Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread

[shut]

Phantasma, Phage, and other Beam Shotguns don't benefit from Multishot in terms of Status proc rate. Nerfing them was unnecessary.

Both Phantasma (5 multishot, 12.0 firerate) and Phage (7 multishot, 12.0 firerate), along with every other "beam shotgun", will only tick at their listed fire rate no matter how many of their beams touch the enemy. If multiple beams touch, it's simply the damage per tick that goes up instead-- the tick rate (and thus, the maximum proc rate) is exactly the same as a 1-beam weapon of the same fire rate.

e.g.:

• A Synapse (1 multishot, 12.0 firerate) can proc up to 12.0 times per second.
• A Phantasma with unrealistically overpowered multishot mods (99999999 multishot, 12.0 firerate) can proc up to 12.0 times per second.
• A Boar Prime with unrealistically overpowered multishot mods (99999999 multishot, 4.67 firerate) can proc up to 466,999,995.3 times per second.

 

^ Goofy example, but you see my point. Beam shotguns behave like regular beam weapons in terms of Multishot affecting procs. The Phantasma and Phage got nerfed in this update, when they shouldn't have been touched at all.

[Tiberris]

Please revert status procing and corrosive especially for shotguns. Back then I would kill a lvl 160 eximus gunners in 1-3 seconds with the phage and now I am taking a lot longer against a lvl 50-60 non-eximus lancer. The new UI is also not good when using the arsenal. Moving multishot into its own line was fine so you wouldn't get confused with status and actual damage but now it looks like a mess. These status changes are really killing the game for me.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Tiberris

[CopperBezel]

Please God no, do not revert any of the arsenal changes, every single one was an absolute necessity. We actually know what our guns do now.

---

I'm just going to throw another donut in the box for nerfing the new Viral. It's kind of absurd. I just ran today's Jackal sortie with the ostensibly nerfed Staticor. The poor thing didn't have time to take a shot between downings. 

Doing +50% damage on initial proc, +15% for each after for +185% total would be sufficient. That'd be the equivalent of reducing health to 66.7% initially, 35% finally, which would be a fair trade against Corrosive right now reducing armor (and only armor) to 75% initially and 20% finally. Especially for an element with a damage type that is ignoring 75% of armor on all Grineer, not just Ferrite.

Nerfing Corrosive alongside nerfing Grineer armor was a sensible change and their TTK hasn't been as drastically reduced, but Viral not only stayed the same against Grineer, but gained the only remaining benefit Corrosive still has against them, while multiplying damage on the other factions as completely as Corrosive strips armor. I mean, a full stack of Viral procs is effectively reducing their health to 23.5%. That's barely any less than the reduction to just over 20% eHP that Corrosive does on high armor targets, and it's more frontloaded. = /

Edited March 9, 2020 by CopperBezel

[Drago55577]

4 hours ago, Gailus said:

Aside from the knee-jerk reaction of not wanting the hilarious and overpowered jank of 100% status shotguns to go away, I feel like most of them are a lot better off than before.

My Tigris build needs to change, but the 100% status builds weren't as different from how they are now as people think they were. Having 100% status didn't mean the same thing as having 100% meaningful proc chance. Every pellet had a chance to be Puncture or Viral, and the old weighting made any of the non-slash weighted shotguns much less useful.

I much prefer how now I don't feel disappointed to see five Viral procs show up.

I don't think you understand the point. It's that shotguns are worse than a comparitive single shot weapon.

We can simplify a gun into what it really is. A function of volume of fire over time (bullets per second), and a function of damage over time (damage per second). For the amount of procs you get, all that matters is your volume of fire.

This means that over a given period of time, the distribution of procs for a shotgun and a rifle with similar stats, will be similar. Which is relevant only for viral, corrosive, magnetic etc. (Stacking statuses with non-scaling bonuses)

This changes for damage statuses. Status chance and damage over time are the only variables that affect damage statuses. Not your amount of bullets. Your effectiveness with damage statuses is a function of your damage over time and your status chance, nothing else. 

i.e people trying to justify this shotgun nerf have failed to have a basic understanding of math and the mechanics behind these weapons.

They are not different anymore. They should not be treated differently. Shotguns don't need arbitrarily different status because now they follow the exact same formula other weapons do, linear status chance. It's not a knee jerk reaction, it's simply fact that they shouldn't be different.

 

Also, another thing. Weighting weapons towards viral is bad because it reduces the amount of procs that don't have caps.

EDIT: It also killed beam shotguns because they only hit once no matter how many beams contact.

EDIT 2: Also, this would have easily not been an issue if they just didn't touch status chance. Their previous status chances should be their current status chance. Dividing by pellets was unnecessary due to above explanation, it's basically like dividing a rifles status chance by it's firerate arbitrarily, since they're basically the same stat. More bullets.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Drago55577

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

EDIT: It also killed beam shotguns because they only hit once no matter how many beams contact.

Hybrid Corrosive/Heat/Viral Phage destroys level 140 Gokstad Officers (consider that they are bullet sponges!). I still hate Phage though...

I'm currently working on a Convectrix build to see how good/bad it is... But Phage absolutely destroys stuff still!

Phantasma is garbage for sure. It can't be built like a hybrid.

[Drago55577]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

Hybrid Corrosive/Heat/Viral Phage destroys level 140 Gokstad Officers (consider that they are bullet sponges!). I still hate Phage though...

I'm currently working on a Convectrix build to see how good/bad it is... But Phage absolutely destroys stuff still!

Phantasma is garbage for sure. It can't be built like a hybrid.

Yeah, that's nothing dude. Especially not after scaling changes. I took my weapons up against level 300+ grineer and they still worked. Sure, it still works, but that's not the point here. It's that it was nerfed for no reason at, and subject to an arbitrary change for strictly wrong reasons, despite being a mediocre gun at best. While all guns are mediocre compared to properly modded melee.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Drago55577

[nslay]

2 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

Yeah, that's nothing dude. Especially not after scaling changes. I took my weapons up against level 300+ grineer and they still worked. Sure, it still works, but that's not the point here. It's that it was nerfed for no reason at, and subject to an arbitrary change for strictly wrong reasons, despite being a mediocre gun at best. While all guns are mediocre compared to properly modded melee.

Phage is comparable to Kuva Chakkhurr in time-to-kill against Gokstad Officer.

So no, Phage is still very potent. Phantasma is done for sure... Phage and probably Convectrix are still very powerful. You just need to leverage crit now! Not just status...

[Drago55577]

Just now, nslay said:

Phage is comparable to Kuva Chakkhurr in time-to-kill against Gokstad Officer.

So no, Phage is still very potent. Phantasma is done for sure... Phage and probably Convectrix are still very powerful. You just need to leverage crit now! Not just status...

Again, totally missing the point. None of that has anything to do with what I said.

[nslay]

Just now, Drago55577 said:

Again, totally missing the point. None of that has anything to do with what I said.

This is what you said below. It's not accurate.

21 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

EDIT: It also killed beam shotguns because they only hit once no matter how many beams contact.

Kuva Chakkhurr is a single shot gun (probably the most powerful single shot gun you can find). Phage matches that gun in efficiency (time-to-kill) against the most armored non-boss enemy in the game (even after scaling changes)... Less than one magazine with no Riven. It also matches Kuva Kohm which can also down a level 140 Gokstad Officer in less than 1 magazine.

Now, what did you mean by beams "hit once"? Because the Phage still seems to proc status per beam as you hold the trigger. I mean, I was getting multiple procs at a time... Status is relatively very low on a hybrid build, so that must be the multiple beams doing that? I can make a video when I get home if you'd like!

I spent some formas on Phage to test a beam shotgun in RRR. I expected a dud and I was pleasantly surprised. Still a waste of forma considering Phage is not fun to use. But you're wrong about beam shotguns being killed... And I am pretty sure you're wrong about the beams if I understood you correctly. I will tell you it's no fun to rank and use them. Phage felt very weak until mostly forma'd and modded.

Now Convectrix is feeling likd a dud (and it has very high status since it has 2 beams)... Yikes. Maybe it just needs 6 forma and all the right mods.

I'm not defending RRR's changes to shotguns. They've really nerfed almost all shotguns (all but 4 could reach 100% status with normal mods!)... but the stackable status effects and hybrid builds seem to make up for it to an extent. That said, only high crit/high status shotguns seem to be the options now... so there are fewer shotguns worth using now. That's less build diversity in that respect!

 

[Drago55577]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

Stuff

 

If what you say is true I'd like you to confirm it, as far as I can tell from what others are saying and personal testing this isn't the case. I'm not in a position to retest. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. 

But in any case the main focus was the information about status, damage and volume of fire, not the phage, and the more we talk about the phage the more buried this becomes.

 

But yes, the new changes are nearly strictly crit and melee buffs, with very few status weapons not being rendered less powerful. Part of this is due to how the damage statuses aren't weighted higher than non damage when they should be, like slash used to be.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Drago55577

[nslay]

Just now, Drago55577 said:

If what you say is true I'd like you to confirm it, as far as I can tell from what others are saying and personal testing this isn't the case. I'm not in a position to retest. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. 

But in any case the main focus was the information about status, damage and volume of fire, not the phage, and the more we talk about the phage the more buried this becomes.

Sure. But Phantasma and probably Convectrix are horrible now (it really feels horrible!)... I'm slogging through Convectrix ranking. I can play like 1 mission with that god awful gun before I want to take a break. Phage was awful to play with too. Thank god for the affinity bonus weekend!

With regard to status effects over volume of fire... I think the workaround is that you'll want to mod your shotguns to apply capped stackable status effects (Viral/Heat/Corrosive) to compensate for shotguns' inability to consistently dish out status procs. Depending on shotgun, you can let Hunter Munitions provide the infinitely stackable Slash. For example, put a Chilling Grasp on a Toxin Kuva Kohm and it will quickly apply 10 Viral status procs no problem (it won't dish out much Slash from status alone though)... mod it for Crit/HM and voila, much better.

I'm annoyed that DE did not do what they said they would do. They said they would triple the base pellet status chance. They actually tripled a different quantity and called it "pellet status chance." That quantity underestimates the real per-pellet status chance... So not only have they nerfed the status shotguns, they also replaced per-pellet status chance with something worse than it should be (e.g. Strun Wraith is listed as 12% ... which is 3*40%/10 ... and not 15% ~ 3*(1 - (1-0.4)^(1/10))).

[Drago55577]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

Sure. But Phantasma and probably Convectrix are horrible now (it really feels horrible!)... I'm slogging through Convectrix ranking. I can play like 1 mission with that god awful gun before I want to take a break. Phage was awful to play with too. Thank god for the affinity bonus weekend!

With regard to status effects over volume of fire... I think the workaround is that you'll want to mod your shotguns to apply capped stackable status effects (Viral/Heat/Corrosive) to compensate for shotguns' inability to consistently dish out status procs. Depending on shotgun, you can let Hunter Munitions provide the infinitely stackable Slash. For example, put a Chilling Grasp on a Toxin Kuva Kohm and it will quickly apply 10 Viral status procs no problem (it won't dish out much Slash from status alone though)... mod it for Crit/HM and voila, much better.

I'm annoyed that DE did not do what they said they would do. They said they would triple the base pellet status chance. They actually tripled a different quantity and called it "pellet status chance." That quantity underestimates the real per-pellet status chance... So not only have they nerfed the status shotguns, they also replaced per-pellet status chance with something worse than it should be (e.g. Strun Wraith is listed as 12% ... which is 3*40%/10 ... and not 15% ~ 3*(1 - (1-0.4)^(1/10))).

The fact they're capped make them inferior on status weapons like the Tigris Prime. The change needs to be, well, changed to stop valuing low status chance weapons like crit guns. I've already said everything relevant in my original post anyway.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Drago55577

[Zalabim]

On 2020-03-05 at 9:27 AM, VhwatGoes said:

The beam shotguns also show a scaling multishot value when modded, when their pellet count is actually fixed and only damage scales.

Says it fairly clearly. Way back when beam weapons went to normal status calculation instead of status%/second, it was said that multishot would not cause additional status, and beam status would be monitored for if it needs changes. With changes already being made to the rest of the status system, it seems like a good time to apply multishot for beams' status procs as well.

----------------------------

Electric proc seems like just better gas proc right now, but they both have a problem shared with Ember's Inferno rings. The statuses will deal no further damage after the target dies, so any enemy that's killed by the initial hit won't cause much, if any, area damage. It'd be really nice to keep these target-centered area effects running for some time after the target becomes a corpse.

[shut]

3 hours ago, nslay said:

 

Now, what did you mean by beams "hit once"? Because the Phage still seems to proc status per beam as you hold the trigger. I mean, I was getting multiple procs at a time... Status is relatively very low on a hybrid build, so that must be the multiple beams doing that? I can make a video when I get home if you'd like!

 

 

If your phage is actually behaving this way, then please do!

The behaviour you're describing for Phage/Phantasma sounds nothing like what I've seen from my own testing; I've only been getting one tick (i.e. one chance at a Status proc) per fire rate no matter how many beams are touching, and no matter how much Multishot I slap on.

Edited March 9, 2020 by SortaRandom

[S0b3rt00th]

Greater than 100% Status having meaning:

>100% status multi-proccing is a good idea in theory but very few ranged weapons benefit from this change. What this really did was make Weeping Wounds near as ridiculously over the top as Bloodrush is, pushing melee even further into nonsense territory. The perceived issue is only because of WW, the change itself is good even if rarely relevant otherwise.

The new display of status chance per bullet is vastly superior to what we had before the revision. But while status/pellet is definitely the way shotguns need to be balanced from now on, 100% status shotguns definitely took a hard hit to their relative desirability. Several reasons for that: they apply about 3* less status procs than they did before, the status procs possible to build for that were the most valuable to stack are now less desirable (Corrosive and Gas), elemental procs 4* more likely than before severely impacts the slash based shotguns (ex: Tigris P., Exergis, etc...) although it is better for the rest.

Critical orientated shotguns like Corinth and Vaykor Hek seem to be well off with the changes, being able to more-or-less maintain 10 stacks of Corrosive(+some Heat) or Viral with at most one 60/60 mod.

Stacking Status Effects:

Slash: almost as good as before but less accessible because it's not weighted 4* more heavily than elementals for status procs. The most valuable proc to stack heavily against grineer and still desirable against the rest even if it doesn't bypass shields.

Impact: dreadful. Was already terrible before to the point where a -x% Impact riven would be sought out... Somehow made worse now. Already announced to be under revision and that's great to hear. Damage type isn't desirable either.

Puncture: irrelevant and somehow worse than before, but at least it's not Impact. (ctrl+c) Damage type somewhat less mediocre since 100% armor strip not available anymore without Warframe abilities.

Cold: irrelevant and somehow worse than before, but at least it's not Impact. Only place where the damage type is(was?) build for is Eidolons with Chroma because the straight damage mod is primed and the positive multiplier on Alloy Armor.

Heat: with the (somewhat deserved but not to that extend) murder of Gas procs, it went up in relative desirability even without any changes. Fairly desirable to begin with anyway since the Ember rework. The panic animation is annoying but it gets a pass for not knocking down and adding relevant dps. One of the few procs worth stacking heavily and a good damage type.

Toxin: still almost as good as before, but relatively more desirable since it's not almost invalidated by Gas anymore and it's not getting it's job stolen by slash procs. Being able to heavily stack this is desirable, even if it doesn't get it's bonus against Ferrite anymore.

Electric: irrelevant, but at least it's not Impact. Really struggling to see the added damage procs, not worth building for IMO.

Blast: irrelevant, but at least it's not Impact. Not worth building for because of the undesirable proc and damage type. The only reason it was used was because it wasn't possible to get most status shotguns to 100% proc/pellet without building for it as a side effect. At least now the proc isn't detrimental anymore.

Corrosive: much less desirable now that the effect is capped, though still good up to a point. No issue with the added duration. Damage type is still good and probably even better since it will retain it's multiplier most of the time, not for the better IMO. Reduced effectiveness is already felt on lvl ~100 heavy Alloy Armor.

Radiation: not terribly exciting, can cc the entire room by just shooting 1 enemy, but also turns grineer heads away from your LoS... Stacking the proc is irrelevant. Damage type is still situational.

Magnetic: irrelevant against everything but corpus, against which it's desirable but completely overshadowed by Toxin. Damage type is undesirable with it's only positive being completely overshadowed by it's own procs...

Viral: was already very good before but now completely ridiculous. Not only will the proc make the multiplier on the target type irrelevant, the damage type itself is also desirable against all the Grineer and fleshy Corpus units... This is way over the top now, and completely unneeded with the resilience of enemies having taken a nose dive since the revision...

Gas: was too good before: made Toxin obsolete, added AoE damage and was a contender for highest dps increase on unarmored targets. Just changing the proc to Gas instead of Toxin would have been a good starting point for re-balancing though, with it's unfavorable damage multipliers on pretty much everything... Now it feels like it doesn't do anything but add 2-3 digits of visual noise even when stacked 100+ on a build that would liquify level 170 Manic Bombards in a few seconds before the revision... Also being looked at which is great.

Slash, Toxin and to a lesser extend Heat are the only procs worth stacking a lot. The ones capped at 10 can mostly be maintained without investing more than maybe one 60/60 mod for status chance. Would really be great if there was a way to consolidate all the floating DoT numbers into one number to provide more relevant information and reduce the visual clutter.

IPS and elemental damage types having the same weight for determining which status will proc is awesome and a long awaited change. Makes IPS based status weapons that aren't heavily biased towards slash relatively much more appealing. It also makes Slash based weapons relatively less appealing, which is good for melee but bad for ranged weapons IMO, since the later didn't feel like they were over-performing and Hunter Munitions exists anyway.

All-in-all some good and bad stuff with the update. Looking forward to more iteration, notably on the status shotguns and Impact and Gas status procs.

[Drago55577]

Damage statuses (gas slash toxin electric heat) need 4x weighting since capped statuses just don't need it.

[WeaselBoy]

51 minutes ago, S0b3rt00th said:

Electric: irrelevant, but at least it's not Impact. Really struggling to see the added damage procs, not worth building for IMO.

They made it continuously deal damage over the entire duration, rather than the initial hit. More stacks increases this pulsing damage. It's almost exactly like Gas now, except it stuns the enemy afflicted. Which also makes it better because doesn't have -25/50% multipliers to flesh and cloned flesh.

Either way, you are right it is not worth building. In fact I'd wager all the damaging status effects (except Slash) are still terrible post patch. The damage of Gas, Electric, Heat, and Toxin need to be increased by 3-400% before I even consider building for their status effects rather than straight Viral or hitting damage weaknesses. 

 

Also, not in response to you, but general critique. If DE wants to keep the knockdown on Impact, that's fine, but at least a a bonus damage multiplier to the enemy once a full knockdown takes place since it is now impossible to hit headshots. Arguably all the "CC" status effects should get similar bonuses because nothing survives long enough for their discount CC (compared to straight death) to be worthwhile. Why the hell would I want to stack Puncture or Blast up to 10 stacks? For a non-noticeable reduction in enemy damage? That isn't going to make a status rifle viable. The CC effects should have damage components attached to them, at a lesser degree than the straight offensive statuses, just so that you have a reason to build them on status weapons.

Also the Blast change murdered Amalgam Furax Body Count. It still says it knockdowns, but it doesn't. It just applies a blast proc to everything nearby which is pointless.

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by WeaselBoy

[nslay]

1 hour ago, SortaRandom said:

If your phage is actually behaving this way, then please do!

The behaviour you're describing for Phage/Phantasma sounds nothing like what I've seen from my own testing; I've only been getting one tick (i.e. one chance at a Status proc) per fire rate no matter how many beams are touching, and no matter how much Multishot I slap on.

 

4 hours ago, Drago55577 said:

The fact they're capped make them inferior on status weapons like the Tigris Prime. The change needs to be, well, changed to stop valuing low status chance weapons like crit guns. I've already said everything relevant in my original post anyway.

You both wanted to see Phage in action. I will admit, it does apply statuses a lot slower than I imagined/remembered. I compared it to Kuva Kohm which I use as a reference shotgun, and then later to Vaykor Hek and Phage is markedly slower at applying statuses than both of them. I see the stacks on the enemy title bar and some of them suddenly appear in multiples which leads me to believe that the multiple beams might be doing something. The unconverged beams definitely apply statuses to multiple enemies. But yes, Phage is slower than both Kuva Kohm and Vaykor Hek at killing some beefy enemies.

Spoiler

 

So compared to Vaykor Hek or Kuva Kohm, Phage is definitely a bit weaker! Now I didn't play too much with Phage builds, but this Corrosive/Viral/Heat build seemed to do the best against Exo Gokstad Officers (my personal benchmark enemy... it's a high bar!).

[zakaryx]

11 hours ago, NikSmoker said:

Remove Impact double-stacking, it's just killed all impact based weapons. Akstiletto just trash now cause target falls on the groung every few seconds and i can't aim for head -> damage output is garbage now.

 

https://imgur.com/a/HuwT7ql

 

This

So much this.

It was bad enough with blast but now it's part of every single weapon with impact.

[shut]

3 hours ago, nslay said:

You both wanted to see Phage in action. I will admit, it does apply statuses a lot slower than I imagined/remembered. I compared it to Kuva Kohm which I use as a reference shotgun, and then later to Vaykor Hek and Phage is markedly slower at applying statuses than both of them. I see the stacks on the enemy title bar and some of them suddenly appear in multiples which leads me to believe that the multiple beams might be doing something. The unconverged beams definitely apply statuses to multiple enemies. But yes, Phage is slower than both Kuva Kohm and Vaykor Hek at killing some beefy enemies.

-snip-

So compared to Vaykor Hek or Kuva Kohm, Phage is definitely a bit weaker! Now I didn't play too much with Phage builds, but this Corrosive/Viral/Heat build seemed to do the best against Exo Gokstad Officers (my personal benchmark enemy... it's a high bar!).

I played the Phage part of your video in slow motion, and yeah, it looks to behave as I described earlier. i.e. It's only doing one tick at a time no matter how many beams are touching.
I didn't watch through the whole thing in incredible detail, but if you're suddenly getting two procs on an enemy, that's probably because of the 12.0 fire rate making the procs look like they happened at the same time. And even though it's kinda hard to count the exact number of ticks in that video, it's definitely closer to 12 ticks per second than the expected ~170 ticks per second if each beam were ticking independently.

I'm only really paying attention to the mechanics rather than the overall damage and kill speed of the weapon.

[rstripn]

Please let me know if I have this correct:

Slash status dot is based only on weapon innate damage and total damage bonuses. Physical damage mods (including slash) and elemental damage mods do not increase the damage per tic.

Gas status dot is based only on weapon innate damage and total damage bonuses. Physical damage mods and elemental damage mods (including heat and toxin) do not increase the damage per tic.

Heat status dot is based on weapon innate damage, total damage bonuses, and heat elemental mods. Physical damage mods and non-heat elemental mods do not increase the damage per tic.

Toxin status dot is based on weapon innate damage, total damage bonuses, and toxin elemental mods. Physical damage mods and non-toxin elemental mods do not increase the damage per tic.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, rstripn said:

Please let me know if I have this correct

You are correct, except maybe for Slash. It was the way you described it before the update, but with Slash losing it's 4x proc priority, and the general changes made to status, they might have changed it to include +Slash mods. I don't think anyone has tested this yet.

Also, Gas is just broken at the moment. They clearly messed up the formula, resulting in both Toxin and Fire from mods being ignored.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Traumtulpe

[rstripn]

22 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You are correct, except maybe for Slash. It was the way you described it before the update, but with Slash losing it's 4x proc priority, and the general changes made to status, they might have changed it to include +Slash mods. I don't think anyone has tested this yet.

Also, Gas is just broken at the moment. They clearly messed up the formula, resulting in both Toxin and Fire from mods being ignored.

Thank you for the verification.

I know they're probably changing Gas soon but I doubt it will have Toxin and Fire both fully added since it would then be the only status effect damage that benefits fully from two modifiers, and it already is the only dot that deals aoe damage.

Slash: No mod bonus, but ignores armor. 

Gas: No mod bonus, deals area damage.

Toxin: Mod bonus, ignores shields.

Heat: Mod bonus, cuts armor, CC.

Electricity: Mod bonus, CC, deals area damage once (less damage total single target but scales with more targets).

 

* Slash used to deal damage 7 times in 6 seconds, and I didn't see a note anywhere saying that changed. If that's still true, and if the other dots only deal damage once per second, then slash deals 16.67% extra damage in addition to ignoring armor.

* If I had to guess I'd say they'll probably make Gas damage scale with mods as (1/2)(Heat + Toxin)

Edited March 10, 2020 by rstripn

[OHKOBunny]

Please either put gas back the way it was or give us an alternative elemental proc that smacks enemies with an IMMEDIATE damage. DOT doesn't mean anything when most of what we shoot dies in one hit. The damage is disgustingly low, too so it's literally never useful. It's just a bad toxin at this point.

Considering this is a game where we're fighting tons of enemies at once, we really need a consistent AOE status option that isn't a moth fart

[rstripn]

5 minutes ago, OHKOBunny said:

Please either put gas back the way it was or give us an alternative elemental proc that smacks enemies with an IMMEDIATE damage. DOT doesn't mean anything when most of what we shoot dies in one hit. The damage is disgustingly low, too so it's literally never useful. It's just a bad toxin at this point.

Considering this is a game where we're fighting tons of enemies at once, we really need a consistent AOE status option that isn't a moth fart

I agree gas needs a re-buff but your reasoning confuses me.

If it dies quickly you don't need the dot. If it doesn't die quickly then the dot deals lots of damage.

Edited March 10, 2020 by rstripn