I am not a vending machine.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

I haven't seen any valid feedback. Though maybe its just getting buried by the trolls.

There have been multiple people pointing out to you, how your idea of an auction house, would legitimately destroy the platinum economy, which on PS4, is already much more difficult to function in. I know, because I tried. I made 400 plat selling prime junk. In a week. Whilst at school, and getting a maximum, 12 hours a week. On the Oceania server. Which is dead compared to North America.

Instead of using Maroo's, open your chat tab using the L2 button in your orbiter, use R1 to navigate to your trade chat, and then, casually type in the following message: "WTS 6 prime junk, 6p" then go on a mission. You can play the game, and while you play, you might get a few messages saying "I'll buy. Inv." Finish your mission, invite them, and then trade. Plat made.

[vomder]

What if we had clan/alliance item want/have lists? It wouldn't be the same thing but might be something that could work.

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, vomder said:

What if we had clan/alliance item want/have lists? It wouldn't be the same thing but might be something that could work.

I would love some wish lists that we can add none market items to.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

The only people who would ARGUABLY benefit from an auction house are people that dont bother selling items for plat anyway and simply rely on their credit card. Bottoming out prices would benefit them just fine. But that doesnt sound like you.

The worst part of it is that I'm one of those people who pays for the plat. I am one of the people who will benefit from such a change, but I can't tell you how many times people have accused me of only being opposed to an Auction House because I'm "trying to profit from the current system". 

I oppose it because while it will benefit me in the short term, we'll ALL suffer in the long run, when the f2p Tenno end up having to abandon the game because they cannot get plat to buy the slots they need. I've also seen the horrors an auction house system can wreak on in game economies that were far better suited to it than our economy is. 

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

Yeah the trading sucks in this game. I don't want to stand around in chat or have to use a third-party website, sifting through false offers or waiting hours to have to undercut someone selling the same items by a few plat.  I have a PC and console account. PC is better for trading, but it's still all awful. Not the biggest problem facing Warframe right now of course. I'm a lore and lore related gameplay kind of player, and I gave up on this aspect of Warframe awhile ago. We get partially related crumbs at best. 

[Vox_Preliator]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

The difference being that what I'm advocating would benefit most, if not all, players in the long term. Not only with greater trade security, but also make the game more new-player friendly and thereby preserve the population during content dry spells. Conversely unless you're planing to give a bunch of people free platinum, what you're advocating benefits only yourself. "The needs of the many..." and all that. You making ten percent more platinum today doesn't matter if the game dries up and dies from lack of new players tomorrow.

Look, I've seen like half a dozen games whose economy has gone down the toilet due to having some form of auction house or automated player market.

What would happen would be that it would benefit a few players in the short term, and then very very quickly benefit just about nobody because prices would only be worthlessly low or impossibly high with the only reasonably-priced things being snatched up by bots in less time than it takes for them to render on anyone's screen.

Not to mention things like very basic economic concepts, there is an absolutely absurd abundance of supply compared to demand in Warframe for all but very significantly rare items.  Having trading take effort and direct interaction between players is a very intentional, and actually very beneficial to players because it ensures that earning sufficient plat through trading is feasible even with terrible luck with farming, as opposed to games like Trove where basically no matter what by the time you've farmed enough stuff the price of the thing you want has already doubled and what you're selling has halved, or worse.

[SenorClipClop]

Welcome to the free-to-play model. Anything affecting gameplay is easy to acquire in-game, provided you supply the time, or the money. If you're an adult with a job, you might have the money to skip the grind for an item you want. I myself am an adult with a job and, while I usually take the free route, will spend some money on this game to get some stuff on its day of release, or grab some shiny cosmetics. If you don't want to spend money on the game, well, that's fine too, but be prepared to "work" for the new toys.

How you spend your free time is up to you. But I'm sure that you, as an adult with a job, can understand that work done by people on their own time should be afforded the funds to keep them afloat, or at least task players with some time investment in a largely-free experience.

[SenorClipClop]

21 hours ago, ArkThanatos said:

other companies might drop the ball. but in the case of Anthem and Destiny Both the devs for them have gone back an fixed things, worked hard to finish an polish a product, DE doesn't do this.

HA!

Did you play this game even two or three years ago? Do you have any idea what you're saying?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The worst part of it is that I'm one of those people who pays for the plat. I am one of the people who will benefit from such a change, but I can't tell you how many times people have accused me of only being opposed to an Auction House because I'm "trying to profit from the current system". 

I oppose it because while it will benefit me in the short term, we'll ALL suffer in the long run, when the f2p Tenno end up having to abandon the game because they cannot get plat to buy the slots they need. I've also seen the horrors an auction house system can wreak on in game economies that were far better suited to it than our economy is. 

For what it's worth I pay a decent amount of money into this game. (Almost every prime access +accessories). I also make plat from trades. One of my favorite things about this game is that the monetization doesnt seem overly stingy, I dont feel like DE is constantly reaching for my wallet. But that perception would change pretty damn fast if earning plat through trades was no longer viable.

1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Look, I've seen like half a dozen games whose economy has gone down the toilet due to having some form of auction house or automated player market.

What would happen would be that it would benefit a few players in the short term, and then very very quickly benefit just about nobody because prices would only be worthlessly low or impossibly high with the only reasonably-priced things being snatched up by bots in less time than it takes for them to render on anyone's screen.

Not to mention things like very basic economic concepts, there is an absolutely absurd abundance of supply compared to demand in Warframe for all but very significantly rare items.  Having trading take effort and direct interaction between players is a very intentional, and actually very beneficial to players because it ensures that earning sufficient plat through trading is feasible even with terrible luck with farming, as opposed to games like Trove where basically no matter what by the time you've farmed enough stuff the price of the thing you want has already doubled and what you're selling has halved, or worse.

I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing the very obvious supply and demand issue. 

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

HA!

Did you play this game even two or three years ago? Do you have any idea what you're saying?

This same guy tried to use Failout 76 as an example for something warframe should do.

[Educated_Beast]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

The difference being that what I'm advocating would benefit most, if not all, players in the long term. Not only with greater trade security, but also make the game more new-player friendly and thereby preserve the population during content dry spells. Conversely unless you're planing to give a bunch of people free platinum, what you're advocating benefits only yourself. "The needs of the many..." and all that. You making ten percent more platinum today doesn't matter if the game dries up and dies from lack of new players tomorrow.

You think, but you have no evidence it would improve anything.  For every game you like that has an AH there is another player that hates it.  

I think it would destroy the market and turn away players.  The game is not drying up due to trade market, it's been the same for years and still strong.  Making a trade take effort keeps anyone from just doing it.

Besides, there is a market already.  Stop being lazy and use it if it's really that important.  I spend a few minutes listing and typically have to turn away buyers and turn settings to invisible because I underprice everyone.  I drive markets low.  More people like me and ember prime set will be selling for 20p.  I just sold one for 110p.  

Im so glad DE has the foresight and common since to keep that garbage out of thier game while allowing 3rd party sights to run it.  

Brilliant move by DE and really everyone should be happy.  

Edited February 20, 2020 by Educated_Beast

[(PSN)Onder6099]

You should stop to play and start to care about your family because it can easily come time when you will start to blame yourself you didn’t spent every second with your beloved nearest.

[kwlingo]

https://warframe.market/

This solves most of your mods and weapons. Also it provides a riven area also. So as you play your game players will message you when they see your parts and price they like. Best of luck tenno. Also there are other websites that help lots also like https://hub.warframestat.us/#/

 

[ArkThanatos]

5 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

HA!

Did you play this game even two or three years ago? Do you have any idea what you're saying?

yep started in 2017. an i do, problem is you are suffering from HIAS and DEWKS. 

this game has stuff constantly added but never finished nor polished. an during the time i have been playing Prime frames went from being a thing you could farm with ease to a real chore due to how they have dropped the drop rates and moved the rotations. 

DE is lazy and starting to be greedy, anyone who likes to say other wise is either lying to themselves unknowingly OR adamant that DE can do no wrong and would drink what ever poison kool aid they tell them to. 
i understand the need to make money, but if you are making money off your player base you should be delivering a product to the best of your abilities AND finishes a project, Polish would be appreciated. these are things DE doesn't do. Warframes a fun game, but its a POS that has been  fall ass backwards into success since i started playing. 
 

[mistsack]

28 minutes ago, ArkThanatos said:

yep started in 2017. an i do, problem is you are suffering from HIAS and DEWKS. 

this game has stuff constantly added but never finished nor polished. an during the time i have been playing Prime frames went from being a thing you could farm with ease to a real chore due to how they have dropped the drop rates and moved the rotations. 

DE is lazy and starting to be greedy, anyone who likes to say other wise is either lying to themselves unknowingly OR adamant that DE can do no wrong and would drink what ever poison kool aid they tell them to. 
i understand the need to make money, but if you are making money off your player base you should be delivering a product to the best of your abilities AND finishes a project, Polish would be appreciated. these are things DE doesn't do. Warframes a fun game, but its a POS that has been  fall ass backwards into success since i started playing. 
 

This my friend is called "Profit before players" a sad story. and yes you can see it more and more that they trying to push platinum sales with longer farm times or artificial limitation (riven cap, rail jack scraping ect.) its sad to see so many bugs still in the advertised "flagship content" Railjack but little to no fixes, while you can still spend a ton of platinum for stuff you can farm. or skins on content that gets boring in matters of minutes, because repetative, leecher paradise, litteral black screens if youre unlucky. but atleast you can buy cretain stuff with platinum to avoid most of it. i rather see they pump out some bug fixes and polishes rather than pumping out even more bug filled and unpolished "content" (again) hotfixing stuff that should never have been an issue if tested correctly. lets see waht a bug fest we have with the next "big" content update that will hold yet again maybe 10 new repetative mission and UNSKIPPABLE cutscenes in 2020 (sad), that will have so many bugs that you see 3 hotfixes the same day the content comes out. i could write forever on such stuff but i stop here.

Edited February 20, 2020 by mistsack

[ssxtriki]

come on guys i think 7 pages is enough talking about the same thing, everyone already proved the point,

also DE said that they will not change its working fine as it is,

we all agree they should be more focusing on bugs and polishing the game yes? Yes.

move along.

[Sharkgoblin]

 fallout76 ...does that game still exists?

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

I haven't seen any valid feedback. Though maybe its just getting buried by the trolls. What I've seen is an endless stream of people jumping my ass for something I didn't say, and referring me to a website that I already said in the opening post I know exists, and consider to be a "community run band-aid" that does not in any way address the systemic issue of the game. I even went so far as to directly elaborate on that, referring to the need to wait around and hope that a scheduled trade using that site to show up would still cut into my limited playtime. That website does not matter. It does not work. It does not solve the problem. It is just a something the community uses because they don't have a better option. And ironically that's WHY they don't have a better option. Why add something basic like this in, if the community is fine with their band-aid and treats anyone who dares suggest otherwise like dirt?

Maybe the reason you haven't seen any feedbak is because this is the general discussion section? The feedback section is elsewhere, and thats where it should have been to begin with.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

While it may be considered a dead horse, it's still a topic that very much impacts everyone's every day interactions with Warframe, thus making it a continual hot topic. I very much also agreed with the sentiment in the title of the thread. This game does have a tendency to make people into vending machines (even if you don't have to do it that way.)

(and while I dislike directly engaging in back-and-forths with individuals on forums, preferring to leave my suggestions to the Devs, rather than the forum-goers, since the forum-goers can't really do anything about it anyway, and my purpose is not to convince the forum-goers of anything... sadly the original post was posted in general discussion instead of feedback and suggestions... (where I have posted extensively)

I will say to the comment by the infuriating Guz (my post is not entirely directed at Guz, but to readers of the post in general to clarify my earlier post), that I thought I made myself clear in that I've had DECADES of experience, from playing to coding games, where Marketplaces have always been superior to "Trade Chat" (and despite popular opinion here, were never the cause of games' collapses from my observations - not even Diablo's debacle, which can be traced back to its simplistic itemization model among other things - the real money auction house was made a scapegoat, not that it was implemented well anyway), and I have participated in Trade Chat in other games - making plenty of in-game currency in those games despite the horrific nature of the spam, and is something I have no desire to interact with any more. This makes my sparse experience with trade chat in Warframe less of a "lack of experience with trade chat", and more a thing "I learned to avoid using" in several games because I hate it, and it plays into "Playing the Market" instead of "Playing the Game".

So, while I haven't mucked around in Warframe's trade chat to make personal sales (I use warframe.market, and never haggle, using buy-out prices only) I have tried to buy through trade chat for 2 relatively simple things, and even that minor interaction was a pain - maintaining my conclusion about the failure of "trade chat", and supporting the superiority of in-game marketplaces, in my experience and observations since before graphical online games were a thing, until now. This archaic method of trade is bad.

No matter how much "economics" jargon gets thrown around, it won't suddenly make trade chat any better, besides, games don't exactly follow real world rules - due to many factors that aren't the same and heavily influence "real world" dynamics. Not even an economics professor could change my mind to side with people who think an auction house would ruin a game - especially Warframe that has so many features in its favor - such as using a currency that cannot be infinitely farmed in-game - avoiding a problem which in past games has lead to "mudflation" - due to trading with a premium currency. The only way it enters the economy is with real world purchases and give-aways, and there are excessive amounts of plat-sinks in the game to drain it out - at least on consoles where you can buy all the cosmetics with plat (even if some mega-traders have horded large amounts.))

I've outlined a workable marketplace in the very feedback and suggestions thread that has been linked in this thread (its title suggesting why an auction house wouldn't work, but failing to present such a solid case against a well-designed marketplace - and as is often the case, many posts in that thread raise strawmen and proceed to burn them down, without addressing a properly designed marketplace, which misses the point entirely - and I think the two keys to the system are a Ducat tax, despite the main discussion in that thread veering off into the pros/cons of a plat tax. ... because it creates a Prime part drain on the system, creating more demand for things that you normally only need one of - something the "economists" of the thread should like quite a bit.  And second: limited listings per day in the automated system (while still allowing trades up to your limit outside the automated system as we have now) so the automated marketplace would not open the floodgates of everybody's past inventories. If you care to read more, see my posts in that thread.

 

[SneakyErvin]

An auction house would be lovely but...

You are asking DE to implement server space or put in alot of resources and work into a system that works for peer-to-peer so you can earn premium currency for free without putting any effort into it. So you want DE to spend resources to make it easier for you to get the thing DE actually wants us to buy, but are kind enough to let us earn through gameplay.

Someone please call Lassie beacuse I think poor Logic fell into a bottomless well.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

16 hours ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

Jesus Fin Christ OP, listen all bullS#&$ aside. Rebecca as alread acknowledged there are no plans for any kinda of paste and forget auction house to make thier premium currency. End of discussion. 

Wanna know why? 

.

.

.

.

.

(whispering) they like it that way... 

Another reason why an auction house will never be in warframe is cause it doesn't keep you engaged as trade chat, as trade chat requires engagement to post your wares or snag a buyer before anyone else. And while you browse the chat you may notice that a set is getting popular, you check and see your a single piece off from getting in on that action so you go back to fissures. Trade chat gives you reasons to go back into warframes gameplay loop of relics, eidolon hunting and mod farming, as you see active demand for it.

[Corvette590]

As other people have said, use warframe market. Furthermore, I do believe DE has said no to an auction house type thing.

[zehne]

I like the idea of an auction house...

...but then I realize that the price of anything/everything would drop to 1p each or so.

When baro came by with primed chamber this was made very very clear to me.  I usually don't run relics alot, I have most everything in game, I only farm things I want now.  I had ~~0ducats.  One visit to the vender and I had 3 primed chambers.  If there was an auction house then everyone like me would be able to list the hundreds of items and the supply would go up 1000 fold than what it currently is.  By laws of supply and demand the prices would drop.

So, good thing right?  Everyone can buy everything cheaply. Newbies can get good stuff fast and vets can somewhat reliably earn plat 1 item at a time?

Well, no.

How do you compete with 1p priced items?  You can't go any lower.  Next you'll see people complaining about how they can't sell items because their name starts with B and the first 5 pages of items for 1p are all people with names A. The only real way to balance that out would be to drain the supply.  How? Ducats of course!!!  Now items will be worth 1/5th their original value because that's the only way to drain the excess of parts so that supply doesn't completely kill demand.  Now more people will cry about baro prices/ducats.

As is, right now we have new releases and everyone farms the items.  Generally speaking what will happen is people will farm enough parts for 2-3 unwanted items in order to get that 1 wanted item.  This is the source of alot of excess.  By not having an AH that excess generally stagnates. 

By having it this way people who want to earn money in game CAN, the trade-off however is time spent in-game working to trade with others.  Those who don't want to spend time in game can spend money (and very likely if they are willing to pay, can find a seller near immediately with the use of said 3rd party sites, or just by 'WTB XXX, not-low-balled-price').  This is the way DE keeps the flow of platinum going.

tl;dr

Basically, the way the game is right now the playerbase collectively has enough excess items/parts to get most everyone everything in a very short time.  This sounds good until you realize that means the trading/generation of platnium and sales by DE will ultimately suffer long term unless actions are taken by DE to try an control the economy of the game.  Trying to engineer the game economy is no easy task and has led to the downfall of many games/companies.  By keeping the current system the natural law of supply and demand dictates the economy and the most efficient solution is provided free of cost to DE.

Most the time I don't sell things because I don't consider the time of trading with the person worthwhile.  Most the time people buy things because they consider the time to trade worth while.  Creating an AH depreciates this worth for both parties since supply in warframe is not an issue.  The loot style of warframe doesn't currently support a system (other than ducats, but even then you run out of things to buy with ducats, so it really doesn't) where demand is continuous, so an AH would flourish initially but ultimately kill trade/playbase longterm.

Tl;dr, tl;dr

Warframe doesn't have expendable 'resources', they always accrue in one form or another*.  This means that the supply(of items) >>demand** which means an AH would kill the game economy.  By forcing players to spend time to trade supply is limited not by items, but by player willingness.  Currently that keeps supply and demand in check allowing the game economy to exist.

*Yes you can spend plat, but you can't spend primes, so eventually everyone will want plat but no-one will want primes, killing trade

**Assuming there isn't a high turnover rate of players/influx.  To my knowledge there isn't, so this point stands.

Edited February 20, 2020 by zehne

[SastusBulbas]

On 2020-02-19 at 3:50 AM, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

I am thirty-five years old. I am a husband. I am a father. I work three jobs to support myself and my family. I am not a vending machine. 

I am not some kid, wasting his parent's money after school. I have a rather demanding life, that consumes the vast majority of my time. Thus, with the few precious hours each night I have to play a game, I would like to actually PLAY a game. What I do not want to do is stand around in a social hub with my hand over my head advertising some random item, hoping someone strolls by and inserts a few platinum. But apparently I am a vending machine.

I am told the solution to my problems in this game is to trade rare items for platinum, and use those to buy additional this or that. Because apparently I am a vending machine.

Literally every other online game on the market has some sort of established trading post or auction house where one can drop off items to be sold while they do other things. I know there is a website for trading with people, but that is a community run band-aid, and does not excuse poor design or missing features. Even Bethesda's recent online dumpster fire has a pop-up shop where you can drop off items that stays in place as long as you stay logged in, allowing you to actually PLAY their train wreak of a game while selling your loot. But, it seems, I am a vending machine.

In a few very specific, but not insignificant, ways Warframe is an objectively worse game than Fallout 76. And I am NOT a vending machine.

Really.

 

12h a day Tues to Sat, Sunday n Monday off. Used to be times where that could be 11 days or a regular 9 in a row.

 

3 kids, partner is part time, problems up to the eyeballs.

 

But I still buy my plat, never sold anything to a player, only bought from. 

 

I have a PC account, xbox account, Switch account.

 

Considering how much time I have, grinding for plat would be a less cost effective of grinding what I want versus spare time if it was mixed with time trying to trade with others for plat I can buy.

 

Edit, an hour commute each way, still travelling home now.

 

So with three jobs and kids, why cant u afford plat and where do u find the time?

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by SastusBulbas

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

21 minutes ago, SastusBulbas said:

Really. 12h a day Tues to Sat, Sunday n Monday off. Used to be times where that could be 11 days or a regular 9 in a row. 3 kids, partner is part time, problems up to the eyeballs. But I still buy my plat, never sold anything to a player, only bought from. I have a PC account, xbox account, Switch account. Considering how much time I have, grinding for plat would be a less cost effective of grinding what I want versus spare time if it was mixed with time trying to trade with others for plat I can buy.

Edit, an hour commute each way, still travelling home now. So with three jobs and kids, why cant u afford plat and where do u find the time?

ftfy; no need to thank me

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2020-02-18 at 9:56 PM, Mr.Fluffins said:

I am going to give this a fully serious response, even though I don't believe for a moment that OP works three jobs and etc.

1. If you don't like trading at Maroo's Bazaar, use warframe market. Make an account, list your items (you can even check relative prices that thing go for, how convenient is that) and just wait for people to message you. If I list items that are in-demand (like veiled rivens, popular prime parts, augments for warframes) depending on the time of the day I get quite a few offers.

2. Warframe is F2P. If you have a lot of free time, you can progress without paying a dime at a good pace. If you don't have a lot of time, you probably have a job and have some cash that you can spend to progress faster if you don't have time. If you don't have both money to spend and time, well then you can still progress, just very slowly.

3. The limits on trading are intentional, because again, even though F2P, Warframe, unlike many other games, gives you the option to play it 100% free if you have the time, even buying delux skins and other store cosmetics with premium currency. Obviously, getting premium currency should require effort and time from players if they don't want to spend cash, otherwise it is worthless, nobody would pay for it and DE would either go bankrupt or employ much more strict monetization (like content paywalls from Desitny 2).

Fallout 76 is motherf*ckin 60 dollar game with a cash shop attached to it. It is just another "AAA" industry vomit that basically says "give me all your money while I am busy sh1tting on you as a customer and being a lazy crap product." Comparing how they handle monetization to a F2P is completely dishonest, since a cash shop shouldnt exist in a 60 dollar game to begin with.

Very much on point. Thank you for posting this.