DE: It is time to stop. RNG does not fly.

[AmaruKaze]

Alright, I had it. I like your game but right now you are just going down a path that is not healthy, not fun and just a downgrade for the game over all.

Why the hell are you so obsessed with RNG? Stop, no one wants it. It does not make the game more engaging or fun. It just frustration galore! Why on earth do weapons, reactors and shields need random generated boni? What is the point of it? Especially since the houses are not even treated equally. So if you want to farm for Lavan or Vidar, good luck. Enjoy your 2% chance at the end of a mission to get a blue-print. Even if you overcame that RNG hurdle, you must pray it is a good roll before you finally farm and pump in hours after hours in resources. Only to find a friend of yours have the same part that is not different but flat out better by FAR.

What is the reasoning here? Let's extend the lifetime of content by adding a system so hostile towards the player that they will literately turn away from the game over it? Okay, I was "Harsh but well at least the guns are the same across the board"... NO that was just a display error that was fixed with the Ivara Prime release. Guns DO have RNG stats on them as well. Again Zetki is the worst of the bunch again by increasing the fire-rate when the limiting factor is Heat-Capacity anyway. The other get much better boni but guess what, yeah you may have had the hunch, they are #*!%ing super rare.

Warframe now is just flat out gambling. I pity those who even spent platinum for the Rush Drones and now have low-rolls on their guns ( which they couldn't see before ). It just a mess and it has to stop NOW. DE take a hint, the community HATES RNG values on weapons, parts and such. It is a concept that will not, even never, fly with this community. Patch it out, asap. It is not fun, it is not engaging not rewarding. You want people to play the game? Then make it fun, not designs a grind inside a grind to force player-retension. This path was taken by many game companies before and guess what players leave. So now grab the fire-extinguisher and stop this madness.

[xBloodySin]

It's almost like they don't want people to have the best of the best within half a week of release, huh?

[Kaotyke]

4 minutes ago, AmaruKaze said:

So if you want to farm for Lavan or Vidar, good luck. Enjoy your 2% chance at the end of a mission to get a blue-print.

Crewships drop those too.

Zekit is more common because they drop from Outriders and they spawn in more quantity.

5 minutes ago, AmaruKaze said:

Why the hell are you so obsessed with RNG?

Because this is a Free to Play game. If it gave everything to us just like that, no one would buy plat. And by buying plat they keep the lights on.

 

7 minutes ago, AmaruKaze said:

This path was taken by many game companies before and guess what players leave.

*Looks at EA's and Activision's bussiness models with reguards to RNG*

So. About those players leaving...

[Xhobract]

The variance between min and max rolls is too large, e.g. Zekti MK III reactor has between 11 - 90 avionic capacity. That's just too much.

Besides that, I like that we can get different bonuses like "Shields replenish 50x faster while cloaked" or "+50% shield regeneration speed while boost meter is recharging". That enables different builds and that is nice.

[BaIthazar]

Ironically counter to what you believe Warframe NEEDS RNG to keep players invested.

As Bloodysin mentioned the RNG and grindwalls exist to prevent large portions of the player base to streamroll through new content in the span of the first week.

And as Kaotyke mentioned, Without RNG people would have zero reason to fund DEs further development of the game.

Quote

This path was taken by many game companies before and guess what players leave.

In these cases players were more often than not leaving for reasons completely unrelated to RNG

[AmaruKaze]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Kaotyke:

Crewships drop those too.

Zekit is more common because they drop from Outriders and they spawn in more quantity.

Because this is a Free to Play game. If it gave everything to us just like that, no one would buy plat. And by buying plat they keep the lights on.

 

*Looks at EA's and Activision's bussiness models with reguards to RNG*

So. About those players leaving...

Slots are fine, rush things also fine. Rush Drones etc. There is no need for the RNG. They did fine financially before they added the even extra layer of it to the Railjack. So it is either greed or incompetence.

[AmaruKaze]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb xBloodySin:

It's almost like they don't want people to have the best of the best within half a week of release, huh?

There are other ways to ensure that. E.g. make mission difficult and enforce that they must communicate and know what they are doing. Not just adding the layer of luck² on it.

[schilds]

Rng might prevent steamrolling content (and then presumably what, people stop playing?) but I suspect it has a flip side to it. Other people will look at it, try an update out, and then say "nope, this isn't for me".

[xBloodySin]

Just now, AmaruKaze said:

There are other ways to ensure that. E.g. make mission difficult and enforce that they must communicate and know what they are doing. Not just adding the layer of luck² on it.

 If they do that, they are gating new content behind even more time investment than it already requires, not to mention there aren't many ways to "make it more difficult" without creating new problems.

Just now, schilds said:

Rng might prevent steamrolling content (and then presumably what, people stop playing?) but I suspect it has a flip side to it. Other people will look at it, try an update out, and then say "nope, this isn't for me".

People who would do that have already done it anyway because of how much grind the game has, as this is in the end just grinding and hoping for a low-chance drop, with the difference that you get some lesser versions than what you want along the way.

[Emolition]

22 minutes ago, AmaruKaze said:

This path was taken by many game companies before and guess what players leave.

The RNG of diablo 3 and path of exile don't seem to make ppl stop playing on the flip they just start a new season and redo the whole grind over every season for million of seasons. Farming for most part same gear over again they allready owned.

[AmaruKaze]

vor 1 Minute schrieb xBloodySin:

 If they do that, they are gating new content behind even more time investment than it already requires, not to mention there aren't many ways to "make it more difficult" without creating new problems.

People who would do that have already done it anyway because of how much grind the game has, as this is in the end just grinding and hoping for a low-chance drop, with the difference that you get some lesser versions than what you want along the way.

Those lesser versions are so much so inferior that they can be easily outmatched by MK2 Vidar or Lavan. That is a big warning signs that the system in place is S#&$ if any MK2 beats out a MK3. Since Flux is basically not nearly important enough to care, it is avionics all the way.

Also they could easily make harder content, with enemies that need a full group. 4 x Corrossive Projection etc. Level 200+ Enemies. However they do not do it because it requires skill and knowledge which is as we all know, rare in any online game. So instead of making a clear cut and saying "Highend gear for the highend player" they make it so rare that everyone can achieve it, however to prevent plowing through they just make the drop-rates infinitesimally small.

[Kyronz]

22 minutes ago, xBloodySin said:

It's almost like they don't want people to have the best of the best within half a week of release, huh?

i like RJ but it will be completely dead if you not level up before the new year, it is shallow crap instead of content.

[xBloodySin]

Just now, AmaruKaze said:

Those lesser versions are so much so inferior that they can be easily outmatched by MK2 Vidar or Lavan. That is a big warning signs that the system in place is S#&$ if any MK2 beats out a MK3. Since Flux is basically not nearly important enough to care, it is avionics all the way.

Also they could easily make harder content, with enemies that need a full group. 4 x Corrossive Projection etc. Level 200+ Enemies. However they do not do it because it requires skill and knowledge which is as we all know, rare in any online game. So instead of making a clear cut and saying "Highend gear for the highend player" they make it so rare that everyone can achieve it, however to prevent plowing through they just make the drop-rates infinitesimally small.

You not liking or understanding variations overlapping doesn't make the system be whatever got censored out.

Requiring four people with an aura end level 200 enemies is your idea of "making it harder"? All it would do is make people who can do those things get even further ahead of anyone newer, not make it harder. Some people would have the best of the best within days, others might never get there and just hitchhike on others' Jacks instead.

Edited December 18, 2019 by xBloodySin

[AmaruKaze]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb xBloodySin:

You not like or understanding variations overlapping doesn't make the system be whatever got censored out.

Requiring four people with an aura end level 200 enemies is your idea of "making it harder"? All it would do is make people who can do those things get even further ahead of anyone newer, not make it harder. Some people would have the best of the best within days, others might never get there and just hitchhike on others' Jacks instead.

That's the point, the people playing online games and want the best loot should have the strive to work for it by SKILL. The cut must be introduced between casual and hardcore. Those who are just casually playing the game should be fully aware that due to their decision or inability to commit to the game, will lock them out of some form of content. That worked well in many games, much better than pissing people of by random ( getting the part ) and adding another layer ( getting a good roll ).

Edited December 18, 2019 by AmaruKaze

[schilds]

  

1 minute ago, Emolition said:

The RNG of diablo 3 and path of exile don't seem to make ppl stop playing on the flip they just start a new season and redo the whole grind over every season for million of seasons. Farming for most part same gear over again they allready owned.

That sounds to me like they're playing because the gameplay loop is fun, rather than for the gear. Coilecting the loot is just part of the fun, and a way of creating some variation in how players progress through the game each season (similar to roguelikes).

 

Some of warframe's grind misses the point, when it feels more like a chore you have to get through to get to the fun bit.

[xBloodySin]

Just now, AmaruKaze said:

That's the point, the people playing online games and want the best loot should have the strive to work for it. The cut must be introduced between casual and hardcore. Those who are just casually playing the game should be fully aware that due to their decision or inability to commit to the game, will lock them out of some form of content. That worked well in many games, much better than pissing people of by random ( getting the part ) and adding another layer ( getting a good roll ).

Guess what? Committing includes braving the wild RNG world and hunting for that special prize out of all the lessers you'll find along the way.

It seems the issue here is just that you don't want to commit to the game enough.

[schilds]

4 minutes ago, xBloodySin said:

It seems the issue here is just that you don't want to commit to the game enough.

Well sure, but that's not much of a point. Let's do a little thought experiment. Imagine we keep increasing the grind until just one person is left playing. That person can say to everyone else "you just didn't want to commit to the game enough". They're probably right. Compared to them, no-one else was committed enough. So what?

Edited December 18, 2019 by schilds

[Genitive]

1 minute ago, schilds said:

  

That sounds to me like they're playing because the gameplay loop is fun, rather than for the gear. Coilecting the loot is just part of the fun, and a way of creating some variation in how players progress through the game each season (similar to roguelikes).

 

Some of warframe's grind misses the point, when it feels more like a chore you have to get through to get to the fun bit.

For me seasonal content like Diablo of PoE doesn't work. I don't like when games want me to start from the beginning over and over. I prefer what Warframe does, even if sometimes grind and rng are too much. To each their own, I guess.

[xBloodySin]

Just now, schilds said:

Well sure, but that's not much of a point. Let's do a little thought experiment. Imagine we keep increasing the grind until just one person is left playing. That person can say to everyone else "you just didn't want to commit to the game enough". So what?

The thing about thoughts experiments is that you can make up anything and create your own fake results to try to pretend you have a point.

Imagine that Martians invade the planet and you are forced to grind RNG exactly like this to save your life, so this was in fact training to ensure the continued existence of human beings? I bet you'd be glad you grinded then!

[Emolition]

1 minute ago, Genitive said:

For me seasonal content like Diablo of PoE doesn't work. I don't like when games want me to start from the beginning over and over. I prefer what Warframe does, even if sometimes grind and rng are too much. To each their own, I guess.

Yeah I did a few season in diablo 3 but I just don't like having to find the same legendary with the correct stats on each time when I allready had a perfect one.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Quote

RNG does not fly.

neither does your Railjack for more than 3 seconds before it gets blown up!  

consider the alternative: linear progression that only gets better until reaching the best stuff might feel more satisfying, but it's extremely short-term. anyone who played railjack for any real length of time could probably have a fully upgraded railjack within a few days; then what? not much point once your ship has a full resource hold and can take on a dozen galleons without a scratch. and then all you'll see on here is "muh content drought". imagine if a Casino gave you the jackpot every time.. they'd soon go out of business.

like it or not, RNG keeps people playing, and it's what keeps the lights on at DE. I wouldn't expect them to ease off on RNG any time soon.

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

Is the gaming industry so dense and uncreative that rng is the only way to go to make replayable content? 

[schilds]

@xBloodySin 

[xBloodySin]

Just now, schilds said:

@xBloodySin 

Glad you now realize how dumb your "thought experiment" crap was.

[schilds]

Just now, xBloodySin said:

Glad you now realize how dumb your "thought experiment" crap was.