The lazy frames

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

5 hours ago, (XB1)UndeadGalaxyWar said:

This is the truth right here. Learn the mechanics and then judge. 

I wouldn't talk about them if I didn't.

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

4 hours ago, Shaburanigud said:

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BUT with that being said. I don't think we should erase that build

That lies with his base stats which we both haven't touched, the build will still very much be possible

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While I understand you don't like the 'Lazy Tank' build

Thank you🙂 someone who understands me😂

No its his skills that doesn't full fill his fantasy.
His skills are powerful but very clunky

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This can very make it too powerful or too weak depending on how you do it.

I wanted to make him functionally immortal but with the caveat he effectively has only four seconds to revive himself
 

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sarcophagus will siphon more life from enemies affected by his abilities 1,2 and 4.

You would then have to re-adjust how it revives you because it requires a percentage of an enemy's health to be drained to revive, I'd like to hear how you work that out
 

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This should stay the same. Yes it's overpowered, but it is his only ability that is powerful.

Which is why I tried to distribute some of what it does to his two and make it more of an enabler for synergies

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I feel this is too complicated

I tried.

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From now on, once he devoured an enemy, he can summon a sandshadow of that enemy at the cost of his health (percentage base).
5 at max, They will taunt enemies and fight until they die. When they die they will blind enemies (like his 1) within a small radius.

This is potentially better than what I came up with as long as they are not like Revenant's thralls

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I feel this just makes him Zephyr 2.0

My intention entirely😂

But yes he needs more control. Also this may have the potential to be a 'team player'
After all he is "The Protector". He defended a whole planet (Mars) with this until he died of exhaustion.
I suggest this: 
 

Quote

Sandstorm will now spend health instead of energy. He can use it until he dies.
The lower health Inaros has, he will gain more range, power, movement speed and dmg reduction on his 3.
Instead of just flinging enemies all around, Sandstorm will now trap affected enemies inside the vortex until he stops.
Once he stops all affected enemies will fling off toward the direction Inaros is looking.
All allies within the sandstorm will share Inaros' armor, dmg reduction and health recovery.
- Synergy: Enemies also affected by his 2 or 4 will allow Inaros to siphon health quickly. This can also be shared to teammates within the range of sandstorm

This can work although a suicide ability isn't going to sit well with people

 

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for Scarab Swarm, its actually quite a good and unique skill
Just not a really strong skill. I wouldn't mind if they leave it as it is.

My gripe is with the projectile aspect of it, it is borderline impossible to reap benefits from in squads in missions that don't have absurdly high level armored targets. I tried to make it scale his EHP with enemy level so that you scale his health or armor to even greater meme material levels
 

You'll find my comments in your quote, I got a bit lazy

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

Judging by Rio's glyph I'm guessing you're an endurance runner, don't slap me please but what I was referring to (more with Mesa) was that the business end abilities feel a bit detached. Upon further re-examination Saryn is ok as is, the solution I suggested would make your endurance runs easier slightly easier by making your gear determine Spores' damage this is a strong DPS buff for you but makes lower level balance even more of a  nightmare. I intended to change Mesa to make her more interactive and able to engage with more content (I had Eidolons and Orbs in mind)

 

I just tend to consider scaling and the full scope of a frame or weapon's performance. DE keeps it's players in the newbie zones baited with items but that doesn't mean the other stuff isn't there. Eventually a player stops caring about the rewards and either plays for fun or quits because Warframe offers little else.

Sadly that's how spores used to work. For some reason DE gave her a 4th rework to simplify it and turned her from a good team frame with good damage output and team damage amp into an anti-team frame that everyone seems to complain about now. RIP Venom Dose as well.

I made a post on another Topic about how DE should consider fundamentally changing all exalted weapons because their concept is flawed in that you either use them 100% of the time or never. I instead wanted to make them more mechanic and supercharged buffs. Excal would cause waves with any equipped melee along with auto-parry. Valkyr would have a rage mechanic and Mesa would probably buff the damage / fire rate and remove reload on any secondary weapon.

The lazy portion of Mesa I get and I do it myself but it changes at higher levels. She relies on the ramping of peacemaker and thus ends up shooting with a very small reticle which isn't much different than a normal gun. It's more that her performance is out of place for "typical" content.

You have valid points. I just tend to blame the game's design over the frame. For me everything is a snore these days.

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

and thats funny showing game zone which wasnt planned by developers (like they said - they dislike those stupid endurance runs) - and asking “is its interrsting” , sure its not, but its boring with any frame at this point. 

 

Those mission types hardly matter.

DE's Developers never said they dislike endurance runs. One specific staff member said it on Discord and it was an opinion.

If DE truly doesn't like endurance runs they should probably stop making event ladders and leaderboards because they're sending mixed signals. Summit who often got 1st place on PS4 event leaderboards only played for those. His name is immortalized on those lists in spite of DE eventually banning him for Photoshop. I wonder... Which matters more, how many Eidolon kills some rando has or getting 1st place in a contest for everyone to see even when you no longer play.

Maybe DE doesn't like Endurance runs. I wouldn't be surprised. We often show how fundamentally broken the game is and DE pretends otherwise.

[kwlingo]

Lets face it in the Warframe community we have more players who want the old Ember back and just let the game run for days on end and after a month come back to collect the rewards. The other group of players are those who would like a challenge like the Grendel mission. Ember lovers hated that mission while the one who wanted a challenge loved it. I have seen so many tread of why these frames or so OP/ Lazy/ one button Nuke rooms and enemies being brain dead. Seems like there needs to be an End Game mode that only the most skilled can acquire for rewards and the rest just let them sit in missions for weeks to collect loots of resource and credits. That would make use all happy.

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

2 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Lets face it in the Warframe community we have more players who want the old Ember back and just let the game run for days on end and after a month come back to collect the rewards. The other group of players are those who would like a challenge like the Grendel mission. Ember lovers hated that mission while the one who wanted a challenge loved it. I have seen so many tread of why these frames or so OP/ Lazy/ one button Nuke rooms and enemies being brain dead. Seems like there needs to be an End Game mode that only the most skilled can acquire for rewards and the rest just let them sit in missions for weeks to collect loots of resource and credits. That would make use all happy.

You know quite well at this point it is extremely unlikely to happen, but that would be real nice

[kwlingo]

4 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Those mission types hardly matter.

DE's Developers never said they dislike endurance runs. One specific staff member said it on Discord and it was an opinion.

If DE truly doesn't like endurance runs they should probably stop making event ladders and leaderboards because they're sending mixed signals. Summit who often got 1st place on PS4 event leaderboards only played for those. His name is immortalized on those lists in spite of DE eventually banning him for Photoshop. I wonder... Which matters more, how many Eidolon kills some rando has or getting 1st place in a contest for everyone to see even when you no longer play.

Maybe DE doesn't like Endurance runs. I wouldn't be surprised. We often show how fundamentally broken the game is and DE pretends otherwise.

Yes I have heard from one of the youtube videos stating that they didn't want players sitting in missions for over an hour. I think it was one of the interview clips. And yes it is broken when you have farmed everything and got all the rivens you wanted, there is nothing else to do in the game.

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

21 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

I just tend to consider scaling and the full scope of a frame or weapon's performance. DE keeps it's players in the newbie zones baited with items but that doesn't mean the other stuff isn't there. Eventually a player stops caring about the rewards and either plays for fun or quits because Warframe offers little else.

Sadly that's how spores used to work. For some reason DE gave her a 4th rework to simplify it and turned her from a good team frame with good damage output and team damage amp into an anti-team frame that everyone seems to complain about now. RIP Venom Dose as well.

I made a post on another Topic about how DE should consider fundamentally changing all exalted weapons because their concept is flawed in that you either use them 100% of the time or never. I instead wanted to make them more mechanic and supercharged buffs. Excal would cause waves with any equipped melee along with auto-parry. Valkyr would have a rage mechanic and Mesa would probably buff the damage / fire rate and remove reload on any secondary weapon.

The lazy portion of Mesa I get and I do it myself but it changes at higher levels. She relies on the ramping of peacemaker and thus ends up shooting with a very small reticle which isn't much different than a normal gun. It's more that her performance is out of place for "typical" content.

You have valid points. I just tend to blame the game's design over the frame. For me everything is a snore these days.

Burnt out huh, I can feel it from here😂 but yeah in order for any balance to exist the core of the game has to be redone but the task is as monumental as Rhino's "feature"

[selig_fay]

2 минуты назад, kwlingo сказал:

Seems like there needs to be an End Game mode that only the most skilled can acquire for rewards and the rest just let them sit in missions for weeks to collect loots of resource and credits. That would make use all happy.

Any player can kill enemy 9999 level without special problems using OP frames. Therefore, it is unclear what exactly will be the challenge. 

They could go the BnS way and introduce a dungeon system with unique boss mechanics. Then the scaling problem would disappear because it would be fixed missions.

[kwlingo]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

You know quite well at this point it is extremely unlikely to happen, but that would be real nice

I know.

I dont play Destiny 2 but after seening how the enemies interact with the players, Ive actually started to think about getting the game. Maybe if things are not so great I'll come back to Warframe after a few weeks when they fix the RNG for Lich weapons. lol

[kwlingo]

7 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Any player can kill enemy 9999 level without special problems using OP frames. Therefore, it is unclear what exactly will be the challenge. 

They could go the BnS way and introduce a dungeon system with unique boss mechanics. Then the scaling problem would disappear because it would be fixed missions.

The ability to get insta-killed in mission therefore it changes the one shot everything in open room to... more thinking and tactic game play with enemies with a different AI system for those high tared mission. Not just weapon and enemy armor and damage scaling. Who knows? So many games out there for ideas, End Game shouldn't feel like playing a normal mission.

Edited November 19, 2019 by kwlingo

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

7 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Any player can kill enemy 9999 level without special problems using OP frames. Therefore, it is unclear what exactly will be the challenge. 

They could go the BnS way and introduce a dungeon system with unique boss mechanics. Then the scaling problem would disappear because it would be fixed missions.

That's the sort of thing I hope for, I personally would love a boss that will have me push the parkour system as far as I can like Conclave but balanced

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

2 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

The ability to get insta-killed in mission therefore it changes the one shot everything in open room to... more thinking and tactic game play with enemies with a different AI system for those high tared mission. Not just weapon and enemy armor and damage scaling. Who knows? So many games out there for ideas, End Game shouldn't feel like playing a normal mission.

Maybe a unique variant of normal missions, I have an idea for an endgame capture mission that I'll put up somewhere when I've figured out how to string my words

[Shaburanigud]

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

You would then have to re-adjust how it revives you because it requires a percentage of an enemy's health to be drained to revive, I'd like to hear how you work that out

I was simply thinking that it would start dealing true dmg based on ability strength + the extra healing from the abilities(2 & 4) added.
So instead of Inaros reviving based on how much of a percentage of an enemy's health is drained, he revives purely based on how much he heals himself within that window of time
(writing this down made me realize it isn't that different from yours though lol)

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

This is potentially better than what I came up with as long as they are not like Revenant's thralls

 THX 🙂 I'm thinking of emphasizing on the 'death causes radial blind' would make it less like Revenant's thralls and be more useful
Suicidal Bomb servants if you will.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

 

Quote

Sandstorm will now spend health instead of energy. He can use it until he dies.
The lower health Inaros has, he will gain more range, power, movement speed and dmg reduction on his 3.
Instead of just flinging enemies all around, Sandstorm will now trap affected enemies inside the vortex until he stops.
Once he stops all affected enemies will fling off toward the direction Inaros is looking.
All allies within the sandstorm will share Inaros' armor, dmg reduction and health recovery.
- Synergy: Enemies also affected by his 2 or 4 will allow Inaros to siphon health quickly. This can also be shared to teammates within the range of sandstorm

This can work although a suicide ability isn't going to sit well with people

Hmm maybe.
But to be fair it is the only ability he displayed in his lore, and he did it quite epic-ly.
If we make the growth and scale of Sandstorm considerablly impactful based on this, I think it would match his lore, fulfill his sand god protector fantasy, and be useful all at once.
For example, if the sandstorm covers a 60m radius with 200% movement speed with 95% dmg reduction when he has below 5% health, I think it would compensate for being a suicide ability.
Sure we could just decrease his energy cost, but why not make it more interesting when the lore already shows you how it can be done?

 

I like these kinds of threads. They might not be productive but they are really constructive.
I do hope DE watches these. 
Especially since Inaros will have his prime next year.

[Teridax68]

It is impressive how a player can produce literal video evidence supporting their point, and still get talked down by others who are clearly arguing with no factual basis. I can agree with Mako that the frames mentioned by the OP aren't the only lazy ones out there, but I also believe those four are nonetheless the pinnacle of lazy gameplay in the current state of Warframe. Put simply, three among those four frames can mass-murder enemies with little to no effort (Octavia in particular makes the game play itself via her automated deployables), and Inaros has so much health he can literally go AFK with the right build and still not die, even against high-level enemies. None of this is really okay, and we've been seeing the negative in-game consequences for some time. Saryn, Mesa, and Octavia need to change to not be able to kill enemies without effort, and Inaros I think simply needs a reduction in health, albeit with buffs to his abilities.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I made a post on another Topic about how DE should consider fundamentally changing all exalted weapons because their concept is flawed in that you either use them 100% of the time or never. I instead wanted to make them more mechanic and supercharged buffs. Excal would cause waves with any equipped melee along with auto-parry. Valkyr would have a rage mechanic and Mesa would probably buff the damage / fire rate and remove reload on any secondary weapon.

Neat idea.

[Arcira]

Pretty much all warframes are "lazy". Take Nidus for example: press 3 and 1 a bunch of time and voila all enemies are dead and you are immortal on top. Warframe isn´t made for reactive gameplay. Neither abilities nor enemies behaviour support this.

And the best example for this are the new Grendel part missions. Not a single warframe provides skill dependend gameplay you either cheese or brute force those missions.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Arcira

[Vyra]

Im Happy Octavia exists, its a good way to get thing done ...
Saryn is not powerful enough to me...since she gets 1 shot easily on higher levels...unlike octavia who is just invisibru and good...

 

[Xzorn]

7 hours ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

Burnt out huh, I can feel it from here😂 but yeah in order for any balance to exist the core of the game has to be redone but the task is as monumental as Rhino's "feature"

 

I'm not sure it's burn out. I haven't really played or made any videos in a year. Warframe has just turned into a game I don't really enjoy much.

I started Endurance runs because I enjoy making builds, theory crafting and learning mechanics to further improve. That is why we get mods n such isn't it?

For the most part Warframe no longer lends to what I found most appealing about it in the 7 years I played. They've gone the route of lazy layered out RNG in quick repetitive spam sessions. Pretty similar to mobile phone techniques. They claim players don't want to spend a long time in missions when plenty are fine with 20-40 minute runs long as there's a reason. It's the 3h+ that few want to do and that's on DE for not opposing Power Creep.

Warframe has become a game of newbie content and DE ignores it's Veteran's interests. Veterans helped make some of the best content in the game but now DE thinks they know better. Maybe for making money but not for keeping it's players. They're losing their most devout players, streamers and youtubers. For once in all this time I can feel the fall coming for Warframe. I hope for DE's sake they remember all those years of pleas for harder content and a better core design.

[kwlingo]

3 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

It is impressive how a player can produce literal video evidence supporting their point, and still get talked down by others who are clearly arguing with no factual basis. I can agree with Mako that the frames mentioned by the OP aren't the only lazy ones out there, but I also believe those four are nonetheless the pinnacle of lazy gameplay in the current state of Warframe. Put simply, three among those four frames can mass-murder enemies with little to no effort (Octavia in particular makes the game play itself via her automated deployables), and Inaros has so much health he can literally go AFK with the right build and still not die, even against high-level enemies. None of this is really okay, and we've been seeing the negative in-game consequences for some time. Saryn, Mesa, and Octavia need to change to not be able to kill enemies without effort, and Inaros I think simply needs a reduction in health, albeit with buffs to his abilities.

Agreed. This is why these days I find myself on forums more then actual game because we need something to bring Warframe back in the Top 10 of steam. DE has made this laziness a Warframe community mentality. Thats why so many hate the new Lich fights.

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

Pretty much all warframes are "lazy". Take Nidus for example: press 3 and 1 a bunch of time and voila all enemies are dead and you are immortal on top. Warframe isn´t made for reactive gameplay. Neither abilities nor enemies behaviour support this.

And the best example for this are the new Grendel part missions. Not a single warframe provides skill dependend gameplay you either cheese or brute force those missions.

Looping key presses could be seen as one of the facets of laziness but I wasn't going for too much of a multi faceted approach in this post otherwise I would have ended up listing every frame except maybe Banshee. My approach (except with Saryn) was how many buttons do these frames have to press to get things which is normally one sometimes two (in the case of Inaros it's easily none😅)  which for me is not good, I like a feeling of involvement in making a frame effective during a mission. Nidus for example while repetitive you are involved in his evolution which is a win according to my criterion of player involvement

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

It is impressive how a player can produce literal video evidence supporting their point, and still get talked down by others who are clearly arguing with no factual basis. I can agree with Mako that the frames mentioned by the OP aren't the only lazy ones out there, but I also believe those four are nonetheless the pinnacle of lazy gameplay in the current state of Warframe. Put simply, three among those four frames can mass-murder enemies with little to no effort (Octavia in particular makes the game play itself via her automated deployables), and Inaros has so much health he can literally go AFK with the right build and still not die, even against high-level enemies. None of this is really okay, and we've been seeing the negative in-game consequences for some time. Saryn, Mesa, and Octavia need to change to not be able to kill enemies without effort, and Inaros I think simply needs a reduction in health, albeit with buffs to his abilities.

You sir understand the essence of this post, thank you

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, kwlingo said:

Yes I have heard from one of the youtube videos stating that they didn't want players sitting in missions for over an hour. I think it was one of the interview clips. And yes it is broken when you have farmed everything and got all the rivens you wanted, there is nothing else to do in the game.

 

Even if that's the case it's not like players who sit in missions for over an hour actually want to do that. There's a purpose behind those runs.

Endurance runs get you to a sweet spot of difficulty the rest of the game is devoid of. I stopped doing then because 3h is asking too much just to test a build. 6 years ago a 40 min Solo was considered a good run. It's DE's own fault players stay longer and longer and their alternative is to spam the same 5 min missions? C'mon.

It also shows exactly where our power performance actually is these days and it sure as hell isn't lvl 100. It's a window of game play where these "lazy" frames don't exist. AoE spam kills don't exist and player bother to cooperate or when Solo get the most out of their builds and knowledge of the game. I dare say, there's precious spot where the game actually works well if only for a moment. That's of course Solo. Groups will never see that. It's impossible to challenge a determined group these days.

[CephalonSolo]

On 2019-11-18 at 11:23 PM, Melanholic7 said:

After i saw ur “Octavia isnt played often cause she is op and thats boring” a laughted and understood that ur post is fluff and shouldnt be taken as serious thoughts.  

Cause Octavia 1) lack of survivability - except her invis she is super squish framw 2) Her buffs are clunky to use. Invis is okeish to activate. 3) Her ult is helpful on station missions and thats all.  

She is just not good enough to use her often. 🙂  

Inaros it the only one lazyframe and thats GOOD. Cause there should be at least one such frame. This makes him unique. He isnt scaried of nullifiers, he doesnt need to worry about using skills , u czn just take him and play with ur weapons, not frame skills. Thats awesome. And only nab will compare him to Hild, cause her shields sucks - shields are not working with armor (my inaros has 2500 armor which is huge DR), and shields wont stop dmg types like toxin so lol - really, comparing this weak thing to Inaros??

Soo.. u didn't made Grendel missions solo with Octavia or hyldrin ? Octavia is a God Warframe as limbo , but a lot easier to use just keep pressing crouch and you are invisible ( invisible in this game means immortal since the only way to die is taken dmg from self dmg or enemy fire on your friends.. and still that is super hard cause most of weapon have not projectile but hitscan )

[CephalonSolo]

On 2019-11-19 at 5:14 AM, Hellmaker2004 said:

Saryn, spore spreading lazy.
Wat

If it was "Saryn Toxic Lash is Lazy" i could understand it, or "Saryn and Miasma" is Lazy then sure. But spore?

I mean sure if you build spore that deal no damage with no status chance then they will manage themselves and spread, a shame they will not do jack S#&$ as well.

My saryn have max range and 110 ability strength , after 2 second , the other guy in my team in Eso stop playing whyle the spores keep coming out for the massive range, I never get a reset because range... I can solo till Eso lv 9 killing only 9dnemies with my weapon(to spread spores) after that I run hiding whyle healing my self with her 2 , isn't lazy this kind of gameplay?