The Superior and inferior abilities that are similar

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Ash teleport Vs Loki switch teleport: Limitations

Spoiler

Ash`s can teleport to enemies, perform finishers which I noticed he is invulnerable when doing so and teleport to objects with a health bar and sometimes through windows, Loki`s version on the other hand, can only switch places with enemies which most of the time is a bad thing if there are multiple enemies and can teleport to his decoy which I think for the most part is not really useful.

 

Improvements: Switch teleport

·       After switching with the enemy, loki will be invulnerable for 1 second.

·       Loki is always be facing the enemy he switches with.

·       If he teleports into a group of enemies, they will receive a knockdown in a 10m radius however, this only works if you`re not invisible.

·       If you have a melee weapon equipped while doing so, enemies will take slide attack damage from melee weapon.

·        (Synergy) If you decide to switch places with the decoy, you and the decoy will knock down enemies within a 15m radius.

3

 

Wukong cloud walker Vs Revenant reave: Movement and healing

Spoiler

Even through it`s harder to control, cloud walker moves faster with a 2s duration and can heal you based on the distance travelled by 1% while reave moves much slower with a 1s duration and can only receive 8% health and shields when passing through enemies.

Improvements: Rework

Imo reave isn`t a bad ability but there is no point for revenant to have it when his 2nd ability does its job better…. surviving. His 3rd ability needs a new ability and reave could be given to a ghost warframe which makes sense, as for a new ability maybe it could be a de-buffing ability.

3

 

Volt electric shield Vs Atlas tectonics: Usefulness

Spoiler

Electric shield can cast up to six shields to put in multiple places, shooting through it will give volt and allies electric damage and a 200% critical damage killing enemies quicker, casting his first ability through the shield will increase its damage, can cover up to three allies because of the size of it and can be carried by volt for protection while on the move while tectonics has an invulnerable phase to increase its health, can roll on deactivation dealing damage to enemies in its path and using the 3rd ability can increase the distance travelled and its damage.

So Volt`s 3rd has 5 uses and Atlas` 2nd has 3, Volt not only more uses but is a far better shield than atlas.

Improvements: Tectonics

·       When aiming at the rock-wall with it becomes see-through.

·       If enemies are shooting at it, it will absorb the damage which increases the damage when using it against the enemies when deactivating the ability.

·       On deactivation, it will shoot like a fast projectile instead of a slow roll.

·       Holding the ability will display a range indicator for aiming at enemies and on release will shoot the rock wall instantly.

·       If Atlas or allies stand near it, they will receive 30% status chance in a 15m radius. 50% status chance if shooting through rock-wall.

·       (Synergy) Using the 1st ability on it will make it explodes and drop glowing rubble, When picked up, it will produce a glowing aura (colour based on energy colour) around atlas which will make him and the team 30% resistance to elemental procs for 20 seconds.

2

 

Baruuk desolate hands Vs Nova null star: Everything

Spoiler

·       Baruuk receives 10% DR from one dagger while nova receives 5% DE with one particle.

·       Dh`s seeking range is 6m and can double if you have his 1st ability active while Ns has a 21m range which make her loose dr quickly and makes her have to stay at a distance.

·        Dh does more damage (250) which has an explosion radius of 3m which can be increased by range mods and hit multiple enemies within range while nova does less damage (200) with no explosion radios.

·       Dh can disarm enemies while nova cannot.

·       You have the choice to either choose to have dr or disarm nearby enemies while nova doesn`t have a choice.

·       Allies can benefit from dh while nova`s ns can`t offer any benefit to alies.

·       Dh has 8 charges while ns has 6 particles.

The only thing that ns has that beats dh is that it costs 25 energy while dh costs 75 energy but as you can see, you get more out of dh than ns. Imo Nova`s 1st ability is useless for the fact than no one noticed that it had dr until DE mentioned it had it which says a lot about the ability.

 

Improvements: Null star

The goal her is not to make it better than desolate hands but to make it beneficial in more ways than one that will increase its usefulness.

·       Increase damage to 500.

·       Instead of it inflicting slash damage it will proc impacted damage which will have a 100% stagger affect. If the particle hits the same enemy again it will knock them down.

·       The more enemies it hits the more the damage increases.

·       If you hold the ability it won`t seek out enemies but instead can be used for damage reduction however status procs will consume particles. Pressing the ability will revert it back to seeking out enemies.

·       Damage reduction will not disappear until all particles are gone.

10

 

Vauban tesla nervos Vs Atlas rumblers & Wukong celestial twin: Freedom of movement

Spoiler

One thing I like about tesla nervos is that you can do one think while they do something else with no need to watch them, which you were able to do with Atles` rumblers. I like that the rumblers could attack and draw enemy attention while I would loot in a syndicate mobile defence mission now everywhere, I go they always teleport to me, the same goes for wukong`s celestial twin. Now I have to be close to them just for them to stay on one area which is not enjoyable more so with ct since with a gun can most of the time kill faster than you using melee weapon. Imo having to babysit them is a turnoff for me and ruins both abilities for me.

 

Suggestion: Get rid

Instead of them automatically teleporting to you let the rumblers do their own thing like before which was great, as for ct if you want it to reach your location pressing the ability on the ground will command them to teleport to you. (maybe add this for rumblers)

7

 

Wisp wil-o-wisp Vs Loki decoy: Usefulness

Spoiler

Wow has multiple uses than a distraction, it can move in the direction your facing, holding the ability can increase its movement speed

 

Improvements: Decoy

·       After cast, it`s immune to damage for five seconds while absorbing damage however, the five seconds of immunity doesn’t start until it gets attacked. Depending on the damage stored it will be converted into health for more survivability.

·       Holding the ability will make the decoy mobile within a 10m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       When shooting, enemies will be affected by an impact proc making them stagger.

·       There is a 50% chance of it to proc blast damage knocking enemies down, if this happens, enemies within a 30m radius will prioritise the decoy as a dangerous threat increasing threat levels for seven seconds. (threat levels higher than interception and defence targets)

·       It will use whatever primary or secondary weapon Loki is currently using.

·       (Synergy) If you switch places with the decoy, you and the decoy will knock down enemies within a 15m radius.

2

 

Gara shattered lash Vs Nekros soul punch: Damage and synergies

Spoiler

Improvements: Soul punch

·       An enemy affected by this will be susceptible to critical and status damage.

·       Enemy effected can deal no damage to you or allies.

·       Enemies affected by this will visually be transparent that’s shown as an indicator by chosen energy colour.

·       Using this will cause a small ragdoll.

1

 

Excalibur exalted blade Vs Wukong primal fury: Stances

Spoiler

Exalted blade`s stance looks great and has a unique ability while primal fury is just a long stick with no unique benefit of using besides the way it looks. The last hit in the neutral combo makes you throw you staff and drop to the ground which slows your movement.

 

Improvements: Primal fury

·       Put the spinning bow combo (last combo) at the end of the forward tactical combo (ftc).

·       At the beginning of the neutral combo, add some new combos with some simple bow hits.

·       Make the second hit from the ftc lunge you further forward.

·       The ground slam animation should look like the slams when Wukong`s staff is bigger. (the slam we have now looks weak)

·       The ground finisher animation should be Wukong jabbing his staff into the enemy`s back.

Here so some options for some unique abilities;

·       Holding the attack button at an enemy will pull wukong to it causing a kick that staggers the enemy and closing the gap.

·       While blocking, wukong can absorb damge with no limit and can be released by a slide attack, a slam attack and synergises with the 3rd ability by increasing the swipe damage.

·       While using it, Wukong has 30% increase dodge speed, bullet-jump 50% farther and 20% sprint speed.

·       While blocking, wukong can reflect damage back at enemies having a 20% chance of staggering them.

·       The combo multi racks up, it will increase the range of the staff.

8

 

Now this is going to be a list of where one warframe having two abilities that has the same purpose.

 

Titania`s lantern and Spellbind

Spoiler

The point of these abilities is lock enemies down in an area with the difference being that one gives you immunity to status effects and one does damage over time and be detonated.

 

Improvements: Spellbind

·       Increase ability radius from 5m to 10m.

·       Instead of them rag dolling, make them just hover in the air.

·       Enemies affected are vulnerable to damage.

·       Shooting enemies will have a 50% chance to drop health orbs. When picked up, it will send out a 15m wave of health regeneration giving her and allies 10 health a second for 5 seconds.

·       (Synergy) if you use the 2nd ability on an enemy affected by the 1st ability, they have a 75% chance to drop energy orbs. It can also move the hovering enemy.

 

 

Khora`s Ensnare and Strangledome

Spoiler

Ensnare has a delay before trapping a small group of enemies while strangledome traps a large group of enemies, they both have the same synergy to where using the 1st ability on them will increase its damage.

Superior Ability: Strangledome.

Suggestion: Get rid and replace

Because they are so similar there is no need to have two abilities that to the same thing plus ensnare has a delay while strangldome does not. I would rather her get an exalted whip like the idea was supposed to be.

2

 

Mesa`s Shooting gallery and Shatter shield

Spoiler

Even though shooting gallery offers cc, gives a small damage buff and allies can receive it while shatter shield gives DR to Mesa, at the core, both of these abilities offer protection SG protects from close range enemies while SS protects from long-range enemies.

Suggestion: Add synergy to Shatter Shield

 

 

Nyx`s Mind control and Chaos

Spoiler

Both abilities can control enemies, one can control an enemy that does increased damage and the other is a cc that can control multi enemies.

Superior Ability: Chaos

MC can increase the damage to the enemy affected but it`s only one enemy, the AI is bad, and it moves slow.

Suggestion: Combine the abilities

1

 

Revenant`s Mesmer Skin and Reave

Spoiler

MS gives survivability by the number of charges it has whereas reave can phase through enemies to regenerate health and shields.

Superior Ability: Mesmer Skin

If I had to choose between the two, I`d rather use MS reason being that enemies that attack you will be unconscious which gives you full protection and offers small cc even through reave does offer mobility.

Suggestion: Get rid and replace

Since they do the same thing there is not really a reason to both abilities, the way Reave works, it would be better given to another warframe like a ghost or a vampire-themed warframe. The ability can be replaced with something Revenant doesn’t have like a de-buff or a support ability.

3

 

Trinity`s Well of life and Blessing

Spoiler

Shooting an enemy affected by WOL will regenerate anyone that attacks it while levitating one enemy, Blessing can heal and restore shields to anyone within its range.

Superior Ability: Blessing

 

Suggestion: Change its purpose

The ability could still work the same but have a different effect.

 

Spoiler

I have made a post of some warframe changes . To see some ideas relating to this post or just to see other warframe ideas click the link.

 

3

 

[Cicasajt]

you are very [narrow minded] if u think similar abilities should be equally good 

[CopperBezel]

Yeah, very often the entire idea is that a frame has a somewhat weaker version of something another frame has in one area as a part of a different kit that does different things and has different strengths. All damage reduction abilities that aren't Gara's Splinter Storm, for instance, are weaker versions of Gara's Splinter Storm, and it's also most of what she's got going on.

Ensnare and Strangeldome are similar to one another in exactly two ways, by the way: they're CC that comes with a synergy (not even the same synergy) with her damage ability. She'd be a much weaker frame without either one.

[keikogi]

1 hour ago, Cicasajt said:

you are very [narrow minded] if u think similar abilities should be equally good 

Abities should not be equally good but alot of abities showcased by op are terrible and should receive buffs regarless of comparations with similar abitlities.  

Atlas tectonics is incredibly niche 

Nekors soul punch is mostly useless.

Well of life is redudant ( why would I use a slow heal when I can use a quick health with an extea laywer of protection )

Decoy is outdated and could use modernizing 

 

[Pie_mastyr]

Reave is actually a kill move that synergizes with his 1, that with positive strength will 2 shot enemies and with high strength can oneshot. I do agree it could use a bit more duration, but I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding  the ability. It also is really fast with his 4 active.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Every ability needs to be made useful, but it needs to be measured within its own kit. Not compared to other frames. 

[NinjaZeku]

I'm disappointed you didn't compare Pull and Sonic Boom,
because man does SB get the short end of the stick between the two.

Don't really agree on some things TBH, not least the second half of your post, there's enough difference between most abilities, like,
Spellbind gives (Squad) proc protection while Lantern is ongoing area denial,
Ensnare is cheaper and works on enemies where SD might fail,
you yourself said how Mesa's 2 and 3 do different things,
MC's single-target full conversion is not the same as Chaos' mass confusion,
Reave is an infinitely scaling offensive ability while Mesmer Skin is defensive.

Of course, Well of Life indeed needs to go / get reworked massively already 😛
_{Your "make it the same but different" is a bit ... vague tho lol}

[(PSN)Vexx757]

There are somethings I said about warframe abilities but not give some ideas of my own, If you want to see them click the link to my other post.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1168575-warframe-reworks-revisits-qols-of-every-frame/

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by (PS4)Vexx757

[CopperBezel]

I'm not sure why you feel that helps, when we've established that you kinda don't understand most of these frames? I mean, there is nothing wrong with that, no one player gets every frame, but your reach is wildly exceeding your grasp here.

[EvasionChaos]

On 2020-02-25 at 9:33 AM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

 

Gara shattered lash Vs Nekros soul punch: Damage and synergies

  Hide contents

Improvements: Soul punch

·       An enemy affected by this will be susceptible to critical and status damage.

·       Enemy effected can deal no damage to you or allies.

·       Enemies affected by this will visually be transparent that’s shown as an indicator by chosen energy colour.

·       Using this will cause a small ragdoll.

1

 

This. Soul punch is so underwhelming.

[NinjaZeku]

15 hours ago, EvasionChaos said:

Soul punch is so underwhelming.

I still think Nekros should just get Titania's Tribute in place of Soul Punch
(but keep the name, because, you know, that's what Tribute literally does).

This would then free up a slot on Titania for, say, a damage reduction ability
(I'm thinking something like Desolate Hands / Splinter Storm, not least including the ability to share it with the Squad).

You'd end up with even more Squad support prowess on Nekros (yay)
while Titania could focus on her (already buff-overshadowing) CC / damage aspects.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

23 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

I still think Nekros should just get Titania's Tribute in place of Soul Punch

I totally agree with this, I was thinking to add this idea on one of my posts since it makes sense but it was way to similar to Titania.  

[OmegaVoid]

On 2020-02-25 at 8:19 PM, NinjaZeku said:

I'm disappointed you didn't compare Pull and Sonic Boom,
because man does SB get the short end of the stick between the two.

Huh?

I don't Mag much, and I kinda suck at using her, so maybe I've missed something, but if there's a buch of enemies in front of her, Mag's options include: press 2 to put them in the bubble of doom, or use Pull to distribute them willy-nilly somewhere behind her. Pull mostly seems useful when avoiding combat -- send 'em flying and run for it.

In case Banshee somehow didn't get an enemy dead before it recovers from the Silence stun, Sonic Boom is a quick, low-cost CC to put it straight on the floor, get in an extra cast of Sonar if necessary (hello Nox), and kill it before it's back up again. YMMV depending on playstyle but, for me, when it's needed it's exactly what's required.

[OmegaVoid]

On 2020-02-25 at 2:33 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Loki`s version on the other hand, can only switch places with enemies which most of the time is a bad thing if there are multiple enemies

Because if there's an bunch of Infested/Corrupted and the Ancient Healer they're clustering around for protection suddenly moves 15m in an eyeblink and gets gibbed by detonating Penta grenades, it's not a problem for them. Not even when the Healer has been replaced by an invisible Nikana-wielding assassin. They'll be fine 😆.

On 2020-02-25 at 2:33 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Improvements: Switch teleport

·       After switching with the enemy, loki will be invulnerable for 1 second.

He'll need that, since he can't go invisible. Oh wait... 

On 2020-02-25 at 2:33 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

·       If he teleports into a group of enemies, they will receive a knockdown in a 10m radius however, this only works if you`re not invisible.

Interesting. You're perhaps trying to create a niche playstyle for Loki users who... don't want to go invisible?

On 2020-02-25 at 2:33 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

·       If you have a melee weapon equipped while doing so, enemies will take slide attack damage from melee weapon.

Pretty sure that's what happens next anyway 😆.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-02-26 at 11:10 PM, EvasionChaos said:

This. Soul punch is so underwhelming.

Instead of telling me It`s underwhelming, why don`t you tell me why it is underwhelming and tell me what you would do kmt.

[EvasionChaos]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Instead of telling me It`s underwhelming, why don`t you tell me why it is underwhelming and tell me what you would do kmt.

It has low damage and only serves to ragdoll one target. It's not good for crowd control and it's not good for damage. In short, Nekros would pretty much lose nothing if that ability didn't exist at all, kind of like Spectral Scream on Chroma.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

21 hours ago, EvasionChaos said:

It has low damage and only serves to ragdoll one target. It's not good for crowd control and it's not good for damage. In short, Nekros would pretty much lose nothing if that ability didn't exist at all, kind of like Spectral Scream on Chroma.

Ok... now what would you do to improve it?

[CopperBezel]

Make it Tribute instead. = /

[(PSN)thegarada]

On 2020-02-25 at 10:02 AM, Cicasajt said:

you are very [narrow minded] if u think similar abilities should be equally good 

They should not necessarily be equal. However, there is a huge issue when similar skills in terms applicability have difficulty in applying the skill. 

[CopperBezel]

Is it though? Is it really? The standard illustration here would be Trinity. Her 4's healing and her 2's energy regen are unmatched by any other frame. The reason it's okay for her to have them is the fact that she has no offensive or CC abilities whatsoever and can only provide defense and regen. In other words, they'd be OP as a part of any other frame's kit, and are balanced by the sheer fact that they come attached to Trinity's instead.

[EvasionChaos]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Ok... now what would you do to improve it?

Personally, I'd buff the damage and make the soul projectile a wide, straight-moving wave that damage and knocks down enemies along the way. Can't think of good values off the top of my head (I'm not a game designer). I wouldn't rework it further than that because Soul Punch is such a friggin cool concept itself, especially for the soul-reaping Nekros.

[EvasionChaos]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Ok... now what would you do to improve it?

Also I just realized that I worded my initial comment weird. I think you might have interpreted it as me saying your version of soul punch is underwhelming. What I really said was "I like this. Current Soul Punch is so underwhelming." Sorry for the confusion, didn't mean any disrespect!

[(PSN)Vexx757]

19 hours ago, EvasionChaos said:

Personally, I'd buff the damage and make the soul projectile a wide, straight-moving wave that damage and knocks down enemies along the way. Can't think of good values off the top of my head (I'm not a game designer). I wouldn't rework it further than that because Soul Punch is such a friggin cool concept itself, especially for the soul-reaping Nekros.

Interesting. Thinking about it now I will also add  the enemy that is hit before the ragdoll will knockdown enemies near it in a 10m radius.

19 hours ago, EvasionChaos said:

Also I just realized that I worded my initial comment weird. I think you might have interpreted it as me saying your version of soul punch is underwhelming. What I really said was "I like this. Current Soul Punch is so underwhelming." Sorry for the confusion, didn't mean any disrespect!

Now you have explained, I have no issue. I just don`t like ppl that says an idea is crap without saying why or what they would do instead.