Trying to make any single sense out of revenant lore

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

20 minutes ago, nslay said:

I mean... you are reasoning with imagined concepts which could have any imagined definition and property! It's silliness I say!

For example, Spider Man was bitten by a spider and the venom only gave him strength. He's still very much a human... just with some powers. He wasn't corrupted into a radioactive spider.

Another example: In Diablo, the Wanderer was possessed by Diablo. He was corrupted into Diablo incarnate. He was no longer human.

So what would happen if your blood was tainted with mystical dark energy? I think you might turn into a mystical unicorn that breaths dangerous streams of confetti and party balloons... a party unicorn with a dark side!

IDK, but if a Warframe is corrupted by Eidolon energy he very logically would become an Eidolon Warframe with Eidolon powers.

[nslay]

31 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

IDK, but if a Warframe is corrupted by Eidolon energy he very logically would become an Eidolon Warframe with Eidolon powers.

I somewhat agree with you about his theme, but whatever Eidolon energy entails and whatever corruption means is entirely up to our imagination (or DE's should they ever clarify).

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If I get a blood infusion. And that blood is tainted with mystical dark energy. I would then be corrupted by that energy. Would I not?

There is nothing about Eidolons that justify Revenants first 3 abilities. They share 0 common traits outside of their appearance. Eidolons can Mind Control, they don’t have a charges based defense system that puts you to sleep, and they don’t rush through you as a wall of mist snapping away your health. This whole debate has been about how his 1-3 doesn’t make any sense and this entire time you’ve been saying “They make sense because Revenant has them”? The whole debate is that Revenant shouldn’t have them!

You’re the one who went on like 15 rants about undead this and ghost that and somehow came to the conclusion that Revenant should be a vampire frame. Vampires aren’t the only types of Revenants. And I already told you that holding a Warframes name up against their theme and expecting them to match 100% is a fools errand. So saying that he should be a vampire based strictly off his name doesn’t hold up. Not to mention his theme was chosen before his name was even officially decided on.

So you will say that their appearance can be altered by their surroundings, but they can’t also obtain new abilities if that environment is something like an Eidolon dimension that slowly corrupting the Warframe and changing it from what it used to be? I mean we can go back to how his 4th ability is described as eidolon lasers. We can go into the development history and see that it was added because Steve wanted Revenant to be more Eidolon themed. But apparently none of that matters because you think his name being Revenant immediately means he should be a vampire.

Blood transfusion not infusion.

So? I'm not saying he has eidolon abilities. You're really starting to ramble like a madman here. 1-3 = Abilities found on vampires and the like. And DE juggled around both concepts and it fell more on the whole vampire theme. And agreed, revenant shouldnt have eidolon/sentient specific skills because it would make zero sense on a frame. Good he doesnt have those then.

No you are the one that somehow got the idea that undeads have been mentioned. The only use of the word undead was to describe the eidolons, that are "undead" parts of a greater sentient. I'm glad you are finaly catching on that vampires arent the only revenants, I've only been saying that from the first post I made in the other thread. Only took you several pages and several threads to get that. You are also getting it ass backwards here. The skills arent justified by the name of the frame, they are justified in the concept of the revenant creature, which vamps are part of. They didnt get their blood drinking with fangs, bats and other things until much later. The earliest versions are just the same as other creatures that nowdays go under the group name revenants, it was soley based on which culture the story came from. His 1-3 fits perfectly in on ancient vamps.

There is no eidolon dimension. I mean heck, where do you even come up with these things? The reason his 4 behaves as it does can easily be explained in that the specter we defeat and somehow get a reverse engineered BP from (or just use straight up as a holo-bp) had it's "spirit" "invaded" by an eidolon just as nakak's story claims. But that was still just a specter and not the actual frame. Because it can impossibly be the frame, since the grineer have already started to dig up pieces of it as the actual quest story tells us, long before we go out and face the "warden". So what we get is some feint visual remnant of the "possessed/invaded" specter. And that is purely by going on the story and the timeline within it.

That is if any of what actually went down on the plains around us and rev actually happened. It could have also just been a test by the Unum that all happened in our head as a vision.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Blood transfusion not infusion.

So? I'm not saying he has eidolon abilities. You're really starting to ramble like a madman here. 1-3 = Abilities found on vampires and the like. And DE juggled around both concepts and it fell more on the whole vampire theme. And agreed, revenant shouldnt have eidolon/sentient specific skills because it would make zero sense on a frame. Good he doesnt have those then.

No you are the one that somehow got the idea that undeads have been mentioned. The only use of the word undead was to describe the eidolons, that are "undead" parts of a greater sentient. I'm glad you are finaly catching on that vampires arent the only revenants, I've only been saying that from the first post I made in the other thread. Only took you several pages and several threads to get that. You are also getting it ass backwards here. The skills arent justified by the name of the frame, they are justified in the concept of the revenant creature, which vamps are part of. They didnt get their blood drinking with fangs, bats and other things until much later. The earliest versions are just the same as other creatures that nowdays go under the group name revenants, it was soley based on which culture the story came from. His 1-3 fits perfectly in on ancient vamps.

There is no eidolon dimension. I mean heck, where do you even come up with these things? The reason his 4 behaves as it does can easily be explained in that the specter we defeat and somehow get a reverse engineered BP from (or just use straight up as a holo-bp) had it's "spirit" "invaded" by an eidolon just as nakak's story claims. But that was still just a specter and not the actual frame. Because it can impossibly be the frame, since the grineer have already started to dig up pieces of it as the actual quest story tells us, long before we go out and face the "warden". So what we get is some feint visual remnant of the "possessed/invaded" specter. And that is purely by going on the story and the timeline within it.

That is if any of what actually went down on the plains around us and rev actually happened. It could have also just been a test by the Unum that all happened in our head as a vision.

Same difference. Its still injecting an outside substance into someone.

Odd, you saying I’m rambling like a madman when your 3rd to last comment I could barely make out what you were trying to even get across.
 

Revenants first 3 abilities still heavily lean on the side of vampire far more than they do Eidolon. I don’t know how you can mistake what I said as “Eidolon frame shouldn’t have eidolon powers” since that’s what I’ve been arguing against this entire time. So I’ll just take this as you lying to try and confuse me.

Revenant does have Eidolon specific abilities tho. His 4 is an array of lasers, and Eidolons fire lasers. His passive is also a very very s*** version of the big pulse they let out every time you destroy a synovia.

You have mentioned undead several times to justify Revenants vampire theme. Claiming that you haven’t doesn't do anything for you. 

I don’t know how you can acknowledge different undead but then still see Revenant and point to him and say “That should be a vampire”. Revenants are not immediately vampires. 

Eidolons have nothing in common with ancient vampires. So havIng a frame modeled after the Eidolons having vampire powers doesn’t make sense. He should have Eidolon powers to reflect his Eidolon appearance and his Eidolon backstory, and his Eidolon wife, and his Eidolon children, and his Eidolon dog, and his Eidolon house that he paid for with his Eidolon money.

Then where are the Eidolons coming up into the plains from? Walmart?

I don’t get it. His 4 exists the way it does because his specter had it, but then it’s impossible for himself to have it? He has the f***ing ability. Go into the game, equip Revenant. Go into a mission and press the 4 key. Boom Eidolon power.

I believe many of us want Revenant to be the product of us just being in a very bad dream. Because that means we can wake up and maybe real life Revenant will actually be properly Eidolon themed like he should be.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Same difference. Its still injecting an outside substance into someone.

Odd, you saying I’m rambling like a madman when your 3rd to last comment I could barely make out what you were trying to even get across.
 

Revenants first 3 abilities still heavily lean on the side of vampire far more than they do Eidolon. I don’t know how you can mistake what I said as “Eidolon frame shouldn’t have eidolon powers” since that’s what I’ve been arguing against this entire time. So I’ll just take this as you lying to try and confuse me.

Revenant does have Eidolon specific abilities tho. His 4 is an array of lasers, and Eidolons fire lasers. His passive is also a very very s*** version of the big pulse they let out every time you destroy a synovia.

You have mentioned undead several times to justify Revenants vampire theme. Claiming that you haven’t doesn't do anything for you. 

I don’t know how you can acknowledge different undead but then still see Revenant and point to him and say “That should be a vampire”. Revenants are not immediately vampires. 

Eidolons have nothing in common with ancient vampires. So havIng a frame modeled after the Eidolons having vampire powers doesn’t make sense. He should have Eidolon powers to reflect his Eidolon appearance and his Eidolon backstory, and his Eidolon wife, and his Eidolon children, and his Eidolon dog, and his Eidolon house that he paid for with his Eidolon money.

Then where are the Eidolons coming up into the plains from? Walmart?

I don’t get it. His 4 exists the way it does because his specter had it, but then it’s impossible for himself to have it? He has the f***ing ability. Go into the game, equip Revenant. Go into a mission and press the 4 key. Boom Eidolon power.

I believe many of us want Revenant to be the product of us just being in a very bad dream. Because that means we can wake up and maybe real life Revenant will actually be properly Eidolon themed like he should be.

Glad you arent a doctor or someone working with infusion. Because the two are nothing alike and they serve two very seperate purposes and arent even used in the same fields.

How are lasers eidolon specific? That is as stupid as your claim that people are saying all undead are vampires. I guess all corpus laser guns are now eidolon infused aswell. And how is a knockdown based on shields running out similar to the eidolons magnetic nuke?

No I really havent mentioned undead in connection to vampires. You just have an extremely hard time with reading it seems. You've mentioned undead several times. I've mentioned undead in connection to eidolons, which you also managed to not understand and claimed I said eidolons were vampires. It would be an easier time to have a written convo with a wall at this point, atleast the words would stick to it in the right order.

Right, revenants arent immediately vampires, but vampires are immediately revenants. So the skills fit the OG lore. Just as you yourself said a few posts up. Your gripe there was just that it could be traced to one specific point in that lore, but it didnt include the more modern things you see in vampire. But you admited it was still vampire lore.

Again you bring up vampires as some connection with eidolons. Where do you even find that in anything of what has been said? 

The eidolons come from the place where the Unum had them stuffed away, from the place Rev threw himself into to keep it so. It would be an Unum dimension, not an eidolon dimension. If the sentients and eidolons possessed some non-described/non-connected magic that could open portals to an "eidolon dimension", why did they go through the void to reach Sol in the first place? And why arent there eidolons of dead sentients on other planets? Because there is no eidolon dimension, because there was no Unum on the other planets, so there was no Unum bomb on those planets either. The things involved in the death of the earth sentient is the reason why eidolons exsist on earth, it isnt some magical sentient power nor something that happens naturally when a sentient dies, it is something else a product of the specific circumstances on earth.

No. no. I'm saying it looks the way it does because the specter had it and certain parts of the possessed specter is remnant in the rebuilt built frame, since for some reason we use a specter in some way as the "core" BP while gathering the pieces from long lost relics that the grineer have dug up. Have you even bothered to actually read the story?

But hey, you didnt even know the basic lore of the plains to begin with, so why should I expect you bother to actually look up the lore about the rest of it?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

50 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Glad you arent a doctor or someone working with infusion. Because the two are nothing alike and they serve two very seperate purposes and arent even used in the same fields.

How are lasers eidolon specific? That is as stupid as your claim that people are saying all undead are vampires. I guess all corpus laser guns are now eidolon infused aswell. And how is a knockdown based on shields running out similar to the eidolons magnetic nuke?

No I really havent mentioned undead in connection to vampires. You just have an extremely hard time with reading it seems. You've mentioned undead several times. I've mentioned undead in connection to eidolons, which you also managed to not understand and claimed I said eidolons were vampires. It would be an easier time to have a written convo with a wall at this point, atleast the words would stick to it in the right order.

Right, revenants arent immediately vampires, but vampires are immediately revenants. So the skills fit the OG lore. Just as you yourself said a few posts up. Your gripe there was just that it could be traced to one specific point in that lore, but it didnt include the more modern things you see in vampire. But you admited it was still vampire lore.

Again you bring up vampires as some connection with eidolons. Where do you even find that in anything of what has been said? 

The eidolons come from the place where the Unum had them stuffed away, from the place Rev threw himself into to keep it so. It would be an Unum dimension, not an eidolon dimension. If the sentients and eidolons possessed some non-described/non-connected magic that could open portals to an "eidolon dimension", why did they go through the void to reach Sol in the first place? And why arent there eidolons of dead sentients on other planets? Because there is no eidolon dimension, because there was no Unum on the other planets, so there was no Unum bomb on those planets either. The things involved in the death of the earth sentient is the reason why eidolons exsist on earth, it isnt some magical sentient power nor something that happens naturally when a sentient dies, it is something else a product of the specific circumstances on earth.

No. no. I'm saying it looks the way it does because the specter had it and certain parts of the possessed specter is remnant in the rebuilt built frame, since for some reason we use a specter in some way as the "core" BP while gathering the pieces from long lost relics that the grineer have dug up. Have you even bothered to actually read the story?

But hey, you didnt even know the basic lore of the plains to begin with, so why should I expect you bother to actually look up the lore about the rest of it?

Corruption has relation to infusion.

Eidolons shoot lasers. It’s their whole deal. You know what doesn’t shoot lasers. Vampires.

And you’re still continuing this lying trend of yours.

Not all Revenants are vampires. You’re still drawing the conclusion that just because he’s called Revenant he HAS to be a vampire and nothing else. You know, despite his entire backstory consisting solely of references to things that have nothing in common with vampires.

 It’s still a dimension where the Eidolons reside and thus would be filled with Eidolon energy. We can literally see it seeping into the plains.

I didn’t need Garas backstory to know Revenants backstory doesn’t make sense. But after reading her backstory, Revenants vampire theme makes even less sense. So keeping me in the dark on that would’ve been more beneficial to you. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Corruption has relation to infusion.

Eidolons shoot lasers. It’s their whole deal. You know what doesn’t shoot lasers. Vampires.

And you’re still continuing this lying trend of yours.

Not all Revenants are vampires. You’re still drawing the conclusion that just because he’s called Revenant he HAS to be a vampire and nothing else. You know, despite his entire backstory consisting solely of references to things that have nothing in common with vampires.

 It’s still a dimension where the Eidolons reside and thus would be filled with Eidolon energy. We can literally see it seeping into the plains.

I didn’t need Garas backstory to know Revenants backstory doesn’t make sense. But after reading her backstory, Revenants vampire theme makes even less sense. So keeping me in the dark on that would’ve been more beneficial to you. 

No, it really doesnt, not more than corruption has a relation to anything else. If something is corrupted through infusion it is no longer infused, since it would be a failed infusion, so back to step one and try again. For Rev he wouldnt be described as infused in such a case, he would be described as corrupted, which he isnt. He's also said to be both wreathed and harnessing when it comes to eidolon energy. So thats 3 strikes out of 3 that has no reference to corruption, but instead the opposite.

Indeed, but it isnt exclusive to eidolons. And we get back to the whole part where a design of a frame doesnt need to be reflected in each skill in order to follow a theme.

Nope I dont because I never did.

No, that isnt at all what I'm saying. I'm saying all vampries are revenants. There are also as many vampire types across the globe as there are cultures. And you rely on the backstory of one specific Revenant frame in time, a frame that would have zero connection to its original nor the prime or any other tenno-made Rev that hasnt been to earth. You also make up some corruption theory that is stated nowhere by making up meanings of actual words. Since the skills actually follow his name, the only conclussion is that it was the intent of the Orokin for it to be that way, like with all other frames. What is so hard to understand with that when it applies to every frame in the game? Oh wait, next you're gonna tell me Nidus is actually the infestation and not the specific helminth strain?

It's some form of magnetic energy, either something from the bomb or the dead sentient that pollutes the plains. And you should also note that Revenant is immune to that. So how exactly would that "mysterious" magnetic energy corrupt him when he is immune to it due to being infused with it and harnessing it? I mean, you start coming up with things that arent even part of the sentients, somehow you mish-mash some pseudo fantasy sentinfestatiolon things into the story. Turning magnetic fallout into some sorcery. The only spacemagic in the game is the void, which is lethal for the sentients, so it is deffinently not that power that has brought them back to life.

I dont really see how Gara's backstory has anything to do with the origin of Rev. He showed up afterwards. He wasnt built on earth, he was sent to earth with a tenno at his sticks.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

No, it really doesnt, not more than corruption has a relation to anything else. If something is corrupted through infusion it is no longer infused, since it would be a failed infusion, so back to step one and try again. For Rev he wouldnt be described as infused in such a case, he would be described as corrupted, which he isnt. He's also said to be both wreathed and harnessing when it comes to eidolon energy. So thats 3 strikes out of 3 that has no reference to corruption, but instead the opposite.

Indeed, but it isnt exclusive to eidolons. And we get back to the whole part where a design of a frame doesnt need to be reflected in each skill in order to follow a theme.

Nope I dont because I never did.

No, that isnt at all what I'm saying. I'm saying all vampries are revenants. There are also as many vampire types across the globe as there are cultures. And you rely on the backstory of one specific Revenant frame in time, a frame that would have zero connection to its original nor the prime or any other tenno-made Rev that hasnt been to earth. You also make up some corruption theory that is stated nowhere by making up meanings of actual words. Since the skills actually follow his name, the only conclussion is that it was the intent of the Orokin for it to be that way, like with all other frames. What is so hard to understand with that when it applies to every frame in the game? Oh wait, next you're gonna tell me Nidus is actually the infestation and not the specific helminth strain?

It's some form of magnetic energy, either something from the bomb or the dead sentient that pollutes the plains. And you should also note that Revenant is immune to that. So how exactly would that "mysterious" magnetic energy corrupt him when he is immune to it due to being infused with it and harnessing it? I mean, you start coming up with things that arent even part of the sentients, somehow you mish-mash some pseudo fantasy sentinfestatiolon things into the story. Turning magnetic fallout into some sorcery. The only spacemagic in the game is the void, which is lethal for the sentients, so it is deffinently not that power that has brought them back to life.

I dont really see how Gara's backstory has anything to do with the origin of Rev. He showed up afterwards. He wasnt built on earth, he was sent to earth with a tenno at his sticks.

IDK why I’m still arguing this with you. Regardless of the terminology, Revenant was changed by being constantly bombarded by Eidolon energy through thousands of years, and became an Eidolon frame in the process. It shouldn’t matter whether I say corrupted or infused. The idea is literally the same.

Do you know of anything else in Revenants backstory that shoots lasers? No? Checkmate.

That was a double negative. You just admitted to doing it.

Not all revenants are vampires. Just because he’s called Revenants doesn’t suddenly make him a vampire.

He’s immune to it because the same type of energy flows through him.

Because you and Reidy were giving me crap about not knowing her lore. And all her lore adds to this argument is a giant tentacle monster with a lot of eyes. Which again, is not a vampire.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

IDK why I’m still arguing this with you. Regardless of the terminology, Revenant was changed by being constantly bombarded by Eidolon energy through thousands of years, and became an Eidolon frame in the process. It shouldn’t matter whether I say corrupted or infused. The idea is literally the same.

Do you know of anything else in Revenants backstory that shoots lasers? No? Checkmate.

That was a double negative. You just admitted to doing it.

Not all revenants are vampires. Just because he’s called Revenants doesn’t suddenly make him a vampire.

He’s immune to it because the same type of energy flows through him.

Because you and Reidy were giving me crap about not knowing her lore. And all her lore adds to this argument is a giant tentacle monster with a lot of eyes. Which again, is not a vampire.

But it really isnt. And there is no lore at all that says he was actually changed. Just that he harnesses the energy. They just dont have any special energy that does what you imply it does, it is simply not part of the game. I get that you want an eidolon frame, but it just wouldnt work because none of the attributes the eidolons possess can change things as if it was magic or the infestation. Their energy isnt even their own, hence why eidolons are specific to just earth. The bomb caused some mutation which made pieces of the sentient rise again. Rev has just used that same energy to power himself, probably through "reaving" the eidolons.

Yes, other frames as part of their orokin made arsenal.

No it wasnt, I said I wasnt lying because I never have.

No it doesnt, but vampires share traits with other revenants, like mindcontrol, mesmerization, going foggy aswell as draining life essense. So when DE said Vampire themed they had alot of wiggleroom in picking skills fitting for what they said while also naming him Revenant. There isnt only one type of vampire.

That is what I said yes. Or you still havent learned the words infused and harness?

No one said the sentient was a vampire, why do you keep going on as if someone said that? I've said that Rev's vampiric design comes from the Orokin and that his powers havent been changed by your mysterious magnetic super eidolon god energy. He simply has his orokin given powers while also being infused by the energy effecting the plains. Even his 4th skill implies he was sent to earth specifically to combat the threat, since it is a power that adapts to the defenses of the enemy. And what are sentients most known for!? Ta-da you guessed it! Adaptive defenses! So what better way to combat them than a frame that can adapt their offense to the defense of their enemies?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But it really isnt. And there is no lore at all that says he was actually changed. Just that he harnesses the energy. They just dont have any special energy that does what you imply it does, it is simply not part of the game. I get that you want an eidolon frame, but it just wouldnt work because none of the attributes the eidolons possess can change things as if it was magic or the infestation. Their energy isnt even their own, hence why eidolons are specific to just earth. The bomb caused some mutation which made pieces of the sentient rise again. Rev has just used that same energy to power himself, probably through "reaving" the eidolons.

Yes, other frames as part of their orokin made arsenal.

No it wasnt, I said I wasnt lying because I never have.

No it doesnt, but vampires share traits with other revenants, like mindcontrol, mesmerization, going foggy aswell as draining life essense. So when DE said Vampire themed they had alot of wiggleroom in picking skills fitting for what they said while also naming him Revenant. There isnt only one type of vampire.

That is what I said yes. Or you still havent learned the words infused and harness?

No one said the sentient was a vampire, why do you keep going on as if someone said that? I've said that Rev's vampiric design comes from the Orokin and that his powers havent been changed by your mysterious magnetic super eidolon god energy. He simply has his orokin given powers while also being infused by the energy effecting the plains. Even his 4th skill implies he was sent to earth specifically to combat the threat, since it is a power that adapts to the defenses of the enemy. And what are sentients most known for!? Ta-da you guessed it! Adaptive defenses! So what better way to combat them than a frame that can adapt their offense to the defense of their enemies?

I will pull up the lore quotes that prove you wrong again MFer.

There is no other Warframe mentioned in Revenants backstory aside from Gara. And she creates glass, not shoots lasers.

You’re still lying.

Revenant is a term for an undead being. They don’t intrinsically have Mind Control powers. They have to be a specific kind of undead being to have that. And Revenants backstory provides nothing that eludes to him being one of those things.

So you agree that Revenant has Eidolon energy in him. So it only makes sense that he would have Eidolon powers. Because he would logically be the Eidolon frame if he has Eidolon energy inside him and Eidolon powers. He wouldn’t be an Eidolon frame if he didn’t have Eidolon powers. But he have vampire powers out of bumf*** nowhere and yet is still supposed to be an Eidolon frame.

You said Eidolons were vampires. And there is evidence that Warframes can be permanently altered from their original design, so it’s only logical that a frame infused with Eidolon energy would also have Eidolon like abilities. Not vampire abilities. And there is also zero evidence of what Revenants original design was, because it doesn’t matter because he was turned into an Eidolon frame because he was infused with the powers of an Eidolon.

His 4th skill is literally useless against Eidolons. So you can’t say that it was part of his kit before being infused because he used it to fight the Eidolons. And again. Danse Macabre was literally added to Revenants design because Steve said he needed to be more Eidolonly. Also your argument falls apart even more because Eidolons don’t have the damage adaptation.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I will pull up the lore quotes that prove you wrong again MFer.

There is no other Warframe mentioned in Revenants backstory aside from Gara. And she creates glass, not shoots lasers.

You’re still lying.

Revenant is a term for an undead being. They don’t intrinsically have Mind Control powers. They have to be a specific kind of undead being to have that. And Revenants backstory provides nothing that eludes to him being one of those things.

So you agree that Revenant has Eidolon energy in him. So it only makes sense that he would have Eidolon powers. Because he would logically be the Eidolon frame if he has Eidolon energy inside him and Eidolon powers. He wouldn’t be an Eidolon frame if he didn’t have Eidolon powers. But he have vampire powers out of bumf*** nowhere and yet is still supposed to be an Eidolon frame.

You said Eidolons were vampires. And there is evidence that Warframes can be permanently altered from their original design, so it’s only logical that a frame infused with Eidolon energy would also have Eidolon like abilities. Not vampire abilities. And there is also zero evidence of what Revenants original design was, because it doesn’t matter because he was turned into an Eidolon frame because he was infused with the powers of an Eidolon.

His 4th skill is literally useless against Eidolons. So you can’t say that it was part of his kit before being infused because he used it to fight the Eidolons. And again. Danse Macabre was literally added to Revenants design because Steve said he needed to be more Eidolonly. Also your argument falls apart even more because Eidolons don’t have the damage adaptation.

Revenant is a term for a very specific type of undead being. Most of them can mind control or straight up possess their victim. And we only need to look at the first devstream he was introduced in where he went by the codename Vlad. Where his powers were first showcased with a far higher focus on MC. He still looked like the half ghost he is now and people were spitballing names for him such as Ghast, Draugr, Poltergeist and so on. And DE implied it would have a vampiric theme.

And no I dont think there is any sense to him having eidolon powers because there are zero lore connections as to why some magnetic element would suddenly start to corrupt ot change a frame. There are also several indications in the lore that the energy isnt from the eidolons or the sentient. We arent talking superheroes here where exposure to some energy may grant you powers, we are talking about two different manmade machines. And I must ask you, what exactly are eidolon powers, what specifically sets them apart from sentients? What did their mystical energy grant them aside from mechanical unlife? What powers could be transfered to a frame? Revenant is an eidolon frame because he came back the same way as they did, empowered by the same energy that made them come back.

No I didnt say eidolons were vamps. If I did, do quote that specific section. I said eidolons where like zombies. There is also no evidence frames can be altered. I bet you will refer to Valkyr again, which was just the mentality of that specific Valkyr. And we know the OG design of Rev because he apparently doesnt have eidolon powers.

So? That doesnt mean he wasnt sent there with anti-sentient abilities to fight remnants of a dead sentient. Eidolons werent a thing when he was built far earlier so no one would know exactly what they could do. So his 4th skill still makes sense as an anti-sentient ability to counter their adaptation to damage, so would be an obvious choice to send to such a place as earth to clean up the mess. And the eidolons alone are a mess of mechanics that shouldnt be take fully as lore accurate. Remember how frame abilities are powered by the void, something the sentients cant handle. Yet our powers cant effect their shield, nor their health for the most part. And amps can only effect the shield, yet we have things like Dex Pixia and Artemis Bow that can still target their non shielded husk. Plot holes galore.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Revenant is a term for a very specific type of undead being. Most of them can mind control or straight up possess their victim. And we only need to look at the first devstream he was introduced in where he went by the codename Vlad. Where his powers were first showcased with a far higher focus on MC. He still looked like the half ghost he is now and people were spitballing names for him such as Ghast, Draugr, Poltergeist and so on. And DE implied it would have a vampiric theme.

And no I dont think there is any sense to him having eidolon powers because there are zero lore connections as to why some magnetic element would suddenly start to corrupt ot change a frame. There are also several indications in the lore that the energy isnt from the eidolons or the sentient. We arent talking superheroes here where exposure to some energy may grant you powers, we are talking about two different manmade machines. And I must ask you, what exactly are eidolon powers, what specifically sets them apart from sentients? What did their mystical energy grant them aside from mechanical unlife? What powers could be transfered to a frame? Revenant is an eidolon frame because he came back the same way as they did, empowered by the same energy that made them come back.

No I didnt say eidolons were vamps. If I did, do quote that specific section. I said eidolons where like zombies. There is also no evidence frames can be altered. I bet you will refer to Valkyr again, which was just the mentality of that specific Valkyr. And we know the OG design of Rev because he apparently doesnt have eidolon powers.

So? That doesnt mean he wasnt sent there with anti-sentient abilities to fight remnants of a dead sentient. Eidolons werent a thing when he was built far earlier so no one would know exactly what they could do. So his 4th skill still makes sense as an anti-sentient ability to counter their adaptation to damage, so would be an obvious choice to send to such a place as earth to clean up the mess. And the eidolons alone are a mess of mechanics that shouldnt be take fully as lore accurate. Remember how frame abilities are powered by the void, something the sentients cant handle. Yet our powers cant effect their shield, nor their health for the most part. And amps can only effect the shield, yet we have things like Dex Pixia and Artemis Bow that can still target their non shielded husk. Plot holes galore.

Definition of Revenant: a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

there is no mention of Mind Control in that definition, so I have no idea where you’re getting that they have Mind Control powers. Like the terms literally used on basic zombie enemies in fantasy games.

Again, Harnessing the essence of Eidolon and warrior alike. That is a direct line from the Lotus herself telling the player that Revenant is part Eidolon. Not vampire, Eidolon. So he should have Eidolon abilities.

You said Eidolons were like zombies, and then zombies are undead, and vampires are also undead, so therefore Eidolons are vampires. Which is really dumb logic so I can’t blame you for trying to disassociate yourself with it, but you said it so I think it would be better for you to come clean instead of lying.

Danse Macabre is literally called an Eruption of EIDOLON ENERGY BEAMS in its in game description. It can’t get anymore obvious than that that the ability is Eidolon themed.

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

Is this another Gears is always right threads?

[buffalobuffalogaming]

Many people will try to make sense from lores, fictions, fantasies...
...
I can't 😄

 

[JackHargreav]

I wonder when will this end....

[TheGodofWiFi]

Honestly, I'm looking forward to seeing how DE explain Revenant Prime.

It seems to be the same with the Valkyr situation in which they've written lore into the game about these two frames that logically means they cannot have Primes, or at the very least their Primes would be completely different frames from them.

But they'll probably just slap a short blurb of text like "Command the nightclub with Revenant Prime" then call it a day.

Edited February 11, 2020 by TheGodofWiFi

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Don't really see the problem. Eidolons existed in the orokin era, and revenant's lore is that a frame fell to the eidolon and became revenant. Only "retcon" here would be that the base frame was a prime, meaning the knockoff non-prime revenant frames were made as copies from original corrupted prime model, just like all other frames are cheap dollar store knockoffs of their orokin prototypes ever since orokin tech became impossible to make, only salvage.

TBH, the only one that really doesn't make much sense is valkyr, as it was supposed to be the alad v torture that changed the frame into it's current form and anger abilities. The prime should have been more zen with slightly different abilities. But then again, there's much we still don't understand about Warframe sentience and the biological thing inside, so for all we know, our valkyr primes might be the same infested mass of flesh that was experimented on, but placed into an pristine orokin shell. That's my own internal theory whenever I get a prime....

Edited February 11, 2020 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

Is this another Gears is always right threads?

Isn’t every thread a Gears is always right thread?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Honestly, I'm looking forward to seeing how DE explain Revenant Prime.

It seems to be the same with the Valkyr situation in which they've written lore into the game about these two frames that logically means they cannot have Primes, or at the very least their Primes would be completely different frames from them.

But they'll probably just slap a short blurb of text like "Command the nightclub with Revenant Prime" then call it a day.

They could make the prime even more Eidolon-y. As it is the original version that was turned, it would logically have a more complete Eidolon look.

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Definition of Revenant: a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

there is no mention of Mind Control in that definition, so I have no idea where you’re getting that they have Mind Control powers. Like the terms literally used on basic zombie enemies in fantasy games.

Again, Harnessing the essence of Eidolon and warrior alike. That is a direct line from the Lotus herself telling the player that Revenant is part Eidolon. Not vampire, Eidolon. So he should have Eidolon abilities.

You said Eidolons were like zombies, and then zombies are undead, and vampires are also undead, so therefore Eidolons are vampires. Which is really dumb logic so I can’t blame you for trying to disassociate yourself with it, but you said it so I think it would be better for you to come clean instead of lying.

Danse Macabre is literally called an Eruption of EIDOLON ENERGY BEAMS in its in game description. It can’t get anymore obvious than that that the ability is Eidolon themed.

You should probably read a bit more real life lore, from you know, books. I know it is a shocker that people still use those things. It is a collection of creatures, not everyone of them shares every trait with the next. Several of them do however share mindcontrol/possession aswell as the need to feed to sustain themselves or quell a hunger.

The harnessing part really only tells us that he harnesses the essence, which would be some energy. In short he makes use of the energy to power himself. He had a design prior to earth and no, he wasnt an eidolon themed frame in his origin, since eidolons didnt exsist then and the orokin would not experiment with the greatest mistake a second time over. The whole text also implies he still has his warrior side.

No that is you not understanding what is being said and putting words into other peoples comments. That is 100% on you for not understanding.

Yeah cos he makes use of the harnessed eidolon energy.

Quote

They could make the prime even more Eidolon-y. As it is the original version that was turned, it would logically have a more complete Eidolon look.

You have zero grasp on timeline continuity. I mean, really!? How little of the WF lore do you even know? Now all of a sudden it is the original that was turned? The frame that never even exsisted in the same time as the eidolons, nor even at the same place. No wonder you have the oddest ideas when you have zero grasp on the lore and how the different eras connect.

Edited February 11, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[mikakor]

This heated debate is extremely interesting to read...

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You should probably read a bit more real life lore, from you know, books. I know it is a shocker that people still use those things. It is a collection of creatures, not everyone of them shares every trait with the next. Several of them do however share mindcontrol/possession aswell as the need to feed to sustain themselves or quell a hunger.

The harnessing part really only tells us that he harnesses the essence, which would be some energy. In short he makes use of the energy to power himself. He had a design prior to earth and no, he wasnt an eidolon themed frame in his origin, since eidolons didnt exsist then and the orokin would not experiment with the greatest mistake a second time over. The whole text also implies he still has his warrior side.

No that is you not understanding what is being said and putting words into other peoples comments. That is 100% on you for not understanding.

Yeah cos he makes use of the harnessed eidolon energy.

You have zero grasp on timeline continuity. I mean, really!? How little of the WF lore do you even know? Now all of a sudden it is the original that was turned? The frame that never even exsisted in the same time as the eidolons, nor even at the same place. No wonder you have the oddest ideas when you have zero grasp on the lore and how the different eras connect.

And here I was hoping you’d either given up or realized you were wrong (tho if you didn’t realize that 5 days ago there’s no chance of you realizing that now).

If the literal definition of the thing you’re claiming has Mind Control is telling you that you’re wrong, and you can’t come to terms with that. You have problems.

He also gains Eidolon abilities, hence his 4th ability being described as Eidolon Energy beams.

You’re still trying to justify an Eidolon frame being a vampire. Despite the fact that you have shown zero in game evidence to prove that claim. While I have taken direct and indirect quotes that debunk your claims that Revenant couldn’t even be the slightest bit Eidolon themed. Not to mention you’ve claimed his 4th ability was on him before he ever got infused with their powers which makes no sense because you also said he was a vampire before that, and vampires don’t shoot lasers.

We have Revenant. The cheap mass produced model version of the prime. The prime version is the original Revenant that was the “Warden” and then was dragged into the Eidolons little pocket dimension thing where then he was infused with their powers. So DE can very logically make Revenant Prime Eidolon themed.

Edited February 11, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Both sides have "legs" to stand on.

My personal impression of the story and my understanding of Orokin history lend me to believe the Warden warframe was designed around a Tenno who's power lent itself to sealing away Sentient energy. A very handy ability in a war against Sentients.

This Warden took over guardianship of the Plains of Eidolon after Gara blew herself up. The Warden had to deal with sealing away the sentient energy (Sentients seem to have a physical form and a core form of energy.) The Sentient that blew up and was essentially braindead, continued like a machine to attempt to self-repair itself. The roaming Eidolons kept trying to fix the damage that was done by the bomb.

It is presented in the quest to obtain Revenant, that the Warden was mesmerized by the energy tendrils of the Eidolons which were attempting to reconnect the various blown up bits of the full Sentient. This "Mesmerizing" effect may be a Sentient failsafe to protect it in a downed state, causing those who would try to "finish it off" to be stunned and become thralls to protect it. We don't really know much about the living sentient who Gara killed to say for sure. The Warden seems to have resisted the effect for a long period of time, but eventually succumbed to the Eidolon mesmerizing power.

The Revenant's abilities match the "undead" Eidolon of the story along with vombalist dashing and battalyst/eidolon disco ball lasers. They don't match all sentients. They mimic the powers of certain Vampires, roughly. I don't think the Warden was designed with Eidolon powers like SneakyErvin keeps suggesting. I DO think the Warden was "blighted" or "cursed" by the Eidolon's energy, in other words, corrupted, and then was used by the Eidolons as their "anchor" to this world which the Eidolons are now using to rise again each night, since the Grineer started poking around.

I look forward to see how the Warden is primed and the lore surrounding it, because the Revenant only came into existence after its fall to the Eidolon.

Edit: Appearance-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if the Warden had a Vampire Hunter appearance, hat, whip, cloak, crossbow, whathaveyou from popular media surrounding vampire hunting.

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by (PS4)AyinDygra

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

It is presented in the quest to obtain Revenant, that the Warden was mesmerized by the energy tendrils of the Eidolons which were attempting to reconnect the various blown up bits of the full Sentient. This "Mesmerizing" effect may be a Sentient failsafe to protect it in a downed state, causing those who would try to "finish it off" to be stunned and become thralls to protect it. We don't really know much about the living sentient who Gara killed to say for sure. The Warden seems to have resisted the effect for a long period of time, but eventually succumbed to the Eidolon mesmerizing power.

The Revenant's abilities match the "undead" Eidolon of the story along with vombalist dashing and battalyst/eidolon disco ball lasers. They don't match all sentients. They mimic the powers of certain Vampires, roughly. I don't think the Warden was designed with Eidolon powers like SneakyErvin keeps suggesting. I DO think the Warden was "blighted" or "cursed" by the Eidolon's energy, in other words, corrupted, and then was used by the Eidolons as their "anchor" to this world which the Eidolons are now using to rise again each night, since the Grineer started poking around.

I look forward to see how the Warden is primed and the lore surrounding it, because the Revenant only came into existence after its fall to the Eidolon.

Edit: Appearance-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if the Warden had a Vampire Hunter appearance, hat, whip, cloak, crossbow, whathaveyou from popular media surrounding vampire hunting.

 

The countless Battalysts I have killed have never once tried to mesmerize my Warframe. And I have yet to hear one report of a player witness their frame get mesmerized by a Teralyst while doing a triceps.

Revenant was initial designed to be a vampire exclusively themed Warframe (because for some reason somebody let Rebecca lead his development unsupervised) and it wasn’t until Steve saw it and said “no, the Eidolon frame needs to actually be Eidolon themed”. The only reason his 1-3 have vampire qualities to them is because they were originally designed as such. And considering this topic is about whether or not these abilities should even be part of Revenant, you cannot use them as evidence to justify their own existence.

But good on you for actually recognizing that he was corrupted.

And, Revenant Prime could easily just be more Eidolon-y as he’s supposed to be the original frame that was corrupted by the Eidolon energy.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

We have Revenant. The cheap mass produced model version of the prime. The prime version is the original Revenant that was the “Warden” and then was dragged into the Eidolons little pocket dimension thing where then he was infused with their powers. So DE can very logically make Revenant Prime Eidolon themed.

I'll just answer to this because you are so clueless it actually hurts my head.

No the prime version is not the one that was the Warden, nor is it the original. Again I ask you, how little do you actually know about the lore? The original Rev was part of the frames where a major number of them turned on the Orokin, you know, the ones with an actual host inside that went bananas. The primes are the Orokin "perfection" of those frames, the ones used mostly in the old war. The whole thing with Revenant takes place long after that, at the very end of the war when the tenno had their own versions of the frames in order to seek out and kill the orokin "elite" wherever they were hiding, aswell as protecting the system. That is the Revenant frame that went to earth, just as it was the tenno-Gara that blew up the sentient.

Not to mention the whole deal with orokin relics, which would make it impossible for the Prime to be the Warden, since those are locked away pristine orokin blueprints. So even if for some odd reason it would be a remaining prime that ended up on earth, it would have zero effect on the blueprints locked inside orokin relics, which is the means we use to get access to everything that is prime.

2 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I don't think the Warden was designed with Eidolon powers like SneakyErvin keeps suggesting.

Thats good because that isnt what I'm suggesting at all. I'm saying he was designed with vampiric powers, that has been my standpoint from the first post. Which his 1-3 represents. He has absolutely zero to do with eidolons in his powersets. #*!% I'm even saying his #4 isnt eidolon based except for the look and possibly that it uses eidolon energy. Which is about as far as his eidolon theme goes aswell as being "reborn" through the same means as them.

I really have no clue how you managed to interpret what I said as that. Gears have been talking around and implied that, or more or less put words in my mouth in his posts. So if you've only read his posts I'll understand it since he grasps for straws wherever he can and twists what others have said to fit his "agenda". He just refuses to look at the overall lore of the game, so discard the whole orokin design around frames, aswell as timelines and pretty much everything else that has to do with the game.