Avionic costs and potential build dilemma

[0_The_F00l]

Hey Guys,

Was doing some number crunching for theory crafting the ideal Railjack build (for me)

Noticed something very peculiar,

It is currently not possible to get the best (and most drain expensive) avionics even with the best reactor that gives 100 avionics, no surprise there right? its all about sacrificing for what you want.

But, its not even possible to get the worst (though most expensive among the weakest) avionics in the build currently without a Vidar reactor atleast in the 71+ range.

Reference table:
It is assumed that all the grids and avionics are maxed to get these values.

Spoiler

 

Note it is not all the avionics ,

The per drain is just to give a "effectiveness per drain" idea and does not indicate bonus gained per level,

 

			Sigma			Lavan			Vidar			Zetki
Avionic	Type	Effect	Effect	drain	per drain	Effect	drain	per drain	Effect	drain	per drain	Effect	drain	per drain
Bulkhead	intergated	health	90	3	30	120	5	24	256	10	25.6	506	17	29.76470588
Hyperstrike	intergated	Turret damage	40	5	8	76	8	9.5	101.2	13	7.784615385	121	13	9.307692308
Hullweave	intergated	Armor	35	3	11.66666667	70	5	14	216	8	27	253	13	19.46153846
Maxima		Shield	30	8		48	8	6	56	8	7	71.5	13	5.5
Conic nozzle	Integrated	Base speed				25.5	13	1.961538462	10	5	2	19.2	14	1.371428571
ion burn	Integrated	Boost speed				39.6	13	3.046153846	22.5	5	4.5	33.6	8	4.2
Ripload	Integrated	Ordnance reload				32	8	4	25	7	3.571428571	40.7	17	2.394117647
polar coil	Integrated	heat limit				56	6	9.333333333	42.5	3	14.16666667	66	11	6
Hyperflux	Integrated	Flux energy				45	7	6.428571429	56	8	7	99	17	5.823529412
Predator	Integrated	Critcial chance				40	2	20	47.5	3	15.83333333	72	8	9
Section density	Integrated	Critical damage				42.5	3	14.16666667	64	8	8	77	13	5.923076923
warhead	Integrated	Ordnance damage				56	8	7	60.5	13	4.653846154	71.5	17	4.205882353
Forward Artillery	Integrated	Artillery Damage				32.5	5	6.5	44	10	4.4	93.5	13	7.192307692
Battle Forge	Tactical	Reduce forge cooldown	120	8
Breach Quanta	Tactical	Pause breach	30	8
Fire Suppression	Tactical	REmove fire	8	8
Void cloak	Tactical	Invisible for duration	50	10
Form up	Tactical	return to ship and heal	100	10
Death blossom	TActical	Remove cooldown	30	10
Flow Burn	Tactical	Speed	??	13
Void hole	Battle3	Damage and CC	100 , 250 , 300	10
Particle Ram	BAttle2	Damage	6, 500	8
Blackout pulse	Battle1	Damage and CC	25, 150 , 300	10
Munitions Vortex	Battle 1	Damage	15, 150	6

Just for information

 

I checked what would be the 9 integrated + 3 Tactical + 3 battle in various fields

Most effective and expensive :194

Middle effective most expensive:142

Weakest most expensive: 101

Note i am not checking the actual effectiveness of the gear in a mission , just the cost to build.

Least expensive with no tactical or battle take 34 capacity (and this build really isnt any good beyond earth).

 

This leads me to the conclusion that you will never achieve that "ideal " build even with the best Vidar reactor of 100 capacity , (if it even drops) so start picking what you really want and be ready to see a few empty slots. Those with OCD better stop now.

a 50 capacity sigma 3 reactor will not even get you enough to fill half your slots properly.

My 82 capacity Vidar still has a battle slot and 2 tactical open, many of my integrated ones are subpar or not maxed so they would fit.

 

Note: This does not mean you need to have all of the avionics to get good , it is quite possible to complete veil with sigma 3 and a decent squad, but it will need more skill and co ordination. the equivalent to playing with a frame or weapon without potatoes.

Edited January 3, 2020 by 0_The_F00l
Forgot about base reactor capacity

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

3 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

But, its not even possible to get the worst (though most expensive among the weakest) avionics in the build currently.

Am i miss something?

119 (100+19) >101

[0_The_F00l]

6 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

Am i miss something?

119 (100+19) >101

My bad , forgot about the base 30 completely will update.

Edited January 3, 2020 by 0_The_F00l

[Askorti]

inb4 we get reactors mk4, mk5 and mk6... Each with progressively worse RNG, because why the hell not. xD

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

15 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Hey Guys,

Was doing some number crunching for theory crafting the ideal Railjack build (for me)

Noticed something very peculiar,

It is currently not possible to get the best (and most drain expensive) avionics even with the best reactor that gives 100 avionics, no surprise there right? its all about sacrificing for what you want.

But, its not even possible to get the worst (though most expensive among the weakest) avionics in the build currently without a Vidar reactor atleast in the 71+ range.

Reference table:
It is assumed that all the grids and avionics are maxed to get these values.

  Hide contents

 

Note it is not all the avionics ,

The per drain is just to give a "effectiveness per drain" idea and does not indicate bonus gained per level,

 

			Sigma			Lavan			Vidar			Zetki
Avionic	Type	Effect	Effect	drain	per drain	Effect	drain	per drain	Effect	drain	per drain	Effect	drain	per drain
Bulkhead	intergated	health	90	3	30	120	5	24	256	10	25.6	506	17	29.76470588
Hyperstrike	intergated	Turret damage	40	5	8	76	8	9.5	101.2	13	7.784615385	121	13	9.307692308
Hullweave	intergated	Armor	35	3	11.66666667	70	5	14	216	8	27	253	13	19.46153846
Maxima		Shield	30	8		48	8	6	56	8	7	71.5	13	5.5
Conic nozzle	Integrated	Base speed				25.5	13	1.961538462	10	5	2	19.2	14	1.371428571
ion burn	Integrated	Boost speed				39.6	13	3.046153846	22.5	5	4.5	33.6	8	4.2
Ripload	Integrated	Ordnance reload				32	8	4	25	7	3.571428571	40.7	17	2.394117647
polar coil	Integrated	heat limit				56	6	9.333333333	42.5	3	14.16666667	66	11	6
Hyperflux	Integrated	Flux energy				45	7	6.428571429	56	8	7	99	17	5.823529412
Predator	Integrated	Critcial chance				40	2	20	47.5	3	15.83333333	72	8	9
Section density	Integrated	Critical damage				42.5	3	14.16666667	64	8	8	77	13	5.923076923
warhead	Integrated	Ordnance damage				56	8	7	60.5	13	4.653846154	71.5	17	4.205882353
Forward Artillery	Integrated	Artillery Damage				32.5	5	6.5	44	10	4.4	93.5	13	7.192307692
Battle Forge	Tactical	Reduce forge cooldown	120	8
Breach Quanta	Tactical	Pause breach	30	8
Fire Suppression	Tactical	REmove fire	8	8
Void cloak	Tactical	Invisible for duration	50	10
Form up	Tactical	return to ship and heal	100	10
Death blossom	TActical	Remove cooldown	30	10
Flow Burn	Tactical	Speed	??	13
Void hole	Battle3	Damage and CC	100 , 250 , 300	10
Particle Ram	BAttle2	Damage	6, 500	8
Blackout pulse	Battle1	Damage and CC	25, 150 , 300	10
Munitions Vortex	Battle 1	Damage	15, 150	6

Just for information

 

I checked what would be the 9 integrated + 3 Tactical + 3 battle in various fields

Most effective and expensive :194

Middle effective most expensive:142

Weakest most expensive: 101

Note i am not checking the actual effectiveness of the gear in a mission , just the cost to build.

Least expensive with no tactical or battle take 34 capacity (and this build really isnt any good beyond earth).

 

This leads me to the conclusion that you will never achieve that "ideal " build even with the best Vidar reactor of 100 capacity , (if it even drops) so start picking what you really want and be ready to see a few empty slots. Those with OCD better stop now.

a 50 capacity sigma 3 reactor will not even get you enough to fill half your slots properly.

My 82 capacity Vidar still has a battle slot and 2 tactical open, many of my integrated ones are subpar or not maxed so they would fit.

 

Note: This does not mean you need to have all of the avionics to get good , it is quite possible to complete veil with sigma 3 and a decent squad, but it will need more skill and co ordination. the equivalent to playing with a frame or weapon without potatoes.

Interesting. Thanks for compiling it. 

 

I suppose the lesson is that maximizing all is impossible, so we should pick and choose what level we want to have them at, to achieve the effects that we want. 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

All hail Lootcifer, Warframe's new and only divinity!

Out with RNGesus, in with our great new lord! And out with our old holy saint, Clem, and in with our Shining Paragon of Grofit - John Prodman - from the greedy corpus.

Rejoice! For RNG stats are here to stay as a core part of the Warframe experience!

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[0_The_F00l]

10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Interesting. Thanks for compiling it. 

 

I suppose the lesson is that maximizing all is impossible, so we should pick and choose what level we want to have them at, to achieve the effects that we want. 

Pretty much, don't go farming for all the rare loot cause you won't be able to use it.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Pretty much, don't go farming for all the rare loot cause you won't be able to use it.

Uhh... No... Gotta go farming even more now so I can have different ranked sets for different configurations. 

🤔

Wonder if DE will give us configuration tabs as an option in the future like what we have for weapons and warframes..... 

[0_The_F00l]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Uhh... No... Gotta go farming even more now so I can have different ranked sets for different configurations. 

🤔

Wonder if DE will give us configuration tabs as an option in the future like what we have for weapons and warframes..... 

Or a space forma 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

16 hours ago, Askorti said:

inb4 we get reactors mk4, mk5 and mk6... Each with progressively worse RNG, because why the hell not. xD

Vidar Mk6 reactor with +250 Avionics capacity and 0.0002% drop chance from a rare Sentient enemy that only appears when an Anomaly is active  

DE: Reducing The Grind™

[Askorti]

2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Vidar Mk6 reactor with +250 Avionics capacity and 0.0002% drop chance from a rare Sentient enemy that only appears when an Anomaly is active  

DE: Reducing The Grind™

Don't forget it having a +50 to +250 capacity spread. 😛

[Kaotyke]

Yeah, it what I figured.

When i decided to max out each Avionic type of each house I noticed such. Like some Rank 7s having a stupid high Capacity Cost and when you put it besides a Rank 4 of the same type, there is a big gap in capacity but a relatively low Bonus between them.

Like Section Density (the CD one).

Vidar Gives 64% CD Maxed and Maxed grid and has 8 Drian. (x3,28)

Zekti Gives 77% CD Maxed and Maxed grid and has 13 Drain. (x3,54)

For me, unless I just want to absolutely max the damage outupt of the turrets, the 5 Drain points is just not worth the 13% Extra CD.

It actually makes builds more flexible.

 

[(PSN)Double991]

They could buff the grid to allow it to reduce avionics costs as some of them gain no increase to their effects when placed on a maxed grid point.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

They could buff the grid to allow it to reduce avionics costs as some of them gain no increase to their effects when placed on a maxed grid point.

I've run into a bug, that keeps showing the base stats on upgraded slots unless I remove and replace the avionic. 

Not sure if it's visual or actually impacts in mission. 

[TheGrimCorsair]

Nice, glad the devs were able to follow through on players actually having to make decisions about what they do and don't want, and where to shave points for a mod they want more of.

Sigma 3 reactor is definitely all you need for soloing veil, anything over +50 avionics is just icing on the cake.

[Foefaller]

I think it's a pretty interesting dilemma to have.

At least when the choice between houses is something like Polar Coil, where yeah Vidar is the "worst," but the gain per rank means that in a Rank 3 slot you get way more per drain point than the Lavan or Zekti versions, which might make it ideal in some loadouts where you can save more capactiy for your Zekti Hyperstrike or Hullweave while still having some amount of heat capacity buff.

But there can't be anything like the Vidar Hyperstrike, which is straight up worse than the Zekti version in all conceivable scenarios, with the same drain value and ranks, but less bonus per rank.

[0_The_F00l]

12 hours ago, Foefaller said:

But there can't be anything like the Vidar Hyperstrike, which is straight up worse than the Zekti version in all conceivable scenarios, with the same drain value and ranks, but less bonus per rank.

I feel thats probably an error and will be fixed,

the two are almost equally rare so i really dont see why the Vidar one exists.

Lets hope they fix it when they come back.