being not worth maintaining.

6 hours ago, Mardomus said:

 

Oh yes it is. Impact isn't as great especially when it comes to higher content (Atlas, Baruuk, etc.). They could have changed that impact to toxic damage considering his kit deals "toxic" damage. Other Frames have already cleared mobs and areas moving to the next part of the mission, while you're still doing "bounces" just to kill 1 mob (Primary weapon could have done that faster). Given that you have a damage buff to help out, but good luck finding the right mobs to get the buffs you need. Octavia does it by dancing, and so does other frames who gain buffs without issues like Wisp, etc. So in conclusion, this Frame is still in "Alpha". It needs to be looked and and fixed like how they did with Gauss. Also, if your kit is revolved around energy restoration, while you have a "buff" that gives it, something is wrong. 

Again, I kill sortie 3 level enemies just fine with his bouncing.  Only a nox has really given me trouble.  No the only conclusion here is that you have a terrible build to go with your terrible perspective and all you're seeking to do is make the frame look like garbage.  Grendel has issues.  But he's not awful.  There are at least 3 other frames I could point to who have a lot worse problems with their kit.  But i'm not going to waste my time further by arguing with a wall.

[Sammoya]

After playing Grendel for awhile, he is a fun frame but could use some touch ups.

Feast's energy drain is too much. Having 1 enemy sit in his belly already drains the energy bar fairly quickly and that is just 1 enemy. Please lower the energy drain a bit.

Nourish would be a lot better if we could actually see the 'cycle' effect similar to Vauban and Ivara. Also instead of having a certain enemy type for Nourish buffs, I think it should be based on the number of enemies inside of his belly for example: 1 enemy = nourished energy, 3 enemies = nourished armor, etc. OR simply have him pick up any buff regardless of the enemy type. 

Regurgitate feels redundant because Grendel's 1 does the same thing but better. I don't see a point in trying to spit at an enemy when I can just shoot them. Maybe when the launched enemy lands, they explode and leave a toxic/corrosive/sticky puddle upon impact.

 

 

[DrivaMain]

Alright I’ve been playing Grendel for a while now, here are some issues and gripes about him (mostly about energy economy).

Passive : The armor bonus should have been included with the first ability and replaced with a new one.

1. Exponential energy drain ramp up from his feast is too much, holding more than 10 enemies with a 183% duration and primed flow drains all of my energy reserves in less than around 15 seconds.

2. Spamming nourish worsen the energy economy because not only you are dealing with huge energy drain from feast but also the 50 base energy cast of nourish. Also, the buffs granted seems a bit too weak and why does Nourish Energy doesn’t affect energy orbs/restores/arcane energize but only energy regeneration?

3. Regurgitate doesn’t deal enough damage and short range in high level, I would rather use my weapons instead and it seems it doesn’t proc Toxin if Nourish Strike active (possibly a bug?).

4. Pulverize controls are clunky and the speed of the boulder are pretty slow and forcing to cast nourish to gain speed worsen the energy economy and doesn’t seems to proc toxin if Nourish strike is active (possibly a bug?)

Some solutions

1. Cut the exponential ramp up of feast and pulverize by around 50-75% so we are not forced using efficiency and duration in our builds and make negative efficiency build not too punishing

2. Reduce nourish cast cost to 25 energy and make Nourish energy affect Energy Orbs, Energy Restores, and Arcane Energize and increase the nourish energy buff by 1.50x at base so the buff can compete with other warframe abilities (Energy Vampire, thurible, etc).

3. Allow regurgitate deal Toxin procs without nourish buffs.

4. Give greater control to pulverize to allow sharper turns, allow to proc toxin if nourish strike is active, and increase the base speed of pulverize.

 

 

 

[Neo3602]

Hey I know that this is pretty late but I think that it would help if the heal from his 2nd ability was greater because as it is now it's not very useful.

 

Edit: I think that either the heal should be buffed so that it heals a good amount of health on cast or removed and buff the buffs that his second ability gives out to compensate.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Neo3602

[OzWozzy]

Feels bad having to decide on whether to lose your energy while also using other abilities, or sacrifice your tankiness to do other things that are just kind of fun. His kit is really enjoyable where it's at, it just feels very conflicted. Maybe make it so he can keep some of the armor if mobs die in his belly? This would help, maybe, with the people that spend time to go all the way up to like 300+ situations

Edited January 17, 2020 by ItGlub
Clarity

[Aramisaki]

I might as well post this here

Since Grendel dropped, I can't play any other frame anymore. He's too fun and I enjoy his overall playstyle a lot. That said, are you guys still iterating on changes with him, or do you think he's good as he is currently? I think all his skills could do with some tweaks and tuning; there's a lot of good feedback on this megathread, and some things I'd personally like to see(apologies in advance for the wall of text):
--Move current passive to Feast, give him a new passive(picking up resources/ammo/orbs/etc restores health?)

--Feast: Shift a considerable amount of power away from Feast and give it to Regurgitate, slightly increase both the width of Feast's succ cone and the speed at which enemies are consumed, to alleviate some issues he has when teamed with nuke frames like Saryn or Mesa. Then mitigate the exponential drain, adjusting static drain as well if necessary. Perhaps allow over-time energy restoration(e.g. Energizing Dash) and energy restores to work even with enemies in gut? There's a specific circumstance in which this works(holding Index points/Financial Stress status, drains energy over time but doesn't stop energy regen), and I believe Grendel could benefit enormously from that

 

--Nourish overall: The cast, regardless of whatever buff you trigger, could use a change or two. I think any one of the following would be good:

1. Make the stomp cause a radial knockdown
2. Have it heal a percentage of Grendel's HP, rather than the unpredictable static-ish amount it currently does depending on enemy level
3. If neither of the above, then cutting the animation time in half would do, to remove unnecessary clunkiness in supporting teammates. If Feast's energy consumption isn't changed for whatever reason, I'd advocate to reduce Nourish's energy cost as well.

Also, please give Nourish an ability wheel like Wisp/Vauban/Ivara.
Nourish Energy: mostly fine as is, I wouldn't mind a slightly higher base multiplier but that's asking for too much I'd say.
Nourish Strike: also fine, perhaps make it so that it doesn't interfere with allied elemental damage.
Nourish Armor: Oof, this one is less okay... Either have it grant actual armor, have the toxin stun wave pulse every second instead of pulsing only when you're hit, or change it to Nourish Health, which heals allies for some good amount of HP.

 

--Regurgitate: Not counting the shift of damage from Feast to this skill, in my opinion the only thing this skill would need is a toxin proc on hit. Perhaps holding the button would 'chk-chk' Grendel's gut for half a second before rapid-firing the enemies in his gut until you let go of the key? That could be a fun addition.

--Pulverize: Make it easier to handle/turn, and if possible make it so that the ball doesn't come to an abrupt halt because of tiny bumps in terrain. That kind of thing really breaks the flow of what is one of the most fun abilities in the game in my opinion, and also one that can be unthinkably useful and powerful, despite its critics.

[Redlove108]

-Grendel needs some kind of "about to vomit" sounds when his energy is running low (25%?) so we can hear when he's about to puke all his stored enemies.

-Feast needs a lower energy cost when having multiple enemies in his gut. That is his whole gimmick. If he drains his energy to 0 in 10 secs for just having 5 enemies, then this is bad and breaks his entire kit.

-Nourish really needs an ability wheel.

-Regurgitate needs a bigger splash on impact.

Pulverize needs to be more bouncy or have a faster acceleration. It is so easy to hit a little bump in the map and get all your momentum stopped. With some bounce that would just rock you upward. If he could bounce off walls that be even cooler and turn him from a bowling ball into a bouncing ball. Otherwise as is this needs bigger size/AOE overall just to feel effective with the energy drain it has.

[Lancars]

I'm trying to like grendel but it feels so clunky to use. All i can do it point to a lot of the issues people have posted and i have the same issue as well.

[SASoHBoss]

Grendel needs some more posts up so DE can hopefully give us some sweet grendel tweaks. I think his passive should become part of his 1 and a nice simple passive should take over. I'd like to see feast get an overlay that shows us what we are storing, but doesn't give us that toggle like other abilities. I think grendel needs his entire 3 reworked, because holding his 1 is a better version of it. I'd like his 3 to become his 4 and I'd like grendel to have a new ultimate. If it was my choice  I'd love to see grendel throw up a blackhole that smushes targets. And grendel can bowl into with his new 3.