A new Yeah, a new discussion about the Trading System

[CatboyPrincess]

basically every one of these "problems" can be solved through centralized control on DE's part or simple systematic limits (ex. an item can only be traded N times ever, it can only be posted at a price 1.5x higher than its purchase price, it can only be posted 1.5x higher than the next highest item, can only post N items at a time, etc.)

the system needs to be improved.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Gwyndolin-chan

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

Tis a new yeah, but it's the same discussion about the trading system.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, LordNero86 said:

I'd rather have the system we're having right now than dealing with auction house (whatever the variant is). Having an auction house of any kind will destroy the market. I've played a couple games with auction house built in. Either the price of a single item gets destroyed to pieces, practically worthless to trade OR it soars sky high due to someone (or some bots) scooping every single thing, making it monopoly price, almost no in between.

The system works when there is not a FK-ton of crap to deal with. Years ago it was mostly just prime parts(which being locked behind ACTUAL difficulty allowed it to stay a high price or people learn to GIT GOOD) and the raid drop arcanes(which being much harder to obtain and people could not freelo a bunch of them super EZ, allowed them to retain a high value) for the most part with only a few other sparse things about, namely syndicate mods and weapon stances.

Now we have:

• Riven mods
• Kuva Liches for both weapons & Ephemera
• Relics
• R. Relics & Mods
• Variant Weapon parts in absurd numbers
• For the PC audience at the moment, Avionics & Railjack salvage
• Plus a huge bunch of other things i could likely list but its 5:48am here so my brain is not fully switched on to detail all the fkery on how flooded market chat is.

Throw in the fact that ONCE AGAIN, people have gotten lazy with properly typing out messages in favor of bad grammar posts and the `TROLL` level messages between nudes, wanting to `buy platinum`, coupon scammers and those that want to buy coupons, those that are either purposely trolling or clearly are ignorant on what a fair value for a very low drop rate item is worth due to trolls and greedy folk constantly screwing with the market value. Well its no wonder why plenty of people rather a `auction house` so they can just put a item on the board then let it sell, while they focus on other things, Such as the frustrating grind for resources and rare parts on recently badly designed systems that D.E. should of ASAP fixed already.

No one enjoys babysitting a marketplace to try and get currency, especially if a single item gives such a neglible amount that they have to spend hours till its a decent amount for maybe something as simple as a 20 plat potato.

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Why current system is better? Relatively stable price, can haggle, you can barter (WTT), value is determined by both parties.

The current system has no stable price, in just a period of soon as a new prime drops people will troll out values of 80 to 300 plat on single prime parts and in less then 4 to 8 hours that drop down to 5 to 20 plat if you try to sell the part, even on the RARE parts. While you trying to buy the item itself will end up with you running into people demanding as much as 50 to 90 plat for COMMON parts. Plus dont even give me that fking excuse of Trading or Haggling, no one gives a sheet on that in market chat and even with a WTS ignore filter up, i only run into troll messages or WTB (plat only) types of posts in market chat, ever. This is on PS4 console of course but the point is PLATINUM has been the norm for years because you can exchange it for ANYTHING, between other items in the market chat or the store itself, Trading for other goods unless its something you REALLY need, holds zero weight as far as value goes. Since if you cannot sell it for platinum or have someone else you can trade it with, the value is quite literally ZERO on it, meaning you basically got clucked on the trade on what you got for what you traded.

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Cons are sometime someone will rob you if you don't have information (we have outside source for that not to happen), text gets buried, missing some potential sales

Cons start way before even the lack of information, since it could be as easy as people chain repeating some price values like a bunch of parrots which tend to usually fall under people demanding X rare item for barely any platinum at all. Not because they are too poor, but because everyone else parroted what someone else said on top of them being Greedy as fk to shell out what would be a more accurate value of goods. Throw in the fact that people will usually shirk away from the abnormal value, such as a person wanting to sell the same item for 60 platinum instead of the 20 that been parroted by a bunch of people. Well Its no wonder why people would be greedy to only want to pay 10 platinum for a unique weapon stance that only drops off one particular RARE spawn enemy that has less then 1% drop chance and just a few months ago would normally be instant buy at 50-80 platinum.

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IMHO, this pros and cons still outweigh the auction house albeit we can still do improvement for the current system (like separate tabs deals and stuff, but that's for another topic I think)

I repeated the idea of separate tabs plenty of times and i wish D.E. would atleast do that, Since it at the very least could take advantage of D.E.`s auto bot prompt which will PM a player if they post particular words in chat, sort of like how recruit/region chat will prompt you if you say WTS or WTB in them to redirect you to market chat. But if a OTHER or GENERAL market chat will be present, likely lazies will still post riven mod and prime part messages in those even when there is clearly `prime part` and `riven mods` chat tabs, since most are idiots in market chat and skip out on typing riven or riv for riven mods or P or Prime for prime parts/sets.

This is kind of an extra why on a market board or auction house or even just scrap market chat completely and make a TRUE bazaar system at maroo`s where you could just have a kavat/kubrow/sentinel/moa baby sit the bazaar, complete with a search board connected to all the channels would be more tolerable since it allows Massive. Amounts. Of. Goods. To. Be. Able. To. Be. Manageable., If D.E. were to make a bunch of items untradable, then i am certain that market chat could start working again with less clutter mess able to be in it.

But it would need to be plenty of things such as:

• Unveiled riven mods (because that is a cancer-fest and would be more easy to manage if it was just VEILED mods that were trad-able)
• Non-prime variant weapon parts (namely just drastically boost the drop rate to resolve this headache parts or put in secret interactions with whatever boss/content they drop from that could allow a guaranteed drop of a part).

Again, could be others i could think of but brain is still a bit sleepy and mostly this is just me skimming ideas on D.E. needs to make some content be effort based to gain, instead of RNG-sus based loot.

Well, just going to hope 2020 DOES become the year where D.E. shifts to fixing the game up, instead of just dropping more broken content, which would likely break the game even further in many ways.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Avienas

[IamLoco]

A lot of games use the "person to person" trading approach. Trading should never be too easy, or the reward for a successfull trade will diminish. That´s part of the philosophy.

Auction houses ruin the economy, which eventually leads to reduced drop chances overall - which then punishes players who do not engage in trading (solo self farm style).

 

Look at Path of Exile (PoE) for example. Same system - but better implementation. You can trade from your home (called hideout, similar to the orbiter in warframe). You can also trade from any city and the transition between home and city takes a lot less time.

In Warframe - let´s say you´re in Cetus. Instead of being able to directly invite a trading partner into your game and trade in Cetus (which is, funny enough, a huge market), you need to return to your orbiter, then fly to your dojo, then rush to a trading post inside the dojo and usually still wait for your trading partner to appear on the trading list.

This is arduous, time consuming and clumsy.

 

What we need is a much better awareness of incoming trade messages with a visible notification and sound (currently, everyone just misses those).

We need to be able to trade in our orbiters and in any city or relay, as long as the trading partner is in the same location.

This alone would speed up the process a lot. Fine tuning or semi-automatic trades via an onboard console could come later.

 

Seriously - why do we even decorate our orbiters if we never receive guests? Just for ourselves? In my whole time in Warframe, on console and PC, I have never been on someone else´s orbiter nor have I ever had a guest on my own, This should change,

Edited January 3, 2020 by IamLoco

[Avienas]

48 minutes ago, IamLoco said:

A lot of games use the "person to person" trading approach. Trading should never be too easy, or the reward for a successfull trade will diminish. That´s part of the philosophy.

Auction houses ruin the economy, which eventually leads to reduced drop chances overall - which then punishes players who do not engage in trading (solo self farm style).

When value of good are very important, then yes, AHes can ruin marketing since your getting the convienence of having a middle-source to handle the same type of trouble one might have if they have to walk store to store in some rural town to look for say a `job` by literally directly going to the manager, instead of using job searching sites where one can do the same work in much less time. But the trade off of course is the so-called `artificial difficulty` being removed, which honestly should not be a thing. If people actually had the information on the drop rates of particular items, relatively available to them in-game, then those who actually have a brain to understand why the fk they don`t go farm it themselves, will then realize, said good is not easy to obtain, so they are paying for it instead to avoid the crunch to obtain it, on top of what value that item would bring to them for what they can use it for.

Warframe already has BAD drop rates on plenty of goods to begin with, so expecting the drop rates to be further lowered if a `auction house` were to be put in place, would be stupid enough to begin with. Especially when normally you would be getting `resource boosters` and `drop chance boosters` for the same thing, resources, not rare loot. Since the drop rate is so low to begin with, doubling a bad drop rate would have no real impact at all to begin with.

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Look at Path of Exile (PoE) for example. Same system - but better implementation. You can trade from your home (called hideout, similar to the orbiter in warframe). You can also trade from any city and the transition between home and city takes a lot less time.

Path of Exile also has an actual market board and i can just hoarde junk gear and scrap it for the `currency` in the game which also said goods can be used to improve the goods you like to keep so it serves a triple feature then just a regular currency(Currency gotten by scrapping junk thru npcs, resource that you use to improve gear without going thru other players and a currency between other players, plus maybe a few other things). But of course, for games like them, i do not need to go all the way to a freaking clan dojo (which for those without a clan , FKING G.G. cause dojos take alot of time to setup even a solo only one) and likely next to no one even remember maroo`s exist except for the free weekly ayatan statue, which is just as worthless as resource extractors these days, since arbitations and so many other ways to get endo exist these days.

Well, i guess the restriction to Path of Exile since i never got far into the game would be inventory space, but i assume you get other storage means much later into the game.

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In Warframe - let´s say you´re in Cetus. Instead of being able to directly invite a trading partner into your game and trade in Cetus (which is, funny enough, a huge market), you need to return to your orbiter, then fly to your dojo, then rush to a trading post inside the dojo and usually still wait for your trading partner to appear on the trading list.

This is arduous, time consuming and clumsy.

Damn straight, this is why it would certainly be nice if Trading posts were removed from dojos and we just went to other players Orbiters to trade or just let us open trading windows straight from chat. If D.E. wants to take the lazy approach to implementing some gameplay functionality, such as STICKING with dat old as fk game known as everquest style marketing, then they could atleast give us just as simplified systems to handle it.

Especially when it could be improved in so many ways such as opening a extra window or so where up to 2-4 people could be in it and maybe some extra functionality could be put into place with `accepting trades` such as a actual audible pinging system & auto-decline system once you are in a trade window so others can realize you already are buying/selling the good you said on market chat with another player.

But thats just me nit-picking some previous ideas i had a few months back on how D.E. could improve market chat in general with a slightly more auto-mated system of sorts.

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What we need is a much better awareness of incoming trade messages with a visible notification and sound (currently, everyone just misses those).

We need to be able to trade in our orbiters and in any city or relay, as long as the trading partner is in the same location.

This alone would speed up the process a lot. Fine tuning or semi-automatic trades via an onboard console could come later.

Sadly D.E. has so many things they need to gut, improve and change that likely need to take priority in some ways, such as how the railjack interface for customization, managing parts/resources and so many other bits needs a massive rehaul of tuning. The View progress U.I. needs some change ups cause if getting spammed by `rare resources` in railjack constantly blocking the `loot pool` and the mess of viewing the rewards you got wasnt an issue, its clear that D.E. needs to `tighten up` alot of elements such as the affinity gain of your weapons/warframe could be squashed a bit to open up more window space for other things, maybe gut the comparison records from the general view (aka another tab just like syndicates have one which also need to be squashed down alot) and maybe split up mission clear rewards and drop gain resources into separate window sections in its place

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Seriously - why do we even decorate our orbiters if we never receive guests? Just for ourselves? In my whole time in Warframe, on console and PC, I have never been on someone else´s orbiter nor have I ever had a guest on my own, This should change,

If we had people come to our orbiter to do trading, i would definitely care more about decorating my orbiter, which could at as a nice SIDE boon to make people want to invest more plat into the game to have a more pretty`d up ship. Since i am sure most people just use Fortuna & Cetus goods to deco thar ship alongside those freebie posters from twitch drops and baro, on top of absurd amounts of ayatan statues.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Avienas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

The current system has no stable price, in just a period of soon as a new prime drops people will troll out values of 80 to 300 plat on single prime parts and in less then 4 to 8 hours that drop down to 5 to 20 plat if you try to sell the part, even on the RARE parts.

This is due, not to the system but to supply and demand. As the number of potential sellers increases, price will go down. This is amplified by the fact that for the vast majority of tradeable items, we only need one single copy. So every person who purchases, moves permanently from the demand side to the supply side of the equation. 

 

All of the greedy people who support auction houses, fail to realise that the likely effect will be to flood the supply side of every single item in the game other than rivens which by definition are unique and lack competition. The price of everything other than rivens will plummet thanks to your "improvement". 

 

Now, let's save time because I can already hear the wheels squeaking in your head.l, shall we? 

"But guz if the prices plummet, newbs will be able to buy more stuff. What we lose in value we'll create in volume of sales. Those who couldn't afford to buy, will be able to get it now. The economy will thrive!" 

No. F2P gamers depend on the sales they get to make purchases. If prices plummet, they're going to make less, and thus have less to spend. 

The only people who benefit are people like me who buy bundles or those who already have a source of plat. Yes, I would probably benefit in the short term from the suggestion, but the entire game will suffer. That's a terrible plan. 

 

All of you need to stop being greedy and expecting people to pay top dollar for your prime junk. That's the real reason why most of you aren't getting your sales. 

[Test-995]

At the VERY least they should integrate warframe.market into game itself, changing online/offline state every time is exhausting.

[Anduvriel]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

No, PoE is the bare minimum, but even that is 20 years ahead of what DE has in Warframe right now.

Actually you are wrong. Trade system should be always judged by how it works for the average user, how users of the system perceive it. 

Tradeflow in warframe is not pipelined, when you are lower mr and trade a lot you will often see the constraints on it, like daily limit, time it takes to make a trade, human interaction. There are things to slow you down on purpose. If you have a problem with that, i have bad news for you, it wont change no matter what system will be here. Poe has the same, read Chris Wilsons trade manifesto. 

How a trade system works is how much time it takes you to find an item you want and buy it. My experience in warframe is it takes around 3-5 minutes tops. Everything for every item, rivens usually might take a bit longer, because they usually involve more plat. That is a working trade system. I never had any problems with it. 

In comparison the system that is in Poe you claim to be so much better does not even come close to 3-5 minutes per trade. Have you ever whispered 40+ people for an item in Poe and got no response? Thats a common thing there. It can take up to an hour to get a single item you need for your build, there are people that stop playing cause they have enough of it. My friend tried to buy a single unique item for his standard char for 2 months, a 40exa flask (ik standard right, who cares). I wont even start about scams, rmt, abuse that roam there unchecked. There is a recent trending video how one of the well known streamers got scammed on the stream during trade..

I dont know a single person in Poe that likes its trade or can say its good enough. On the other hand i don't know a single person in warframe that has a problem with its. 

You can say maroo baazar and trade chat in warframe are abominations, yes they are, but i never used them and traded a lot. Trade chat in Poe is even a bigger abomination than warframes so..

I dont see where you got those 20 years ahead. For me both are 90's shytty design and only the warframes actually works for what it is needed. 

If you compare forum here and in Poe you will see that here only few people have problem with trade, most want just seperate chat for riven trade. In Poe there are hundreds of threads of hundreds of enraged people talking about changing everything there is about Poe trade system. Its the single most hated thing in Poe, even labirynth ascendancy doesn't come close and you are advocating to spread that disease. I have no words.. 

Please, just don't. If you want me to take you seriously use any other example, just not that aberation. 

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

This is due, not to the system but to supply and demand. As the number of potential sellers increases, price will go down. This is amplified by the fact that for the vast majority of tradeable items, we only need one single copy. So every person who purchases, moves permanently from the demand side to the supply side of the equation. 

OMFG will you stop stalking these freaking threads!? Swear every time someone starts a talk about trading systems you start walking in with your Whining about standard market systems. Warframe`s marketing is no where close to a standard system its a clucked up freaking system that has no capability to function anywhere close to a toddler being able to learn what is a bad idea to shove in thar mouth by temperature alone.

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All of the greedy people who support auction houses, fail to realise that the likely effect will be to flood the supply side of every single item in the game other than rivens which by definition are unique and lack competition. The price of everything other than rivens will plummet thanks to your "improvement". 

Again shut up, stop repeating the same crap over and over. Your repeating the same non-sense and trying to sound like a big brain individual but your not, The point is not the fact we NEED a auction house, but the current market system is flawed in so many DANG ways that people want some form of change as simple as freaking SUB-CHANNEL system, DESPITE the fact that even that would be flawed in plenty of ways because you will just have people continue to be stupid by ignoring key terms necessary to properly convey what you want so people know the difference between one wanting to buy a Riven mod, A Prime Weapon set or the fiasco of them unable to tell the difference between a MOD and a Arcane despite literally using the link for a mod and then they act like a retard and act like they were saying arcane when clearly they were skipping out the KEY TERM, that quite literally separates what each one could mean.

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Now, let's save time because I can already hear the wheels squeaking in your head.l, shall we? 

"But guz if the prices plummet, newbs will be able to buy more stuff. What we lose in value we'll create in volume of sales. Those who couldn't afford to buy, will be able to get it now. The economy will thrive!" 

Sounding cute by using the `newbs could buy more, but it would ruin the economy` joke, but the fact people cannot learn to use HAGGLE or TRADE when its just as valid methods in the current market system but, NERP, everyone wants plat cause you can use plat for getting other stuff including the coveted `potatoes`, `slots`, `forma bundles`, `fancy cosmetics` and so on. Very sure i already pointed out the multiple flaws but you used to be able to trade statues for like 4 to 8 plat EASY and people could resell those things EZ, now people can`t trust that value anymore which acted as a great NEWB approach to getting goods because if 6 statues were worth 4-8 plat each that is basically a value of 24 to 48 plat, which considering most want to clutch the value on many things, whould easily mean one could get plenty of particular items for a bulk of statues: If they actually kept the trade value weight they retained for a long while. Instead now people want those statues for 1 plat each or treat them as no carry weight at all, some even going as far to demand a full set of statues for 2-3 plat.

 

If one cannot reliably use an alternative form of currency in how warframe operates currently, then its always going to be either people steal thar parent`s credit cards to get some plat so they can buy that fancy riven mod for a thousand plat despite it actually being a trash value, despite the fact you could trade another riven mod that IS A god roll, for likely 10 copies of the riven mod you are if both parties are actually saints instead of one being a ignornant newb and the other wanting to con the fk out of the `free plat source`.

Plus im not going to fall for the `gag` of `Well other consoles and PC-land marketing is much greener place`, because if a bunch of mooks are going to pull the b.s. game on one platform, then unless you have some kind of regulation going about on the other platforms that is actually ENFORCED, you can bet people on other platforms are going to pull the same crap.

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No. F2P gamers depend on the sales they get to make purchases. If prices plummet, they're going to make less, and thus have less to spend. 

Refer to Path of Exile ya mook, The issue is here that Warframe relies heavily on plat too much to process any playing, if people did not visit market chat at all, take advantage of `free plat playstation plus or similar packages` or just somehow lucked on give-ways, they`d be screwed on slot space or slowed the heck down on the slog for preparing forma or even potatoes.

Quite literally Warframe could not function at all except as a ridiculous drop rate game with plenty of `time delays`, if you were to take platinum out of the equation, without rehauling the heck out of the system itself.

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The only people who benefit are people like me who buy bundles or those who already have a source of plat. Yes, I would probably benefit in the short term from the suggestion, but the entire game will suffer. That's a terrible plan. 

Do i really have to continue repeating the existence of cancer known as riven mods and how much of a cluster fk marketing has gotten? Especially in the year of 2019 alone because of how much `variety` is now present in warframe`s market chat, that its likely doubled to maybe as much as quintuple in scroll speed if you were to remove all filters and measured the scroll speed it now goes by, especially if you were to do the same with the before/after effects of riven mods being introduced in it?

Changes need to occur, Doesn`t need to be a fking auction house, BUT FREAKING CHANGES NEED TO OCCUR TO DEAL WITH THE SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE VARIOUS SORTS OF `CRAP` THAT NOW LITTER MARKET CHAT AND LIKELY PART OF THE MAIN CULPRIT ON WHY SO MANY ARE GETTING LAZY/IMPATIENT IN DEALING WITH MARKET CHAT. Whether its them writing stuff differently or taking the time to watch market chat for similar items they are selling, to get a vague idea where they should be pricing thar goods(Since Warframe.market and other 3rd party sources cannot be used with much avail to get a some-what accurate way of selling goods effectively in warframe`s market chat).

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All of you need to stop being greedy and expecting people to pay top dollar for your prime junk. That's the real reason why most of you aren't getting your sales. 

I dont want to be greedy, i want to have value for the sheet i mined, instead of running into people who constantly think they can get a full prime set for 1 platinum or a single, no starred Ayatan statue or a Ammo drum. That is basically how market chat functions these day, people think they can give anyone ammo drums for anything else and no one will complain.

People need platinum for potatos, slots, rushing, cosmetics, forma bundles(since outside of mastery fodder your usually guranteed to need 3-5 forma PERIOD for any warframe/weapon grinding before you can bring it into any mid-high content), on top of absurdly low drop rate mods/parts/etc. stuff that they do not have time.

So freaking can it if you cant even talk about ALTERNATIVES to warframe marketing, because all i freaking hear from you is this: `If Someone talks about warframe marketing, they instantly are talking about auction houses and auction houses are the devil and it must be freaking purged`, that is basically what your white-knighting freaking self is sounding like right now.

So how bout ya`ll try flaunting that BIG BRAIN of yers and suggest other ways to handle the marketing system in more effective means, outside of what else has been suggested before, that could be a better measure then what the existing market system is like. Because if ALL I HEAR, is you saying `market chat is fine as it is` or `auction houses are bad` in some form or way, then you might as well stop replying at all. PERIOD.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Avienas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 minutes ago, Avienas said:

OMFG will you stop stalking these freaking threads!? Swear every time someone starts a talk about trading systems you start walking in with your Whining about standard market systems. Warframe`s marketing is no where close to a standard system its a clucked up freaking system that has no capability to function anywhere close to a toddler being able to learn what is a bad idea to shove in thar mouth by temperature alone.

Again shut up, stop repeating the same crap over and over. Your repeating the same non-sense and trying to sound like a big brain individual but your not, The point is not the fact we NEED a auction house, but the current market system is flawed in so many DANG ways that people want some form of change as simple as freaking SUB-CHANNEL system, DESPITE the fact that even that would be flawed in plenty of ways because you will just have people continue to be stupid by ignoring key terms necessary to properly convey what you want so people know the difference between one wanting to buy a Riven mod, A Prime Weapon set or the fiasco of them unable to tell the difference between a MOD and a Arcane despite literally using the link for a mod and then they act like a retard and act like they were saying arcane when clearly they were skipping out the KEY TERM, that quite literally separates what each one could mean.

Sounding cute by using the `newbs could buy more`, but the fact people cannot learn to use HAGGLE or TRADE when its just as valid methods in the current market system but, NERP, everyone wants plat cause you can use plat for getting other stuff including the coveted `potatoes`, `slots`, `forma bundles`, `fancy cosmetics` and so on. Very sure i already pointed out the multiple flaws but you used to be able to trade statues for like 4 to 8 plat EASY and people could resell those things EZ, now people can`t trust that value anymore which acted as a great NEWB approach to getting goods because if 6 statues were worth 4-8 plat each that is basically a value of 24 to 48 plat, which considering most want to clutch the value on many things, whould easily mean one could get plenty of particular items for a bulk of statues: If they actually kept the trade value weight they retained for a long while. Instead now people want those statues for 1 plat each or treat them as no carry weight at all, some even going as far to demand a full set of statues for 2-3 plat.

Refer to Path of Exile ya mook, The issue is here that Warframe relies heavily on plat too much to process any playing, if people did not visit market chat at all, take advantage of `free plat playstation plus or similar packages` or just somehow lucked on give-ways, they`d be screwed on slot space or slowed the heck down on the slog for preparing forma or even potatoes.

Quite literally Warframe could not function at all except as a ridiculous drop rate game with plenty of `time delays`, if you were to take platinum out of the equation, without rehauling the heck out of the system itself.

Do i really have to continue repeating the existence of cancer known as riven mods and how much of a cluster fk marketing has gotten? Especially in the year of 2019 alone because of how much `variety` is now present in warframe`s market chat, that its likely doubled to maybe as much as quintuple in scroll speed if you were to remove all filters and measured the scroll speed it now goes by, especially if you were to do the same with the before/after effects of riven mods being introduced in it?

Changes need to occur, Doesn`t need to be a fking auction house, BUT FREAKING CHANGES NEED TO OCCUR TO DEAL WITH THE SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE VARIOUS SORTS OF `CRAP` THAT NOW LITTER MARKET CHAT AND LIKELY PART OF THE MAIN CULPRIT ON WHY SO MANY ARE GETTING LAZY/IMPATIENT IN DEALING WITH MARKET CHAT. Whether its them writing stuff differently or taking the time to watch market chat for similar items they are selling, to get a vague idea where they should be pricing thar goods(Since Warframe.market and other 3rd party sources cannot be used with much avail to get a some-what accurate way of selling goods effectively in warframe`s market chat).

I dont want to be greedy, i want to have value for the sheet i mined, instead of running into people who constantly think they can get a full prime set for 1 platinum or a single, no starred Ayatan statue or a Ammo drum. That is basically how market chat functions these day, people think they can give anyone ammo drums for anything else and no one will complain.

People need platinum for potatos, slots, rushing, cosmetics, forma bundles(since outside of mastery fodder your usually guranteed to need 3-5 forma PERIOD for any warframe/weapon grinding before you can bring it into any mid-high content), on top of absurdly low drop rate mods/parts/etc. stuff that they do not have time.

So freaking can it if you cant even talk about ALTERNATIVES to warframe marketing, because all i freaking hear from you is this: `If Someone talks about warframe marketing, they instantly are talking about auction houses and auction houses are the devil and it must be freaking purged`, that is basically what your white-knighting freaking self is sounding like right now.

So how bout ya`ll try flaunting that BIG BRAIN of yers and suggest other ways to handle the marketing system in more effective means, outside of what else has been suggested before, that could be a better measure then what the existing market system is like. Because if ALL I HEAR, is you saying `market chat is fine as it is` or `auction houses are bad` in some form or way, then you might as well stop replying at all. PERIOD.

☝️ 

Can't figure out how you think that writing that much BS will make it more valid. 

Seriously if you don't understand what was said and why it applies, go let someone educate you. 

No, saying " many people think that this is a bad system" is NOT a valid justification for damaging it further. Not all change is good, and if you aren't smart enough to figure that out, you should just stop. 

Again, it's nobody's fault but your own that you have trouble figuring out how the filter works. 

You complain about the Ayatans dropping in value, because people are willing to demand less, but you're too dense to figure out how that same thing would apply to every other item in the game? Really? Let's try and explain:

Nobody is required to care about what you think is the value of the crap you mined. If you are too greedy to adapt to a changing market, you will alway have a hard time with trade. If you are too dim to understand how supply and demand affect prices you need to stop posting the same ridiculous BS on these threads. 

My suggestion to you is to learn how to use the current system efficiently, demonstrate an ability to think your way out of an open barn without assistance from others, and only then should you try to suggest making changes to what we have. 

 

[(PSN)thegarada]

Considering the game size it is kinda stupid that we do not have an auction house. This was discussed before, an online trading system is far superior in every economical aspect, for both the players and DE. And the current trading system brings players together the same way buying stuff from grocery store bring me and the cashier together; it has nothing to do with building community. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, (PS4)thegarada said:

Considering the game size it is kinda stupid that we do not have an auction house. This was discussed before, an online trading system is far superior in every economical aspect, for both the players and DE. And the current trading system brings players together the same way buying stuff from grocery store bring me and the cashier together; it has nothing to do with building community. 

No its just a very quick way to crash our economy. 

Our economic model doesn't enforce repeat demand. We don't have to repair or replace most items. Almost every item we can buy is identical to all other similar items, so there's no need to worry about quality, only price. 

Put an auction house in place and you allow infinite supply to meet highly finite demand. 

According to the historical posts people immediately complained about prices dropping on the introduction of warframe.market which doesn't include every player. An auction house would probably be many, many times worse. 

[Avienas]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

☝️

Can't figure out how you think that writing that much BS will make it more valid. 

The fact you took the time to read it so soon clearly proves you certainly `enjoy` these rant tangents.

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Seriously if you don't understand what was said and why it applies, go let someone educate you. 

I think it would be kind of silly i have to flaunt my education level to justify what i say as a long-time player of a game i enjoy enough to give out my opinion and what i have noticed on plenty of people have said also thru various medias, especially when asked about what they think of the marketing system in warframe.

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No, saying " many people think that this is a bad system" is NOT a valid justification for damaging it further. Not all change is good, and if you aren't smart enough to figure that out, you should just stop. 

I usually try to avoid the `many people` joke, since people will start a sheet fest over it and start `counter arguing` you are not the word of the people. But at this point, A change in the form of some kind of modernization needs to happen. There is a reason they redo the formula for something as simple as making soup and putting it in sealed cannons, Since some kind of issue can be found in it over a long period of time, a new method of making it more `healthier` can be figured out or just something as avoiding somehow the metal used to make the soup cans in some other region locale could cause some lethal reaction with the soup in the cans so it turns highly toxic.

If no real evaluation on long-standing systems occur at all, then either those who `use` those systems are too lazy to notice when people are having issues with it as newer things added to it OR its somehow miraculously future-proof to any form of addition to it. Which Trust me, its not the latter, even if you had rose colored telescopes on to examine it.

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again, it's nobody's fault but your own that you have trouble figuring out how the filter works. 

Oh hey the filter joke again! You certainly act like the SHARK you are and bite at that bit every time. I`m not even going to argue against this cause you just LOVE biting at this bait every time and maybe i should just randomly slip it in to troll you with it.

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You complain about the Ayatans dropping in value, because people are willing to demand less, but you're too dense to figure out how that same thing would apply to every other item in the game? Really? Let's try and explain:

Ayatans had trade weight, im not wanting to complain about the value of Ayatans, Its because its the only dang thing one could use in place of platinum at all. Its literally the Warbonds argument honestly, because people buy warbonds to expect to get money back after a war is over. Too fking bad that just like investing in stock that it becomes useless. Which honestly would not be an issue if warframe never `overly relied` on a platinum-based system for its marketing.

But lets not go further on that card since Warframe system was already fked in many ways when it had to over-ly rely on platinum to get to anything at a reasonable speed, especially when most of its systems are even more b.s. mobile on a CONSOLE GAME, compared to real b.s. mobile games.

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Nobody is required to care about what you think is the value of the crap you mined. If you are too greedy to adapt to a changing market, you will alway have a hard time with trade. If you are too dim to understand how supply and demand affect prices you need to stop posting the same ridiculous BS on these threads. 

One can only adapt to a changing market if there is actually any ground to stand on and your not blinded by a freaking sand wall that you are forced to look thru with no goggles at all in attempt to read those grains of sand that are INSIDE that sand storm, on what everyone is saying. Its not a matter of supply and demand, its the issue i could and i have QUITE LITERALLY in a period of 5 or less minutes, PM`d no less then 8 people offers to sell them items they wanted to buy, for 10 or less plat, some being 5 or less and still get no response at all, when each one was basically within 20 seconds or less of each of thar pms.

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

My suggestion to you is to learn how to use the current system efficiently, demonstrate an ability to think your way out of an open barn without assistance from others, and only then should you try to suggest making changes to what we have. 

And trust me i already have an efficient way.

• Filter out anything i do not want to see if i want to `earn` platinum by selling goods on those who want to buy
• Filter out anything i do not want to see that involve items i definitely do not plan to sell including: Riven mods, prime parts, prime sets, Kuva Liches and Arcanes.
• Filter out anything i know would only be stated by trolls: Girlfriends(or gf), Coupons, Nudes, Core aka `Legendary cores`, *insert terminology normally found in those too lazy to say riven in weapon texts* aka groll/grolls/hexa/crit.
• Filter out all the EXTRA b.s. terminology people use to get around trying to `sell` stuff at the same time of wtbs.

Which still leads to me still seeing people spamming out untradable BPs like Quellor/Pennant, avionics/salvage (which we STILL do not have the hotfixes for on ps4 yet) plus many other things that cannot really get `caught` by the filters.

But i am sure ya`ll going to say i filtered out too much stuff so i cant fking see anything, Well trust me i still get around a dozen or so lines of text per 1-2 minutes. Atleast that is tolerable to where i could actually take long sips of my coffee and not have the entire market chat message get replaced 3 times over with a bunch of rivens, prime parts and what not spam.

The issue is multi-folded though, since not only do i have to wait for a decent message to pop up for the wtb, i have to deal with enjoying to HOPE they respond to my PM, regardless if i posted a plat value to sell it to them or declare that i have the item and can sell it to them.

[Avienas]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No its just a very quick way to crash our economy. 

Our economic model doesn't enforce repeat demand. We don't have to repair or replace most items. Almost every item we can buy is identical to all other similar items, so there's no need to worry about quality, only price. 

R.Relics, R.Mods, Kuva lich `rerolling`, Railjack parts and avionics would like to have a word with you. Which clearly D.E. is going to likely steer that damn ship further into b.s. Random number systems if Riven mods did not hint that at all.

24 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Put an auction house in place and you allow infinite supply to meet highly finite demand.

Doesn`t need to be an auction house, but plenty of ways could regulate that `infinite supply` such as a limit on how many things you can post and how often you can put stuff up, maybe throw in a REPEAT tax to prevent people selling the same items in the same week, plus maybe add in a ascending credit tax as the quantity of goods increase for particular things that keep being put up, lulz?

24 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

According to the historical posts people immediately complained about prices dropping on the introduction of warframe.market which doesn't include every player. An auction house would probably be many, many times worse. 

Plus the same can be said that you could implement the same system into multiple different games and a different effect could likely happen to them. This is why i will keep freaking vouching we need an improvement to warframe`s marketing. Does not need to be an auction house, but certainly needs something to happen. Since its already a pizza that has become a entire fungsus and is covering most of the fridge in spores and the people who own the fridge (D.E), clearly are not showing any concern at all.

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

Gotta assume that DE makes some money from people not wanting to deal with trade. Not sure what incentive there is for DE to make it "better" in that respect.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

The fact you took the time to read it so soon clearly proves you certainly `enjoy` these rant tangents.

I'm on holiday. I'd had the thread open looking at the crap that people have been using trying to justify institutionalizing their own greed. The notification popped up. And really it's not like I haven't read and responded to that from you before. 

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

I think it would be kind of silly i have to flaunt my education level to justify what i say as a long-time player of a game i enjoy enough to give out my opinion and what i have noticed on plenty of people have said also thru various medias, especially when asked about what they think of the marketing system in warframe.

The fact that you can't figure out how supply and demand work in this game, strongly suggest that whatever education you have... You ain't going to be flaunting it. 

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

I usually try to avoid the `many people` joke, since people will start a sheet fest over it and start `counter arguing` you are not the word of the people. 

You should learn to identify when someone is making a joke. I don't need to be the word of the people, because fortunately what "the people" want, doesn't matter. What matters is the game, and the health of our in game economy. (Hint, that's also why you're unable to make trades, nobody cares about what you personally want.) 

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

Oh hey the filter joke again! You certainly act like the SHARK you are and bite at that bit every time. I`m not even going to argue against this cause you just LOVE biting at this bait every time and maybe i should just randomly slip it in to troll you with it.

Followed by:

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

And trust me i already have an efficient way.

• Filter out anything i do not want to see if i want to `earn` platinum by selling goods on those who want to buy
• Filter out anything i do not want to see that involve items i definitely do not plan to sell including: Riven mods, prime parts, prime sets, Kuva Liches and Arcanes.
• Filter out anything i know would only be stated by trolls: Girlfriends(or gf), Coupons, Nudes, Core aka `Legendary cores`, *insert terminology normally found in those too lazy to say riven in weapon texts* aka groll/grolls/hexa/crit.
• Filter out all the EXTRA b.s. terminology people use to get around trying to `sell` stuff at the same time of wtbs.

Which still leads to me still seeing people spamming out untradable BPs like Quellor/Pennant, avionics/salvage (which we STILL do not have the hotfixes for on ps4 yet) plus many other things that cannot really get `caught` by the filters.

That proves that you are doing it in a very inefficient, (and frankly nonsensical,) way. The fact that you are plainly unable to grasp how much your greed is impacting your strategy, and unable to step away and try a different method (after being told other ways that would work better for your claimed goals) says that you are highly illogical.

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

Ayatans had trade weight, im not wanting to complain about the value of Ayatans, Its because its the only dang thing one could use in place of platinum at all. Its literally the Warbonds argument honestly, because people buy warbonds to expect to get money back after a war is over. Too fking bad that just like investing in stock that it becomes useless. Which honestly would not be an issue if warframe never `overly relied` on a platinum-based system for its marketing.

But lets not go further on that card since Warframe system was already fked in many ways when it had to over-ly rely on platinum to get to anything at a reasonable speed, especially when most of its systems are even more b.s. mobile on a CONSOLE GAME, compared to real b.s. mobile games.

Hint, all systems using fiat currencies inevitably go to hell in a handbasket. Also the fact that you suck at speculating is not a great surprise right now. 

And I'm also pretty sure that warframe just topped the Steam sales charts for the year 2019, so you'll forgive me if I point out that your opinion doesn't carry much weight. 

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

One can only adapt to a changing market if there is actually any ground to stand on and your not blinded by a freaking sand wall that you are forced to look thru with no goggles at all in attempt to read those grains of sand that are INSIDE that sand storm, on what everyone is saying.

Learn to filter effectively. This is literally a "you problem". 

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

R.Relics, R.Mods, Kuva lich `rerolling`, Railjack parts and avionics would like to have a word with you. Which clearly D.E. is going to likely steer that damn ship further into b.s. Random number systems if Riven mods did not hint that at all.

Random number systems are literally the only way to give us what you are demanding, you silly pollock. Think about how little those things you just mentioned are compared to the rest of trade. 

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Doesn`t need to be an auction house, but plenty of ways could regulate that `infinite supply` such as a limit on how many things you can post and how often you can put stuff up, maybe throw in a REPEAT tax to prevent people selling the same items in the same week, plus maybe add in a ascending credit tax as the quantity of goods increase for particular things that keep being put up, lulz?

You remind me of the Scarecrow from Wizard of Oz, talking without thinking. Credits are meaningless in this game to anyone but a newb. And think about how many people play this game. It's not one or two people, it's hundreds of thousands per day. So the repeat tax will only hurt the people who grind hard on the day1 items. 

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Plus the same can be said that you could implement the same system into multiple different games and a different effect could likely happen to them. This is why i will keep freaking vouching we need an improvement to warframe`s marketing. Does not need to be an auction house, but certainly needs something to happen. Since its already a pizza that has become a entire fungsus and is covering most of the fridge in spores and the people who own the fridge (D.E), clearly are not showing any concern at all.

Warframe.market is this game and, this system. It gave a small scale insight into what you want to impose wholesale. It hurts the economy. 

Which part of this can't you wrap your brain around? 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

@Anduvriel

You seem to be assuming that I intend to remove trade chat,when that was never my intention. I am merely offering an alternative store method for players that don't mind making offers and waiting for replies. If you prefer to spam trade chat then that would be fine. This is also why I suggested limiting items listed in the store by MR so it is supplemental to the daily trade limit.

Personally I would prefer a social space in the Orbiter where players can setup a store for others to visit. Phantasy Star Universe used a system like this where the player's personal room was locked with a pass code, but the store could be opened to the public for trading. This allowed friends or guildmates into their store, but not the public. Or they could leave their store open to the public and lock it whenever they wanted. There was of course an item limit so players had to decide which items were important enough to list for sale, but often these stores served as a method for players to trade with their friends since only they had the pass code to enter. You could also leave messages for your friends when you visted. It made it feel like running an actual shop and you could also decorate it so it was personalized too.

Edited January 3, 2020 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 hours ago, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

Gotta assume that DE makes some money from people not wanting to deal with trade. Not sure what incentive there is for DE to make it "better" in that respect.

If DE took a small plat tax from the seller for every successful transaction then they would be actively removing plat from the game. Just use a minimum tax of 1 plat and make it 5% of the trade . This would discourage listing items like rivens, but make it convenient for prime parts and mods where selling items for 10-100p only incurs a nominal fee of 1-5p but saves the seller time.

Would you sell an item for 80p if you didn't have to wait for a buyer to message you and you got 76p for the sale? You could always do this on warframe.market but this would be accessible by every player in-game.

I have hundreds of items that are not worth spamming trade chat for hours to sell so this would be a benefit to me and it would give DE a way to remove plat from the game other than the market.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

If DE took a small plat tax from the seller for every successful transaction then they would be actively removing plat from the game. Just use a minimum tax of 1 plat and make it 5% of the trade . This would discourage listing items like rivens, but make it convenient for prime parts and mods where selling items for 10-100p only incurs a nominal fee of 1-5p but saves the seller time.

Would you sell an item for 80p if you didn't have to wait for a buyer to message you and you got 76p for the sale? You could always do this on warframe.market but this would be accessible by every player in-game.

I have hundreds of items that are not worth spamming trade chat for hours to sell so this would be a benefit to me and it would give DE a way to remove plat from the game other than the market.

LOL you think that with millions of people all willing to undercut you, that you are going to get 80p for whatever you are selling? 

Because we all have hundreds of items that we don't care enough about to spam trade chat. We often take just 1 plat for them. It's called prime junk for a reason. 

And here's the thing, if you list for 80 and I list for 70, you can bet your bottom dollar that someone else will list for 50 in no time, then 25, then 10 and 5.

Auction houses are a recipe for prices to "race to zero", because there's always going to be someone just a little more desperate for that plat than you are. 

 

 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

LOL you think that with millions of people all willing to undercut you, that you are going to get 80p for whatever you are selling? 

Because we all have hundreds of items that we don't care enough about to spam trade chat. We often take just 1 plat for them. It's called prime junk for a reason. 

And here's the thing, if you list for 80 and I list for 70, you can bet your bottom dollar that someone else will list for 50 in no time, then 25, then 10 and 5.

Auction houses are a recipe for prices to "race to zero", because there's always going to be someone just a little more desperate for that plat than you are. 

 

 

I have something most gamers don't: patience. I have been around gaming and player markets for more years than most gamers have been alive. Yes, the bottom of the market moves fast but if you understand prices and demand you can easily get a fair price for your items, you just have to wait for the supply of desperate prices to be removed. If that supply never gets used up then perhaps you were overvaluing that item.

Also, super low prices get bought up by resellers, not by players that need it. This helps to regulate the prices. Only if an item has a very limited supply can a market price be controlled and usually this promotes farming to help offset the limited supply, which often gives old content value.

And like I said, if you limit the number of listing per day then you create value based on diversity, so if you list items that have a common market then you can expect more competition with pricing, whereas if you list rare items you have less supply to compete against.

This isn't quantum physics, this is a player controlled market that has been part of gaming for over 20 years. It only fails when you allow player to cash out or items are so rare that the only plausible way to get them is from the auction house.

Edited January 3, 2020 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

I have something most gamers don't: patience. I have been around gaming and player markets for more years than most gamers have been alive. Yes, the bottom of the market moves fast but if you understand prices and demand you can easily get a fair price for your items, you just have to wait for the supply of desperate prices to be removed. If that supply never gets used up then perhaps you were overvaluing that item.

Also, super low prices get bought up by resellers, not by players that need it. This helps to regulate the prices. Only if an item has a very limited supply can a market price be controlled and usually this promotes farming to help offset the limited supply, which often gives old content value.

And like I said, if you limit the number of listing per day then you create value based on diversity, so if you list items that have a common market then you can expect more competition with pricing, whereas if you list rare items you have less supply to compete against.

You can have more patience than a statue. The lack of enforced repeat demand, or uniqueness of most items, coupled with the fact that every Tenno who owns one of the items is now on the seller's side of the equation, and you're looking at heat death of the universe coming before your sale. 

And that's coming from someone who's been around gaming and player markets since before most of the people playing have been alive. 

 

If there are people trying to corner the market doesn't mean that they will succeed (again no enforcement of repeat demand) and especially no guarantees that they'll be charging higher prices than your 80 p. 

Value based on diversity is well and good, if you only have a few players. Warframe currently has tens of millions of registered losers. With peaks of hundreds of thousands active players on a daily basis. 

Split that by hundreds of items and you are still only about as significant as a drop of water in the river. And the rest of us are actually trying to move while you are insisting on standing still. 

[Wolfdoggie]

title gore

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You can have more patience than a statue. The lack of enforced repeat demand, or uniqueness of most items, coupled with the fact that every Tenno who owns one of the items is now on the seller's side of the equation, and you're looking at heat death of the universe coming before your sale. 

And that's coming from someone who's been around gaming and player markets since before most of the people playing have been alive. 

 

If there are people trying to corner the market doesn't mean that they will succeed (again no enforcement of repeat demand) and especially no guarantees that they'll be charging higher prices than your 80 p. 

Value based on diversity is well and good, if you only have a few players. Warframe currently has tens of millions of registered losers. With peaks of hundreds of thousands active players on a daily basis. 

Split that by hundreds of items and you are still only about as significant as a drop of water in the river. And the rest of us are actually trying to move while you are insisting on standing still. 

Daily player counts are well under what you are stating. If you are betting the farm based on millions of players actively trading across 4 unique and isolated platforms then you will be living in a trailer home very soon.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Daily player counts are well under what you are stating. If you are betting the farm based on millions of players actively trading across 4 unique and isolated platforms then you will be living in a trailer home very soon.

1) Currently. But we have had concurrent peaks recorded of over 100k unique players on Steam alone since I started playing. 

2) You're free to do your own research as to the current number of registered losers. 

3) I only need to bet that I can consistently undercut players on PS4. You on the other hand need to bet on there being nobody on PS4, willing to undercut your price at all times. Since I have consistently been able to buy and sell items for less than the going rate on warframe.market I'd say one of those is a far safer bet than the other. 

4) Trailer parks aren't really a thing in my country, though recently some people have started converting multiple 40 foot shipping containers into affordable housing. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by (PS4)guzmantt1977

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

1) Currently. But we have had concurrent peaks recorded of over 100k unique players on Steam alone since I started playing. 

2) You're free to do your own research as to the current number of registered losers. 

3) I only need to bet that I can consistently undercut players on PS4. You on the other hand need to bet on there being nobody on PS4, willing to undercut your price at all times. Since I have consistently been able to buy and sell items for less than the going rate on warframe.market I'd say one of those is a far safer bet than the other. 

4) Trailer parks aren't really a thing in my country, though recently some people have started converting multiple 40 foot shipping containers into affordable housing. 

And I understand your concerns but with 6 listings in total per day for an MR30 (5 for current MR25+), that is only 5 million total listing across every tradable item even if there are a million unique logins. And lets be honest, a million unique logins per platform seems very high on a daily basis, especially as many will be well under MR25 limiting the amount of listing. Furthermore, not everyone will list new items or manage their prices daily. And this would create a proper player economy.

No more players in trade chat demanding 100p for an item that typically sells for half that just because the buyer has no reference point for cost. Trade chat would still be the go to for complete sets, but individual items would now have a solid estimate that isn't on a third party website. Sure, prices would go down as player unload their inventories but it would stabilize over time. New players could get full elemental and non-damaged mods at a decent price. And DE would be culling at least 5% of every sale. And if a mod bottoms out to 2p, perhaps that is what it should be worth.

EDIT: And before DE deleted all my settings and chat filters, I had excluded every riven and could filter for the items I wanted. The trade chat would fluctate based on time of day depending on which region is active. Typically prices went lower after school/work got out and then went back up later in the evening (values adjust based on active player counts). If you wanted items from Baro you got the best prices a couple hours after his items became available. Sure, undercutting happens in trade chat but it is not nearly as bad as you make it sound. If you want a better price, just sell it at a different time; it's like clockwork.

Edited January 3, 2020 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph