DE please tone down Kuwa Lich armor scaling

[Dzarael]

My lich now at level 5 and it have so much armor, killing it feels like i'm thowing peas at the wall. He has weakness to slash and blast, my Tigris has both of them but still deals literally NO DAMAGE.

Here some idea how ho fix it:

1) Just reduce armor;

2)Take away status immunity;

3)Make that AMPs or operator abilities temporarily strip armor.

 

[Tovon]

I agree it's a problem but here's a mild solution, ignore displayed weaknesses and just go for corrosive damage, seems to work better. Of course that won't work if you get so unlucky as to have a lich completely immune to corrosive.

[Kalvorax]

I mean sure....especially since they are not affected by status

[Dzarael]

It not working my Tigris have corrosive/blast setup, damage still miserable. I assumed he has alloy armor and tried to damage it by radiaton, but still, no damage

[OmegaVoid]

Ash's Augment, Seeking Shuriken, does not appear to remove the armour either.

I haven't tried Shattering Impact yet.

[Tovon]

Well since that don't work for ya, I do know that kavats can strip their armor with the mod, unless DE changed that.

[BansheePrime]

It feels nice to have a new stupidly tough enemy that’s not immune to Sonar.

[taiiat]

it's not their Armor so much as it is that Liches kinda sorta do the Sentient Adaptation thing, and will therefore become more resistant the lower their Health gets.

[Bladereap3r]

...its the DE grind wall mechanic & that RNG factor after all. I've retired, more than my fill after 6 + years.  Onward and upward! Good peeps. ❤️

Edited November 9, 2019 by Bladereap3r

[akots]

Just use some fast melee, it works fine regardless of resistances for some reason. I had one of the liches with corrosive immunity and resistance to slash but was able to kill her with corrosive Nikana prime in a few seconds with Loki. Just in case, it is always a good idea to void blast with operator after each finisher. She was weak against puncture and blast but it seems to be somewhat irrelevant.

Edited November 8, 2019 by akots

[Salzstangl]

Please do NOT weaken them. There is very little "hard" content in this game for veterans. I see a lot friends and clanmates that stopped playing for lack of content or challenge "crawling out" to play warframe again.

If the liches are too hard there should be threads that can help you with build-suggestions. You can also play public and you will surely meet players that can help you (mostly).

If you are still building up your collection of frames and its out of your reach, you may want to have some sort of challenge left once you are more experienced

[Dzarael]

3 часа назад, Salzstangl сказал:

Please do NOT weaken them. There is very little "hard" content in this game for veterans. I see a lot friends and clanmates that stopped playing for lack of content or challenge "crawling out" to play warframe again.

If the liches are too hard there should be threads that can help you with build-suggestions. You can also play public and you will surely meet players that can help you (mostly).

If you are still building up your collection of frames and its out of your reach, you may want to have some sort of challenge left once you are more experienced

 1) I'm not asking for weaken, just for armor adjustment(this is situation similat to Wolf of Saturn Six);

2) I'm MR23 and I have most weapons and frames;

3) Builds doesn't matter, becose Tigris Prime, Arca Plasmor, 7 forma Catchmoon(Rubico Prime etc) deals ~0 damage at (primed)point blank range

 

[EinheriarJudith]

5 hours ago, Salzstangl said:

Please do NOT weaken them. There is very little "hard" content in this game for veterans. I see a lot friends and clanmates that stopped playing for lack of content or challenge "crawling out" to play warframe again.

If the liches are too hard there should be threads that can help you with build-suggestions. You can also play public and you will surely meet players that can help you (mostly).

If you are still building up your collection of frames and its out of your reach, you may want to have some sort of challenge left once you are more experienced

im MR27 with almost 6k hrs. Bullet Sponge =/= Challenge. dont know where you get the notion from. DE should be trying to add mechanics to them much like how they can kill if they grab you.

Edit: some even use skills on you like bullet attractor.

Edited November 8, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[Salzstangl]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Dzarael:

 1) I'm not asking for weaken, just for armor adjustment(this is situation similat to Wolf of Saturn Six);

2) I'm MR23 and I have most weapons and frames;

3) Builds doesn't matter, becose Tigris Prime, Arca Plasmor, 7 forma Catchmoon(Rubico Prime etc) deals ~0 damage at (primed)point blank range

 

Dont give up too easily. I messed up a lot of tries, but that is the point in having something challenging, right? Find a build that works for you, work together with friends or people you meet in public games. Its more fun together anyway. (All strong grineer-units have a lot of armor, the high survivability is probably intended)

Suggestion: Mesa, it is the most simple one in my opinion. Take a defensive build (umbra vitality/intensify + adaptation). For your pistols use radiation-element (most damage against alloy armor and usable with primed fire mod). Have your scattershield up and keep your distance (less then 50m). Then you cast your peacemaker and fire until he is dead (against lvl5 rad I need about 10-15 seconds for one life-segment).

Alternatives:
- Wisp. While there are better frames for solo, but she basically converts the whole team to tanky attackspeed-monsters
- Nova. The slow-effect protects you from other monsters and affects the lich as well. With the right build you can convert the small girl into a sick tank
- Volt. A nuke-build (similar to eso-build) can easily and fastly manage most mission-types. When shooting through his shields your weapon gets a crit-damage boost and you are safe from ranged attacks
- Chroma. The head->wall solution. A survivability making inaros wet and weapon damage-output only beaten by mirage afaik
- Wukong. He is tanky enough to resist every normal melee attack I have seen and can heal himself extremely fast. His long hard stick will destroy anything, just give it time to build up a combo

I didnt try slow shotguns, but automatic weapons tend to deal more consistent damage(more distance->less melee attacks). I am not skilled enough to shoot fast with a sniper and hit the head reliably. The strongest of my weapons is a Rattleguts (crit-build with hydraulic crosshair) with a mediocre riven-mod (which doesnt have crit) and radiation damage. Shooting through the shields of my volt I dont have problems killing the lichs. Still volt is squishy, so I die pretty often during the fight tbh.

[Dzarael]

1 час назад, Salzstangl сказал:

Dont give up too easily. I messed up a lot of tries, but that is the point in having something challenging, right? Find a build that works for you, work together with friends or people you meet in public games. Its more fun together anyway. (All strong grineer-units have a lot of armor, the high survivability is probably intended)

Suggestion: Mesa, it is the most simple one in my opinion. Take a defensive build (umbra vitality/intensify + adaptation). For your pistols use radiation-element (most damage against alloy armor and usable with primed fire mod). Have your scattershield up and keep your distance (less then 50m). Then you cast your peacemaker and fire until he is dead (against lvl5 rad I need about 10-15 seconds for one life-segment).

Alternatives:
- Wisp. While there are better frames for solo, but she basically converts the whole team to tanky attackspeed-monsters
- Nova. The slow-effect protects you from other monsters and affects the lich as well. With the right build you can convert the small girl into a sick tank
- Volt. A nuke-build (similar to eso-build) can easily and fastly manage most mission-types. When shooting through his shields your weapon gets a crit-damage boost and you are safe from ranged attacks
- Chroma. The head->wall solution. A survivability making inaros wet and weapon damage-output only beaten by mirage afaik
- Wukong. He is tanky enough to resist every normal melee attack I have seen and can heal himself extremely fast. His long hard stick will destroy anything, just give it time to build up a combo

I didnt try slow shotguns, but automatic weapons tend to deal more consistent damage(more distance->less melee attacks). I am not skilled enough to shoot fast with a sniper and hit the head reliably. The strongest of my weapons is a Rattleguts (crit-build with hydraulic crosshair) with a mediocre riven-mod (which doesnt have crit) and radiation damage. Shooting through the shields of my volt I dont have problems killing the lichs. Still volt is squishy, so I die pretty often during the fight tbh.

Dude, slow down a little bit, my complain is not Lich's damage, attack pattern, abilities, but about 1 particular thing: crap tonn of armor with messed-up ressist/weakness stat(probably it's a bug), and in result of it most of my weapon(which i invested time to acquire, farm mods and polarise) is useless now. DE went wisth lazyest aproach to difficulty, make Bullet-Sponge. Bullet-Sponges are boring and suck all fun of combat. And when i managen to finally kill it(abusing OP invis of Loki gg eazy) i didn't feel any good. And I dont like that after i kiiled it I have literally no reward for overcoming this "challenge", Kuwa weapons is good, but it's not enough(esspenially when i rolled same gun twice in a row).

So in conclusion I DO NOT ask to make Liches "eazy" just make killing them less of a chore, because difficult thing can be very fun but Bullet-Sponges is a not difficult it's lazy

[Salzstangl]

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Dzarael:

So in conclusion I DO NOT ask to make Liches "eazy" just make killing them less of a chore, because difficult thing can be very fun but Bullet-Sponges is a not difficult it's lazy

Fair enough. I, on the other hand, think that the liches are not bullet-sponges, just because a certain type of weapon and element is not working well to kill it. The liches have a broad range of attacks and tricks they use (depending on element), which qualifies them as "not lazy" in my eyes. The amount of survivability is not too extreme for a boss-enemy on level 120 (of course the ones using iron skin are more durable than the others).

[Dzarael]

3 минуты назад, Salzstangl сказал:

Fair enough. I, on the other hand, think that the liches are not bullet-sponges, just because a certain type of weapon and element is not working well to kill it. The liches have a broad range of attacks and tricks they use (depending on element), which qualifies them as "not lazy" in my eyes. The amount of survivability is not too extreme for a boss-enemy on level 120 (of course the ones using iron skin are more durable than the others).

Now they are bullet-sponges because all damage types I tried turn into peas(corr, poison, gas, rad, mag cold slash ets). This can be explained by bug caused by personal ressist/weakness stats added on top of armor's and it messed up calculations and results in less damage. And I again repeat myself I'M FINE WITH THEIR DESIGN EXCEPT FOR ARMOR SCALING(and only it I called lazy).

[Rev14]

They are not even that bullet sponge. Yes maybe, when you use a status weapon when they are immune to status. For exemple I use a basic build with my fulmin auto-mode and at level 5, it still died fast and I don't even bother with weakness. (I also tried the chakkhur, prisma twin gremlins and they work as well as the fulmin) 

For exemple, I tried the boar Prime too( a status weapon) and indeed, it sucks. 

 

But, yes, I'd like the liches to have more health but not being immune to status, to make status weapons more viable.

 

[DrivaMain]

17 hours ago, BansheePrime said:

It feels nice to have a new stupidly tough enemy that’s not immune to Sonar.

What have you done?? You just summoned the nerf hammer! Welp, inb4 hotfix

[DoomFruit]

14 hours ago, Salzstangl said:

(All strong grineer-units have a lot of armor, the high survivability is probably intended)

The thing about those heavily armoured units is that the game provides us with tools to help us remove that armour. Namely, corrosive and fire procs. Because of this, status-immune enemies are a shining example of terrible design - it's nothing more than "nuh-uh, I have a magic anti-everything shield".

[Salzstangl]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb DoomFruit:

The thing about those heavily armoured units is that the game provides us with tools to help us remove that armour. Namely, corrosive and fire procs. Because of this, status-immune enemies are a shining example of terrible design - it's nothing more than "nuh-uh, I have a magic anti-everything shield".

isnt that the same with most of the other boss-enemies? Maybe you can even try shattering impact. It was never fixed for bosses or even eidolon/profittaker... I dont use it coz its too easy and I personally dont like gunblades as melee-replacement

[DoomFruit]

58 minutes ago, Salzstangl said:

isnt that the same with most of the other boss-enemies? Maybe you can even try shattering impact. It was never fixed for bosses or even eidolon/profittaker... I dont use it coz its too easy and I personally dont like gunblades as melee-replacement

I do use SI. It goes on everything that I equip. Gunblades are completely unusable in their current incarnation, but they were already pretty crap after the first phase of the melee changes. I can still Orthos the armour out of most things (current loadout: corrosive, fire and SI - because I'm fed up with the broken armour scaling in this game), though I don't know what liches do if I get too close to them and I have absolutely no interest in creating one to find out.

[EinheriarJudith]

4 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

I do use SI. It goes on everything that I equip. Gunblades are completely unusable in their current incarnation, but they were already pretty crap after the first phase of the melee changes. I can still Orthos the armour out of most things (current loadout: corrosive, fire and SI - because I'm fed up with the broken armour scaling in this game), though I don't know what liches do if I get too close to them and I have absolutely no interest in creating one to find out.

they grab you and its pretty much insta downed unless you have some form of regen. they are almost melee proof unless you use invisibility.

[DoomFruit]

47 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

they grab you and its pretty much insta downed unless you have some form of regen. they are almost melee proof unless you use invisibility.

Right, that's even less incentive for me to try and create a lich.

[Uhkretor]

On 2019-11-08 at 4:46 AM, Dzarael said:

My lich now at level 5 and it have so much armor, killing it feels like i'm thowing peas at the wall. He has weakness to slash and blast, my Tigris has both of them but still deals literally NO DAMAGE.

Here some idea how ho fix it:

1) Just reduce armor;

2)Take away status immunity;

3)Make that AMPs or operator abilities temporarily strip armor.

I find it difficult that you are unable to deal damage with a Tigris Prime... (There's actually no point in using Tigris if you have Tigris Prime, so I'll just assume you're using Tigris Prime)

1) Its a Grineer. Armor scaling on them is a faction-wide problem.

2) Because your Tigris is full Status and no damage? Switch it and deal with it in 4 proper hits.

3) Simply doesn't make sense.

 

You should review your Tigris Prime build... Because I can ruin my lvl8 Lich in 3 hits with my regular Tigris.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Uhkretor