Warframe Revised: Shield Gating Megathread

[SprinKah]

Please consider tuning down Corpus side shield gating, Again I still thhink the whole constantly regenerating aspect of their shield gate should be removed, I think 1s or 0.5s invulnerability on shield break.

Or just make their shield stops lethal damage is enough to balance them out with the Grineer, now that they got their armor scaling reduced. 

I think the shield gate on Corpus doesn't affect Players vs Corpus TOO much, but when it comes to Corpus vs other AI NPCS, they're pretty much immortal at this point,, I sat through Corpus side invasion missions and honestly, they can just finish the whole thing themselves. Nothing can go through their shield.

I think we can find the best of both worlds on that note. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by SprinKah

[Aryustailm]

On 2020-03-05 at 11:38 AM, whit3sh4d0w86 said:

I know that not a lot of people play Hildryn and that's why there is not a big cry out about this, but the shield recharge delay changes are a HUGE nerf to her survivability.

I'd point out one thing: her massive amount of shields went up a notch from that 25% damage reduction aspect and the reduced accuracy of incoming fire. She's definitely in a worse spot than before when they do go down, but they're a bit harder to bring down. Especially with Rolling Guard to avoid them crashing in the first place (basically 2s of guaranteed recharge if they weren't popped).

She does, however, need new parts to her passive though, so some of your suggestions/solutions could find a home in there.

[Kaokasalis]

The shield gating idea is a much needed change for squishy frames but its execution leaves something to be desired. Shields still gets shredded relatively fast at higher levels and while the hits that broke your shields may not bleed over into the health, the next incoming hits certainly will. What is also not helping is that if you build for shields you either have to sacrifice warframe power viability or cut down on your frames health to accommodate for shields. Simply put, the window of survival that shields offer is currently too short.

-Mods that grants shield capacity should have their outputs doubled or tripled because shields just wont survive at higher levels. This would obviously over-benefit Hildryn so some measure is needed to prevent her from getting to much shields but one frame cannot hold the others back.

-Shield recharge mods needs to be looked at. Some tweaks to their percentages are needed and they would benefit immensely by becoming exilus mods.

-Make something special out of Overshields. At the current moment its basically just more shields that is hard to keep full. It would be awesome if Overshields raised the damage reduction further.

-It might be time to introduce more direct means of gaining shields back similarly to Life Strike/Healing Return.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Kaokasalis

[motorfirebox]

Currently, high-level Corpus or any Corpus with a nearby shield osprey are dang near invulnerable, due to constantly-regenerating shields instantly refreshing their shield gate. That might be a neat mechanic for some high-level mobs or minibosses, but letting every Corpus with a shield osprey seems like a bit much.

Maybe give NPC shield gates a 5 second cooldown or something?

[czechart]

Corpus enemies seem tougher now than their grineer counterparts - maybe a little bit more of damage spillover would balance those fraction, but overall the whole change feels really good

[Ikusias]

Overall corpus units above a certain level and Orb vallis units seem a tad bit overtuned:

- shield ospreys if out of line of fire become a major pain due to instantly recharging enemy depleted shields infinite times

- heavy units seem to have proportionally more shields than what their status bar shows - being more durable is fine on its own, coupled with shield ospreys becomes eccessive

- ratels' electric guns seem to proc a tad bit too much too quickly, scaling in threat with level in a disproportionate way compared to their nature

- nullifiers get the benefit of their energy dome + shield gating and a whole host of other units screening them most of the time... isn't a bit too much cheese? what about retiring them for good finally?

- status and element changes have definitely increased the letality of rapid and continuous fire weapons, especially corpus' ones, maybe a touch too much, depleting shields quickly and preventing regeneration while cutting directly to HP at alarming paces

- the sum of the above elements makes the corpus one of the least fun factions to fight by far, considering also their reduced xp compared to grineer and that shield gating let them defang most Aoe weapons beyond the current nerfs

 

A personal issue i've got with shields currently is that you need to mod them for quantity and recharge speed, providing an overall worse investment than armor due how fast enemy fire chews trough them at current values - enemy shields have drastically larger pools and scale very aggressively

Edited March 7, 2020 by Ikusias

[YogsZach]

Hildryn needs help.  Currently she no longer has working passive.  She needs drastically reduced amount of time between shield recharging or something else to help her out.

[Grey_Fenn]

A little feedback on new shield audio/visual effects:  

The new 'shield is recharging' sound effect - I like this; it is noticeable, intuitive and not intrusive.  Well done.

The new 'shields are down' visual effect - I mostly like this.  I like the fact that it is noticeable all over the screen (instead of just a corner of the UI).  It feels a bit more intrusive than it needs to be though - I do need to see what's going on and it definitely interferes with that (momentarily, but still it is distracting).  I'd suggest an increase in the transparency of the effect so it's still very noticeable but doesn't block my screen so much.

 

[-PP_Extendus-]

why do cameras have shield gate PEPEGA

[Anonym0usgnouhc]

 

On 2020-03-06 at 1:30 AM, Twistedsparkle said:

somethings weird...
sometimes the shieldgate doesnt work and I just get burst damaged anyway
might be a bug? but overall shields do feel more resilient

Shield gate invulnerability seem only trigger if you have FULL SHIELD, it would be terrible for frame with higher shield since it take longer to fully recharge.

After several test, i can confirm that invulnerability only work when your shield is fully charge, making shield mod a bad choice.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Anonym0usgnouhc

[atejas]

There needs to be an actual invuln indicator when the shield gate triggers. Hildryn has it, other frames need it.

[Grey_Fenn]

59 minutes ago, Anonym0usgnouhc said:

 

Shield gate invulnerability seem only trigger if you have FULL SHIELD, it would be terrible for frame with higher shield since it take longer to fully recharge.

After several test, i can confirm that invulnerability only work when your shield is fully charge, making shield mod a bad choice.

 

What I recall from the devstream is that they said the shield gate would kick in the first time you hit 0 shield, but then you have to recharge to full before it will work again.  So you don't need to be at full shields when you take a hit for the gating to work, but you do need to have hit full shields since the last gating.

[xDangerCatx]

Still a little too early to come to any conclusion about the shield gating, besides the fact that corpus cameras are really annoying now.  I was wandering through the second sortie today as Ivara, taking potshots at enemies with my fulmin and mostly one shotting them, two if I missed their weakspot, but I still took a chunk of health off them with the first shot.  But when I came up against cameras? One shot to take down the shield, one shot to kill it.  No chunk of life was taken out of hp with the first shot either.

Was I missing the weakspot? The camera is so small, it's entirely a weakspot.  It's not a game breaker, or anything but it's annoying to have to use two shots to kill a silly camera, which is more than it takes to kill most normal corpus enemies with their shield.  I'm sure it's going to be extra fun when I run across an enhanced shield corpus spy mission 😄

In closing, I think you should remove gating from entities like this.  The gating serves only to frustrate on objects like these.  And if it is an all or nothing thing and you can't selectively remove gates from single mobs, maybe you could just take the shield off them because it's not protecting the camera from a Warframe.  We're like Honey Badgers here.

[mizeriq]

The corpus tech drones regenerate shields pretty rapidly, making corpus tech much more resistant to slow weapons like shotguns, while faster firing weapons have no such issues.

This basically forces specific weapons, or only going for headshots (and inaccurate shotguns already have issues with that), with the difference being extreme, a weapon that can take down a corpus tech in one headshot can land a dozen body shots and the tech would still be standing.

Instead of an extreme twenty fold reduction, it should be something more manageable like 5 times and enemy shield regeneration and shield gate should be limited in the same way they are limited for players (delay after taking damage before shields can regenerate and no repeat shield gating until the shields are fully restored), so different weapons/play styles remain viable, instead of facing a forced choice, because of extreme number differences.

I already don't really use shotguns, and this makes them annoying to use vs corpus and the whole thing is likely a big issue for lower MR players, where all their weapons and abilities might be too weak to effectively fight through all the shield regeneration and infinite shield gating.

[potiisbest]

Shieldgate is a little Op now for some frames who already got survivability , I would suggest to tune down the duration deepending on the frames armor + health value. Example : X frame has 300 armor and 150 health he should get around 0.3 shieldgating . If a frame has 125 armor and 100 health than it should get 0.7-0.9 sec of shieldgating. Becuse frame who already own a dmg reduction skill or some form of protection ( or high base survivability ) got the most benifit from this ! Also Arbitration drones does not have a weakspot so you cant bypass shieldgating on them. 

[Twistedsparkle]

7 hours ago, Anonym0usgnouhc said:

 

Shield gate invulnerability seem only trigger if you have FULL SHIELD, it would be terrible for frame with higher shield since it take longer to fully recharge.

After several test, i can confirm that invulnerability only work when your shield is fully charge, making shield mod a bad choice.

 

yes after playing for a awhile this is what I concluded aswell
I hope they take a look at it

right now its actually better to have smaller shield so it can recharge to full faster

[BrazilianJoe]

Shield gating: After the invulnerability phase, should then become 50% damage reduction. Damage reduction would gradually reduce by X% per tick, 10 ticks per second. X% = 1000 / shields. Mods that increase shields: for every 10% shield increase, 1% additional damage reduction - can go beyond 100%, it would take longer to wear off.

That way, high build shields give nice survivability. 

[SprinKah]

I'm gonna be honest, I've tested a bunch in Simulacrum. now that Grineer armor scaling is reduced, there's no need for Corpus shield gate anymore imo. Corpus does a heck lots more damage than most grineer enemies, and their shield counters a lot more elementals and damage types than Grineer pure armor.

Plus, shield scales a lot more aggressively in higher levels, was and still is. 

I think just giving them preventing lethal damage when their shield breaks and some invulnerability after like the Tenno shield gate is good enough to make them on par with the Grineer now. No need for the constant regeneration. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by SprinKah

[SprinKah]

sorry my comment posted twice for some reason. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by SprinKah

[D4RKGMR0]

Can we get shield-gating removed for Arbitration Drones? There is currently no way to bypass Shield-Gating on them except for the 5% bleed-over (They have no weakspots to shoot at and they are unaffected by Warframe abilities, which means they are exempt from BOTH hard counters to enemy shield-gating).

EDIT: And yeah, no constant regenerating shields on Corpus please. Shield-gate and temporary invulnerability (not more than 1 second, and only when shield-gate is hit; so no invulnerability from weakspot hits or WF abilities) is enough for them, since they compensate with higher DPS already. Corpus have become far too powerful against other factions (especially in Invasions and the like).

Edited March 7, 2020 by D4RKGMR0

[LithiumRose]

I am a big fan of these changes. My main girl Mag feels durable enough now that I might even consider taking off Arcane Guardian. I'd love to see the addition of more mods that build on the shield gating mechanics - e.g. longer shield gate, shorter shield regen delay, etc.

I also think the Corpus are in a good spot at the moment. The constant shield regeneration can be counteracted by building for magnetic, and they also feel nicely durable and less like tissue paper. I find myself actually targeting shield drones first! I used to just ignore them because they didn't really make a difference.

[SprinKah]

52 minutes ago, ProTerraMori said:

I am a big fan of these changes. My main girl Mag feels durable enough now that I might even consider taking off Arcane Guardian. I'd love to see the addition of more mods that build on the shield gating mechanics - e.g. longer shield gate, shorter shield regen delay, etc.

I also think the Corpus are in a good spot at the moment. The constant shield regeneration can be counteracted by building for magnetic, and they also feel nicely durable and less like tissue paper. I find myself actually targeting shield drones first! I used to just ignore them because they didn't really make a difference.

In terms of Tenno shield gate, i think it's perfect right now for what it is, though I can't say for ALL warframes.

As for CORPUS shield gate, I get what you meant, but I honestly think there's a better... best of both worlds, I really don't want the whole shield constant regen thing to stay because well....Personally...it ruined this one thing that I love to do in Warframe...RIP Simulacrum Grineer vs Corpus mock battles :((

I'm sure there's a better way to make Corpus enemies more in lined with Grineer and to be honest with you, they already are, Grineer's armor scaling is reduced a lot now and honestly, they're not really the big bois anymore, I'd say a lot of Corpus enemies are more durable than them, even without the shield gate and constant shield regen (And the thing is this whole constant shield regen thing doesn't even apply to all Corpus enemies yet aka Terra Corpus enemies)

I still think making Corpus shield stopping lethal damage and ONLY that, is the way to go, PERHAPS MAYBE brief invulnerability like Warframe could work but not as long, that would still make them potentially surviving more than 1 bullet to kill (depends on the weapon I guess). Because the whole constant shield regen thing can either do a lot or nothing at all, depends on the level. I think the whole constant shield regen can only be limited to Corpus Ospreys as support and that's good enough. 

Overall, great update but this whole Corpus shield gate kinda left a bitter taste in my mouth, not for the...most conventional reasons. But I think with the change I suggested above could do good on that, best of both worlds, I believe so. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by SprinKah

[ldegroodt115]

I really feel like there should've been seperate threads for enemy vs warframe shieldgating feedback, because as is I'm a little worried that the former might be ignored. I also think a lot of it depends on whether people want to be switching their builds every mission. I'm fine with being a little inefficient but the enemy shield gating is kind of getting annoying. limernest said it pretty well:

Quote

Shield gating for players is great, shield gating for NPCs needs to go.

There's something that feels inherently bad about even low level 5 corpus crewmen sometimes taking two hits minimum to kill due to their shield gate, even when I'm hitting them with fully modded and formaed melee weapons that would shred level 50+ Grineer instantly. This also punishes using high damage per shot weapons such as sniper rifles, bows, and launchers

The constant shield regeneration on high level corpus is similarly annoying, especially when coupled with units like shield ospreys that can almost instantly replenish shields of multiple units as well as boost their regeneration rate. These factors combined make it such that ironically, the Corpus now feel tankier than Grineer in terms of EHP of equivalent units, given their ability to instantly boost their defenses. The regeneration also kills DOT based builds, simply because the DOT damage can't easily out damage the innate shield regen.

I know toxin damage still bypasses shields, and I envision having to create toxin based builds just to deal with the Corpus simply because they shields seem more annoying to remove now. But cheesing the shield mechanic still doesn't change the fact that the corpus faction overall just doesn't feel as enjoyable or rewarding to fight against.

Compared to Grineer, they now have higher damage, higher EHP, more access to knockdowns and disablers (see shockwave MOAs, Terra corpus etc.), immunity to warframe powers through Nullifiers, Bursas and Combas, immunity to DOTs due to shield regen and shield restoring units, and brief damage immunity due to shield gating. They also give less affinity per kill, and are less conducive to farming runs simply because most corpus units cannot be dismembered for Desecration purposes. It's not fun to fight Corpus in general, especially at high levels. Anecdotally, Corpus arbitrations are almost always less popular than Grineer or Infested ones simply because of all these factors.

I like most of the other changes in the update, but considering how most of the upcoming content is Corpus based, some big overhauls have to be done to the faction overall. One of these should be the removal of shield gating from NPCs completely.

I've especially noticed

• The constant shield regen, especially with Shield Ospreys is very difficult if you're not modding something to straight up bypass their defense like toxin, with slash having to eat through their shields first it's... not fun when my fully build rifle is suddenly having to expend the whole magazine to kill a level 90 Tech.
• If shieldgate is going to require 2 hits to kill an shielded enemy, then the spillover is just way too low imo. It's frustrating to have a kitted out melee all the sudden not one tapping level 17 Corpus Crewmen because 5% of its damage just isn't enough to kill it. I can't really aim for the head with a sword either. Low ROF guns are getting kind of shafted.
• Grey invuln for shield gate invuln duration. It's a good visual indicator that I thought at least Hildryn had?
• Shield gate can't be bypassed by 'skill' if there is no headshot box Why are Arbitration Drones shield gated?? Corpus Cameras??

The annoying spike in tankyness kind of reminded of Demolysts, which I've had rivened guns struggle against. Maybe you could take a look at those and get rid of some of the BS because they are ludicrously tanky for their level. Railjack too. Just change their levels to be accurate to their resilience if nothing else. And consider Orb Vallis enemies which already were DPS monsters because they could stun the hell out of you and now are harder to kill on top. Cough

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by ldegroodt115
Arbitration drones, cameras

[Somnia]

Would be nice to have an icon that indicates whether the shield gate is available.

i.e. It indicates whether you've let your shields fully recharge, at a glance. Did your shields fill to full before that chip of damage while you weren't looking? Will it gate the next heavy attack?

This is immediately useful for knowing whether it's safe to recast Revenant's mesmer skin, and Rhino's iron skin if using iron shrapnel. It may be useful for others, too. e.g. Limbo popping out of the rift to recast or banish enemies in. Perhaps it could be on the leftmost edge of the shield meter.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Scorn

[xChibix]

1 hour ago, Scorn said:

Would be nice to have an icon that indicates whether the shield gate is available.

i.e. It indicates whether you've let your shields fully recharge, at a glance. Did your shields fill to full before that chip of damage while you weren't looking? Will it gate the next heavy attack?

This is immediately useful for knowing whether it's safe to recast Revenant's mesmer skin, and Rhino's iron skin if using iron shrapnel. It may be useful for others, too. e.g. Limbo popping out of the rift to recast or banish enemies in. Perhaps it could be on the leftmost edge of the shield meter.

It would be nice to have an indicator when you will get the invulnerability when shields are broken, but the actual part of shield gate, the bleedover prevention, is present regardless of how many shields you have and whether they have fully charged or not.

Edited March 8, 2020 by xChibix