Now that enemy scaling is fixed, viral and our unbelievable damage output need nerfing?

[MPonder]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Even in a softie without modifications to armor ex a shotgun or bow only sortie they scale harder then regular enemies in sortie. But hey keep it up 

Keep it up for? You are saying stuff with 0 proves, lol.

[-AncientWarrior-]

On 2020-04-05 at 4:36 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

“Let’s nerf our damage output and completely nullify the purpose of the enemy armor nerf”
 

You’re just actively seeking to ruin the game now. And I don’t appreciate it.

this .. says it for me.. just stop the nerfing S#&$.. if u dont like said ability or weapon or stat  just use something else..

[ArachnidOverlord]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

When are people going to remember that there's more to difficulty than the two extremes? Difficulty is a spectrum, not a binary state. Wanting the game to not be mindless does not mean wanting it to be over-the-top hardcore.

There is more to difficulty than two extremes. I gave lowest and highest examples to start because my difficulty thread was ignored anyways just like literally everything we post on these forums. 

There could be varying difficulties. The higher difficulty you go the more rewards you get (more affinity and %boost to drops)

They'd obviously vary in levels like below

1-10
20-30
30-50 
50-70 
70-100
100-150
200-250 

Normal would give normal affinity and drops. Going higher would give up to 50-300% more drops and affinity depending on how high level.
Lower than normal would give less but normal could be the level that the specific map was already at. 

And special events/alerts would have only normal and higher difficulties like arbitrations, kuva floods, nightmare missions and relics so you can't just cheese it on an easy level. 

 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

8 minutes ago, MPonder said:

Keep it up for? You are saying stuff with 0 proves, lol.

Go spawn in simulacrum 120-150s and pay attention to the difference in how much an actual enemy can take in a ___ “only sortie” 

but hey keep it up 

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

7 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Eh enemies in rj still get melted by well thought builds but carry on 

oh, we in a measuring contest now? no thanks

[AlexMercer]

14 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

the thing alot of you guys confuse is challenge. Just because players want a challenge and balance doses not mean we want dark souls level of difficulty. regardless overall youd still be doing overpowered damage but that can also be balanced and fair. look at infamous. Eso. Black desert online Blade and soul Neverwinter. those games allow you to be overpowered short of things like bosses etc but have balance and optional challenge. That is what alot of people want. we dont want to make the game like dark souls. againb for the thousandth time. we just would like some optional difficulty to feel like most long standing players have a purpose for playing .'

 

I have no problem with them adding optional difficulty the only thing i don’t want is after playing this game for years and has worked the same way for years for them to make a forced change and nerf and add forced difficulty to a game i play to chill more difficult content can be fun but as long as it is not forced and optional and no offense but i dislike elder scrolls online if you meant that by eso most of that game is stat clamped i have never had fun on those game the only game you named that was fun was infamous and in that game when you have unlocked every power you’ll become unstoppable and also that game you can choose difficulty unlike the other games you named the reason i hate games like eso is when you get better gear and go back to old content it stat clamps to you and scales your lvl and gear which makes it feel useless to even progress i like warframe cause it isn’t like any of these games and for the other games you named i have not played them but i have seen enough gameplay videos to know that i do not like them or think they are good/fun games.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Papa Requiem said:

oh, we in a measuring contest now? no thanks

We could be but you said rj enemies were challenging i said a well thought out build makes them trivial. Me trying to flex would be I still one-2 shot them (you can if your build is ok ) and it seems like you can’t

 but you’re welcome!

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

But your weapon build in the simulcarcum is always going to perform better than an actual mission when it comes to those higher level enemies as someone who used to use the simulacrum heavily to test builds before I started doing endurance runs you will feel the falloff if the simulacrum could accurately represent scalining of  enemies I’d be supportive of you 

But at least I’ll have a consistent baseline of how different builds affect my weapon.

Cant do that in a normal mission because there’s too many variables to skew the results and make any information gained worthless.

like seriously did you take Chemistry in school? You NEVER conduct an experiment where you have zero control over outside factors.

[MPonder]

43 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

But at least I’ll have a consistent baseline of how different builds affect my weapon.

Cant do that in a normal mission because there’s too many variables to skew the results and make any information gained worthless.

like seriously did you take Chemistry in school? You NEVER conduct an experiment where you have zero control over outside factors.

That's a load of crap, the guy has 0 prove what his talking about, lol. This thing that you do more dmg in simulacrum is just a meme. Ppl listen to what majority ppl say and beleave, beleaving what majority say in Warframe forum/reddit community blindly is a big mistake one can do.

Edited April 6, 2020 by MPonder

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

49 minutes ago, MPonder said:

That's a load of crap, the guy has 0 prove what his talking about, lol. This thing that you do more dmg in simulacrum is just a meme. Ppl listen to what majority ppl say and beleave, beleaving what majority say in Warframe forum/reddit community blindly is a big mistake one can do.

Ok, but can you tell him that he’s full of crap and not me?

[Kaiga]

Nerfs are killing this game. Stop suggesting more of them, because you have zero idea what you're on about.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 hours ago, MPonder said:

That's a load of crap, the guy has 0 prove what his talking about, lol. This thing that you do more dmg in simulacrum is just a meme. Ppl listen to what majority ppl say and beleave, beleaving what majority say in Warframe forum/reddit community blindly is a big mistake one can do.

And where are you getting this information from

People have literally tested this infame and found it to be true. Due to scaling in game missions and even In sorties live enemies have different values. They just got around to removing stealth dmg via paused Enemies in the sim and to my knowledge aren’t done looking at it with other values. 

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok, but can you tell him that he’s full of crap and not me?

He dosent like me 😞 I just wanna give him a kiss

[MPonder]

Pretty much, you hardly have a reason to get "prepared" in Warframe, since every content is so damn easy. Also your progression get nerfed for no reason, which gives you much less reason to progress. Stop asking for nerfs.

Edited April 7, 2020 by MPonder

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, MPonder said:

Pretty much, you hardly have a reason to get "prepared" in Warframe, since every content is so damn easy. Also your progression get nerfed for no reason, which gives you much less reason to progress. Stop asking for nerfs.

So asking for balance to viral and the rest of the elements is out of reach? Nobody is saying to kill viral but tweak values so such could be inline with the other elements and buff them as well so we have balance 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

Nerfs are killing this game. Stop suggesting more of them, because you have zero idea what you're on about.

A lot of players have been playing since open and closed beta and have much more experience to give suggestions about the game. So I’m sure a lot of players have an idea of what they’re going on ab

[MPonder]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

And where are you getting this information from

People have literally tested this infame and found it to be true. Due to scaling in game missions and even In sorties live enemies have different values. They just got around to removing stealth dmg via paused Enemies in the sim and to my knowledge aren’t done looking at it with other values. 

I remember listen that "people have tested" before in a thread about heat with 2 idiots that didn't know how Damage 2.0 work trying to use that as argument, almost baited me in beleaving. You can use that, it stay as 0 prove. Go at simulacrum, do some damage there to mobs, go to missions at same level, same mobs, compare, mot is a good one. There is a sniper only sortie there, go test. Get some screenshots, come back.

Edited April 7, 2020 by MPonder

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 minutes ago, MPonder said:

I remember listen that "people have tested" before in a thread about heat with 2 idiots that didn't know how Damage 2.0 work trying to use that as argument, almost baited me in beleaving. You can use that, it stay as 0 prove. Go at simulacrum, do some damage there to mobs, go to missions at same level, same mobs, compare, mot is a good one. There is a sniper only sortie there, go test. Get some screenshots, come back.

I have and that’s where I’m telling people this information. If you don’t believe me that on you. But I’m not going to get screenshots for just one person aye gears if you and a couple others would like me to back what I’m saying I don’t mind. But you can look up videos of extended survivals past an hour and compare their damage to level 120 heavy gunners in mot vs a 120-125 in the sim. Or???? You could also test it yourself. Saying I have zero proof when I’ve provided where I’m getting my data from on multiple occasion didn’t really hold weight as I’m not the only person saying such as well

[MPonder]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I have and that’s where I’m telling people this information. If you don’t believe me that on you. But I’m not going to get screenshots for just one person aye gears if you and a couple others would like me to back what I’m saying I don’t mind. But you can look up videos of extended survivals past an hour and compare their damage to level 120 heavy gunners in mot vs a 120-125 in the sim. Or???? You could also test it yourself. Saying I have zero proof when I’ve provided where I’m getting my data from on multiple occasion didn’t really hold weight as I’m not the only person saying such as well

Yeah, yeah, 0 prove. keep going with that.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

9 minutes ago, MPonder said:

Yeah, yeah, 0 prove. keep going with that.

I just gave you resources to go see for yourself and offered if enough people requested. I understand you don’t want to believe someone who is trying to aid you but it’s okay son 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

U see, this is the backward logic I was talking about.

So they nerfed one thing, and now, they gotta nerf ANOTHER, and ANOTHER. The wheel keeps spinning round until were playing call of duty.

They nerfed health, so now you want them to nerf damage? They could've just buffed health and the same effect would've happened just without the whack a mole effect of nerfing everything. 

This is misguidance

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

U see, this is the backward logic I was talking about.

So they nerfed one thing, and now, they gotta nerf ANOTHER, and ANOTHER. The wheel keeps spinning round until were playing call of duty.

They nerfed health, so now you want them to nerf damage? They could've just buffed health and the same effect would've happened just without the whack a mole effect of nerfing everything. 

This is misguidance

If health was buffed people would complain about more enemies being bullseye sponges. Even if you were to buff damage to even more ridiculous amounts

[(PSN)Crixus044]

2 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

If health was buffed people would complain about more enemies being bullseye sponges. Even if you were to buff damage to even more ridiculous amounts

They don't have to be bullet sponges and they WON'T become bullet sponges with a single change. It's not black and white, one or the other, sponge or tissue. If we kill enemies far too quickly, then raising health by say +50% would increase the time to kill by 50%. Reducing damage output by 33% would increase time to kill by 50%. The effect is the same no matter which way you go. The only difference is the number of things you need to change.
A. Change every weapon and every mechanic to conform EQUALLY to the new reduced health you've set 1 at a time. As it is happening right now. Aka, the whack-a-mole effect
OR
B. change one thing and have our gear fall in place. You know we have tons of great mathematical gamers in this community.

Edited April 7, 2020 by (PS4)Crixus044

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

They don't have to be bullet sponges and they WON'T become bullet sponges with a single change. It's not black and white, one or the other, sponge or tissue. If we kill enemies far too quickly, then raising health by say +50% would increase the time to kill by 50%. Reducing damage output by 33% would increase time to kill by 50%. The effect is the same no matter which way you go. The only difference is the number of things you need to change.
A. Change every weapon and every mechanic to conform EQUALLY to the new reduced health you've set 1 at a time. As it is happening right now. Aka, the whack-a-mole effect
OR
B. change one thing and have our gear fall in place. You know we have tons of great mathematical gamers in this community.

based on how exponential scaling works and also how scaling works in general that +50% can do alot or little for enemies you're given solution would be black and white being that something like health dosent really matter considering we do tens of thousands of damage within a second rasing health would not speed up tttk currently as the game is . Reducing dmg by 33% would not increase ttk by 50% but dfepending on the weapon and synergies between frames have less or more than 50% in ttk your given example holds no weight.

they arent doing that now however., The reccent changes to status which are likely going to remain until they feel like changing will probs stand unti just that. these reason im an advocate for viral being changed is not just soley viral but accurate balance the entire spred. Currently the other elements need buffs and Viral needs some stacking or mulltiplier changes or pur damage changes. Not a large margin but emough to tone it down.

B - due to the current state of warframe and with the structure of the game being broken alot needs to change. but thats not the topic at hand
 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

based on how exponential scaling works and also how scaling works in general that +50% can do alot or little for enemies you're given solution would be black and white being that something like health dosent really matter considering we do tens of thousands of damage within a second rasing health would not speed up tttk currently as the game is . Reducing dmg by 33% would not increase ttk by 50% but dfepending on the weapon and synergies between frames have less or more than 50% in ttk your given example holds no weight.

they arent doing that now however., The reccent changes to status which are likely going to remain until they feel like changing will probs stand unti just that. these reason im an advocate for viral being changed is not just soley viral but accurate balance the entire spred. Currently the other elements need buffs and Viral needs some stacking or mulltiplier changes or pur damage changes. Not a large margin but emough to tone it down.

B - due to the current state of warframe and with the structure of the game being broken alot needs to change. but thats not the topic at hand
 

This does not make any sense. Scaling has no effect on what I'm talking about. We are talking total values here. this 50% is universal. The scaling is the same. You are fighting the same enemies, they just don't die as easily. You don't deal different amounts of damage to different enemies, it's very standard (minus armor and shields of course, but those are separate mechanics, thus not part of this conversation). The synergies don't change. I don't know what you're talking about but you are not thinking mathematically or realistically here.

The recent changes have been an ongoing crusade against player power through direct manipulation of the user's assets. Constant changes in stats, removal or mechanics, hard caps, negation, etc.

Let's do a quick example. A harrow uses a Hema with a tailored synergistic build without using penance in classic warframe player fashion of  "I don't want to". It deals 10766 headshot damage per bullet with a 97.5% status chance of pure viral damage to a grineer. With 97.5% status chance and multishot, you get 10 procs from 2 full bursts. A level 170 Corrupted HG has 96478 Hp and a ttk of .9 seconds (with pure headshots on max buff)
Now, what do you nerf here? Harrow? I'll use chroma then. Hema? I'll use a different weapon. Viral? I'll use corrosive then. How about all three? Then I'll change all three. Now you gotta nerf THAT.
OR
Let's bring the old scaling back for health only. Health goes from 96,478 to 276,262 health. That's 2.86x the total health. Now, let's see what happens to the TTK. It jumps up to 2.26 seconds. Let's calculate how much of a jump that was, 2.48x. Pretty close to my statement right? Why isn't it exact? Because like all viral procs, stacking procs has a ramp up time to maximum dps and the longer you shoot, the more of the top level of dps you get. That's how math works. and tell me, is a 1.7 second ttk all that bad? I almost TRIPLED enemy health and ttk went from 3 bursts to 7 burst, on the "hardest" level acceptable in the game. Is he a bullet sponge?

Hardly. Give me examples of what you would do and I'll mathematically put it into my situation. In fact, give me any situation. I'll give you the results
 

Build Used:
http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Hema/t_30_222023003_128-2-3-132-0-5-137-1-10-142-7-5-153-6-3-159-4-5-161-8-3-355-3-3-405-5-5_132-8-137-7-128-4-355-7-159-5-405-5-153-9-142-9-161-5_WyIxIiwiMCIsWyIiLCIiLCIiLCIiLCIiLCIiLCIiLCIiXV0=/en/2-0-104
Why? I literally just went with some random mods that a person might used. It isn't really optimized in any way.
Formula?
Base*(1+Serration)*(1+Elementals)*Headshot*(Crit Chance*(Crit Damage*Headcrit-1)+1)*armor reduction modifier*viral damage modifier*(sum of viral proc buff) ≥ health.
Sum of viral proc buff follows the format that looks like (1+2+2.25+2.5...4.25+4.25+4.25). Based on number of hits needed This number of hits needed is n.
5.7 bullets are fired every burst due to multishot. Since it's impossible to shoot .7 of a bullet, I simply subtract the number of instances by 5 three times, then subtract by 6 seven times. I do the 5 bullets first as a low ball. There were 8 bursts required. Burst fire rate is 15.2, which is a 0.06578947368 second space between shots in a burst, with 2 spaces per burst. there is then a delay of .172 seconds between bursts. With 8 bursts, that's 0.06578947368*8+.172*7=ttk.
I round up for the sake of variable factors such as frame rate and such.

Edited April 7, 2020 by (PS4)Crixus044