Cloudwalker's fix was uncalled for.

[DeMonkey]

4 hours ago, Bloop said:

~snip~

There's a couple of things I find interesting about that clip.

1) Not once does he refer to it as a bug. If it were a bug the comment would be "it's a bug that'll get fixed", not "I tried to nerf it in 'x' way". This is of course not represented in the patch notes, which declare it was a bug with an irrelevant mechanic.

2) How many enemies did Pablo kill during that clip? None. He himself was "skipping the level" or whatever he referred to it as, just slightly slower. That is the game they have created, if skipping the level is actually considered a problem (which it is of course) then when can we expect some changes to the game that stop us from just bullet jumping and Operator dashing past everything?

[seprent]

47 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

There's a couple of things I find interesting about that clip.

1) Not once does he refer to it as a bug. If it were a bug the comment would be "it's a bug that'll get fixed", not "I tried to nerf it in 'x' way". This is of course not represented in the patch notes, which declare it was a bug with an irrelevant mechanic.

2) How many enemies did Pablo kill during that clip? None. He himself was "skipping the level" or whatever he referred to it as, just slightly slower. That is the game they have created, if skipping the level is actually considered a problem (which it is of course) then when can we expect some changes to the game that stop us from just bullet jumping and Operator dashing past everything?

Shield lancers learn how to play soccer with both bullet jumping warframes and void dimensional kiddos as balls and just stand in a door 

[selig_fay]

2 минуты назад, seprent сказал:

Shield lancers learn how to play soccer with both bullet jumping warframes and void dimensional kiddos as balls and just stand in a door

I don't think he would be happy with this answer, because: Wisp, Titania. Maybe there's something Wukong can do that other frames can't.

[p_silveira]

I'm foreseeing a pattern here, just like what happened with Ember. First DE makes the frame very good to play with, then starts to nerf it, and nerf it, and nerf it again, until it becomes useless to play with (again) and needs another rework. I mean, why??

[Nyllith]

Il y a 21 heures, EinheriarJudith a dit :

i tend to agree with you most often monkey. but not here. im one for consistency and to me nothing was lost. i never noticed such a feature playing wukong. then again i dont use cloud walker as some kind of speed skill.

This is one of the most ridiculous argument I have seen in favor of this nerf.

There never was any consistency issue. You could get into fast cloud walker with hold sprint simply by sprinting the moment you toggled cloud walker on.

Cloud walker basically snapshooted your running speed on toggle and kept it that way until you got out of it (you could not slow down by releasing the sprint key once you casted 2, you had to cast it again). And I tested this multiple times because I had to switch to hold sprint to play railjack and forgot to switch back once I was back on Wukong.

Nothing of what you said makes sense. This is just an arbitrary half assed nerf, nothing more (you can still get pre nerf speed by holding crouch during cloud walker, but it's really annoying). The fact you played wukong in a suboptimal way doesn't take away that people have the right to be pissed that wukong lost the one tool that made him unique and valuable in certain situations. If you use cloud walker with the regular 30m/s speed, he's just a mediocre jack of all trades like he used to be before the rework.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Nyllith

[vFlitz]

7 hours ago, Nyllith said:

Cloud walker basically snapshooted your running speed on toggle and kept it that way until you got out of it (you could not slow down by releasing the sprint key once you casted 2, you had to cast it again). And I tested this multiple times because I had to switch to hold sprint to play railjack and forgot to switch back once I was back on Wukong.

Not entirely true, I know for sure that I could also turn sprint on while already in cloud walker and the speed would increase, so snapshot isn't the right way to call it. Can't say I've ever tried to turn it off while the ability was active though, so not sure if it went both ways or not.

[Arsonistic]

16 hours ago, vFlitz said:

Not entirely true, I know for sure that I could also turn sprint on while already in cloud walker and the speed would increase, so snapshot isn't the right way to call it. Can't say I've ever tried to turn it off while the ability was active though, so not sure if it went both ways or not.

It went both ways. Sprint worked exactly like normal running; you could turn it on and off at will while in Cloud Walker.

[Nyllith]

il y a 27 minutes, Arsonistic a dit :

It went both ways. Sprint worked exactly like normal running; you could turn it on and off at will while in Cloud Walker.

Don't want to be that guy, but both of you are remembering wrongly if I may say so. It was a definitive snapshot for the whole duration, you could not change the speed while cloud walker was toggled on.

But whatever, this isn't even important to the whole point of the thread anyway. The nerf sucks and is completly unjustifiable and we can all agree to that.

[Arsonistic]

13 minutes ago, Nyllith said:

Don't want to be that guy, but both of you are remembering wrongly if I may say so. It was a definitive snapshot for the whole duration, you could not change the speed while cloud walker was toggled on.

But whatever, this isn't even important to the whole point of the thread anyway. The nerf sucks and is completly unjustifiable and we can all agree to that.

Nope. I've got hundreds of hours of playtime and a solid 26s personal best on Ukko. I know him in and out.

But considering that you're not the first saying otherwise I'm thinking it might not have been the same for everybody. I know it worked exactly like normal sprint for me and I never used sprint toggle, but it might not have been that way for everybody? Seems weird..

[shut]

14 hours ago, Nyllith said:

Don't want to be that guy, but both of you are remembering wrongly if I may say so. It was a definitive snapshot for the whole duration, you could not change the speed while cloud walker was toggled on.

I'm not sure whether you're referring to hold-to-sprint or just Cloudwalker in general, but I can absolutely 1000% confirm that you could freely enable/disable sprinting in Cloudwalker if you used sprint toggle. No "snapshotting" of any kind.

[DeMonkey]

23 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I'm not sure whether you're referring to hold-to-sprint or just Cloudwalker in general, but I can absolutely 1000% confirm that you could freely enable/disable sprinting in Cloudwalker if you used sprint toggle. No "snapshotting" of any kind.

Definitely referring to held sprint then, which did work that way. Ironically functioning completely the opposite of "held" where you could let go of sprint post-cast and you wouldn't slow down.

Guess there was an inconsistency then. Toggle sprint users could slow down mid cast, which given the reason for the fix was going too fast, shouldn't even be relevant.

[Arsonistic]

7 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Definitely referring to held sprint then, which did work that way. Ironically functioning completely the opposite of "held" where you could let go of sprint post-cast and you wouldn't slow down.

Guess there was an inconsistency then. Toggle sprint users could slow down mid cast, which given the reason for the fix was going too fast, shouldn't even be relevant.

Well, idk if you used Toggle Sprint or not, but I didn't use it and I could slow down in the cloud with (by releasing)Hold Sprint. Only weird thing is that others are reporting that they couldn't do that.

[shut]

3 hours ago, Arsonistic said:

Well, idk if you used Toggle Sprint or not, but I didn't use it and I could slow down in the cloud with (by releasing)Hold Sprint. Only weird thing is that others are reporting that they couldn't do that.

Interesting. Maybe it has to do with whether you were holding "Sprint/Dodge" versus a dedicated "Sprint" button?

[vFlitz]

44 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Interesting. Maybe it has to do with whether you were holding "Sprint/Dodge" versus a dedicated "Sprint" button?

Well it's Warframe, so it's as good a guess as any. For reference, I used the dedicated sprint keybind

[Arsonistic]

5 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

Interesting. Maybe it has to do with whether you were holding "Sprint/Dodge" versus a dedicated "Sprint" button?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That's probably why, yeah. I always use dedicated buttons.

I mean, who the heck wants combined buttons when you've got literally 100 keys on your keyboard? 😛

[Nyllith]

Il y a 17 heures, SortaRandom a dit :

Interesting. Maybe it has to do with whether you were holding "Sprint/Dodge" versus a dedicated "Sprint" button?

This may be the best explanation so far, because I indeed used the combined key, and couldn't change speed on toggle and hold.

[SECURATYYY]

You could enable and disable sprint while cloud walking. I used toggle sprint.

[Kareekoe]

Before the 27.0.12 patch, the Cloud Walker ability was affected by sprint and sprint speed.

when 27.0.12 patch came out, the ability was no longer Affected by sprint speed.

This was a mistake.

Cloud walker is now so slow that it's pointless to use, people who used Wukong for his used to be fun Cloud Walker ability will now no longer use him because it's no longer fun.

Cloud Walker was fun simply due to how customizable it was in relation to sprint speed and sprint speed mod builds.

You could customize and build towards the speed you wanted to with all sorts of different sprint speed mod combinations, having some, all, or none, you had player choice and the ability to find what speed you were comfortable with and what you wanted.

Each speed had it's own unique learning curve to experience, it's own level of casual all the way up to challenging and demanding of skill the faster or slower you made it, allowing for all players to have their own level of speed and have flexibility, choosing slower or faster on will with changes to their load outs, if it's too fast, they can make it slower by taking one sprint speed mod off and making the total sprint speed slower and if it's too slow for them, they could put on more sprint speed mods and make themselves faster.

This was a great thing within Wukong and his ability customization, and removing it just made him less customizable, it only provided us with less things we can do with Wukong.

DE, i thought what you wanted for this game was to add more customization, not have less, not remove customization?

you did a very anti-DE thing, you did something that goes against what you say you want for the game, and that's not a good thing.

Please revert these changes or re-add sprint/sprint speed to affect Cloud Walker, on a more official level and call it official.

you might call it a "bug" but we don't, we praised it and loved it like it was a feature.

So please, put it back in, and officially consider it a feature..

There are a lot of things in really popular video games that once started as a bug and became an iconic feature, a bug that benefited part of the game's content and was not unhealthy or bad for the game to run, these unintended bugs could become great features if they are allowed to be.

Why not allow this one "bug" to become a feature? it doesn't hurt the game in anyway, it doesn't exploit anything, it doesn't break the game, it doesn't dupe items, and doesn't kill the game's economy, it's a harmless fun "bug"/feature just trying to be it's own thing..

Edited February 12, 2020 by Kareekoe
Revealing my true feelings.

[Syasob]

Never used sprint 'feature' for Cloud Walker since rework and nevertheless he is one of my favorite frames now.

So no, sprint speed is not crutial for CW to be a great movement skill.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Syasob said:

he is one of my favorite frames now.

Why only now? Why not back when his 4 was actually good?

[DeMonkey]

2 hours ago, Kareekoe said:

Though an unintentional bug that toggle sprint allowed which was the reason Cloud walker gained the effects of sprint stats.

No, don't just parrot the patch notes, the patch notes are wrong. Toggle Sprint has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

2 hours ago, Kareekoe said:

make it so that Sprint, no matter if it's activated through Toggle sprint or Hold sprint, both will work and function the same but with a somewhat difference given how they are in control.

That is exactly how it did work.

[FLSH_BNG]

Never even knew you could 'sprint' as a cloud. I was going fast enough as it was just popping up behind enemies with a pointy stick.

[Syasob]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Why only now? Why not back when his 4 was actually good?

Unlike my Celestial Twin I don't like using staves, sorry. And let's not go too offtopic.

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 hour ago, Kareekoe said:

Though an unintentional bug that toggle sprint allowed which was the reason Cloud walker gained the effects of sprint stats.

I refuse to believe that was a bug, it was an intentional feature. DE likes to say its a bug so they technically have an excuse to nerf it. They did the same thing with Chroma's Vex Armour after three years of it being in the game, when the real reason was that they didn't want people one-shotting one enemy in particular.

Why Cloud Walker was nerfed, who the helheim knows as unlike Vex Armour, it mainly affected nothing but the players mauverability. It wasn't causing anyone grief nor was it breaking anyones individual game exprience. A bug is traditionally defined as something that negatively affects the game and/or its economy. Cloud Walker did neither.

It was pure fun to learn how to fly using Wukong and to just spend whole sessions zipping around the maps.

I don't know why DE thinks nerfing things like this is a great idea, as all it does is lower the fun of the game just that little bit more. First his Staff is nerfed indrectly through the death of Condition Overload in melee 3.0, now the only thing besides his staff that really sold people on him has been nerfed as well. It's a damn shame.

[Senguash]

Yeah, I really don't understand why they don't want to make new/reworked frames fast.

I like nova and volt, but the variety was nice while it lasted.