Cloudwalker's fix was uncalled for.

[Fairwing]

It is a terrible change.  Given that it was a completely opt to use feature that didn't disrupt game balance at all, changing it was completely uncalled for.  How about focusing on fixing features actually broken like iron staff with melee 3.0?

[-Ethos-]

35 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes, that's the fix.

It was a bug, now it's as intended or something, apparently.

It wasn't a bug originally. Pablo did mention in a stream prior that the speed seemed too fast to him, so he wanted to nerf it. He stated cooldowns weren't enough, so he would probably have to nerf it's speed. Like Banshee's Sound Quake Augment being stealth nerfed in early 2018 to have it's energy cost go from 25 to 100, this is another intended feature being nerfed.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, -Ethos- said:

It wasn't a bug originally.

"apparently".

[JackHargreav]

Meanwhile I just discovered that Valkyr can't heck consoles with Hysteria's invincibilty. 😠

[shut]

Sometimes I feel like the only Wukong player who cares about Cloudwalker's up/down motion being forgotten during the rework. The speed/acceleration improvements only applied to WASD, while trying to move up/down still feels like a dead snail swimming through molasses.

 

But yeah, thanks for listing all these bugs in one place! While DE is "fixing" CW, the least they could do is fix some actual bugs as well...

[-Kittens-]

On 2020-01-23 at 10:14 PM, Ham_Grenabe said:

They got map designs you MUST LOOK AT.

Oh I do, trust me, get hung up on every piece of map greeble every time without fail.

[Aexea]

On 2020-01-24 at 6:35 PM, DeMonkey said:

Yes, that's the fix.

It was a bug, now it's as intended or something, apparently.

I really don't feel as though they intentionally meant for it to be like this though. Right now it isn't affected by either the sprint button or the sprint speed stat itself at all. It's a ridiculous speed change and I could bullet jump much much faster than what it allows. They also butchered his Primal Rage after Melee Phase 2 and he isn't anywhere close to being a problem frame when you compare him to other frames. That would mean they reverted his new Cloudwalker from what it was meant to do with the rework and willingly left these bugs intact along with the change they did to both his Primal Rage's damage and slide attack movement.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Aerohardt

[NinjaZeku]

There's also still the "vault" bug, where you get teleported way back after Cloudwalker ends
if you started it too close to some object that allows that vaulting / climb up maneuver.

[selig_fay]

10 часов назад, Bloop сказал:

No matter how you had your controls, if you were sprinting and casted the ability in that state, you'd get the speed bonus.

As useful as it is, this is a bug that players have been abusing. If Wukong requires more speed now, then DE should make a shift switch for the ability itself. But this topic makes me think that very few people are interested in Wukong and lot of people used it only because of this bug.

[DeMonkey]

40 minutes ago, zhellon said:

As useful as it is, this is a bug that players have been abusing

Was it a bug? Or was it an intended feature that was rightly made use of that has since been deemed a bug?

I mean, sure the patch notes refer to it as a bug, but they also say the bug was with "sprint-toggle" which it blatantly wasn't.

[DeMonkey]

On 2020-01-24 at 7:16 AM, SortaRandom said:

but some input from a hold-to-sprint person would be nice

This is correct, hold sprint functioned exactly the same. Sprint into Cloudwalker and you retained the speed.

On 2020-01-24 at 10:29 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Monkey Boy can’t catch a break.

At least there's more people playing him now to create feedback threads on this, because I'm really not in the mood to waste my time making more.

[selig_fay]

1 минуту назад, DeMonkey сказал:

I mean, sure the patch notes refer to it as a bug, but they also say the bug was with "sprint-toggle" which it blatantly wasn't.

I think they have such spaghetti in their code that the person who fixed it might not have realized what they fixed. Also, there may be a situation in which the developer and the person who makes the posts are different people and they may not understand each other correctly. There are many options.

The important thing is that this looks like a bug, because the ability takes the player's current speed as a basis, although it should take the player's standard speed. And, the Wukong cloud is very similar to archwing, so there is no reason not to add the archwing accelerator there. This now works very well for Titania, which can almost compete with Gauss in speed. But I don't think the speed bug will be returned, because the ability already does quite a lot, namely:

1) Gives invulnerability, invisibility and disembodied.

2) Stuns enemies, which increases the damage from slash prock and allows you to spend melee finisher.

3) Provides huge mobility in the air. Better only razorwing.

4) Heals you, the clone, and the companion. And unlike most healings, the companion is healed even when you have full health.

And I'm a little saddened by the fact that people say "DE killed the ability, because now it doesn't have that much speed" when the ability still does so much.

[DeMonkey]

40 minutes ago, zhellon said:

The important thing is that this looks like a bug, because the ability takes the player's current speed as a basis, although it should take the player's standard speed.

To you perhaps. I'd personally think that, upon the rework, it taking the players current speed would be an intended change.

I mean, what about an ability factoring in your speed says "bug" to you?

Gauss considers your speed, as does Volt. Are their abilities bugged?

Edited January 25, 2020 by DeMonkey

[CopperBezel]

Sprint speed mods do still seem to be considered though. Just not the sprinting state.

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

As useful as it is, this is a bug that players have been abusing. 

I think you could use slightly more loaded language if you tried really hard. Literally just how it works normally if you cast while sprinting, which on toggle sprint is all the time. Abusing an exploit. Sure.

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

If Wukong requires more speed now, then DE should make a shift switch for the ability itself.

And yet they did not. Why do you feel that puts the onus on players, and not DE? If you described the "bug" (we don't know if it was one) as his sprint state "sticking" during Cloud Walker, "fixing" it would require making it switch in CW, and the "fix" provided wasn't one. It completely rests on assuming in advance which version is "right".

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

But this topic makes me think that very few people are interested in Wukong and lot of people used it only because of this bug.

Ah, look at you, you're the one true fan after all. 

Since Old Blood he's only had three abilities, and one of them's a very weak cousin to Nezha's Warding Halo. He can't afford to lose a lot more. Now watch his Twin being useful turn out to have been a bug all along, too.

21 minutes ago, zhellon said:

And I'm a little saddened by the fact that people say "DE killed the ability, because now it doesn't have that much speed" when the ability still does so much.

Don't forget status cleanse as well.

It'd be useful to me 10 MR ago or so in this state. Void dash and Magus Repair mean I've really got the better part of the other perks with any frame now. Pack Leader makes CW's pet healing nice, but very much a small convenience. The mobility is the only thing unique about it. (And I don't need another video of Wukong glitching along in space in the Simulacrum to prove otherwise, thanks. That is what abusing bugs looks like.)

Wukong is full of nice little extras in the ways things work and interact, but he's one more solid nerf away from being pure QoL with no actual abilities or function.

Again, the nerf is supposedly only a loss of like 1/6 of his total speed, in which case it doesn't even matter. It does not feel like that, it feels like he's lost half. All the difference in whether or not this is, in fact, killing the one ability that's holding up this particular frame is in that difference, and I'm not sure where it is in reality. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by CopperBezel

[selig_fay]

1 минуту назад, DeMonkey сказал:

I mean, what about an ability factoring in your speed says "bug" to you?

Guess considers your speed, as does Volt. Are their abilities bugged?

What's the problem with Gauss and volt? Volt uses the ability to increase his speed. These are different things. The only way to increase Gauss ' ability is by modding for speed. I haven't used Gauss that often, but I don't know any other way.

In any case, if they made a fix for this thing, then it didn't work as intended. I also think that this fix was not to "destroy the fun of the players" and the like. Perhaps Wukong, like Titania, is part of the archwing system, and since DE are working on Titania now, there may have been a conflict somewhere. Well, I think that maybe DE will provide the old speed, just with different functionality, or just increase the default speed of ability.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, zhellon said:

What's the problem with Gauss and volt?

There is no problem. 

2 minutes ago, zhellon said:

The only way to increase Gauss ' ability is by modding for speed.

That's how you increased Cloudwalkers speed as well, by modding for it. Those who used toggle sprint didn't have a say in the matter, the "abuse" (lol) speed was their default speed.

[Arsonistic]

8 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

According to this thread, there was no bug (i.e. people could sprint in Cloudwalker regardless of whether they used sprint toggle), contrary to DE's claim. I can't verify this myself, since I use sprint toggle, but some input from a hold-to-sprint person would be nice.

39 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

This is correct, hold sprint functioned exactly the same. Sprint into Cloudwalker and you retained the speed.

Not even that, sprinting in general (including hold-to-sprint) worked exactly like normal running inside Cloud Walker; you could press/release sprint when using Cloud Walker to increase/decrease your speed dynamically. You weren't forced to remain at the speed you had when entering Cloud Walker.

[selig_fay]

1 минуту назад, DeMonkey сказал:

That's how you increased Cloudwalkers speed as well, by modding for it. Those who used toggle sprint didn't have a say in the matter, the "abuse" (lol) speed was their default speed.

If Gauss increases his speed in many times simply because he presses shift before casting the ability, then Yes, DE should fix it. 

[DeMonkey]

Just now, zhellon said:

If Gauss increases his speed in many times simply because he presses shift before casting the ability, then Yes, DE should fix it. 

Look, in the sky.

Is it a bird? 

Is it a plane?

No, it's the point flying over your head.

[selig_fay]

4 минуты назад, DeMonkey сказал:

Look, in the sky.

Is it a bird? 

Is it a plane?

No, it's the point flying over your head.

OK. Maybe I'm wrong. But, I just wonder how one fix can make a "I can use this everywhere" class frame into a "it's useless" class frame.

[Arsonistic]

4 minutes ago, zhellon said:

OK. Maybe I'm wrong. But, I just wonder how one fix can make a "I can use this everywhere" class frame into a "it's useless" class frame.

Wukong is decent at a lot of things, but his only exceptional attribute was his speed. Take away that speed and he's just a mediocre jack of all trades.

[DeMonkey]

16 minutes ago, zhellon said:

OK. Maybe I'm wrong. But, I just wonder how one fix can make a "I can use this everywhere" class frame into a "it's useless" class frame.

I'm not saying he's useless, I'm saying it's not necessarily a bug and it definitely wasn't abused.

I.e. Having toggle sprint enabled and activating cloud walker is not even remotely a form of "abuse".

Edited January 25, 2020 by DeMonkey

[CopperBezel]

12 minutes ago, Arsonistic said:

Wukong is decent at a lot of things, but his only exceptional attribute was his speed. Take away that speed and he's just a mediocre jack of all trades.

Yep. Other useful things about Wukong include built armor from his 3 extending to pets through Link Armor and being able to line up a shot in 4 while invisible. Big pile of QoL and handy little bonuses, but this had become his One Big Thing since his rework.

Edited January 25, 2020 by CopperBezel

[Arsonistic]

On 2020-01-24 at 7:31 PM, peterc3 said:

When has DE acknowledged speedrunning as anything more than a novelty?

Speedrunning is used as an example of why I used to enjoy the ability.

The main point here is that they took a feature that a lot of people enjoyed and then "fixed" it.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

DE has constantly changed nearly every feature that allowed for speed running. This shouldn't be a surprise. 

I do think they should still allow it, with lower inherent speed so players have the option to mod for it though.