Why are people acting like they paid for scarlet spear and got ripped off lol ?

[DonIMdon]

9 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

Because we did buy into it. 

We bought into Scarlet Spear with our faith in DE, and our check bounced.

Oh stop being a drama queen lmao If you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for excuses like "we bought in with our faith", then you really never had an argument at all.

[m0b1us1]

2 hours ago, DonIMdon said:

If you like a slower mobile defense with some modifiers that dont make much difference then ya i guess its fun but i would never farm kuva there.

Hmm... comparing a non-endurance mode to an endurance mode... If anything its like excavation, but there is only 1 enemy you actually need to worry about when you activate it.

Slower.... yeah maybe if you run with a team of complete new players who don't know how it works. If you are half-geared out, its the fastest because the rounds end as fast as you can kill the carriers... Mobile defense? Oh too bad, you got to sit there and wait and there is nothing you can do to speed it up.

Get a good team that actually knows the mode, and they will be doing sub 3 minute rotations no problem. Hek even I solo can get some crazy fast runs depending on the spawns. If you know what you are doing, its by far the fastest endurance mode out there. It has 2 steps, none of them require waiting. First, get key and throw it in. Second, kill carrier.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Because after 7 years people get sick and tired of having massively broken updates.

[m0b1us1]

14 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Again, unless the arcane as a whole was rebalanced, the game didn't weaken you and force you to grind to return to that power level, it kept your power level and gave you more power to get to.

With the better arcanes, nope they pretty much did exactly nerf them and force you to grind to get that old level of power. Or are you saying that having forced CD's and the inability to refresh itself while active or lowering the proc chance somehow not a nerf? DE themselves even said they were nerfing certain arcanes. So no idea where you got this misconception from.

If DE was so concerned about balance, they could have easily just buffed the trash arcanes. Status resist arcanes? Instead of a max 80% making it so that to resist a single status 100% of the time take a rank 1 and rank 2 arcane, just make a rank 3 arcane give 100%. Boom. Now all status resist arcanes actually have been flat buffed, but also don't need you to grind even more if you don't have them! Oh wait, what about all the other trash arcanes that would still never be used, and still will NEVER be used? Oh we are just going to forget about them because DE said they were "buffing" them. All the ones that got "buffed" now take more than twice as many to get to these stronger levels, and the good arcanes got buffed in stats, but nerfed in many other ways that make them much weaker.

Basically calling this a "rebalance" is like pouring some vinegar over a pile of roses, then taking a pile of rotting ghoul corpses and giving a spritz of air freshener and saying that now more people will pick the pile of ghoul corpses as their favorite smell. To be fair though, its actually even worse than that because to get the better smelling ghoul corpses you need to get twice as many bags to hold them in for you to get that one spritz of air freshener.

[DonIMdon]

Just now, m0b1us1 said:

Hmm... comparing a non-endurance mode to an endurance mode... If anything its like excavation, but there is only 1 enemy you actually need to worry about when you activate it.

Slower.... yeah maybe if you run with a team of complete new players who don't know how it works. If you are half-geared out, its the fastest because the rounds end as fast as you can kill the carriers... Mobile defense? Oh too bad, you got to sit there and wait and there is nothing you can do to speed it up.

Get a good team that actually knows the mode, and they will be doing sub 3 minute rotations no problem. Hek even I solo can get some crazy fast runs depending on the spawns. If you know what you are doing, its by far the fastest endurance mode out there. It has 2 steps, none of them require waiting. First, get key and throw it in. Second, kill carrier.

Its like both of them actually lol with slight differences. The core is put a thing in a thing and defend it though. I mostly run with randoms in everything so its ok some times but i dont know the rewards are kinda meh except for maybe 2 arcanes and wisp. And i guess you can speed it up depending on the spawns but it still feels like it takes forever to me. Especially in sorties when you have to do 8 its like ugh. Ya i could get a good team together but it just feels like im putting in more effort for less stuff. Im not saying its a bad game mode, its ok. And its no where as bad as defection thats for sure.

[Loza03]

7 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

With the better arcanes, nope they pretty much did exactly nerf them and force you to grind to get that old level of power. Or are you saying that having forced CD's and the inability to refresh itself while active or lowering the proc chance somehow not a nerf? DE themselves even said they were nerfing certain arcanes. So no idea where you got this misconception from.

"unless the arcane as a whole was rebalanced"

Translation: That was getting nerfed either way. Rest of them stayed as they were and got more stuff.

7 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

If DE was so concerned about balance, they could have easily just buffed the trash arcanes. Status resist arcanes? Instead of a max 80% making it so that to resist a single status 100% of the time take a rank 1 and rank 2 arcane, just make a rank 3 arcane give 100%. Boom. Now all status resist arcanes actually have been flat buffed, but also don't need you to grind even more if you don't have them! Oh wait, what about all the other trash arcanes that would still never be used, and still will NEVER be used? Oh we are just going to forget about them because DE said they were "buffing" them. All the ones that got "buffed" now take more than twice as many to get to these stronger levels, and the good arcanes got buffed in stats, but nerfed in many other ways that make them much weaker.

The 'buff everything' approach is a deeply flawed approach to 'balancing' that's only really suggested by people who don't realise the ramifications.

Just buffing everything until it's balanced simply results  in an overly bloated system at best.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Didn't help that they nerfed arcanes then upped the amount it takes to max them.

[m0b1us1]

Just now, DonIMdon said:

Its like both of them actually lol with slight differences. The core is put a thing in a thing and defend it though. I mostly run with randoms in everything so its ok some times but i dont know the rewards are kinda meh except for maybe 2 arcanes and wisp. And i guess you can speed it up depending on the spawns but it still feels like it takes forever to me. Especially in sorties when you have to do 8 its like ugh. Ya i could get a good team together but it just feels like im putting in more effort for less stuff. Im not saying its a bad game mode, its ok. And its no where as bad as defection thats for sure.

If you mean "pick up A and put into B" then sure I will give you that. By that measure then certain sabotage missions are just like it to! Pick up this and put it into this console and go break these cores.

The rewards are the best respectively for endurance runs with maybe an exception to endo vs arbitrations. Assuming a full set of rotations, they are far faster than any other endurance run, reward you for doing well (if you protect all 4 a number of times in a row, you get an improved rotation. Normally it would be AABCA, but in disruption it could be AABCC), and are not gated by time for a rotation unlike every other endurance run.

It's a sortie... endurance runs are longer on sorties. It has been like that for quite a long time. If you are a decent player it rewards you for how well you play, you play fast and efficient, you get a ton more rewards and far more often than if you just did something like a survival. So the only gate between you and your reward is how fast you can complete the rotation.

[m0b1us1]

5 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

"unless the arcane as a whole was rebalanced"

Translation: That was getting nerfed either way. Rest of them stayed as they were and got more stuff.

The 'buff everything' approach is a deeply flawed approach to 'balancing' that's only really suggested by people who don't realise the ramifications.

Just buffing everything until it's balanced simply results  in an overly bloated system at best.

Under the DE patented excuse of "this isn't working how it was supposed to" after YEARS of being in the game. The reasoning they gave for nerfing them was not for "balance", it was to make the less used arcanes more used.

Name every single mode where resisting a cold proc can be of significant value with a common occurrence. Yep, none. Name every single mode where healing can be of significant value. Just about everywhere unless you are outright avoiding damage with stealth or something like iron skin. Name a mode where arcane nullifier is widely used. Eidolons. So we buff that to 100%, and frees up a slot. Does it help anywhere outside of eidolons? No not really.

This isn't a PvP game, this is WARFRAME. Something has to get absurdly powerful to actually warrant a nerf, like saryn being able to clean ESO by pressing 1 and then hiding because spores would self spread.

Let me put it to you like this when it comes to buffing the garbage arcanes. Buffing arcane ice and arcane fire will do NOTHING to how often they are used. That is because there is no need for them. Arcane nullifier went from being just like all the other garbage, far too niche, arcanes, to being one of the most widely used because the introduction of eidolons produced a need for it. Basically, it is laughable to even suggest DE cared about balance with these arcane changes. They did it purely to increase the grind and the only people who don't realize that now are those in denial.

[(NSW)Greybones]

40 minutes ago, EmailSoup said:

...when I started playing the event for the first time, I felt massively "ripped off" for my time. It was only when I figured out exactly how the system worked that I realized the grind:time ratio is actually pretty fair...

Hey neat, you helped provide a (personal) answer to a question I posted earlier asking why there didn’t seem to be as many complaints about grinding the event. Thanks for that 👍

Still waiting to do the event. Glad to hear that (from your perspective) the grind might not be so bad for me

[DonIMdon]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because after 7 years people get sick and tired of having massively broken updates.

Poor you ! What ? You spent no money to get the FLC and you have to wait for some bug fixs. Im so sorry to here that, thats the worst thing in the world that could happen right now dude. Do you have a go fund me ? I would love to help out in your time of need cause my baby boi needs his fwee hot fixs for the FLC... Destiny 1 literally charged for content like scarlet spear lol  And it was so broken i stopped playing forever. Maybe if we want perfect releases just like AAA companies do (sarcasm) maybe DE should charge to get in events (again sarcasm) ? 

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

13 minutes ago, DonIMdon said:

Poor you ! What ? You spent no money to get the FLC and you have to wait for some bug fixs. Im so sorry to here that, thats the worst thing in the world that could happen right now dude. Do you have a go fund me ? I would love to help out in your time of need cause my baby boi needs his fwee hot fixs for the FLC... Destiny 1 literally charged for content like scarlet spear lol  And it was so broken i stopped playing forever. Maybe if we want perfect releases just like AAA companies do (sarcasm) maybe DE should charge to get in events (again sarcasm) ? 

So your criticism basically boils down to "It's free, so you can't complain", right? Sure, if buggy, broken messes are the epitome of perfection & are seen in an overwhelmingly positive light, then I'll dig the grave & DE can lower this Frankenstein of a game into the hole. Shame on me for expecting DE to actually learn how to release a stable, enjoyable update after 7 years of experience.

Edited March 30, 2020 by (PS4)IndianChiefJeff

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

13 minutes ago, DonIMdon said:

Poor you ! What ? You spent no money to get the FLC and you have to wait for some bug fixs. Im so sorry to here that, thats the worst thing in the world that could happen right now dude. Do you have a go fund me ? I would love to help out in your time of need cause my baby boi needs his fwee hot fixs for the FLC... Destiny 1 literally charged for content like scarlet spear lol  And it was so broken i stopped playing forever. Maybe if we want perfect releases just like AAA companies do (sarcasm) maybe DE should charge to get in events (again sarcasm) ? 

I play games to escape the BS. Not jump head first into even more.

Drop the entitled attitude.

DE is big enough and well funded enough to be able to put out quality content. There’s no excuse for them to deliver things half’s naked anymore. They need to get their act together

Edited March 30, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Currilicious]

I don't know either.

It's free and it is not terrible nor game breaking so I don't see anything to complain about.

I think people think the very act of playing a game entitles them to dictate every development direction of the game. Even shareholders of tech companies do not have that kind of power. Talk about delusions of grandeur.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

15 minutes ago, DonIMdon said:

Poor you ! What ? You spent no money to get the FLC and you have to wait for some bug fixs. Im so sorry to here that, thats the worst thing in the world that could happen right now dude. Do you have a go fund me ? I would love to help out in your time of need cause my baby boi needs his fwee hot fixs for the FLC... Destiny 1 literally charged for content like scarlet spear lol  And it was so broken i stopped playing forever. Maybe if we want perfect releases just like AAA companies do (sarcasm) maybe DE should charge to get in events (again sarcasm) ? 

[Loza03]

14 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Under the DE patented excuse of "this isn't working how it was supposed to" after YEARS of being in the game. The reasoning they gave for nerfing them was not for "balance", it was to make the less used arcanes more used.

Name every single mode where resisting a cold proc can be of significant value with a common occurrence. Yep, none. Name every single mode where healing can be of significant value. Just about everywhere unless you are outright avoiding damage with stealth or something like iron skin. Name a mode where arcane nullifier is widely used. Eidolons. So we buff that to 100%, and frees up a slot. Does it help anywhere outside of eidolons? No not really.

This isn't a PvP game, this is WARFRAME. Something has to get absurdly powerful to actually warrant a nerf, like saryn being able to clean ESO by pressing 1 and then hiding because spores would self spread.

Let me put it to you like this when it comes to buffing the garbage arcanes. Buffing arcane ice and arcane fire will do NOTHING to how often they are used. That is because there is no need for them. Arcane nullifier went from being just like all the other garbage, far too niche, arcanes, to being one of the most widely used because the introduction of eidolons produced a need for it. Basically, it is laughable to even suggest DE cared about balance with these arcane changes. They did it purely to increase the grind and the only people who don't realize that now are those in denial.

No, something just has to screw up the core design. Which can, in fact, not be hugely powerful. In fact, buffing more than they've nerfed is the reason we're in this S*** situation to begin with.

DE noticed that invisibility frames were more desirable than everything else because they made running through missions very quickly and easily. So they added more missions where that wasn't possible, implicitly buffing everything else. Eventually, CC became the meta. Instead of nerfing it, they buffed survival and DPS based frames. This led into enemies being hilariously underpowered. This led into DE buffing enemies. This actually made the nuke and CC metas worse because now non-nuke or non-lockdown strategies became less viable because player times to kill on squishy frames were so low - frames that usually possessed that power to begin with. So now DE can't nerf any of them, and we get events like this, where it boils down to shooting a literal brick wall or re-pressing the win button for half an hour.

[DonIMdon]

Just now, (PS4)IndianChiefJeff said:

So your criticism basically boils down to "It's free, so you can't complain", right? Sure, if buggy, broken messes are the epitome of perfection & are seen in overwhelmingly positive light, then I'll dig the grave & DE can lower this Frankenstein of a game into the hole. Shame on me for expecting DE to actually learn how to release a stable, enjoyable update after 7 years of experience.

UMMM duh ? Its free chill out and play something else in the meantime while it gets fixed and you lose nothing. ive never seen a bigger group of cry babies lmao Is warframe the only game to you ? I mean i really like it as well but DAYM at the end of the day you paid nothing and at most played it for 5 mins decided you dont like and chose not to continue. Wow RIZE UP GAMERS ! You take S#&$ to seriously lol You ever think youre too uptight to actually have fun ?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

4 hours ago, Xardis said:

See, farming for hours is not bad if its fun, and I would say that this new gameplay is not so fun.  And it also doesnt put a good light on squadlink, sorry, OPLink in a good light, so I see this as something that DE will forget in the near future.

^ THIS.  This right here.

This is at the core of DE’s major successes...and also players’ disappointments.

When the high standards/expectations set for combat by earlier versions of Warframe aren’t met, no amount of new features can truly compensate, especially if it impacts combat through both game design and stress tests on proprietary builds that are going to impact gameplay.

The Good ole’fashioned mob looter-shooter equation still reigns supreme.

The grind and repetition are constants that will NEVER go away in DE’s business model.

Bur when you try to diversify and grow, you have to be mindful not to lose the counter to that grind and repetition.  Engaging, Entertaining, and straight up FUN combat.  Because that CAN easily go away, and then the model for success breaks down.

Edited March 30, 2020 by (PS4)Silverback73

[m0b1us1]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

No, something just has to screw up the core design. Which can, in fact, not be hugely powerful. In fact, buffing more than they've nerfed is the reason we're in this S*** situation to begin with.

DE noticed that invisibility frames were more desirable than everything else because they made running through missions very quickly and easily. So they added more missions where that wasn't possible, implicitly buffing everything else. Eventually, CC became the meta. Instead of nerfing it, they buffed survival and DPS based frames. This led into enemies being hilariously underpowered. This led into DE buffing enemies. This actually made the nuke and CC metas worse because now non-nuke or non-lockdown strategies became less viable because player times to kill on squishy frames were so low - frames that usually possessed that power to begin with. So now DE can't nerf any of them, and we get events like this, where it boils down to shooting a literal brick wall or re-pressing the win button for half an hour.

No, we are in this situation because of DE deciding to only listen to DE apologists. Arcanes quite literally had no influence. Let me give you a little history of the meta pre and post eidolons.

When trials were around, the widely accepted best frames were the likes of vauban, nova, loki, rhino, trinity, and even nyx. All these frames had great levels of utility. They were considered the best because at the time, the end game was trials. Trials did not reward you for kills, they rewarded you for completing the mission. So naturally you pick the best frames that give you a stronger chance of doing just that. So it was literally better to CC the enemies and use utility to win.

Then eidolons came out and trials were killed. The meta at that point rapidly shifted to DPS, and only DPS. With the removal of trials, the introduction of eidolons,and DE pushing stuff like ESO as "end game", the only "meta" was "how quick can you kill stuff". So DPS frames soared as the top frames, and as weapons power creeped, high survival frames that could use them consistently became meta. Overall, the meta shifted to what it is today only because DE decided that the only thing worth rewarding is how fast you kill stuff. After all, why CC when you can just kill and get done faster?

You know what arcanes were doing during all of this? The very same thing they had always been doing. If you want to blame this meta on anything, the only people responsible is DE for only pushing content that only focus on kills. Changing arcanes was purely meant to increase the grind.

[DonIMdon]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

I guess if thats your last resort to pull the it was a troll the whole time card. After being straight wrong and looking dumb, ok... Classic, very old school xbox "trolling", takes me back to when i was a kid YEARS ago, when i still played on consoles. Man those were the good OL times !

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

5 minutes ago, DonIMdon said:

UMMM duh ? Its free chill out and play something else in the meantime while it gets fixed and you lose nothing. ive never seen a bigger group of cry babies lmao Is warframe the only game to you ? I mean i really like it as well but DAYM at the end of the day you paid nothing and at most played it for 5 mins decided you dont like and chose not to continue. Wow RIZE UP GAMERS ! You take S#&$ to seriously lol You ever think youre too uptight to actually have fun ?

Buddy, criticism is a valuable thing, people can like something & still demand improvement where it's needed most. Why act all emotionally defensive about something that so desperately needed more time in the dev oven?

[Loza03]

Just now, m0b1us1 said:

No, we are in this situation because of DE deciding to only listen to DE apologists. Arcanes quite literally had no influence. Let me give you a little history of the meta pre and post eidolons.

When trials were around, the widely accepted best frames were the likes of vauban, nova, loki, rhino, trinity, and even nyx. All these frames had great levels of utility. They were considered the best because at the time, the end game was trials. Trials did not reward you for kills, they rewarded you for completing the mission. So naturally you pick the best frames that give you a stronger chance of doing just that. So it was literally better to CC the enemies and use utility to win.

Then eidolons came out and trials were killed. The meta at that point rapidly shifted to DPS, and only DPS. With the removal of trials, the introduction of eidolons,and DE pushing stuff like ESO as "end game", the only "meta" was "how quick can you kill stuff". So DPS frames soared as the top frames, and as weapons power creeped, high survival frames that could use them consistently became meta. Overall, the meta shifted to what it is today only because DE decided that the only thing worth rewarding is how fast you kill stuff. After all, why CC when you can just kill and get done faster?

You know what arcanes were doing during all of this? The very same thing they had always been doing. If you want to blame this meta on anything, the only people responsible is DE for only pushing content that only focus on kills. Changing arcanes was purely meant to increase the grind.

Also known as 'implicitly buffing the DPS frames'.

Point still stands, mate.  We're in this situation because DE buffed more than they nerfed.

[(PSN)psycofang]

Unfortunately i agree with you. The complaints about repetition are borderline nonsense in practice because the entire game is an exercise in repetition.    Anyone using disruption as a fall back doesnt realize how completely absurd that argument actually is: kill key dropper - activate station - random status effect that does almost nothing - stun suicider - kill suicider - repeat 

In reality is basically mobile defense - endurance + random status that is nearly inconsequential. 

People are acting straight up offended at Scarlet Spear when you could just

-make you complaints known in a well thought out fashion

-play casually/something else if its really THAT bad

And people complaining about the arcane ceiling are off thier rocker ngl. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by (PS4)psycofang

[Kentar_Evil]

jesus crist
what happened here?

 

[DonIMdon]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)IndianChiefJeff said:

Buddy, criticism is a valuable thing, people can like something & still demand improvement where it's needed most. Why act all emotionally defensive about something that so desperately needed more time in the dev oven?

I agree bud but when does criticism turn into pointless *@##$ing ? Its your fault over hyping it in your head when ALL the other events are based around a repetitive theme. Have you ever played an MMO/MMO-lite ? They tend to focus on repetitive things... kinda like warframe has been doing the ENTIRE time lmao I think people are acting emotionally offensive in this situation. And its getting fixed now during a pandemic, your over here screaming GAMERZ RIZE UP, my free content doesnt work perfectly ( even though its been working fine for me ) down with DE. I understand talking about the bugs and how the event works and how to make it better but people just seem to want to start a warframe resistance and im like why though ?  Just wait till it gets fixed if you think its that bad they even said they would probably extend it too. All you have to do is spend no money, no time too if you want, even though its definitely playable and not that bad of a grind.