With Ivara Prime on the horizon, here is the comprehensive overview of shortfalls that should be investigated and addressed.

[Xzorn]

31 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

That's pretty misleading. You made up your own contributions for the gold trophy while alone, perhaps, but you didn't solo-gold. Considering the event points were rated on both time-to-kill and concurrent console activity, it's incredibly unlikely that you could camp on the consoles and keep killing that long without an autokill or scaled damage. And I'm pretty sure Demos were finisher immune, so CL was obviously out.

 

No. I'm the only active member most the time in the Clan.

I got the number of points needed Solo or in most events 90% of required points and it's hardly the first Event I've done that. I did it for Rathuum, Ambulas, Defection, Index (though that didn't have a trophy), Specters of Liberty, ect. Only one I didn't bother was Breeding Grounds. I enjoy Soloing this game's "group" content in fact. Demos never got to move the moment I saw them and nothing ever shot me the entire mission. Towards the end it took a good minute to kill one but there was never any danger.

Just a big magical DR enemy that kept trying to dispell Sleep only to have it instantly applied again before they got out of the waking animation.

I never bothered to do that mission type after the Event.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Xzorn

[DatDarkOne]

18 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I enjoy Soloing this game's "group" content in fact.

As do I.  It still amazes me how people still think this game is Co-op only when damn near everything is soloable.  I will also enjoy Railjack solo too unless DE blocks it in the same way they did the old Raids.  

[Xzorn]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

As do I.  It still amazes me how people still think this game is Co-op only when damn near everything is soloable.  I will also enjoy Railjack solo too unless DE blocks it in the same way they did the old Raids.  

 

Lol yea I mentioned that the other day (or yesterday?) If I'm not busy with new Path league which is in 5 days I'll be finding ways to Solo all of that.

Warframe is pretty anti-coop most the time IMO. The only reason to have players in the group is faster loot not because you actually need them.

[TheLexiConArtist]

13 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

No. I'm the only active member most the time in the Clan.

I got the number of points needed Solo or in most events 90% of required points and it's hardly the first Event I've done that. I did it for Rathuum, Ambulas, Defection, Index (though that didn't have a trophy), ect. I enjoy Soloing this game's "group" content in fact. Demos never got to move the moment I saw them and nothing ever shot me the entire mission. Towards the end it took a good minute to kill one but there was never any danger outside Health Drain status.

Just a big magical DR enemy that kept trying to dispell Sleep only to have it instantly applied again before they got out of the waking animation.

I never bothered to do that mission type after the Event.

I do much the same, and I respect that. But in much of the recent event content it's been solo-unfriendly, at least to reach beyond entry-level. I can see Ambulas and Rathuum being possible to solo-gold. I know I did Rathuum personally, though I think for convenience and time's sake I ran pickup group for Ambulas (however I had solved the scaling problem for the solo approach, figuring out the status vulnerability logic to handle the armour on the Ambulas units themselves). Defection and Disruption, however, you weren't touching clan gold alone - unless Loki-exploiting the latter, which got summarily fixed.

_{Defection was a special catastrophe to personally score for even when in a pub group, I'm lucky I could pull my ex-clanmate out of retirement to tip me over the edge and earn that research.}

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

As do I.  It still amazes me how people still think this game is Co-op only when damn near everything is soloable.  I will also enjoy Railjack solo too unless DE blocks it in the same way they did the old Raids.  

It's not a hard block, but judging by the devstream, we're going to be soft-locked out of it until the second round of updates gives us AI crew. Or at the very least, progress will be glacial as we try to struggle to viability through sheer numbers as we hunt those upgrades.

The Stealth module should help a ton though. Fingers crossed for all of us finding that one sooner than later, but I expect they'll probably gate that one behind the harder content to make it self-defeating.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

figuring out the status vulnerability logic to handle the armour on the Ambulas units themselves

I just brute forced Ambulas with Artemis Bow or Magnetize him with Mag if i'm in a group.  

Defection was fairly easy back then with Ember before her nerf.  

6 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

The Stealth module should help a ton though. Fingers crossed for all of us finding that one sooner than later, but I expect they'll probably gate that one behind the harder content to make it self-defeating.

Oh you mean like the Stealth module for Mining which can't be gotten until after you've already mined your way higher in Cetus/fortuna rank.  Or maybe like the unlimited scanner widget you can get after scanning tons of things to get Simaris rank.  Or maybe the giant circle jerk that is amps from faming eidolons to make hunting eidolons easier to just farm for more amps. Yeah, I'm really excited to hear there might be a Stealth Module for Railjack.  NOT! 

[Xzorn]

22 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I do much the same, and I respect that. But in much of the recent event content it's been solo-unfriendly, at least to reach beyond entry-level. I can see Ambulas and Rathuum being possible to solo-gold. I know I did Rathuum personally, though I think for convenience and time's sake I ran pickup group for Ambulas (however I had solved the scaling problem for the solo approach, figuring out the status vulnerability logic to handle the armour on the Ambulas units themselves). Defection and Disruption, however, you weren't touching clan gold alone - unless Loki-exploiting the latter, which got summarily fixed.

 

Rathuum was just perma Hysteria Valkyr with ground pounds. Not proud of that but got it done easy enough.

Ambulas was easy. I just used Nyx the ex-Defense Queen and a Shattering Impact Gas + Electric melee on Ambulas itself. Lesion if I recall.

Defection was also easy. Trinity still completely negates the entire mission's mechanics with Blessing so you don't actually have to kill anything.

Same with Disruption. Demos where just sponges you had most the time in the world to down since nothing else matters.

I kinda became disinterested in Clan events after the PoE one where pretty much the opposite was the case. Any Joe Shmoe could get it.

[BlindStalker]

5 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Energy pads and don't fail those ones. Same with the Life drain ones.

I did that Event solo for the gold Clan trophy using Ivara. It was excruciatingly slow but easy.

I remember that event vividly, doing it solo for myself (but my clan ended up actually partaking in it last minute as well).

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm finding this a bit hard to believe you did a solo gold run with Ivara only. Are you sure it was Ivara you did this run with? Did you happen to take a screenshot or something after completing it?

I'm remembering how far one had to get into this event. If you activated multiple consoles, you increased your points gain but ran the risk of the demo coming from any direction because they could actually potentially attack any one of the active consoles at that point. Plus, being in prowl mode (or any invisibility mode that isn't Octavia's) dampens the sound around you which makes it a bit harder to locate the demo more quickly since you'll actually hear first before you'll see the blinking red nully bubble/red target. Realistically speaking, you had to have run to around round 20 or so to get to 24,000 points.

I thought you originally told me you were using Artemis Bow for that event? But I'm sure I'm mistaken on that part. Looking back, you would've had to probably have faced a demo around level 350 give or take to reach around the 24,000 points mark for gold. I think even you told me, Artemis Bow would've struggled to have taken down an enemy at that level. I can understand though, if you weren't using Artemis Bow as the kill weapon (other weapons would've scaled better I'm sure). What was your weapon combo setup for scaling?

Now if you hit an energy drain curse that late into the rounds, Ivara was basically screwed. You would've had to drop a cloak arrow and frantically started deploying a massive amount of energy pads to just keep her energy pool active. I remember how that curse worked, it actually drained even faster if you ended up trying to use energy pads. That would've kept you busy and trying to keep her energy pool topped off. On top of that, the demo with its nullfying bubble, could dispel sleep arrows, and actually develops sleep arrow resistance upon subsequent casts, meaning that sleep arrow's timer gets reduced upon each cast. So, I'm having a hard time believing you didn't fail an energy round at least once during the run. Yes Ivara isn't going to struggle against the non-demo enemies, but she'll struggle against that one specific curse. And that one curse alone, makes Ivara much more harder to manage compared to the other stealth frames, which makes it even harder for me to believe that you would've genuinely chosen Ivara over your main stealth frame Loki for this event. At least against that specific curse, Loki can still spam many energy pizzas while being invisible.

For this solo run, did you take some sort of screenshot at the end or record some video of it? Surely you would've since that would have been an impressive run solo, especially with Ivara. I know you're good, I'm just wanting to ask if you could walk us again through your setup with how you completed this run with Ivara. Please, I genuinely want to know how you got through it all with Ivara.

Edited December 8, 2019 by BlindStalker

[Xzorn]

14 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

-snip-

 

Ivara wasn't my first pick at the time no but it either bugged or wiped that run so I had to do it again. Summit had the same problem.

I used a mix of Concentrated Arrow, Lanka and Euphona Prime buffed with Navigator off augmented Dashwire. All Viral Builds. The whole thing was just one big damage push. I never did more than one console at a time. The Zenurik Void Blast also helped since it would slow them. Spent probably 100 energy and health pads doing it over around 3-4 hours though I don't recall any Sleep resistance. It worked the same every time. You just had to time the dispell bubble to applications. I used Elevate x1 and Lockdown x1.

No screenshots Last Even screenshot I took was The Index and they changed it so much lvl 300 with 120 points doesn't even make sense anymore.

[BlindStalker]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

Ivara wasn't my first pick at the time no but it either bugged or wiped that run so I had to do it again. Summit had the same problem.

I used a mix of Concentrated Arrow, Lanka and Euphona Prime buffed with Navigator off augmented Dashwire. All Viral Builds. The whole thing was just one big damage push. I never did more than one console at a time. The Zenurik Void Blast also helped since it would slow them. Spent probably 100 energy and health pads doing it over around 3-4 hours though I don't recall any Sleep resistance. It worked the same every time. You just had to time the dispell bubble to applications. I used Elevate x1 and Lockdown x1.

No screenshots Last Even screenshot I took was The Index and they changed it so much lvl 300 with 120 points doesn't even make sense anymore.

May I please ask about further questions in relation to builds?

• Was your Ivara build for the run this build at the top that you've shown me before (in spoiler)? And Artemis Bow?

Spoiler

Was it config A? Or did you modify it more before running?

I'm guessing you modded Artemis Bow differently though. The previous screenshot you had sent me for Artemis Bow for viral was geared more towards grineer with the bane mod. Unless that was the only mod you switched out? At least, I'm guessing you changed Artemis Bow a little for this event run?

 

• Of the weapons used which one ended up lasting until the end? The Lanka, the Euphona or Artemis Bow? I know you said you used a mix, but I'm guessing one of those weapons started to last longer than the others and started to do most of the heavy lifting? I'm guessing the Lanka?  Correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption however.
• May I ask about the builds for the Lanka and Euphona Prime that were used for this run? You said pure viral, but may I ask about specific mods please? Hunter munitions also in the mix too perhaps?
• I can understand taking hours to do it, if going one conduit at a time (that was actually my first approach too, going one conduit at a time before switching to trying two conduits at a time). The energy drain rounds towards the very end would have been great I imagine though (I do remember those rounds very vividly as those were the ones that got my heart racing frequently). Did you still use navigator on those energy drain rounds? Navigator would've drained quite a lot while also under the influence of energy drain. Or would you have just relied primarily on using critwire for those energy drain rounds to still output damage? Realistically I get that what I'm asking for is how your technique works under the energy drain condition curse and would've liked to see it action. This is me asking how best to approach it as I want to learn how it should be executed in action.  

The sleep resistance I can confirm (I went to double check on regular disruption on Jupiter just to confirm again). I should know, my own runs did not provide enough damage output to down a demolyst very quickly (My best was only a little past 10,000), so I did have to use subsequent casts of CC to stop the demo in place multiple times (I used void blast too, that was a really good CC too. Same with lockdown). Enemy demos will eventually wake up much more quickly after casting subsequent sleep arrows on them. Though this effect occurs on any form of CC that is casted on the demo. But with your viral dps, plus critwire and navigator I would have to guess that you outputted quite a lot of damage to never had to cast any form of CC more than once and you would've dropped them very quickly?

Edited December 8, 2019 by BlindStalker

[Xzorn]

13 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

May I please ask about further questions in relation to builds?

• Was your Ivara build for the run this build at the top that you've shown me before (in spoiler)? And Artemis Bow?

 

You pretty much got the idea. I don't recall the exactly build. It was slightly custom but mostly the top build since Range wasn't as critical since I only needed to Sleep Demo. Lanka scaled the best of the two and yea I setup Dashwires before pulling the Pylon. Lanka was standard Viral + Electric. No Hunters. If I recall they dispelled Bleeds or resisted them. Don't recall exactly. Didn't get the luxury of Navigator on the energy / health drain ones. I also used an Arcane Momentum in place of one Energize set because trying to reload and keep sleep perfectly timed was a pain.

Yea I don't recall a resistance. The dispell aura just went off on a set time interval but with the waking animation it was easy enough to keep them still.

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

Plus, being in prowl mode (or any invisibility mode that isn't Octavia's) dampens the sound

I never had this happen to me while in Prowl.  I only noticed it with Loki.  Can't say that I noticed the effect either with Ash outside of BladeStorm mode

Edited December 8, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[BlindStalker]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I never had this happen to me while in Prowl.  I only noticed it with Loki.  Can't say that I noticed the effect either with Ash outside of BladeStorm mode

Prowl will muffle enemy gunfire sounds, in the same vein as Loki's invisibility and Ash's invisibility (this sound muffling/dampening also unfortunately affects the beeping of grenades too). I don't hear this effect however when I use Octavia's invisibility. My hearing is quite sensitive to these types of noise changes as I'm used to using audio cues whenever I'm playing games. I also play with over-ear headphones that kind of give off a "surround" sound type of feeling, so it's even more noticeable.

For example, listen to the sound of the Gorgon machine-gun being fired by the corrupted heavy gunner starting from 0:06. Then carefully listen to the sound of the Gorgon machine-gun firing starting from 0:10 seconds as I enter prowl mode. The sound of the gun fire becomes distinctively muffled. I purposely leave prowl at 0:14 seconds to make the gunfire sound loud again, then enter prowl again at around 0:21. Listen to the gunfire sound of the Gorgon and you will hear a distinctive difference in gunfire noise whenever I enter and exit prowl mode.

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by BlindStalker

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, BlindStalker said:

Prowl will muffle enemy gunfire sounds, in the same vein as Loki's invisibility and Ash's invisibility (this sound muffling/dampening also unfortunately affects the beeping of grenades too). I don't hear this effect however when I use Octavia's invisibility. My hearing is quite sensitive to these types of noise changes as I'm used to using audio cues whenever I'm playing games. I also play with over-ear headphones that kind of give off a "surround" sound type of feeling, so it's even more noticeable.

For example, listen to the sound of the Gorgon machine-gun being fired by the corrupted heavy gunner starting from 0:06. Then carefully listen to the sound of the Gorgon machine-gun firing starting from 0:10 seconds as I enter prowl mode. The sound of the gun fire becomes distinctively muffled. I purposely leave prowl at 0:14 seconds to make the gunfire sound loud again, then enter prowl again at around 0:21. Listen to the gunfire sound of the Gorgon and you will hear a distinctive difference in gunfire noise whenever I enter and exit prowl mode.

 

Interesting. It's something I never noticed before until this video.  I guess that could be because I'm mostly solo and the enemy isn't shooting or all the noise from teammates when in groups.  Cool.  😄  

[Azamagon]

On 2019-12-08 at 12:46 AM, DatDarkOne said:

He was talking about controlling Navigator while controlling Ivara at the same time. That is why I asked for clarification on exactly what he meant.  

Oh, I saw now he mentioned it for both Navigator and Artemis Bow, not just the latter. My bad!

[TheLexiConArtist]

Gear hasn't been revised. There was zero positive feedback about the Aksomati and plenty of negative - it doesn't fit the frame, doesn't fit the game when we have a glut of same-y akimbo crit pistols already. It was a terrible choice, and they've gone ahead with that.

I feel trepidation about the possibility of Ivara herself getting the necessary QOL if something as straightforward and unilaterally agreed as that can be summarily ignored.

[selig_fay]

1 час назад, TheLexiConArtist сказал:

Gear hasn't been revised. There was zero positive feedback about the Aksomati and plenty of negative - it doesn't fit the frame, doesn't fit the game when we have a glut of same-y akimbo crit pistols already. It was a terrible choice, and they've gone ahead with that.

I feel trepidation about the possibility of Ivara herself getting the necessary QOL if something as straightforward and unilaterally agreed as that can be summarily ignored.

I suggest you go back and look at the Atlas. Atlas works in the game, but it required more than a simple increase in survival stats, but DE left it as it is.

Ivara works in the game perfectly and I don't think there will be a big change. If there are any changes at all. Although I agree that Ivara, like Atlas, requires more for her set (at least removing the drain of energy from invisibility, because there are already limitations, and playstyle should not be punished by the drain of energy)

DE had a great idea of personal weapon systems that have synergy with frames. But this system only extended to some frames and was forgotten.

I understand the pain of it, but it's a lot more fun going forward because after Ivara comes a frame that never worked in the game(without crutches) and whose problems are still ignored. Wukong really gave up hope. Atlas took that hope away. Let's see what happens to Ivara. Maybe, given how popular Ivara is, everything will be fine.

[H.Katsura_999]

On 2019-12-07 at 2:53 PM, bibmobello said:

snip~

If ya over embellish her then Nerf Bat Prime will break her knees.

Rule 1 of warframe if something is good. We dont talk about it.

[Pizza-Cat-Of-Legend]

Totally agree with all of this. I've had the same thoughts for a while as well but didn't have the skill to word it in a post like you did. As a fellow Ivara main, much appreciated!

[TheLexiConArtist]

Sad to see that no feedback was used to improve Ivara's kit. Hopefully it's just a case of poor release timing alongside the more demanding Empyrean update - couldn't spare anyone to dive in to make and test out these fixes properly while all those Railjack bugfixes are more universally important.

[Azamagon]

17 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Sad to see that no feedback was used to improve Ivara's kit. Hopefully it's just a case of poor release timing alongside the more demanding Empyrean update - couldn't spare anyone to dive in to make and test out these fixes properly while all those Railjack bugfixes are more universally important.

It's been the same with almost every single Prime relase though. Only one I can think of where they actually resolved a few things was with Wukong.

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

It's been the same with almost every single Prime relase though. Only one I can think of where they actually resolved a few things was with Wukong.

Updates are more likely to happen with buyable releases for the sake of promotion. If you count unvaultings and new Deluxe skins as well as straight Prime releases, you'll see a few.
_{(The outlier to that was when they took the axe to Ember right on the eve of one of her unvaults.)}

Besides, after the myriad of direct and indirect nerfs and 'bug fixes' Ivara's suffered, it's about time for a proper review to level the playing field. Like I said, it's just unfortunately timed. Hopefully a dev can poke in to confirm/deny if it's just waiting in the wings.

[Ikusias]

Just look at Titania:

Deluxe skin out, prime after Ivara and she got messed up by archwing charges / ignored in actual reworks twice

[Azamagon]

Bumping this thread, cuz it needs to be bumped!

[BlindStalker]

With the proposed changes coming towards shotgun status, I'd like to ask @[DE]Rebecca if you could communicate with us if the dev team is also looking at Ivara's Artemis Bow as well. From what we understand, Ivara's Artemis Bow isn't "really a real bow". It's actually set up to be like a "shotgun" disguised as a "bow". More importantly, it's the status state of Artemis bow that we want to know about, if it's getting updated as well with the new shotgun status changes. As we understand, Artemis Bow's arrows' status chance, is split between each of its seven arrows, requiring simultaneous hits to maximize status procs, exacerbated by the large spread. More precisely, "the listed status chance is the base chance per shot that at least one arrow will proc a status; the actual base status chance per arrow is ~3.14%." If I understand correctly, Artemis Bow's status chance has basically been following the same setup as shotguns (because I'm guessing it's coded up like a shotgun), and because it's the only exalted weapon with innate multi-shot built into it.

You said in the workshop that you would buff the status chance of shotguns to 3x to help compensate for the new changes:

On 2020-02-28 at 10:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Shotguns as a special case means we have buffed the Status Chance of all Shotguns by x3 or greater. The UI now behaves to show the reality that you are determining Status Chance per pellet. 

Will Artemis Bow also get a status change increase as well (since it behaves more like a shotgun instead of a traditional bow)? Surely the UI will at least have to display actual proper details about Artemis Bow that hasn't been displayed before about "its true status chance" now?

Edited March 2, 2020 by BlindStalker

[DatDarkOne]

9 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

Will Artemis Bow also get a status change increase as well (since it behaves more like a shotgun instead of a traditional bow)? Surely the UI will at least have to display actual proper details about Artemis Bow that hasn't been displayed before about "its true status chance" now?

Interesting.  Interesting iNDEED.  Good question.