Ivara's Navigator

[Biddion]

This ability needs an overhaul. Give it the bladestorm treatment, but with (non-auto) bows and throwing weapons only. Press 2, move around, highlight enemies, shoot, and watch the projectile find its target heat-seeker-like. Let it work with Artemis Bow and cernos prime, but at a higher cost with each non-multishot projectile.

I think this could be really fun with throwing knives.

[Tanayy]

7 minutes ago, Biddion said:

This ability needs an overhaul. Give it the bladestorm treatment, but with (non-auto) bows and throwing weapons only. Press 2, move around, highlight enemies, shoot, and watch the projectile find its target heat-seeker-like. Let it work with Artemis Bow and cernos prime, but at a higher cost with each non-multishot projectile.

I think this could be really fun with throwing knives.

Would be interesting to change this. Throwing knives concept sounds fun to play with.

[Walkampf]

I think the idea is boring, since it whould be, well, just another Bladestorm.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I do agree that here 2nd ability needs some QOL changes. If I were to improve it, this is what I would do.

·       Mods on weapons do not affect the speed of the projectile.

·       Decrease the energy cost from 5 energy per second (including when controlling projectile) to 2 energy per second.

·       Pressing the fire button will now have 3 different acceleration speed options.

·       Using this automatically has a punch-through of 1.0.

·       Make the doors open when projectile goes near them.

·       This ability can be cast on the move.

[(XBOX)yepbeeble]

58 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

I think the idea is boring, since it whould be, well, just another Bladestorm.

I agree. But, his idea isn't completely lost in translation. I think he's describing something like Red Dead Redemption 2's dead eye mechanic (Or Fallout's mechanic like it, I can't remember what it's called.)

[Colyeses]

An idea that occurred to me a short while ago is to have Navigator be -more- fire and forget. Activate it, fire a projectile, and have it automatically home in on enemies, bouncing around and stabbing people. Have the AI do the navigation while Ivara continues general play. It might make it a slightly more interesting and more efficient ability.

[(PSN)NemitheNem]

Could be great augments, tbh. 

[Vyra]

I tried to use it but its easier just spamming melee instead of slowly dmg enemies..lol

 

[BlindStalker]

It doesn't need to be overhauled. Navigator, for all of its bugginess (especially when playing as client instead of host) isn't that bad. Its a situational ability. Its the real reason why Ivara is even accepted into Eidolon hunting and I don't want to see this ability be given up. People need to understand that navigator does synergize with Ivara's kit when using it with her quiver arrows and projectile based weapons. Yes the number of weapons that synergize well with navigator is very limiting (and DE needs to provide us with more options), but I would rather keep Navigator's 500% damage buff since it really defines that Ivara is a 'technical glass cannon'. Without navigator, Ivara loses some of that specialty that she has in her kit. I'm against drastically changing navigator as is because I love that damage buff (even if its wonky at times).

Alternatively, I have a different proposal. Bake 'Piercing Navigator' into Ivara's kit which would then free up the augment and allow for something new to be created in its place instead. Its obvious that 'Piercing navigator' is probably Ivara's least used augment (there's only one type of build that realistically makes use of it). But in order to preserve that type of build, (and to further emphasize to players that Ivara is a 'glass cannon') baking PN's augment into Ivara's kit would further emphasis that feeling 

Edited November 19, 2019 by BlindStalker

[Vyra]

In general i wish Warframes had more than 1 Kit...so we can take out abilities and change them for others we actually wanna use.

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

2 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

It doesn't need to be overhauled. Navigator, for all of its bugginess (especially when playing as client instead of host) isn't that bad. Its a situational ability. Its the real reason why Ivara is even accepted into Eidolon hunting and I don't want to see this ability be given up. People need to understand that navigator does synergize with Ivara's kit when using it with her quiver arrows and projectile based weapons. Yes the number of weapons that synergize well with navigator is very limiting (and DE needs to provide us with more options), but I would rather keep Navigator's 500% damage buff since it really defines that Ivara is a 'technical glass cannon'. Without navigator, Ivara loses some of that specialty that she has in her kit. I'm against drastically changing navigator as is because I love that damage buff (even if its wonky at times).

Alternatively, I have a different proposal. Bake 'Piercing Navigator' into Ivara's kit which would then free up the augment and allow for something new to be created in its place instead. Its obvious that 'Piercing navigator' is probably Ivara's least used augment (there's only one type of build that realistically makes use of it). But in order to preserve that type of build, (and to further emphasize to players that Ivara is a 'glass cannon') baking PN's augment into Ivara's kit would further emphasis that feeling 

I agree Navigator should remain largely as is because it is situational but when the situation arises it is excellent

 

2 hours ago, Vyra said:

In general i wish Warframes had more than 1 Kit...so we can take out abilities and change them for others we actually wanna use.

If you mean swapping out abilities between frames then that kills the identities of each individual frame, if you mean giving frames more than 4 abilities specific to them that you swap them around between missions it will make conceptualising synergies a pain and I much prefer functional well implemented synergies over having more abilities

Edited November 19, 2019 by (PS4)RazorPhoenix970

[Vyra]

1 hour ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

I agree Navigator should remain largely as is because it is situational but when the situation arises it is excellent

 

If you mean swapping out abilities between frames then that kills the identities of each individual frame, if you mean giving frames more than 4 abilities specific to them that you swap them around between missions it will make conceptualising synergies a pain and I much prefer functional well implemented synergies over having more abilities

I mean at least different sets.

[TheLexiConArtist]

The current Navigator is limited primarily by three things:

Control

The speed of projectiles differing per weapon, and only having two speeds available (initial and More Zoomy) makes many use cases inviable. When looking for fine control, you have to limit the initial speed somehow (such as catching a bow's arrow AFTER it punches through something and loses most momentum).

This should be solved by A) Standardising the speed of Navigated projectiles and B) Adding a greater selection of speeds which increments and decrements with Fire and Aim respectively This could be either 3 or 5 speed depending on the fine control or Excess Fast desirable.

Cost

Previously to Grendel and the Ember rework, Navigator was the only ability with an exponentially scaling cost over time. Unlike Grendel and Ember, Ivara cannot move to pick up energy while Navigating, making this restriction completely unnecessary and begs the question why it was added in the first place. A stationary warframe can already only sustain a channel for so long.

This scaling cost needs to be removed and replaced with a flat per-second drain.

Antisynergy

The Duration Antisynergy problem is thus: You cannot reach high power output Navigation without sub-par duration - adding duration makes the ability worse, you have to wait around and beg for the scaling cost to increase before you're up to speed. In the opposite, going low-duration makes Ivara's primary defensive option of stealth difficult to sustain, and both options still suffer from the Cost Problem by either forcing more Navigation time for costs to scale, or a higher base drain which is scaled up.

This needs to be rectified by either removing the 'damage multiplier scaling' mechanic entirely, standardising it (either to percentage of the max or by tying its value to Strength as well as Duration) or just make it scale with duration, not against duration.

 

These are the core changes needed to make Navigator a fun and more globally useful tool for projectile-weapon based gameplay.

[XxYuGixX5]

i think before they do any of this, i'd like it to stop kicking me off my falcor first

[Ikusias]

On 2019-11-19 at 1:48 PM, Biddion said:

This ability needs an overhaul. Give it the bladestorm treatment, but with (non-auto) bows and throwing weapons only. Press 2, move around, highlight enemies, shoot, and watch the projectile find its target heat-seeker-like. Let it work with Artemis Bow and cernos prime, but at a higher cost with each non-multishot projectile.

I think this could be really fun with throwing knives.

It would be a very nice augment, kudos if DE made it work as a switch between standard navigator and homing barrage mode

[Ikusias]

12 hours ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

i think before they do any of this, i'd like it to stop kicking me off my falcor first

Glaives have a maximum flight range after wich they get recalled to avoid disarming your frame permanently if the weapon flyies trough a hole in the level...

i presume that that's what is kicking you out of navigator actually

[Test-995]

It could be the ability for "hold" navigator, like, you can use current navigator with tapping, and also use another navigator with hold.

[XxYuGixX5]

On 2019-11-23 at 5:10 PM, Ikusias said:

Glaives have a maximum flight range after wich they get recalled to avoid disarming your frame permanently if the weapon flyies trough a hole in the level...

i presume that that's what is kicking you out of navigator actually

no it's always at 10 seconds, and only if i'm not the host, even if i were to circle my warframe and never go more than 10m away

[XxYuGixX5]

 

15 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

no it's always at 10 seconds, and only if i'm not the host, even if i were to circle my warframe and never go more than 10m away

plus when i am host i can fly it as far as i want limited only by energy

[BlindStalker]

5 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

 

plus when i am host i can fly it as far as i want limited only by energy

What you're experiencing is the host client bug on glaives that I've been trying to get DE to fix for ages now.

Please bump this thread to get DE's attention.

 

[H.Katsura_999]

I just wish the map would orient around the projectile you're controlling instead of the stationed Ivara, so you can actually track another target via radar.

Anyway, I dont agree on letting the game's AI control your projectile.

AI is extremely stup.... questionable. Just look at the Buzlok with its tracking feature.

Right now navigator is actually good and it's extremely versatile, given you're proficient enough to use it. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by H.Katsura_999

[Ikusias]

1 hour ago, H.Katsura_999 said:

I just wish the map would orient around the projectile you're controlling instead of the stationed Ivara, so you can actually track another target via radar.

 

I'd like that improvement as well... pity it wouldn't make sense because there aren't sensor on the weapon you're controlling, only void sorcery!

[XxYuGixX5]

44 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

I'd like that improvement as well... pity it wouldn't make sense because there aren't sensor on the weapon you're controlling, only void sorcery!

enemy radar already doesnt make sense. I get all my radar from my kavat, who's usually half the map away attacking something, same with vacuum/fetch. projectile-centered map would be a very nice improvement

[H.Katsura_999]

50 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

I'd like that improvement as well... pity it wouldn't make sense because there aren't sensor on the weapon you're controlling, only void sorcery!

Basically, DE can make it happen if we wish hard enough.

 

[XxYuGixX5]

I'd also like to be able to put a mark down where my camera is aiming while in navigator