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(PSN)Ashmane84

By (PSN)Ashmane84,
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Methanoid

Methanoid

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a "proper" trading post will never happen, DE rely on obscene plat prices that people set with their manual trading, as you will notice, every game that has a proper auction/sales system only encourages people to undercut each other for a quick sale, DE do not want people spending/buying lower amounts of plat, they want them nice and high, so the current archaic system is perfect and will remain simply because it is highly profitable due to buyers fearing missing out on that sweet sweet riven they want or prime parts they need.

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(PSN)AyinDygra

(PSN)AyinDygra

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The only reason the current trade system "works" at all, for a small subset of the playerbase, is because only a small subset of the playerbase uses it. It is not universally good for all players of the game. It does not make people "lazy" for not using the archaic trade system in existence in this game. Path of Exile's trade system is not something to be lauded and copied (they need to reset their economy every few months, and even then, their highly vaunted "economy" crashes in more like a few weeks - to say nothing about the core of their long-term playerbase in Standard who take great effort to acquire their things and slowly work toward builds and goals they set for themselves, only to be spit upon by people who like trading and flipping stuff for in-game currency, as if they're doing something wrong by not getting on the treadmill with them.)

The great fear of a marketplace that lets people sell stuff for buy-out prices while they're enjoying the actual game, or sleeping, or working, is the fear that suddenly, the entire playerbase will start trading. Suddenly, everyone who plays Warframe will value the drops they get beyond their personal needs because they have a way to trade it with other players for whom RNG has not been so kind. The truth is that all those who currently do NOT engage in 3rd party trade, or trade chat, or standing around in Maroo's Bazaar with their hand over their heads begging for someone to buy their stuff while they can't play the game, would suddenly have SOME plat value in their stuff, where before it had zero value. That's an incredibly large increase in value, even if it goes from 0plat value to 1 plat. (technically, infinite increase in value)... The only "so-called" problem here, is that overall, the prices of things will no doubt come down, making it harder for those who like the current version of laborious time-consuming, archaic trade, to make as much plat as they did before - a "crash" that they see no benefit in (but a great boon to those who can now trade.)

People against an "Auction House" want to keep the population of traders very small, so their price bubble doesn't pop. And make no mistake, it's an artificially inflated bubble that by all rights should be popped to bring people back to reality. An "Auction House" (more accurately, "Marketplace") would benefit many more people than it would inconvenience, even if prices plummet to values inconceivable by the current traders, making the game even more friendly to F2P - even if it takes more sales to get what they're after... now they can actually sell stuff! Their drops would have greater-than-zero plat value now.

I see the entire playerbase engaging in trade even at low plat values to be much healthier than a small subset of players trading at inflated values.

 

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
play/plat typo
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(PSN)guzmantt1977

(PSN)guzmantt1977

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23 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I see the entire playerbase engaging in trade even at low plat values to be much healthier than a small subset of players trading at inflated values.

Say it with me, "WTS prime junk 6 pieces for 6 plat". 

Thus your wish has been granted, and the items are at the value you proposed to be infinitely better:

23 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

That's an incredibly large increase in value, even if it goes from 0plat value to 1 plat. (technically, infinite increase in value)...

 

Best of all by trading as randomised junk you're not going to automatically debase the value of all the prime parts that the buyers are actively searching for (thus demand increases value and people will be willing to pay substantially more because they want the specific item). 

 

Simple. No fuss. No muss. Easy. 

You are welcome. 

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(PSN)AyinDygra

(PSN)AyinDygra

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Mucking around in trade chat is something I've only resorted to twice, for a friend, to get him the Requiem mods he needed to kill off his Liches (a system I have not and will not engage with if I can help it, in its current, albeit better, state than when it launched) And even then, the person who answered my WTB request was met with a mod that wasn't even at full charges. A marketplace wouldn't have had that problem (I could have ignored the used mod). It is not a pleasant experience... it's a clunky IRC client (and I used plenty of IRC back in the day.)

I've played text based games with better trade than this (and was an administrator on - both an LPmud and a DIKU mud. Perhaps you know of MUDs - the text based precursors to current online games - which had features they're still trying to catch up to.) I've played MMOs with better trade than this (FFXI, among others)...

The very fact that you have to sit around doing nothing while watching chat, and hoping for replies, rather than playing (because if it takes too much time to get to your dojo, they could have found another buyer in the meantime, and you rushed out of your mission for nothing.) This even plagues warframe.market... you actually have to be present and ready to trade at the drop of a hat, rather than enjoying the game. I've lost several trades because I was playing the game, instead of babysitting my listings.

A marketplace where you can list items for sale at a buy-out price, while you go about your life, is a massive quality of life bonus that no amount of argument from trading bubble-ites can stand up to. It's night and day. It's the difference between playing the game, and playing the market. I'm here to play the game. (it's far from simple, no fuss, no muss, easy... I don't have the words to describe how far from my experience that is.)

 

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
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(PSN)Ashmane84

(PSN)Ashmane84

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Man reading comprehension is not you guy's strong suit. I at no point said Fallout 76 was an overall better game than Warframe. If you'll actually read my posts you'd see all I've done is badmouth it. In my opening post I refereed to it as both a "dumpster fire" and a "train wreak." I went on to mention bugs that have been confirmed unaddressed since beta, and compared it's server architecture to "two rusty tin cans tied together with old shoestring." In terms of overall quality there is no question that Warframe is easily a million times its superior.

...HOWEVER...

When you look at narrowly defined individual features in a vacuum, independent of the game itself on a case by cases bases you see that there is in fact a short list of very specific things Fallout 76 does better than Warframe. And no amount of intentional misunderstanding, fanboy indignation, or online bullying will alter the simple fact that Fallout 76: Has thing while Warframe: does not have thing. And thus in that very specific, yet not insignificant, context Fallout 76 is objectively superior to Warframe. And none of your excuses as to why the game doesn't or cannot have this feature will change that. And yes; it is nothing but excuses.

"You can't have a trading post because it's peer-to-peer!" Fallout 76
"You can't do it because we trade premium currency!" Guild Wars 2
"You can't do it because its a f2p game!" Literally every online game, f2p or not, ever made. Ever.

I don't care how much you want to defend them, Digital Extremes has no excuse. Zero. There is no reason why they can't do this, and a million ways they could. They just won't. And the game is and will suffer for it.
 

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MagPrime

MagPrime

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DE doesn't want an auction house is really the only reason needed.  

As to suffering, the game isn't suffering.  You can still play it without doing any trading, ever.  The ones suffering are players who expect fast and fulfilling trades and aren't getting that because of a very specific mechanic not being available. 

Does it suck, yeah.  Are there other options, yeah.  Can you make it work without an AH, also yeah.  You just have to be willing to jump through the hoops that literally thousands of other players have.

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(PSN)Ashmane84

(PSN)Ashmane84

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13 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

As to suffering, the game isn't suffering.

That is only true if you don't know how online games work. And to be fair, the vast majority of online game developers don't either. Neither does Digital Extremes, if that Noclip documentary is to be believed. You see simple quality of life features like this are make-or-break points for new players. People who hear good things, like a trailer, and come in fresh and don't have the time and monetary investment to fall into the sunk cost fallacy will see things like this, get frustrated, and then just walk away. I am on the verge of doing just that, again. (I installed Warframe over two years ago, played for a week, and then left until earlier this month when a friend started playing it.) And this lack of population growth will actually destroy the game long term.

You see contrary to popular gamer opinion "retention" is much less important than "growth" and just catering to the "hardcore" fans is only delaying the game's death, not stopping it. No matter how dedicated a fan is eventually they will stop playing. They will hit a lull, take a break, the new content update will pull them back but they won't go as deep as they used to. This will happen a few times, and one day they will be scrolling through their news feed, see the new update announced, and just keep scrolling. Eventually interest fades, life siphons off free time, and even the sunk cost fallacy looses its grip. The only way an online game can survive is off new players coming in to replace the old hats slowly leaving. Vets like to belittle noobs as if they are children, but that is exactly how you should think of them; children. Children are the future, and without a steady supply of new people no community will survive. So Digital Extremes focusing all their efforts on retaining existing players who already know everything, and don't care about the flaws, is only shooting themselves in the foot...very...very...slowly. 

In short, if this game doesn't readdress it's new player content, add some much needed quality of life, and fix a handful of extremely aggravating progression hiccups then it WILL die. And it already is doing so; its falling out of its top spot. The new update has been delayed. New players are already quitting (a third of my clan is already gone after less than a month). And of course, as always, regardless if anyone talks about it or even notices, every day another vet sees something on their news feed and just keeps scrolling.

Edited by (PS4)Ashmane84
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Fluff-E-Kitty

Fluff-E-Kitty

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https://warframe.market/

 

https://riven.market/

 

^ Id rather use these then an ingame one, considering an ingame one could be easily manipulated to hurt newer players. not saying people don't already take advantage of others, but iv meet more good people then bad while trading. sometimes you can even strike up deals. 

 

Edit- it also may violate a law or two to have a trading house with the monetary setup that DE has. it could also be used to mass launder illicit platinum. 

Edited by Fluff-E-Kitty
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MagPrime

MagPrime

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

That is only true if you don't know how online games work. And to be fair, the vast majority of online game developers don't either. Neither does Digital Extremes, if that Noclip documentary is to be believed. You see simple quality of life features like this are make-or-break points for new players. People who hear good things, like a trailer, and come in fresh and don't have the time and monetary investment to fall into the sunk cost fallacy will see things like this, get frustrated, and then just walk away. I am on the verge of doing just that, again. (I installed Warframe over two years ago, played for a week, and then left until earlier this month when a friend started playing it.) And this lack of population growth will actually destroy the game long term.

You see contrary to popular gamer opinion "retention" is much less important than "growth" and just catering to the "hardcore" fans is only delaying the game's death, not stopping it. No matter how dedicated a fan is eventually they will stop playing. They will hit a lull, take a break, the new content update will pull them back but they won't go as deep as they used to. This will happen a few times, and one day they will be scrolling through their news feed, see the new update announced, and just keep scrolling. Eventually interest fades, life siphons off free time, and even the sunk cost fallacy looses its grip. The only way an online game can survive is off new players coming in to replace the old hats slowly leaving. Vets like to belittle noobs as if they are children, but that is exactly how you should think of them; children. Children are the future, and without a steady supply of new people no community will survive. So Digital Extremes focusing all their efforts on retaining existing players who already know everything, and don't care about the flaws, is only shooting themselves in the foot...very...very...slowly. 

In short, if this game doesn't readdress it's new player content, add some much needed quality of life, and fix a handful of extremely aggravating progression hiccups then it WILL die. And it already is doing so; its falling out of its top spot. The new update has been delayed. New players are already quitting (a third of my clan is already gone after less than a month). And of course, as always, regardless if anyone talks about it or even notices, every day another vet sees something on their news feed and just keeps scrolling.

You aren't soap boxing anything new.  Literally years, this has been discussed and the game is still here, still has tens of thousands of active players and DE is still making millions of dollars. 

No, they aren't "doing it right" but they aren't doing it "wrong" enough to push them to make drastic changes.  No one needs to know how games work to see that.

In short, no auction is on the horizon.  

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(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA

(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA

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48 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

Man reading comprehension is not you guy's strong suit. I at no point said Fallout 76 was an overall better game than Warframe. If you'll actually read my posts you'd see all I've done is badmouth it. In my opening post I refereed to it as both a "dumpster fire" and a "train wreak." I went on to mention bugs that have been confirmed unaddressed since beta, and compared it's server architecture to "two rusty tin cans tied together with old shoestring." In terms of overall quality there is no question that Warframe is easily a million times its superior.

...HOWEVER...

When you look at narrowly defined individual features in a vacuum, independent of the game itself on a case by cases bases you see that there is in fact a short list of very specific things Fallout 76 does better than Warframe. And no amount of intentional misunderstanding, fanboy indignation, or online bullying will alter the simple fact that Fallout 76: Has thing while Warframe: does not have thing. And thus in that very specific, yet not insignificant, context Fallout 76 is objectively superior to Warframe. And none of your excuses as to why the game doesn't or cannot have this feature will change that. And yes; it is nothing but excuses.

"You can't have a trading post because it's peer-to-peer!" Fallout 76
"You can't do it because we trade premium currency!" Guild Wars 2
"You can't do it because its a f2p game!" Literally every online game, f2p or not, ever made. Ever.

I don't care how much you want to defend them, Digital Extremes has no excuse. Zero. There is no reason why they can't do this, and a million ways they could. They just won't. And the game is and will suffer for it.
 

If reading comprehension was YOUR strong suit you never would have made this indefensibly inane post. 

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(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA

(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA

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Just now, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

That looks painful, do you need to go sit on some ice?

Funny from the guy crying and screaming at the thought of having to actually expend effort to make plat, and then throwing a crybaby temper tantrum when people dont agree with his bad ideas that have been addressed in other identical threads hundreds of times.

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MagPrime

MagPrime

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Just now, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

OP should start a band called Rage Against The Vending Machine. 

 

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Trade chat isn't perfect but you can post items and go about doing a mission and as far as I know someone can inquire as to your items. If that's not the case then I'd like to know. 

 

I was enjoying food but then you tried to kill me.

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Eyn_Sof

Eyn_Sof

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

-snip-

And as i stated before, peer-to-peer has nothing to do with the fact that its impossible in warframe, the only limiting thing is the scale of the instance you are connected to.

Warframe is not an open world game (except maybe railjack) and because of that you dont have one large level instance where everyone is but millions of small instances. So while your suggestion of a trading post is ok, it wont be useful because you will only be able to use it while you are in the bazaar. So the question is what can you do in the bazaar outside of trading? Nothing the ayatan hunt launches a mission, which is a new instance, meaning your connection to bazaar is broken.

Also wasn't fallout 76 a hybrid? What with private servers and stuff like that.

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