Now that enemy scaling is fixed, viral and our unbelievable damage output need nerfing?

[Savire510]

Considering changes to enemy armor scallling, our shield gating, enemy accuracy i think DE could easily increase overall enemy levels in missions ( we kinda see this in scarlet spear with +150lvl sentients)  Add missions that start from 100-150lvl and go over 200, because we can survive them and we can kill them with our current power level and recent Revised changes. Current level 100 feel like normal enemies, like anything under 100lvl is just underpowered.

[Hypernaut1]

5 minutes ago, Savire510 said:

Considering changes to enemy armor scallling, our shield gating, enemy accuracy i think DE could easily increase overall enemy levels in missions ( we kinda see this in scarlet spear with +150lvl sentients)  Add missions that start from 100-150lvl and go over 200, because we can survive them and we can kill them with our current power level and recent Revised changes. Current level 100 feel like normal enemies, like anything under 100lvl is just underpowered.

We need endless missions that start at 150

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

1 hour ago, Savire510 said:

Considering changes to enemy armor scallling, our shield gating, enemy accuracy i think DE could easily increase overall enemy levels in missions ( we kinda see this in scarlet spear with +150lvl sentients)  Add missions that start from 100-150lvl and go over 200, because we can survive them and we can kill them with our current power level and recent Revised changes. Current level 100 feel like normal enemies, like anything under 100lvl is just underpowered.

I think that’s going in the wrong direction. That’s basically going to just encourage more and more power creep until level 200 enemies are as easy to kill as level 50s are now and people will be asking to start missions at level 500, and the viscous cycle continues.

DE needs to squash the scale way down and not have there be such an insanely huge difference between starter enemies and endgame. There does need to be a difference of course, but what we have now is crazy and obviously not designed to work long term.

For all the ways in which it tries to be, Warframe is not an RPG. You don’t gain a permanent increase in power just by having played the game a long time. Mandatory mods like damage and multishot attempt to mimic this, but then you become locked into specific builds and your power level is contained entirely in your gear, rather than being inherent, which makes the game near impossible to balance when there is such a crazy power gap between pieces of gear.

Instead of going up up up forever, DE needs to redefine the scale from the ground up. The game starts at level 1, and goes to level 30 at endgame, and rebalance our damage and survivability around that.

[BDMblue]

19 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I don't get your logic. 

It will affect all weapons equally, 

Removing serration mods will allow more diversity. 

Rivens can be used for the utility they were always intended for. 

Making elemental damage  non multiplicative will make players think about the damage to put for the bonus effects rather than just as a flat damage boost. 

Your "comfortable enemy level" may change a bit as a result but will it really matter if it affects everyone equally? 

 

Not really. 1 gun is going to be top DPS mods won’t effect anything but element type. It’s basically the system we have now with just elemental mods mattering.

we lose damage multishot 60/60 mods are gone. We lose attack speed crit chance set bonuses. The system removes everything makes it even harder to level a level 1 gun and adds nothing fixes no problems.

It’s just a baffling change that literally makes the game worse and gives nothing.

if I’m wrong tell me what it adds besides now you pick elemental for the type and not the damage, because we do both now so why even say that?

[(NSW)Rare_Shipping_Bird]

Sometimes I'm glad I have the switch port because most issues like this are usually Ironed out before they get to me. But yeah, the nerfs are getting a bit out of hand, like I hope the Vazarin changes are looked over before they head my way, I really don't wanna go Zenurik again.

 

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2020-04-04 at 9:36 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

“Let’s nerf our damage output and completely nullify the purpose of the enemy armor nerf”
 

You’re just actively seeking to ruin the game now. And I don’t appreciate it.

This. We don't need nerfs in this game! We play to have a sense of power. Can all you people asking for nerfs just go play Doom Eternal on Ultra Nightmare if you want something difficult.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2020-04-04 at 10:29 AM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

 

 

Ok then...i guess you like busted Viral damage that kills a nerfed version of our already weak list of enemies in 0.5 seconds 

 

This is exactly what I like. You want tough enemies, go play railjack.

[ArachnidOverlord]

Viral may be good as it stands but try it against level 100+ grineer officers without any arcane/frame buffs. It's what I test on to see what viable weapons I have. 

I think that the other statuses need to be buffed.

Gas was beaten into a pulp for no reason, it was fine as it was because it wasn't game-breaking most of the time, slash was almost always better. Gas needs to be brought back up because pre-nerf it still struggled against armored targets, it was seldom good at everything. 

Magnetic is still trash, it should altogether negate shield gating as part of its effect (against enemies not tenno). Otherwise what's the point of a little extra damage against a shield you instantly break?

Corrosive needs to be brought back up to what it was or at least a bit more than its current state (maybe 90-95% armor reduction). 20% armor left can still leave enemies with a very annoying amount of damage resistance once you get high enough in levels/base scaling. 

The warframe community seems to always have the darks souls-type people arguing with the power fantasy people. 

Which is why this game needs difficulty scaling from low levels like 15-20 all the way up to 200-250 before starting a match.

Edited April 6, 2020 by ArachnidOverlord

[Madway7]

On one extreme you have the people that want to lower kill times and possibly make enemies more annoying to fight.

 

On the other you have people that want to remain Gods and kill hundreds of enemies with no issue.

 

You cannot appease both sides, you cannot try to appease one without leaving them disappointed in some way or another.

 

 

It's no wonder DE doesn't know how to run the game anymore.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

11 hours ago, AlexMercer said:

I wasn’t talking about viral im mostly talking about our dmg output i play this game to be a overpowerd being if i wanted to play for a challenge or play a difficult game i would go play dark souls so to me all kinds of nerf are bad including to viral but mostly our overall dmg output.

the thing alot of you guys confuse is challenge. Just because players want a challenge and balance doses not mean we want dark souls level of difficulty. regardless overall youd still be doing overpowered damage but that can also be balanced and fair. look at infamous. Eso. Black desert online Blade and soul Neverwinter. those games allow you to be overpowered short of things like bosses etc but have balance and optional challenge. That is what alot of people want. we dont want to make the game like dark souls. againb for the thousandth time. we just would like some optional difficulty to feel like most long standing players have a purpose for playing .'

 

[CatboyPrincess]

9 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Due to how the game is designed it's not possible to have elements be equally useful unless they're all designed to be pretty much the same thing.

I know. It's a difficult design-motivation problem in the end.

 

3 hours ago, ArachnidOverlord said:

The warframe community seems to always have the darks souls-type people arguing with the power fantasy people. 

Which is why this game needs difficulty scaling from low levels like 15-20 all the way up to 200-250 before starting a match.

I think having per-player localized difficulty slider would be good. I don't know why they don't already do that. (I.e. a slider to handicap oneself pre-match.)

[MPonder]

Everybody that ask for player's nerf is dumb, the game is 99% brain-dead content, if I could kill all enemies in the map with one buttom on this brain-dead content, I'd be happy with that. We need difficult content, not more recycled star chart missions with the same enemies at higher level.

[0_The_F00l]

10 hours ago, BDMblue said:

Not really. 1 gun is going to be top DPS mods won’t effect anything but element type. It’s basically the system we have now with just elemental mods mattering.

we lose damage multishot 60/60 mods are gone. We lose attack speed crit chance set bonuses. The system removes everything makes it even harder to level a level 1 gun and adds nothing fixes no problems.

It’s just a baffling change that literally makes the game worse and gives nothing.

if I’m wrong tell me what it adds besides now you pick elemental for the type and not the damage, because we do both now so why even say that?

I still don't get you, or maybe I was not clear in my explanation. 

You are making additional points to the suggestion, points that I never made. 

I am suggesting tradeoffs instead of straight up multipliers for anything that previously only provided damage. 

Lets take this theoretical example :

Weapon that has following basic stats 

Impact : 100

Puncture : 100

Slash : 100

MS: 1.0

(total damage per shot = 300)

Fire rate : 10 per second. 

Magazine : 10

Ammo capacity: 100

Effective DPS now = damage per shot x shots per second. 

=300x10

=3000 IPS only. 

Now let's take any elemental. 

Suggested stats :

50% element x (30% base damage converted to X, 20% bonus X element damage.) 

New damages :

Impact : 70

Puncture : 70

Slash : 70

X : 150

(total damage per shot 360)

Rise in paper damage / dps = yes

Rise in damage to enemy? Subject to elemental bonuses. 

Still an increase, but within limits and tradeoffs not a flat boost. 

Now let's add multishot:

Suggested stats :

+100% multishot, ammo capacity is halved. (twice as bright half as long :) ) 

New stats :

Impact : 70

Puncture : 70

Slash : 70

Element x : 150

MS: 2.0

Ammo capacity : 50

Total damage per shot = 360x2

=720

Rise in damage per shot = yes. 

Downside = yes, but can be overcome with good management/ utility mods. 

Maximum damage observed with 2 mods using suggested changes:

300 to 720, a 140% damage boost with cost of utility.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

18 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

How the actual f*** am I expected to test which build is better in a chaotic environment where I have no control over what enemies spawn or what circumstances their under and be able to call that accurate data?

Spoiler alert: I can’t. Because that’s not how proper testing is done. The whole reason I picked a heavy gunner is because I figured if my weapon can kill it in a reasonable time then it’s going to kill anything else in reasonable time.

The idea that a chaotic environment would ever be considered a more accurate place to test builds than a controlled environment goes against basic logic. But quite frankly I expect nothing less from the forums.

Well. You can play disruption 

go to mot or any other t4 

rj in the last section

its actually many easy to see how a weapon can actually perform. Even Steve has had gripes with the simulacrum and even at one point considered removing it. (Not a bright idea) he had stated the simulacrum dosent portray weapons accurately and other things about now showing the game off. Think about that Steve admitting such? Granted they don’t play their own game enough but even with such info he was right due to the nature of a horde base game with randomized enemies you going into the simulacrum shows no true accuracies other then this weapon does this damage and prepping for builds. On paper it sounds nice in practice it dosent due to the randomness of spawns how scaling actually works in missions vs training rooms and more the simulcrum holds no weight in how viable a build is.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

16 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Yes....its extremely petty and makes you wonder what kinda person thinks that way is all lol.

The list can go on: things like gara or khoras 1 being tied to melee mods. Like no one cares because theres 1700 other examples of things being op in the game.

I’m all for balancing the entire game and making sure everything is in tune not just one thing. But the issue at hand in this thread is viral not everything else. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Papa Requiem said:

This is exactly what I like. You want tough enemies, go play railjack.

Eh enemies in rj still get melted by well thought builds but carry on 

[Aldain]

Viral seems to be the only thing that might be overtuned a bit, I'd say make it start slower but scale higher so it has to build up before being world ending, making it inefficient (but not ineffective) for trash mobs but a good pick as an anti-heavy tool.

Otherwise I don't think anything else really needs too big a change, except maybe making the "Heavy" units a bit more durable so they don't get swept up quite as easily as the cannon fodder.

 

[Albion_Vortigern]

>power fantasy game

>complaining about the same thing that 1 shots you on a whim across the room for not being a tank

[minininja77]

If you want to play a game with piss poor damage output and bullet sponges, ubisoft made the perfect game for you its called the Division

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

50 minutes ago, minininja77 said:

If you want to play a game with piss poor damage output and bullet sponges, ubisoft made the perfect game for you its called the Division

Or warframe cause dmg output is overturned so we need bullet sponges for a pseudo challenge 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Well. You can play disruption 

go to mot or any other t4 

rj in the last section

its actually many easy to see how a weapon can actually perform. Even Steve has had gripes with the simulacrum and even at one point considered removing it. (Not a bright idea) he had stated the simulacrum dosent portray weapons accurately and other things about now showing the game off. Think about that Steve admitting such? Granted they don’t play their own game enough but even with such info he was right due to the nature of a horde base game with randomized enemies you going into the simulacrum shows no true accuracies other then this weapon does this damage and prepping for builds. On paper it sounds nice in practice it dosent due to the randomness of spawns how scaling actually works in missions vs training rooms and more the simulcrum holds no weight in how viable a build is.

Mot buffs enemies.

Disruption is just like every other mission. Variety of enemies with varying Heath, defense, mechanics.

Why waste my time screwing around in Railjack to kill a couple enemies when I can just spawn those same enemies in the Simulcrum and test them there in a controlled environment?

[BDMblue]

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I still don't get you, or maybe I was not clear in my explanation. 

You are making additional points to the suggestion, points that I never made. 

I am suggesting tradeoffs instead of straight up multipliers for anything that previously only provided damage. 

Lets take this theoretical example :

Weapon that has following basic stats 

Impact : 100

Puncture : 100

Slash : 100

MS: 1.0

(total damage per shot = 300)

Fire rate : 10 per second. 

Magazine : 10

Ammo capacity: 100

Effective DPS now = damage per shot x shots per second. 

=300x10

=3000 IPS only. 

Now let's take any elemental. 

Suggested stats :

50% element x (30% base damage converted to X, 20% bonus X element damage.) 

New damages :

Impact : 70

Puncture : 70

Slash : 70

X : 150

(total damage per shot 360)

Rise in paper damage / dps = yes

Rise in damage to enemy? Subject to elemental bonuses. 

Still an increase, but within limits and tradeoffs not a flat boost. 

Now let's add multishot:

Suggested stats :

+100% multishot, ammo capacity is halved. (twice as bright half as long 🙂 ) 

New stats :

Impact : 70

Puncture : 70

Slash : 70

Element x : 150

MS: 2.0

Ammo capacity : 50

Total damage per shot = 360x2

=720

Rise in damage per shot = yes. 

Downside = yes, but can be overcome with good management/ utility mods. 

Maximum damage observed with 2 mods using suggested changes:

300 to 720, a 140% damage boost with cost of utility.

So we went from mods not effecting damage to mods effect damage, but we’re going to just nerf them. Community is going to love that. Next let’s reduce Warframes Mods to 15% bonus. 

I just don’t understand what problem your trying to fix and how? What does the elemental change do? What happens to 60/60 over 90 elemental mod choice go? What replaces that choice and how is your way more varied? It seems less. In your system I would pick the best element and build that as much into my gun as I can. Just forget the rest of the others. Take a single shot gun multi-shot reload. This would all become standard and cost 40-70% of the player base because it just destroyed years of players work. 

Maybe your young and have not played a lot of games to know how metas pop up. Your system is a way to make more catchmoon metas and won’t help anything or make the game funnier. Just single shot guns everything else is MR fodder. 

[CodeUltimate]

And this is why warframe is going to S#&$, they think that by nerfing something the other less optimal options will be more appealing but in reality you don't create diversity by nerfing the ''op'' stuff  you do it by introducing mechanics where the other options will be useful.

[(XBOX)WolfKingLeo]

5 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

And this is why warframe is going to S#&$, they think that by nerfing something the other less optimal options will be more appealing but in reality you don't create diversity by nerfing the ''op'' stuff  you do it by introducing mechanics where the other options will be useful.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

24 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

And this is why warframe is going to S#&$, they think that by nerfing something the other less optimal options will be more appealing but in reality you don't create diversity by nerfing the ''op'' stuff  you do it by introducing mechanics where the other options will be useful.

 

18 minutes ago, (XB1)WolfKingLeo said:

You guys realise this is a child way of thinking right?

What would you rather do? Spend hundreds of resources on new mechanics and additions to balance an existing feature 

 

Or readjust the goddamn existing feature

 

Besides what new "mechanics" are you suggesting that will fix our god mode problem?

Make tougher enemies? Well too bad because THEY JUST NERFED ENEMY SCALING 

Make Ai better?...on what earth in the multiverse is DE's skill were high enough to create higher intelligent Ai?

Edited April 6, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk