With Ivara Prime on the horizon, here is the comprehensive overview of shortfalls that should be investigated and addressed.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

If I were to improve her abilities, here is what I would do;

Ivara:

 

·       Include the ability to see treasure on the mini-map onto the passive.

 

1st ability:

·       You can access consumable gear wheel on ziplines.

 

2nd ability:

·       Mods on weapons do not affect the speed of the projectile.

·       Decrease the energy cost from 5 energy per second (including when controlling projectile) to 2 energy per second.

·       Pressing the fire button will now have 3 different acceleration speed options.

·       Using this automatically has a punch-through of 1.0.

·       Make the doors open when projectile goes near them.

·       This ability can be cast on the move.

 

3rd ability:

·       Make it have a 70% chance to unlock lockers, disable alarms without hacking and make her able to dismantle traps. In this state, she is not affected by traps while disable them.

 

4th ability:

·       This ability can be cast while on the move.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Me personally, I don`t like the way Ivara prime looks but I was expecting it to be ugly. I was saying to my self that Ivara looks really good and I don`t see how they could make her look any better that she already does so I`m going to just get her for the stats and put the ivara skin on.

[DatDarkOne]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Using this automatically has a punch-through of 1.0.

There are some projectiles you don't want this to be on.  Pox, talons, and castanzas come to mind.  

7 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

This ability can be cast on the move.

This one I just have to ask how in the heck will we control both at the same time?  Unless you meant something like cast the ability while Ivara is in the air.

[Test-995]

8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

This one I just have to ask how in the heck will we control both at the same time?  Unless you meant something like cast the ability while Ivara is in the air.

Well... WASD SHIFT CTRL is all free during navigator... we just need second screen to check where ivara is at.

[Ekemeister]

On 2019-11-24 at 9:00 AM, DatDarkOne said:

ON an extra note.  

Has anyone else noticed that DE has slowly nerfed stealth mechanics almost into the ground?  Mechanics that currently only one frame can still do on a reliable and consistent manner.  The most recent nerf being not able to get stealth kills with any primary or secondary regardless of silence without using Sleep on the enemies.  

Think about this for a few minutes.  Let it simmer.  Then think how this effects Ivara, her upcoming prime, and her place in the game.  

Um... You just hit the interact button instead of the melee button now. The mercy system is the hint. All the finishers are otherwise still there.

Personally, I just wish Ivara's Prime design had more gossamer and kept her hunter notes. I just don't dig this jellyfish, forever21, lady of the lake theme. 

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, Ekemeister said:

Um... You just hit the interact button instead of the melee button now. The mercy system is the hint. All the finishers are otherwise still there.

Personally, I just wish Ivara's Prime design had more gossamer and kept her hunter notes. I just don't dig this jellyfish, forever21, lady of the lake theme. 

You didn't READ what I posted.  Primaries and Secondaries no longer can get Stealth Multipliers of any kind.  I wasn't referring to the melee stealth kill finishers.  😁 

[Ekemeister]

17 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You didn't READ what I posted.  Primaries and Secondaries no longer can get Stealth Multipliers of any kind.  I wasn't referring to the melee stealth kill finishers.  😁 

Lol. You're right. I can't believe that I missed that.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

NAVIGATOR

Most of the stuff in this thread is awesome.

Did somebody reawaken that old idea for navigator augment to teleport Ivara where the projectile lands?

(Imagine navigating a sleep/cloak arrow and appear at the impact location! Or lenz explosion 🤣)

That would be just dope!

 

And of course lower the general drain cost by 2-4 times (or better just keep the initial cost, no drain), as even maxed efficiency with primed flow doesn't give much space to play around with the ability.

And a slider with projectile speed would be good. I even fail Zenistar disc from time to time, not speaking about Daikyu with Terminal Velocity. I personally would like to slow down the projectile by 4 or even slower.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Scar.brother.help.me

[IKtenologyI]

On 2019-11-23 at 10:59 PM, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

You make some decent points But I pretty heavily disagree with your issues with prowl and how you feel about her prime/deluxe.  I can agree to a point that prowl itself might have too many checks in place for balancing.  but I disagree with your approach to it and your solutions.  You're basically asking for her to have the best cloak in the game when there isn't even thematically a reason for that.  Not to mention asking for it's drain to be increased as compensation is just lazy.

If she retained full mobility dashwire becomes less valuable.  Positioning would be less important. If she didn't break cloak for using non silenced weaponry then sleep arrows become less valuable.  etc.  She's meant to play slowly and methodically and you seemingly have an issue with that despite her theme being a favorite of yours.

As far as her prime goes it actually fits Ivara quite well.  Frogs and jelly are both water based creatures.  Both can be poisonous.  Ivara is referred to as a frog princess which implies gracefulness and beauty.  Jelly are considered to have both traits.  The only "clash" here is the hunter thing.  Her deluxe leans more into that combat centric aspect of her design.  As that one is more of a forest guardian.  And forest guardian's in many mythos do feature hunter like beings as protectors.

It's perfectly fine for you to not be into either things visually but both the deluxe and her prime do hit key notes in her overall thematics.

Octavia and lokis invis are both better than what he mentioned as a fix. Both have the capability of allowing energy regen while in the invis, while ivara doesn't. The only drawback to lokis invis is that it is not recastable. Octavias on the other hand is, along with having a myriad of other benefits tossed in as well. I rly don't see the issue with the prowl change he mentioned. As for the looks of the prime and deluxe, those are subjective.

[Skaleek]

Very well written. I find myself agreeing with 99% of what you've written and your asks are not unreasonable in the least. I do have two minor issues, actually more like 1 clarification and 1 issue:

1.

On 2019-11-23 at 4:47 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

It is also impossible to attach the arrow to the user, even when redirected as such with Navigator

You can stealth arrow your own sentinel/companion which (more with the sentinel) allows you to stealth yourself with a stealth arrow given that you have enough range modded. I think 100% or 145% range gets the job done.

2.

On 2019-11-23 at 4:47 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

It's probably safe to replace Infiltrate entirely once Prowl is made not-a-crippled-mess.

I use infiltrate to learn new spy vaults (sort of like training wheels). The new vaults in Jupiter and Kuva Spy are easy now that I know them, but before when I didn't, I used ivara as a dependable way to bypass laser walls/barriers. I like this functionality and I do not want to see it removed. In Warframe i enjoy unique tools and i feel like this is one of them.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Skaleek

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

You can stealth arrow your own sentinel/companion which (more with the sentinel) allows you to stealth yourself with a stealth arrow given that you have enough range modded. I think 100% or 145% range gets the job done.

I remember DE removed the ability to do that within the first month or two of her release.  It would be news to me if it got added back in after almost 4 years.  

[Skaleek]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I remember DE removed the ability to do that within the first month or two of her release.  It would be news to me if it got added back in after almost 4 years.  

You can stealth arrow your sentinel. It's just hard because you need to turn quite quickly and have very good aim to do it (your sentinel auto-readjusts to be out of your field of vision). I've definitely done it more recently than 4 years ago. At least I think i have. Time does move quicker than it used to!

Kavat/Kubrow, not 100% on because i havent tried it.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Skaleek

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Very well written. I find myself agreeing with 99% of what you've written and your asks are not unreasonable in the least. I do have two minor issues, actually more like 1 clarification and 1 issue:

1. You can stealth arrow your own sentinel/companion which (more with the sentinel) allows you to stealth yourself with a stealth arrow given that you have enough range modded. I think 100% or 145% range gets the job done.

2. I use infiltrate to learn new spy vaults (sort of like training wheels). The new vaults in Jupiter and Kuva Spy are easy now that I know them, but before when I didn't, I used ivara as a dependable way to bypass laser walls/barriers. I like this functionality and I do not want to see it removed. In Warframe i enjoy unique tools and i feel like this is one of them.

1) Sentinels may be usable in this way. I vaguely recall trying to hit my sentinel with Navigated cloak after failing to attach it to myself back when I was testing that, but since everything's in wispy invis-mode it's possible I just missed with that. Companions, on the other hand, are of dubious use whether possible to attach or not. The last thing you want is your survival-necessity zone gallivanting off to attack some random mook 20m away. It's bad enough when you accidentally attach cloak to an enemy and it gets knocked back or projectile-weapon killed, with much the same outcome.

2) If you're learning how to complete the vault without bypassing lasers, then you're somewhat doing yourself a disservice by using exactly that in your trial runs. You wouldn't know if you messed up (moving skill-check barriers); you aren't finding the natural path to circumvent or disable the obstacle (stationary navigation-checks). I'm hesitant to strongly suggest baking Infiltrate's barrier immunity into the base ability because I feel that's likely to become a "one or the other" decision between that and freedom of parkour - and the latter is far more liberating than the former.

I will admit two of the Jupiter vaults are definitely more aided by laser immunity than any previous ones which can all be simply learned to insignificance. The 'security shield' vault goes faster when you can cut directly through the fencing and the vertical sweep between the two unlocking consoles, and (albeit only at over-natural levels e.g. Sortie) there's the vault ending in that 'rave tunnel' which gets difficult to time when the sets of sweeping side-lasers are added into the mix.
Given that Limbo is the only other frame who can ignore these things outright (not counting teleporting beyond) it might be desirable to keep that available in Prowl's augment, but it was always a situational benefit. The augment needs to do something more concrete, that's usable in most or all mission types, once its backhanded 'Let me take some weight off that ball-and-chain which I attached to you ' property is no longer relevant.

[Skaleek]

4 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

2) If you're learning how to complete the vault without bypassing lasers, then you're somewhat doing yourself a disservice by using exactly that in your trial runs. You wouldn't know if you messed up (moving skill-check barriers); you aren't finding the natural path to circumvent or disable the obstacle (stationary navigation-checks). I'm hesitant to strongly suggest baking Infiltrate's barrier immunity into the base ability because I feel that's likely to become a "one or the other" decision between that and freedom of parkour - and the latter is far more liberating than the former.

I will admit two of the Jupiter vaults are definitely more aided by laser immunity than any previous ones which can all be simply learned to insignificance. The 'security shield' vault goes faster when you can cut directly through the fencing and the vertical sweep between the two unlocking consoles, and (albeit only at over-natural levels e.g. Sortie) there's the vault ending in that 'rave tunnel' which gets difficult to time when the sets of sweeping side-lasers are added into the mix.
Given that Limbo is the only other frame who can ignore these things outright (not counting teleporting beyond) it might be desirable to keep that available in Prowl's augment, but it was always a situational benefit. The augment needs to do something more concrete, that's usable in most or all mission types, once its backhanded 'Let me take some weight off that ball-and-chain which I attached to you ' property is no longer relevant.

This is a fair sentiment, although i do typically "reverse engineer" spy vaults. I know this isn't foolproof because sometimes vaults open or change after completing them but i do a pretty thorough exploration of them and ivara in prowl with the augment is how i get that done. I could live without it, but like i said, I don't like stripping abilities of the things that make them unique, even if it is with an augment.

I do understand your hesitation to keep it on the augment or even incorporate it in the native ability because yes, DE would take something in return for the functionality.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Skaleek

[Ikusias]

In all this we are forgetting that Wukong post rework got razorwing+provl+relative augments all backed in its cloudwalker ability... a tad bit unbalanced considering that it eclipses all other invisibility powers in terms of utility

[BlindStalker]

On 2019-12-01 at 7:15 AM, Azamagon said:

Sorry, but my Cricket Arrow idea has nothing to do with additional drops. The idea was a longrange vacuum - i.e picking up items on the ground from afar - not a pickpocket mechanic.

Fixed, sorry about that misquote.

On 2019-12-01 at 8:18 AM, Airwolfen said:

@BlindStalker I GOT SUMMOOOOONED

10/10 would have made a chart again if I had the numbers. Sadly the one that got posted on stream tells us exactly... Nothing 😐

Thanks for making the chart on the 2018 August stats though. Yours was way more readable than what DE gave us initially in 2018. Yeah I wish DE had released the numbers for the 2019 graph on devstream 133.

On 2019-12-01 at 6:35 PM, DatDarkOne said:

😄  My comment wasn't really directed at you. 

Were you referring to me in your original comment? Or did you just mean as a general statement? In any case, Ivara's usage stat number is still of interest/major concern to me.

On 2019-12-01 at 6:09 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

But those numbers in a vacuum include edge-cases like the emergent Castanas Eidolon hunter Ivaras - and while they're naturally padded out with that common player sentiment 'I need something because I'm bad/lazy at spy', she's still crowded out by Loki and his Prime lumped together. Octavia usage seems pretty standardised across the board, which is surprising. For the general player base she must be 'sleeper OP' for stealth and scaling prowess. Ash isn't looking so hot, but that's likely because Loki's more accessible for stealth purposes and people still hate the bladestorm rework, otherwise finding more engagement with different kits when stealth isn't the operant condition for selection.

Despite the barrier to entry of spying for Ivara, you can also see a notable drop-off in usage towards the last couple mastery ranks. This could be seen as people who, as they master everything available, begin realising the comparative flaws of Ivara and favouring alternative approaches, either in the stronger stealth game or tanking-meta. But that's just my armchair diagnosis.

You're speculating that the graph is still in reverse alphabetical (like it was in 2018) and that Ivara's position in the 2018 graph should roughly give us a 'ballpark' reference on where she still sits on the 2019 devsteam graph? I mean, that probably is a reasonable guess (looking at where Excalibur, Mag and Volt sit on the original 2018 graph and extrapolating those same positions on to the 2019 graph). If that blue one (in the lower middle section) is supposed to be her then I'm actually more surprised if that's Inaros' usage bar right below her (his usage looks to have skyrocketed in comparison to his overall numbers in 2018, I mean in relative comparison to where he was at before. But then again, people just wanting to play something that can stay alive without putting in much effort isn't too surprising).

Ivara does look like she tapers a bit lower towards the final mastery ranks (26(?) to 28). A little disappointing since her actual usage numbers grew a little bit consistently higher, as the mastery rank increased. Still, would like to see Ivara get some QoL changes for her to just help her out a bit more.

This is why I want raw numbers, I can't determine which funky shade of 'golden brown' Octavia is. Either I'm seeing a spike towards mr28, or (wait, no that could be Revenant?) If so, okay Octavia sort of looks like she's kind of steady, but tapers off as well towards the end?

Loki looks like he still sits as top most frequently used stealth frame (compared to his other peers) across the board overall again. Not too surprising to me (but maybe his usage numbers overall did fall a bit. Though that might be the case for all the stealth frames overall too). I'd love for Ivara to catch up a bit with Loki, in terms of usage numbers. But that's realistically never going to happen. 

 

17 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Did somebody reawaken that old idea for navigator augment to teleport Ivara where the projectile lands?

(Imagine navigating a sleep/cloak arrow and appear at the impact location! Or lenz explosion 🤣)

That's actually probably a good counter to that original proposal for the navigator augment. Would be problematic trying to navigate projectile explosives.

 

11 hours ago, Skaleek said:

I use infiltrate to learn new spy vaults (sort of like training wheels). The new vaults in Jupiter and Kuva Spy are easy now that I know them, but before when I didn't, I used ivara as a dependable way to bypass laser walls/barriers. I like this functionality and I do not want to see it removed. In Warframe i enjoy unique tools and i feel like this is one of them.

You could use a max duration Wukong to bypass lasers if that's realistically the issue. Wukong is quick and is probably going to cover the spy job better than Ivara, since you realistically only need to repeat a spy puzzle a few times before muscle memory eventually kicks in. (Since only the really old spy puzzles dynamically change in their environmental layout, all of the new spy vaults are still the same 'fixed 3 spy' vaults, so they are faster to learn).

Although I'm still working on my thoughts for Ivara, I would just opt for baking the 'laser bypass' part of infiltrate into Ivara's kit, so that that functionality isn't lost on her. But I'm still trying to figure out what to do with other parts of the augment.

Edited December 4, 2019 by BlindStalker

[TheLexiConArtist]

17 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

You're speculating that the graph is still in reverse alphabetical (like it was in 2018) and that Ivara's position in the 2018 graph should roughly give us a 'ballpark' reference on where she still sits on the 2019 devsteam graph? I mean, that probably is a reasonable guess (looking at where Excalibur, Mag and Volt sit on the original 2018 graph and extrapolating those same positions on to the 2019 graph). If that blue one (in the lower middle section) is supposed to be her then I'm actually more surprised if that's Inaros' usage bar right below her (his usage looks to have skyrocketed in comparison to his overall numbers in 2018, I mean in relative comparison to where he was at before. But then again, people just wanting to play something that can stay alive without putting in much effort isn't too surprising).

Ivara does look like she tapers a bit lower towards the final mastery ranks (26(?) to 28). A little disappointing since her actual usage numbers grew a little bit consistently higher, as the mastery rank increased. Still, would like to see Ivara get some QoL changes for her to just help her out a bit more.

This is why I want raw numbers, I can't determine which funky shade of 'golden brown' she is. Either I'm seeing a spike towards mr28, or (wait, no that could be Revenant?) If so, okay Octavia sort of looks like she's kind of steady, but tapers off as well towards the end?

Loki looks like he still sits as top most frequently used stealth frame (compared to his other peers) across the board overall again. Not too surprising to me (but maybe his usage numbers overall did fall a bit. Though that might be the case for all the stealth frames overall too). I'd love for Ivara to catch up a bit with Loki, in terms of usage numbers. But that's realistically never going to happen. 

Just using the orientation of the key from 2018's to recognise it's bottom-up, then purely looked at the Devstream 133 graph. That massive block of magenta-ish is Inaros, and Ivara's sitting above in that tapering-off blue band.
I knew there'd be a visible block for Inaros, and in retrospect, since he's been a common fixture in the tank-oriented content in most recent updates it doesn't surprise me that it's so prominent:

Spoiler

Both Orbs primarily need to be tanked - Profit Taker doesn't need a damage buff of any sort with a properly dedicated loadout and Exploiter doesn't offer much of anything to warframe kits. Upscaled Corpus in general (Terra + Vapos), plus the Disruption demolyst opposition being hardly affected by abilities and pulsing nullification constantly, again it's easiest to simply choose the non-ability face-tank option. Now there's Kuva Liches, which are dangerous even to Inaros (although I suspect there may currently be a problem with Adaptation causing this vulnerability?) - having something capable of taking the brunt of the opposition while awaiting free Thrall conversions is understandable.

In terms of Ivara's popularity 'growth' over the ranks before that tapering-off in the final bracket, it should also be considered that she's commonly thought to be one of the 'worst to farm' frames, which will naturally push acquisition numbers down in the earlier ranks. _{Totally inaccurate; she's easy to get if you just take a minute to learn vaults, but regardless.} In the very early term as well, Ivara cannot be acquired except through the market until the player has access to a planet with third-tier Spy. By the time most non-marketplace Ivaras are in play, their users are probably MR10+. From there we have a probable mix of "I finally got the drop, let's try her out for a while" with the previously mentioned bad/lazy spies - who have roughly equal opportunity between acquiring Ivara and standard Loki for that purpose. Having Loki Prime separate is useful here because the vaulting process would skew 'natural acquisition' numbers further.

Octavia's golden colour is the lower one which doesn't spike at MR28 - that's Revenant's right above her, before the deep reddish-purple of Rhino Prime and Saryn Prime. Octavia usage starts strong (oh look a shiny music maker) but settles into a steady groove through MR28, not really tapering or re-growing any further beyond that. Whether that's because her overpowering capabilities are slept on by the general playerbase, or it's just being 'annoying' to use it with the beats/repetitive audio, I can't say.

[DatDarkOne]

4 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

. _{Totally inaccurate; she's easy to get if you just take a minute to learn vaults, but regardless.} 

Nah, it's that hellafied RNG with her drops that can work against you.  

The rest of your post on this are similar to my thoughts on the usage charts and why.  

[EchoesOfRain]

Glad to see some discussion on Ivara! Haven't read the entire thread, but I did want to put in my two cents

 

Noise Arrow: This is the biggest issue I have with Quiver, since it literally has no effect when enemies are alerted, which will happen in any public group. I'd love if it acted like a taunt when enemies are alerted, redirecting them for a short time to the Noise arrow's location.

Navigator: The energy drain and control are both really bad on this. Regarding the projectile control, would it be possible to give me archwing movement controls? If I'm spending energy on this ability, I need to have precise movement so that I can always hit my marks instead of wasting energy. Oh, and maybe do something about the lifespan of certain projectiles. It really sucks that I can't use some of my favorite weapons with Navigator, or even theorycraft some cool uses with others.

Prowl: For being her only real method of surviving higher levels, the movement limitations have really started to suck. I personally don't even care about the looting or headshot bonus, but the invisibility is just too crucial. Being forced to use Dashwire for decent movement sucks, because that's just more energy being spent. For simply balancing, what if Prowl allowed free movement, allowed energy regeneration while active, but still drained based on distance travelled? With freedom of movement unrestrained, Ivara players will likely be travelling a lot faster and a lot more distance travelled, keeping the energy cost over time in line.

Artemis Bow: As others have said with the augment...Actually make the single arrow as strong as all of her arrows combined and not just for headshots.

[BlindStalker]

11 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

in terms of Ivara's popularity 'growth' over the ranks before that tapering-off in the final bracket, it should also be considered that she's commonly thought to be one of the 'worst to farm' frames, which will naturally push acquisition numbers down in the earlier ranks. _{Totally inaccurate; she's easy to get if you just take a minute to learn vaults, but regardless.} In the very early term as well, Ivara cannot be acquired except through the market until the player has access to a planet with third-tier Spy. By the time most non-marketplace Ivaras are in play, their users are probably MR10+. From there we have a probable mix of "I finally got the drop, let's try her out for a while" with the previously mentioned bad/lazy spies - who have roughly equal opportunity between acquiring Ivara and standard Loki for that purpose. Having Loki Prime separate is useful here because the vaulting process would skew 'natural acquisition' numbers further.

I'll just add my 2 cents thoughts to Ivara's grind. I think that the vast majority of players actually simply hate farming spy.  It's not a hard farm, it's just one that they find either daunting to do, or boring, or something that they seem "allergic" to do. Sad part is, for all the times I might be critical of spy, it's actually my favourite mission type out of them all. it's the only mission type where mass killing isn't the main priority to passing/completing the mission.

But I can your point of later MR players getting Ivara later in their acquisition path and that might be why her growth was steady. More of a delayed farming acquisition of Ivara which might be fair possibility.

Also today is December 03th, 2019. Ivara turns four years old today! Happy birthday to our adorable tree frog huntress ❤️

Spoiler

- Profit taker orb - that one generally is more geared towards being tanky for that fight. Choosing off-meta tank is feasible, but only a fraction of players will even bother trying it.

- Exploitor orb - I kind of felt that was a significantly different type of boss that really allowed for a lot more diverse choices. Only the first part I can see it being a bit of a hassle. But if you rush that first part and and use cover, you can get through the first part fine. Second part feels even more significantly easier. I feel like exploiter orb was made in the direct opposite direction of how the PT fight ended up being designed. If people are really using tanks for exploiter then that just perplexes me on, imo.

- Disruption - yeah I can understand why people would prefer the non-interactive tank here. Just easier to go with a tank that isn't really affected by any of the curses in any real way.

- Liches - haven't tried them out yet, can't comment.

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by BlindStalker

[TheLexiConArtist]

We have a date, now we can only hope DE has seen this and we can get some quality of life. If only we'd had more forewarning on the Prime we might have also stood a better chance of a rethink in the design and gear too.

Also, watching Devstream just now showed several of the little problems in Quiver and Prowl showing up in @[DE]Rebecca's gameplay... although the energy issues of Prowl seemed to be circumvented by Dev God Mode making all energy costs free. With any luck our discussions will resonate with such recent dev experiences.

[Azamagon]

On 2019-12-02 at 9:52 PM, DatDarkOne said:

This one I just have to ask how in the heck will we control both at the same time?  Unless you meant something like cast the ability while Ivara is in the air.

I don't think his request was hard to understand: Summoning Artemis Bow currently requires you to stop at the moment - he just want it castable while moving. What did you not understand here?

[BlindStalker]

I really wish when they were demoing on devstream 134 that @[DE]Rebecca didn't have dev god-mode on while she was playing with Ivara Prime because I feel like she would've noticed some of these things more closely on Ivara. The melee attacks Rebecca was doing would've easily drained Ivara's energy pool because of the double stacking of energy drain on movement and energy drain on melee attacks at the same time. She would've had to better manage Ivara's energy pool during that period too. It also looked like Rebecca didn't like prowl's movement restrictions while she was fighting and ultimately turned it off during most of the fighting and instead opted to use cloak arrows more (which really telling if even Reb doesn't like the slow down on prowl either). If Rebecca had been caught without prowl on and she faced serious danger, then I feel that she would've gotten a better sense of some QoL changes (of what we've gone over constantly in this thread) would greatly be appreciated on Ivara now, before her prime comes. 

On some other side notes, I tried to keep track of numbers on Ivara when Reb was playing.

Ivara Prime - 1440 shields / 720 health (energy pool when fully filled was at 850)

Baza Prime - 81 / 840

So, can roughly speculate that Ivara got more shields than health increase. I'm not a fan of this, I honestly feel shields are not going to help Ivara and that honestly she needed more health than shields in all given situations. Oddly though (assuming Reb had max redirection and max vitality on Ivara prime during the demo) then Ivara Prime oddly has quite a large shield pool coming in at 1,440 (more than Frost Prime (who sits at 525 base shields when at rank 30) but less than Revenant (who sits at 675 base shields when at rank 30)). It's higher than average for a shield pool, but shields really don't help out at later levels. 720 health pool is just short of the standard 740 health pool seen on most frames. I don't really know why Ivara prime is just short of it, but at least she finally got out of the 225 base health level (but just under 300 base health). I like that Ivara prime got an energy pool boost increase, this was the thing I cared about the most. Energy is Ivara's lifeblood for survival so a bigger pool is very much desired (although I would've liked a little bit more than 850. Currently matching Baruuk, was hoping just for a bit more). No idea about sprint speed or armour or other stats so hopefully we'll see those soon.

Baza Prime seems to have gotten it's magazine capacity doubled? (Uncertain what mods Reb put on). Seemed like it was also shooting faster, so maybe higher RoF? Pure speculation at this point.

Edit, oh I forgot to mention that EternalDrkMako noticed this better than all of us, but Ivara Deluxe skin was featured on the devstream 134 twitch banner (but she wasn't shown at all IIRC? Someone double check though). Nova's 2nd deluxe skin also might be there too. 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by BlindStalker

[bibmobello]

There is nothing wrong about ivara. Most people don't play her because their  IQ is too low to understand her potentials, she requires a bit of brain and or there is no need for such potential on low level missions.

She just has the highest insane single target (multiplier)DPS in game but you can see that only on unarmored enemies (aka corpus if you just watch the stats at the end of a mission).

She not good for Spy missions, she is good to kill everything big and bad.

She is invisible.

 

Just to give you some statistics... with 320% strength(total unusable in a survival mission)

she has 128% headshot bonus

+320% critical damage

18X multiplicator with navigator.

Then don't ask to me why i have(almost every time) 90-100% damage dealt at the end of any mission(and saryn, equinox, volt and people with a 1.000.000 plat riven are thinking to be scammed) or a newbie blocked me because he was searching for a dps...

the only complaint is piercing navigator it's almost useless now , it needs at least a 100% bonus to be effective.

Now probably she will even have  the split flight mod to deal absurd damage and CC with the artemis.

Have fun and continuing to make spy missions with ivara or using your daikyu hoping they will not nerf her soon...

Ivara just needs more energy because she is hungry of energy and no energy means she dies.

The only enemy ivara fears are stupid players jumping on your wire...

 

Now think a team with banshee, equinox,harrow and ivara. Ivara could have  an hypothetical  multiplier of +30.000 X enough to destroy a whole planet...

Edited December 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[Grave.Knight]

Not in 100% agreement but I do agree with a lot of what you said.

I think Cloak Arrow is fine how it is. I wouldn't mind if we could lock on to friendlies though, just make the trick we try to do sometimes easier to do. Dash Wire is great for traversal, while Bullet Jump is faster you can clear certain rooms that Bullet Jump can't, that being said, would like to see it improved. Maybe add some new animations and make it usable at any angle. As for Noise Arrow, just get rid of it, this is something that would work better in a game like Thief were you deal with a single target and need to get by with true stealth (as in sneaking, not as in press button to turn invisible) but in this game you have much better ways to stealth (like hitting a button to turn invisible). Sleep Arrow is okay, though it would be better if they add in frontal stealth finishers.

Honestly with Navigate, I honestly wish they would go with a flat cast cost. It's such a situational ability that it's pretty unfair that once you meet the situation to use it you suffer. Definitely agree it with endless punch through (though if combine with my idea of flat cost would need a duration than), definitely agree with endless flight time (again would need a duration).

Prowl I think is mostly fine. Or more to the point they do need to tone down the speed limitations (as in remove it). I don't mind not being able to bullet jump and all that, that's what Dash Wire is for. I like Infiltrate as is (would be better if we didn't have the speed limitation but it still increased your speed, though as a bonus buff so it works something like a Rush and also ignore lasers).

I don't really have much opinion on Artemis Bow (mostly cause I don't use it much). Do wish they would make it act more like Cernos Prime but you'd end up removing some functionality with it. As for Concentrate Arrow, maybe turn it into two different mods. One for the Bow and One for Ivara. The Ivara one just makes one super arrow like you suggest and the Bow one is a 100% proc explosion that removes punch through.