Warframe Revised: 100x Restore Blueprint Megathread

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

here's my thoughts: why are u trying to discourage spamming plates? does it hurt ur gameplay to have other players running around with near infinite energy? why ruin the game for people that like using powers?

this game isnt call of duty, its not pvp based, the places like conclave where it is, the gear wheel is disabled, and if it was meant to be a straight forward fps, it would be, and we wouldnt have powers. 

gd, get over urself, not everyone plays like u, and thats perfectly fine. u dont want to spam plates, then dont. but u dont have the right to choose how other people play or choose what the devs of the game make available to us to allow for various playstyles.

[TheLexiConArtist]

52 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

here's my thoughts: why are u trying to discourage spamming plates? does it hurt ur gameplay to have other players running around with near infinite energy? why ruin the game for people that like using powers?

this game isnt call of duty, its not pvp based, the places like conclave where it is, the gear wheel is disabled, and if it was meant to be a straight forward fps, it would be, and we wouldnt have powers. 

gd, get over urself, not everyone plays like u, and thats perfectly fine. u dont want to spam plates, then dont. but u dont have the right to choose how other people play or choose what the devs of the game make available to us to allow for various playstyles.

Mostly it's the inconsistency of having limitations and new restrictions on some energy sources, when they're not even the most freely abused ones.

It also devalues build choices and is generally unhealthy. As an example, Itzal losing its own spammable Blink only mattered in any real amount over what all wings got to replace it because restore spamming overrode the energy costs. Otherwise you just wouldn't be in the 'wing long enough to recoup costs - you'd go from point A to B then be dry of energy when you tried to progress to point C.

Since we know that Primed Streamline is considered forbidden (see when Chinaframe snuck it in briefly and had to cut it back out) then obviously they don't want energy to be too inconsequential. If you choose to go with Blind Rage and no Streamline/Fleeting, then you should have to accept the outcome of not being able to upkeep forever. Balance isn't irrelevant just because it's a PVE game, you know.

[Steel_Rook]

3 hours ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

here's my thoughts: why are u trying to discourage spamming plates? does it hurt ur gameplay to have other players running around with near infinite energy? why ruin the game for people that like using powers?

While I know this wasn't directed at me, I'd personally like to reduce player reliance on Restores for two reasons. Firstly, because it fundamentally undermines core game balance concepts like energy and to a lesser extent health. I mean, if we're going to let players just drop a bazillion pads and have functionally infinite energy, why not just GIVE players functionally infinite energy? This isn't even on the level of Zenurik Energising Dash since that, at least, has the opportunity cost of not using other Focus Trees, for what that's worth. Restores have only a resource cost. AT BEST this gates infinite energy behind a boring grind, in practice it gates infinite energy behind nothing whatsoever. Stuff like this is why I've increasingly floated the idea of just dropping Energy as a concept altogether and gating ability use behind something else. My vote would be for a combination of cooldowns and per-warframe resources of some sort. It's not going to happen, but there you go.

Secondly, because it's just dumb. When you find yourself creating 100-stack blueprints of a common item, it's time to reevaluate how that item works and whether there's merit to it. There's a reason Diablo 3 got rid of Scrolls of Identification (along with the whole Identification system), made Town Potals infinite and put potions on a cooldown rather than keeping them as an item. They did this because Diablo and Diablo 2 in particular turned into "playing the guitar" mashing the number keys to drink potions constantly in combat from the massive stack people brought with them. There comes a point where you have to take stock of your "economy of scale" and wonder if the thing you're building actually has a reason to exist.

[MBaldelli]

I'm going to only add one thing to this thread about the new 100x build restores....  

Arbitrary...  Exorbitant and more arbitrary...  While it's positive that Larges are finally going to be added to the clan dojo (and thus making the syndicate grind superfluous for those restores), the fact that you're using the materials du jour that was added with Railjack as part of the researching cost, it's pretty obvious the Ghost clan costs were set so high not for the challenge -- but instead because of the multiplicative values for the Mountain (x30) and Moon (x100) Clans.  

It also makes little to no sense that they would require the use of rare railjack-related materials when they weren't in existence when the medium restores were made available.  These mediums are also pretty much ignored as I have yet to see anyone on Random/Open Squads using any of the mediums during any of the missions.  

As the founding warlord of a Ghost Clan that's been around since you introduced clans to the game, I feel the need to simply boycott the need for building these "luxury" items until such time as saner -- not to mention logically progressing -- materials and costs are factored in.  

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

5 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

 

im going to start by saying that both of u made very valid points that i dont want to argue against or dismiss. 

that said, im going to attempt to show u my pattern of thinking on this matter. i feel like restores are necessary and add to my gameplay experience (and that of many others) for multiple reasons.

the first and biggest being that powers are a major component of what makes this game unique to me. powers are what make the frames different and unique to me. i dont play most shooters, and in fact hate most shooters. games like CoD are, imo, repetitive, pointless, horrid games that are turned out every year or two with little to no value added, no progression thats meaningful, and have no reason for existing other than being cash cows. i do indeed realize that im not speaking for everyone, or even close to a majority of people when i say that, but it is how i feel. this is a big part of why warframe appealed to me, because its not those games, and it gave u multiple ways to play. u can play it as any other shooter, u can play it as a ninja, u can play it as a power spamming void demon. in my early days of playing warframe, one of the most fun things to me was team building for long runs, finding synergy between power sets of different warframes. this also mitigated alot of the grindiness. in my opinion, many ealier attempts at limiting powers, especially at the start of fighting the 'press 4 to win' mentality, came too close to forcing the shooter aspect. granted i completely understand fighting the press 4 to win mentality, but id rather it be through power synergy, still leaving playing a power spamming void demon viable just with more nuance, technique and choice between viable builds, like what they've been trying lately. the removal of solar rail conflicts and introduction of conclave was a big scare to me. 'oh crap, they just removed something unique for the matches in literally every shooter ever' i said. the introduction of energy restores was one of the first signs that DE wasn't trying to slowly become an mmo CoD. they made it viable to use powers to kill things without having nuke power on 4, because u could give urself energy to use a combination of lower dmg output powers as needed. many other changes, like the fissure system, again returned that feeling 'oh crap, its becoming just another shooter' though not as directly, because it made more matches into 5 minute, rinse n repeat style things by removing most of the motivation and desire for most players to stay in a match longer. that change in particular also made several match types virtually identical (pick up 10 reactant, do other objective), not totally identical, but close enough to make it all feel to me like some homogeneous soup that has no unique parts, much like repetitive matches in a shooter. i would much rather hang out with my friends for hours in one or two missions while spamming powers and having a raised risk reward as we go along, than loading in to 40 different matches that all feel the same and arent challenges. again, i realize that this is very much a playstyle preference that not everyone shares, but warframe gives me that option, and restores help make it viable.

moving on, cuz that first point got far too long, i feel restores help new to medium players. its a middle ground between 'i dont have energy' and 'ive farmed a full set or two of arcane energize'. i feel like this is the demographic that restores were made for. they are still at a point at which there is a real trade off between using resources to either build restores or focus them into new gear and progression. they keep them in the game with more experienced players when things get a bit rough, where as without them, there would a bigger divide between the 'haves n havenots'

granted all of that boils down to points that you two raised, where it becomes a question of economy and game design. im open to seeing those factors changed, as long as it doesn't invalidate variety of playstyles, which i believe to be a core principle of what makes this game better than other shooters. i hope that if u read this far, u can see that while i completely agree with u on many points, i feel those aspects need to be adjusted before im ok with parting with the use of restores. hopefully u can also see why i become defensive (probably overly defensive) when people push for things that could even unintentionally reduce my option of playstyles to one more in line with 'its a shooter, should be played like all other shooters, n powers are just flair'. just to be absolutely clear, im not saying either of u, or anyone else, said anything close to those words. its just that removing or limiting restores could lead down that road if the underlying reasons i stated for having them dont get addressed as well.

Edited March 7, 2020 by (XB1)ashes of suvius
spelling n grammer

[Steel_Rook]

59 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

u can play it as any other shooter, u can play it as a ninja, u can play it as a power spamming void demon. in my early days of playing warframe, one of the most fun things to me was team building for long runs, finding synergy between power sets of different warframes. this also mitigated alot of the grindiness. in my opinion, many ealier attempts at limiting powers, especially at the start of fighting the 'press 4 to win' mentality, came too close to forcing the shooter aspect. granted i completely understand fighting the press 4 to win mentality, but id rather it be through power synergy, still leaving playing a power spamming void demon viable just with more nuance, technique and choice between viable builds, like what they've been trying lately.

That's a fair point, and I don't actually disagree with you. I don't actually have an issue with spamming abilities. You may have seen me suggest this in the past, but I'm of the opinion that every Warframe ought to have its own "Exalted Weapon," where the spammable abilities could go. The likes of Excalibur and Mesa already do, but the likes of Atlas and Ember really don't. Imagine a game where Ember could hit, say, her 1 key and "equip" her fireball ability as a weapon, allowing her to hurl Fireballs like throwing knives, charge her fireballs like a bow and even potentially use some kind of secondary fire ability in the spirit of the Corinth's Air Burst grenade. We can kinda-sorta do that already by just spamming the 1 key, but that's awkward from a keybinds perspective and we already have combat controls on the mouse for that. I'm fine with spamming abilities as long as that's not ALL abilities, and as long as it's controlled by some kind of sane system.

Moreover, my issue with energy is actually the opposite. I don't believe we need to have "less energy" as a means of gating ability use more. On the contrary, I personally see our "generic MMO mana bar" as an entirely anti-fun mechanic specifically because it exists solely to prevent us from using abilities too frequently. The reason I bring up cooldowns is because I feel that abilities like what we have on our Warframes work better as "force multipliers" rather than as something that consumes all of our uptime, Exalted Weapons notwithstanding. Now granted, a lot of my reasons for saying this are games like Overwatch, The Division and to an extent Payday which may be the sort of game you don't like. However, I feels that games "with abilities" tend to work best when the player is using standard combat mechanics most of the time, and abilities only occasionally when the situation is right for them. Mind you" standard combat mechanics" doesn't necessarily have to mean "guns." Even Overwatch has a number of heroes whose primary weapon IS an ability. Sigma in particular manifests and fires miniature black holes on left click and manifests a physical barrier on right click. We can do the same in Warframe by extending Exalted Weapons to everyone who doesn't have them, not even necessarily as an "ultimate" but just as an alternate Warframe-specific "weapon" choice, just so we could spam abilities.

My central criticism of Restores is that they feel like a cheap patch onto a system in disarray. Energy doesn't serve its limiter function in Warframe. Rather, the game's balance assumes that we're going to have infinite energy and simply tasks us with finding a way to achieve that. At that point, why even have Energy in the first place? If it's not going to be a serious limiting factor, why does it need to be a factor at all? If we're finding ourselves building and using hundreds of consumables solely to optimise energy out of the game... Are we not kind of already there?

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

moving on, cuz that first point got far too long, i feel restores help new to medium players. its a middle ground between 'i dont have energy' and 'ive farmed a full set or two of arcane energize'. i feel like this is the demographic that restores were made for. they are still at a point at which there is a real trade off between using resources to either build restores or focus them into new gear and progression. they keep them in the game with more experienced players when things get a bit rough, where as without them, there would a bigger divide between the 'haves n havenots'

My anecdotal experience suggests the opposite. I still remember my struggle trying to achieve sustainable energy as a new player, and I distinctly remember flatout running out of Polymer Bundles to the point of being unable to craft any Energy Restores. Getting more Bundles would have required running missions on Earth, which for me at the time were well below the level of my gear and would have felt like grinding for the sake of grinding. I somewhat got around this by... Well, shelling out real money, getting myself a Distilling Extractor Prime and dropping those on Earth all of the time. In the end, what "fixed" my issue with Restores wasn't getting more resources or "getting gud," but rather playing Inaros with whom I rarely use abilities altogether. I simply stopped using Energy Restores, stopped burning Bundles on crafting and that allowed them to add up from Extractors, to the point I'm sitting on I think hundreds of thousands of them now.

I don't necessarily disagree that Restores are a good fallback for newbies or Warframes whose builds aren't great for energy. I've used them quite a bit on my Frost as I don't run Zenurik and don't have anything for energy on him. If I lose my bubble too many times, I end up having to pop a Restore or two. The problem is that gating consumables by resources benefits veterans who already have stockpiles of these resources far more than it benefits newbies. And even for veterans, that only works for resources we amass passively by playing the game. But think about the following: How many times have you used a Health Restore? Not a Squad Health Restore - this one, that only heals you. In over two years, I think I've used a grand total of one, because I'll be dead before I waste my time photographing plants on Earth ON A #*!%ING FOUR HOUR DAY/NIGHT TIMER. Ain't nobody got time for that.

I personally felt that Diablo 3's approach to this was superior. You have access to the largest health potion for your particular level, you have access to an infinite amount of them, but drinking from that puts it on a timer. You don't have to farm for gold to buy potions, you don't have to manage a potion inventory, you just have a button you press that tops you up. I've similarly brought up City of Heroes and its "Rest" ability that players could trigger out of combat to fill their health and energy equivalents back to full. That had a number of other balance concerns, mainly being interrupted by enemy damage, of course. My point is that if you want to help newbies, a reliable source of energy that doesn't dock them resources they're going to need for building weapons and Warframes would be much more appropriate. I mean, imagine Restores becoming infinite but being slapped with, say, a 30-second cooldown per use. That sort of thing.

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

granted all of that boils down to points that you two raised, where it becomes a question of economy and game design. im open to seeing those factors changed, as long as it doesn't invalidate variety of playstyles, which i believe to be a core principle of what makes this game better than other shooters. i hope that if u read this far, u can see that while i completely agree with u on many points, i feel those aspects need to be adjusted before im ok with parting with the use of restores.

Understood and no worries. I don't think any of what we're saying here is likely to actually happen. Hypothetically, though, what do you think of my proposed compromise of turning "spam abilities" into straight-up exalted weapons and using the game's combat mechanics to wield them? Would that be enough ability use by your measure?

 

And now for something completely different:

3 hours ago, MBaldelli said:

It also makes little to no sense that they would require the use of rare railjack-related materials when they weren't in existence when the medium restores were made available.  These mediums are also pretty much ignored as I have yet to see anyone on Random/Open Squads using any of the mediums during any of the missions.  

Yeah, there's that too. DE have a bad habit of bottlenecking EVERY #*!%ING NEW THING through whatever newest content island is. OK, we just released Fortuna, so... Every new Warframe and weapon and cosmetic and system will be locked behind Fortuna. Want to use your Archgun on the ground? Get to Rank 5 with Solaris United, because we said so! OK, now we released the new Juptier stuff, so obviously everything we release is going to cost Hexenon for the next few months, and also probably drop from Disruption. Now we have Railjack, so of course new weapons and quests and even #*!%ing RESTORES are going to either cost or involve Railjack. Hey, you want to get your Arcanes to Rank 5? Hold up, we have a RAILJACK Event in the works. Railjack Railjack, Railjack. Railjack? Railjack, Railjack!

No, there's no reason the Restores needed to cost Railjack components, other than they're being coincidentally released now. If they were released last year, they'd have cost either Hexenon or Toroids.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

29 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Yeah, there's that too. DE have a bad habit of bottlenecking EVERY #*!%ING NEW THING through whatever newest content island is. OK, we just released Fortuna, so... Every new Warframe and weapon and cosmetic and system will be locked behind Fortuna. Want to use your Archgun on the ground? Get to Rank 5 with Solaris United, because we said so! OK, now we released the new Juptier stuff, so obviously everything we release is going to cost Hexenon for the next few months, and also probably drop from Disruption. Now we have Railjack, so of course new weapons and quests and even #*!%ing RESTORES are going to either cost or involve Railjack. Hey, you want to get your Arcanes to Rank 5? Hold up, we have a RAILJACK Event in the works. Railjack Railjack, Railjack. Railjack? Railjack, Railjack!

No, there's no reason the Restores needed to cost Railjack components, other than they're being coincidentally released now. If they were released last year, they'd have cost either Hexenon or Toroids.

ill comment on the rest of ur post after i get some sleep, as i want to answer thoroughly, but you made some very valid points and put forth very interesting ideas. ember fireball exalted weapon? shut up n take my money! lol

as far as resources costs, i normally would 100% agree with u, and yes, DE does this all the effin time, but i feel like they actually made some good effort in dispersing the new resources this time. ive seen pustrels from mining on the plains, ive seen the cubic diodes from corpus missions, carbides from grineer, copernics from the void (and i believe orb vallis as well) so for the first time in history, i dont think that including them in all the new blueprints and research is bs. i actually think they did that well this time.

Edited March 7, 2020 by (XB1)ashes of suvius
phrasing

[Steel_Rook]

55 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

as far as resources costs, i normally would 100% agree with u, and yes, DE does this all the effin time, but i feel like they actually made some good effort in dispersing the new resources this time. ive seen pustrels from mining on the plains, ive seen the cubic diodes from corpus missions, carbides from grineer, copernics from the void (and i believe orb vallis as well) so for the first time in history, i dont think that including them in all the new blueprints and research is bs. i actually think they did that well this time.

Right, but that's less an attempt to integrated Railjack resources into the rest of the game and seemingly the only way DE had of releasing the initial Railjack build quest without just letting veterans buy the new stuff straight away. Carbides, Diodes, Pustrels and Copernics (the "basic Railjack crafting resources") don't really drop in the rest of the game at anything near a useful amount. MAYBE you could restock your Payload supplies if you put forth a bit of grind, but the amounts in which these things drop in missions simply eclipse anything you can get from the rest of the game. What's worse is these things now clutter the drop tables, so going mining on the Plains of Eidolon, for instance, is going to send you home with an amount of Pustrels that you can't do much of anything with, but which still displaced what could have been a substantial amount of actual Cetus resources. Recently, there was a thread where people requested that these resources simply be taken out of the regular game's drop tables and their resource costs taken out of the Railjack creation quest, which isn't entirely unrealistic.

Worse, the Restore recipes cost more than just the "basic Railjack crafting resources." They also cost a lot of pure Railjack resources, and high-level ones found only in Veil Proxima, as well. Now granted, I haven't been grinding Railjack very hard since it came out. I have a ship that's about set up for Saturn Proxima. I don't have enough resources to start even a single 100x Restore project. I have a friend who's played a lot of Railjack in my Clan. I asked him if he could fund those, and he refused. He doesn't feel those restores are "very useful." So as of right now, we're not researching them. That's not to say "Woe is me, reduce the costs FOR ME." Rather, I'm saying that the resource costs DE picked for Restores pretty much require you to play Railjack missions at a fairly high level... At a time when Railjack is honestly heavily underdeveloped.

Outside of the 550 Mutagen Samples, the costs aren't "that bad." My complaint was more that DE will tie new items to whatever is the latest content release even when it makes no sense for those things to be related. That's a problem because they tend to release content as islands and then use exclusive rewards to push us into playing it over extrinsic rewards, rather than releasing something we intrinsically just want to play. It is a tangent, however, so I don't want to derail any further.

[MobyTheDuck]

Why the hell the Health restore costs that many Mutagen Samples when you guys refuse to fix the Mutagen sample drops?

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I logged on for the second time since the dev stream where you announced all the "rebalancing" that looked like a lot of nerfs.  Mostly so I wouldn't miss the armor set, if I ever wanted to play again.  FOMO.  That's how these games keep you around.  Keeping up with the Jones's.  In the 5 minutes I was online, someone in my alliance said that you added more mutagen sample BS to the clan research.

You screwed us on Hema research cost and refuse to fix it.  You screwed us on mutagen sample drop rate and location and refuse to fix it.  I finally got the Hema research done despite your BS (with the help of my clan and even traded some materials to another clan in my alliance for samples.) and you add hundreds more.  Hours of grinding back in the #*!%ing derelict.  I have thousands upon thousands of the other faction materials because they drop appropriately and yet the Hema by itself takes more of its faction material than ALL the faction mats for either the chem lab or the energy lab.  It's less than 4k faction materials to research every single item in either the energy lab OR the chem lab.  It's less than 7k fieldron/detonite to research both of those labs in their entirety.  It's 5k just for the hema for the smallest clan size.  And you want to add a cost for hundreds more.  The amount of samples required for just the 100x BP is equal to the entire research cost for mutagen samples for the whole bio lab minus the Hema.  I just finished that lab off.  I thought it was over.  "If I do start playing again, at least that's done."  I have no Mutagen Samples left after that heinous garbage.  Thankfully, I also have zero will to play after all the things you've done in the last 6 months and it's things like this that only reinforce that position.  I really did used to like this game.

EDIT:  Looking through the rest of the thread, you'll notice I'm not complaining about any other resources.  I've looked over the costs.  Other than mutagen, I'll be fine.  That's how many resources I have stockpiled.  I built my railjack outright, only needing to farm the new resources and did so at the old cost.  I have THAT much of every other resource and I have maybe 10 mutagen samples after finally finishing the goddamn Hema research.  Because they have 2 drop locations and barely drop in those locations even with both boosters on with a Nekros and Smeeta.  There is such an infuriating disparity with this resource it's absurd.

Edited March 8, 2020 by (XB1)TehChubbyDugan

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2020-03-06 at 5:17 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

You should be heavily dissuading spam of restores, not enabling them with bigger build packs.

 

If you see Arcane Energise as enough of a problem to nerf it, and see energy generation enough of a questionable factor to disable several types during channelled abilities (and regen during other drains - looking at you, parasite eximi) then you should remember Energy Restore spam circumvents ALL of these limitations. 

No, it's not 'good enough' that it's a resource-costing consumable. If I could make a consumable that auto-completes a mission, it wouldn't matter if each one costs me a pittance of resources, would it? Restore abuse has a similar effect, making it completely different - and in a far more freely accessible way than legendary-rarity Arcanes, restricting a grind-earned Focus school, or demanding pocket Trinities in every mission.

Restores should be used sparingly, or last-resort options, not just used as a completely overriding crutch.

DE is far, FAR more concerned with trying to whittle away at high level player's resource stockpiles than they are concerned with balance or common sense or decency.  To them, releasing a handful of new weapons is content, but only insomuch as you're supposed to have to grind for the resources to build them.  Grinding is time, time is engagement, engagement is content.  Resource stockpiles negate grind and therefore increase content drought.  That's why we keep getting more new resources over and over that eventually just become dead in the water.  New resources mean no stockpiles mean grind mean engagement mean content.  Nevermind how many new players get utterly gaped out by things like Hema and Sibear and Vauban Prime.  What matters is bleeding those stockpiles.

Continuously useful, craftable items like restores mean a steady bleed on stockpiles.  They WANT us to spam them.  Making them ever more accessible by letting you build more at once removes part of the mental block to using them, and bleeds ever so slightly more resources, which ever so slightly increases how much time you spend collecting resources, which increases engagement by just that much more.

Call me a tin foil hat all you want, it's still the truth.  Engagement numbers are all any multiplayer game dev cares about these days.

[CrustySockPuppet]

Yeah, this is all great and I know this is gonna be off-topic, but can we get a reduction on the Hema's Research's Mutagen Sample cost? Like, a serious reduction? There is no reason whatsoever that it should take hours upon hours of efficient farming for a single, unremarkable weapon, especially when other somewhat expensive weapons to research (like Lenz, Ferrox, and Javlok) all that far less of their respective sample resource? The fact that new clans now have to farm for even more mutagen samples because of the 100x Health Restore doesn't help with the already excessive and arbitrary need for mutagen samples created by the Hema's research.

The joke has run its course. It wasn't funny back then. It's not funny now. Please reduce the Mutagen Sample cost of the Hema to 1k to be in line with the other uber expensive researches (if not that because it's the only expensive Infested weapon, at least reduce it to 2k. Please?).

 

[Voltage]

 As of Update 15.7:

Quote

Changes:

• Players can no longer sell Large Restore Blueprints of any variety for credits.

However, with the introduction of 100x Large Squad Restores, it would be awesome if I could sell the now obsolete 10x Large Squad Restore blueprints that I own from Syndicate offerings. I wish to remove them from my inventory to clean up the Foundry.

Inventory:

Foundry Clutter:

I hope the change from Update 15.7 could be reverted to allow players to discard of these once they can afford the 100x Large Squad Restores from a clan which has completed the research. Thanks!

Edited March 8, 2020 by Voltage

[TPtv]

Health Restore, Energy Restore, Ammo Restore, and Shield Restore require rework.

They require 30 seconds for maximum recovery. But waiting for this time is too inefficient.

Rather than dividing into four, you should rework them to recover them all at once.

[squako]

Just thought I'd add but how come the large and small restores restore X amount every 7.5s but the medium pads restore every 5s?

[Drago55577]

I like this change but I think they could've used extra resources, specifically the ones we have tens of millions of. Polymer is a high demand resource and I burn through it using energy restores, which is fine. I earn to get a benefit.

Maybe change ammo restores to use a large amount of alloy, because metal = bullets.

But alloy, spores etc. They just have no sinks. 

Fully agree with what the guy said above about reducing our stockpiles. I'd love to see limited use ammunition that requires crafting for some weapons. Alternative ammo types, railjack is the only implementation of crafting ammo but I think it could be expanded to the rest of the game to hit our resource stores

Edited March 11, 2020 by Drago55577

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Large Health Restore x100 is too high. I solo funded the entirety of all the new ones out of pocket because the rest of my clan stopped playing without me noticing, except the health restores. Those resources I barely have any of.

[Zoh_Veldae]

Meh, I guess.

Congratulations on doing something you should have already done!

Also, congratulations on further highlighting how ridiculous the high dojo research costs of Mutagen Samples are to the actual supply players are able to acquire efficiently.

[Guest]

We're at 6,000/15,000 mutagen samples for the Hema.
2 years after I joined the clan.
Mostly, because I've been spending hours, solo-grinding them in the derelict.

Spoiler

Why have I not searched for a new clan?
One word: loyalty.
Thanks to the clan, I am where I am today.
Without, I'd still be struggling.

This is what my current life now looks like.
And these samples come mostly from me now.

Spoiler

After wasting an eternity of my 'unlife', I had gotten tired of this.

Now the health x100 blueprint arrives, and requires an additional 1,650

So my question is
Will mutagen samples, now finally get an increase in drops somewhere?

[Drago55577]

1 hour ago, AegisAmaranth said:

We're at 6,000/15,000 mutagen samples for the Hema.
2 years after I joined the clan.
Mostly, because I've been spending hours, solo-grinding them in the derelict.

  Hide contents

Why have I not searched for a new clan?
One word: loyalty.
Thanks to the clan, I am where I am today.
Without, I'd still be struggling.

This is what my current life now looks like.
And these samples come mostly from me now.

  Reveal hidden contents

After wasting an eternity of my 'unlife', I had gotten tired of this.

Now the health x100 blueprint arrives, and requires an additional 1,650

So my question is
Will mutagen samples, now finally get an increase in drops somewhere?

Why would they balance it around someone solo farming in a non solo clan? I solo funded the hema in one clan for 5000 and had samples left to fund it in another clan I later moved to.

The costs are fine if people actually contribute, they're balanced towards the size of the clan, not one person farming in a clan. If your clanmates don't contribute, that's your problem. 

It's really easy to get the hema with a coordinated effort from the clan.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Drago55577 said:

Why would they balance it around someone solo farming in a non solo clan? I solo funded the hema in one clan for 5000 and had samples left to fund it in another clan I later moved to.

The costs are fine if people actually contribute, they're balanced towards the size of the clan, not one person farming in a clan. If your clanmates don't contribute, that's your problem. 

It's really easy to get the hema with a coordinated effort from the clan.

You have taken a look at the clan's activity?

I have asked multiple times, to gather, and concentrate on this.
Several years later, we're still here.
And this is 1 person, having to grind 3x the ammount.

Off course they don't have to.
I at least expect some research, and maybe a bit of humanity.
Understanding is also welcome.

Rather that, than bragging rights.

[Drago55577]

1 minute ago, AegisAmaranth said:

You have taken a look at the clan's activity?

I have asked multiple times, to gather, and concentrate on this.
Several years later, we're still here.
And this is 1 person, having to grind 3x the ammount.

Off course they don't have to.
I at least expect some research, and maybe a bit of humanity.
Understanding is also welcome.

Rather that, than bragging rights.

Well, your clan not contributing is strictly not DEs problem. That's a problem with your clan. Change clans if you don't like it.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Drago55577

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

4 hours ago, Drago55577 said:

Why would they balance it around someone solo farming in a non solo clan? I solo funded the hema in one clan for 5000 and had samples left to fund it in another clan I later moved to.

The costs are fine if people actually contribute, they're balanced towards the size of the clan, not one person farming in a clan. If your clanmates don't contribute, that's your problem. 

It's really easy to get the hema with a coordinated effort from the clan.

I’m literally the only person left in my clan. How am I supposed to coordinate effort if there’s no one else? And it’s a ghost clan so.

[Drago55577]

26 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I’m literally the only person left in my clan. How am I supposed to coordinate effort if there’s no one else? And it’s a ghost clan so.

A ghost clan is significantly easier than his shadow clan. All I can say is recruit people or join an existing clan. They're not meant to be solo ventures.

[Drago55577]

28 minutes ago, Ghostiepoofie said:

From what I've been reading so far.
And the zealous way, in which you fight everyone.

I'd say: You're the type of guy, that's of the mentality:
'I did it, so everyone gets to do it.'

It is that mentally, which prevents warframe from growing any further.
Maybe we should implement all the old stuff again?
Add stamina again.
Because you had to go through it, now everyone has to.

This is warframe: reviewed, revised.
Maybe a good moment, for a change, don't you think?

Scroll up, read the others too.
There's more than just 1 or 2 people.
There was 'degrindification' in nightwave.
But this mutagen thing, you're okay with.
Because you went through it, The world has to suffer and burn all around you too.

All I see you do, is attempt to dominate, and intimidate people.
To enforce your way.
No degrindification, but the opposite.
Because your life, just ends up revolving just, as one can only wish for.

Hmm, lovely mindset.

Reminds me of the Orokin.

Warframe is changing.
Let us scope on this subject too.
For it's been far too long, this is going on.

Maybe respond to something someone said next time. 

To reiterate. 

Clans are not solo. The Hema/health restores are balanced around not being solo. A 30 member clan is not meant to have research done by a solo player.

You cannot expect DE to balance research in a 30 man clan around a solo player.

If not being able to solo a 30+ man clan is an issue, downgrade to ghost or join a clan of people who care to contribute.

Any clan with active members can get it done in a few days.