Rhino,Saryn,Frost and Excalibur should get a buff in stats

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

38 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

Wow double than a completely unmoded MK1-Bo apart from Life Strike. You proved me wrong.Thank you DE for givng me such tremendous healing power instead of actual armor. I'll go now, prolly mod Inaros for power str or smth.

Rumble adds armor at full health. It maxs out at 1500. 

[Redlove108]

On 2020-04-29 at 5:42 AM, T-Shark69 said:

Yeah DE add armor to Rhino. It's what he desperately needs. 



Not making his 2 recastable or more useful augments or half the arcanes being worth anything with him. No. JuSt a LitLe mOrE aRmOr!

OK but how you get it that high? O.o

[kevoisvevo]

20 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Lmao. Inaros, god emperor of the trash can. Inaros Prime god emperor of the recycle bin. I see no Revenenat player has replied because they all died from laughter,
Inaros is one of the worst warframes right now. Allows you to not die in a game when even Mag can do solo kuva survival for 1h+, while literally having no abilities worth using. In 4 digit level survivals when traditional armor+hp tanking falls through and damage mitigation reigns, he's literally the worst tank frame.

  

haha Life Strike go swooosh

imagine using clunky life strike. this was brought to you by spam magus elevate/repair gang

Edited May 1, 2020 by kevoisvevo

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

2 hours ago, kevoisvevo said:

imagine using clunky life strike. this was brought to you by spam magus elevate/repair gang

To be fair, Life Strike is still better. But overall Arcane Grace is the superior. 

Even with a cooldown, it regenerates 54% of your health, that's a lot and you don't have to do basically anything.

[T-Shark69]

 

12 hours ago, kevoisvevo said:

imagine using clunky life strike. this was brought to you by spam magus elevate/repair gang

Imagine healing with anything but rubble at 250hp per 5 petrified enemies. This post was brought to you by rhino needs more armor gang.

Spoiler

Life strike heals you to full HP in a single strike, Ever used it on a redeemer? Fully heals max HP Inaros in a second.

 

14 hours ago, Kajin_Style said:

OK but how you get it that high? O.o

Posted a vid already. Same logic in normal missions. Use Magus Anomally; Zenurik's singularity is whack.

E : TIL mods edit your comments without notifying you at all.

Edited May 1, 2020 by T-Shark69

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

I still feel these warframes deserve the buffs I mention. 

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

I don't see the problem with adding buffs to what was once the tanks of warframe. 

[Shadedraxe]

I don’t think DE would consider giving rhino more armour with how much mileage rhino can get from ironclad charge. Personally I’d wanna see rhino primes armor at an even steven 300 like Frost and Excalibur prime/umbra, But it would be more for my ocd than rhino really needing that extra 25 armor.

Excalibur doesn’t need better stats, he needs a rework for his 3rd ability maybe, but lord, with umbral mods Excalibur prime and umbra are pretty hard to kill already (And umbra literally already has the full set of polarities built in). And he has radial blind/roar so... just slap on adaption and life strike and umbra becomes very hard to kill.

Saryn is literally the dps goddess, with a powerful Agro pull, and large stun. Her abilities do a pretty good job of keeping her alive, she doesn’t really need to be a tank.

Frost could probably go for a rework (his kit is still good but it’s starting to feel it’s age among newer frame releases) and his prime needs a stat boost as well. Frost prime, being one of the oldest primes, means he only got one stat boost, and it was shields. He could really use a speed boost like both Rhino and Saryn prime.

we don’t need all frames to play like inaros. There are a plethora of squishy frames that survive just fine with their kit alone. And having middle of the road tanky frames is fine still so long as their kit does the job. Plus we have shield gating now, all of these frames just got another layer of reaction time to survive.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Shadedraxe

[selig_fay]

4 minutes ago, Shadedraxe said:

with a powerful Agro pull

Lol, did they fix this? Aggression generation didn't work for Saryn before, but now I see it works like Loki. It's so powerful.

[Shadedraxe]

On 2020-05-03 at 11:05 AM, zhellon said:

Lol, did they fix this? Aggression generation didn't work for Saryn before, but now I see it works like Loki. It's so powerful.

You can thank pablo for that.

[Xepthrichros]

Nah, I don't think they do. I use each of them regularly enough, and modded correctly and equipped with the right arcanes, they hold their own to sortie level and above. You adapt your play style based on what their kit offers. Not ask their design to be buffed or reworked until it fits your own playstyle. The former involves learning to play differently with each frame you equip, offering some extent of gameplay variety. The latter is gameplay uniformity expecting the entire game to work according to your own pace.

Apart from "hey I main them please buff my mains" which is the usual motivation driving suggestions around here, I see no reason why they need buffs. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Xepthrichros

[(PSN)danee_danee]

Saryn doesnt need buff. She needs nerf. She is like one of the most op and overused frames in the game.  Seriously... She even has self heal and she is dps, not tank. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by (PS4)danee_danee

[Thrymm]

More armor isn't really what these frames need.  Do they need a little updating?  Yeah, maybe a little.  For the most part, static numbers aren't it.

Know what Frost needs?  He needs cold damage to not suck.  His kit is FINE....except that it's cold damage.  Even with that, he's a strong CC frame that can handle a ton of pressure, but cold damage in general just kinda sucks, and all damage frost does is cold.  What that, we say?  Frost isn't a damage frame?.......Well, maybe, except that three of his four abilities most assuredly have a damage component, and frankly they could just not bother because the utility of them is what makes them tick---mostly because cold damage sucks.

He needs his sprint speed moved up from .95.  It's there for flavor.  Ever dipped your sandwich in the toilet for flavor?  It's not a good look, and I'd bet y'all haven't done it.  That's because, while bad is a flavor, it's not a good flavor.  The ice guy being just outright slow on the run sucks.  Just put it with everyone else already.  Will it make the world a better place?  Yes.  Will it overpower Frost, or in any way make him more powerful?  No.

He needs his avalanche absorb barrier augment to move to percentage based.  It's set numbers now, and it's not enough.  As a percentage of damage done, it'd be useful.  Doubly so if cold damage stopped sucking.  As is, there is a metric crapton of things that mod slot is better for.

Ice Wave augment should be standard, make a new Ice Wave augment.  Really, this sucker is pretty darn good.  It makes Ice Wave as good as any "modern" skill.  Handy stuff, it's the way it should always be.  Need a new augment?  Make it "Ice Wave Radiance" or something to turn it into a PBAOE from the forward wave it is now.  That'd still be awesome, still worth slotting, and the base skill would be up to snuff.  See also fix cold damage.

Make a new Snow Globe augment.  Seriously, a 50% chance to freeze them solid?  Inside the bubble that they already can't get at you in, that already snares the holy crap out of them?  When will this be useful?  Probably about the same time as.........

New passive!  Who cares what?  The one he's got now sucks.  Sucks eggs with no holes in them, there is no nutrient in this passive.  It's actually almost enough to make a guy foam when you see a frozen enemy once every few hours and think "wow, that lame assed passive still exists, huh!".....and then don't see it in action for another few hours.  Seriously, it doesn't really matter what, just this.  It's about as useful as taming neutral animals was(maybe less), and we all know how that turned out, don't we?

Bet y'all thought I'd mention his freeze augment....nope.  This one actually kinda rocks.  Don't believe it?  Try and see, You'll probably like it.

But what I didn't mention is armor.  Shield gating did magic things to Frost.  He's not just a tank, he's a CCer, he's got shields(that he actually uses, unlike Rhino, who also doesn't need more armor), and if cold didn't suck as damage source(it's good as a utility), he's not even a half bad nuker.  Frost is wildly versatile, if a bit simple and old school.  And once you get past all that other stuff and somehow actually hit Frost on his health bar, you find out real quick that he doesn't just melt away, either--that little armor bump he's already got keeps him very much alive through dang near everything.

[N64Gamefreak]

6 hours ago, (PS4)danee_danee said:

Saryn doesnt need buff. She needs nerf. She is like one of the most op and overused frames in the game.  Seriously... She even has self heal and she is dps, not tank. 

Definitely.  A well-modded Saryn can make even Requiem endless missions a joke.

[MakeEmBurn]

On 2020-04-29 at 2:51 PM, Xaero said:

So, Frost and Rhino don't need additional armor because of their skillsets. Excalibur doesn't need additional armor because..?

I understand what the person whom you are addressing in this message was attempting to convey.

Exalibur (and all of his other variants) have an absurd level of damage and control. Let's say we ENTIRELY forgo the broken as all hell blade that is his 4. Your 1 grants you invulnerability for the duration of all dashes you can cast. Meaning, if you have 250 energy (easily obtained from Flow) and no ability efficiency whatsoever, and the enemy is spaced out adequately enough, provided you mark your targets appropriately, you can stay invulnerable whilst dashing around and dealing ridiculous damage for about 6-7 seconds. His 2 provides a blind/stun, staggering all enemies in a relatively large radius and rendering most non-bosses unable to attack. This also opens them to finishers, meaning by they come back to their senses, a majority will have been killed by the True Damage from finishers. His 3, aside from dealing absurd amounts of damage to many many enemies, even if it doesn't kill them (which it likely will) will result in a stagger and knockdown, leaving enemies again open to finishers.

All in all, Excalibur has too much mobility, CC and damage output to require additional armour, as that would make the frame MUCH too well rounded, leaving absolutely no weaknesses whatsoever, making one of the starter frames you require literally no effort to get and it's Umbra variant which you obtain from going through quests some of the most, if not THE most absurdly broken Warframes.

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, MakeEmBurn said:

I understand what the person whom you are addressing in this message was attempting to convey.

Exalibur (and all of his other variants) have an absurd level of damage and control. Let's say we ENTIRELY forgo the broken as all hell blade that is his 4. Your 1 grants you invulnerability for the duration of all dashes you can cast. Meaning, if you have 250 energy (easily obtained from Flow) and no ability efficiency whatsoever, and the enemy is spaced out adequately enough, provided you mark your targets appropriately, you can stay invulnerable whilst dashing around and dealing ridiculous damage for about 6-7 seconds. His 2 provides a blind/stun, staggering all enemies in a relatively large radius and rendering most non-bosses unable to attack. This also opens them to finishers, meaning by they come back to their senses, a majority will have been killed by the True Damage from finishers. His 3, aside from dealing absurd amounts of damage to many many enemies, even if it doesn't kill them (which it likely will) will result in a stagger and knockdown, leaving enemies again open to finishers.

All in all, Excalibur has too much mobility, CC and damage output to require additional armour, as that would make the frame MUCH too well rounded, leaving absolutely no weaknesses whatsoever, making one of the starter frames you require literally no effort to get and it's Umbra variant which you obtain from going through quests some of the most, if not THE most absurdly broken Warframes.

Have you unlocked Arbitrations yet? I'd love to see how you play there with your most absurdly broken warframe.

[MakeEmBurn]

51 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Have you unlocked Arbitrations yet? I'd love to see how you play there with your most absurdly broken warframe.

I'm a few nodes off of Arbitration, though my Excal Umbra is currently shredding through level 150's with relative ease at the moment. Run a few primed mods, the Umbral set mods, and you tend to rip through a lot of enemies if you time your abilities well. (I tend to not need this as the way I've modded it from max Energy my 4 lasts over 1 minute and probably more) 

[Xaero]

26 minutes ago, MakeEmBurn said:

I'm a few nodes off of Arbitration, though my Excal Umbra is currently shredding through level 150's with relative ease at the moment. Run a few primed mods, the Umbral set mods, and you tend to rip through a lot of enemies if you time your abilities well. (I tend to not need this as the way I've modded it from max Energy my 4 lasts over 1 minute and probably more) 

Too bad you won't really be able to use your 4 there much. Especially on infested missions.

[MakeEmBurn]

7 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Too bad you won't really be able to use your 4 there much. Especially on infested missions.

I'm not 100% on how Arbitrations work yet, as I've left researching how to do them when I actually get to them. So, I'm relatively in the dark regarding Arbitrations and how they operate. Still, my Excal is carving through the enemies that I commonly tend to fight (120-140 enemies, from there I start to struggle to be perfectly honest with you), but even then I have alternate frames. Let's assume that I want to use Excal for Arbies aswell, I still have quite a bit of CC and invul in my kit, and I can use them more without the energy drain of 4.

[Xaero]

3 minutes ago, MakeEmBurn said:

I'm not 100% on how Arbitrations work yet, as I've left researching how to do them when I actually get to them. So, I'm relatively in the dark regarding Arbitrations and how they operate. Still, my Excal is carving through the enemies that I commonly tend to fight (120-140 enemies, from there I start to struggle to be perfectly honest with you), but even then I have alternate frames.

Alternate frames that do the job better than the most absurdly broken one?

All I'm actually saying is that before making serious claims it's necessary to have at least an understanding of how things work, and even better, experience these things. Get all frames, max them out, try them out in different gamemodes. You'll most likely notice how effectively nuker frames like Saryn or Equinox delete everything around them (even behind walls) with minimal effort, or how effectively Limbo handles crowd control by just freezing everything that got into his bubble (with some exceptions).

18 minutes ago, MakeEmBurn said:

Let's assume that I want to use Excal for Arbies aswell, I still have quite a bit of CC and invul in my kit, and I can use them more without the energy drain of 4.

The main points of Arbitrations are:

- you only have one chance if you play solo. There's no "downed" state there, only insta-death. Teammates could revive you, but to do that, they need to pick up special items (dropped by special enemies) that seriously debuff their EHP. So constantly dying in a group makes you a great burden;

- Arbitration drones (special enemies I've mentioned above). They work like shield drones for enemies, but instead of shields they give every enemy close to them complete invulnerability to damage and any kind of warframe abilities. Arbitration drones themselves are completely immune to warframe abilities as well, the only way to destroy them is to use weapons. Imagine how it looks when 2-3 drones protect about 20 high-level enemies near them.

Now imagine how easy you're going to get to an hour Arbitration survival mark.

[MakeEmBurn]

22 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Alternate frames that do the job better than the most absurdly broken one?

All I'm actually saying is that before making serious claims it's necessary to have at least an understanding of how things work, and even better, experience these things. Get all frames, max them out, try them out in different gamemodes. You'll most likely notice how effectively nuker frames like Saryn or Equinox delete everything around them (even behind walls) with minimal effort, or how effectively Limbo handles crowd control by just freezing everything that got into his bubble (with some exceptions).

The main points of Arbitrations are:

- you only have one chance if you play solo. There's no "downed" state there, only insta-death. Teammates could revive you, but to do that, they need to pick up special items (dropped by special enemies) that seriously debuff their EHP. So constantly dying in a group makes you a great burden;

- Arbitration drones (special enemies I've mentioned above). They work like shield drones for enemies, but instead of shields they give every enemy close to them complete invulnerability to damage and any kind of warframe abilities. Arbitration drones themselves are completely immune to warframe abilities as well, the only way to destroy them is to use weapons. Imagine how it looks when 2-3 drones protect about 20 high-level enemies near them.

Now imagine how easy you're going to get to an hour Arbitration survival mark.

You've made a mistake in what I stated.  

 

3 hours ago, MakeEmBurn said:

All in all, Excalibur has too much mobility, CC and damage output to require additional armour, as that would make the frame MUCH too well rounded, leaving absolutely no weaknesses whatsoever, making one of the starter frames you require literally no effort to get and it's Umbra variant which you obtain from going through quests some of the most, if not THE most absurdly broken Warframes.

All of these statements were mentioned after I stated that a buff in armour, or any other means in my personal opinion at this stage, would skyrocket Excalibur's only weakness being partially squishy (I do not deny this), and would make him ridiculously overpowered, arbie level frame that cleaves through everything like it's butter. Before people reach arbies, mastery ranks 1-12 when most people still haven't reached arbie phase and are much further down the list (I am one such person, though I only need a few more nodes to access it) Excalibur is already freaking busted (and this is not denying that there ARE better frames for everything he has out there, just not completely housing every component of his kit), and a buff of any sort would make him a little too strong. He's already Sortie viable without primed or maybe even Umbral mods, and that's generally what players use as a benchmark.
Either way, you're either right, you're wrong, or you're very dogmatic, and I'm going to be quite self-conscious in the fact that I am both quite dogmatic and somewhat wrong in this argument (as a very small armour buff wouldn't drastically change Excalibur, but points exceeding 50 likely would), but either way I did enjoy this conversation with you.

[T-Shark69]

I dunno about Excal, but people in arbitrations can do at least one hour with him from what Ive seen. Infested too.

[kwlingo]

If your looking for a Saryn buff, you have played her wrong. She can kill all things on map before you can even see the enemies even on level 10,000. She needs a nerf not a buff. Lol

[P._I._Staker]

Agree on more armour to excal, since he's a melee frame

Everything else doesn't need it.

[Xaero]

On 2020-05-07 at 10:14 AM, MakeEmBurn said:

All in all, Excalibur has too much mobility, CC and damage output to require additional armour, as that would make the frame MUCH too well rounded, leaving absolutely no weaknesses whatsoever, making one of the starter frames you require literally no effort to get and it's Umbra variant which you obtain from going through quests some of the most, if not THE most absurdly broken Warframes.

All of these statements were mentioned after I stated that a buff in armour, or any other means in my personal opinion at this stage, would skyrocket Excalibur's only weakness being partially squishy (I do not deny this), and would make him ridiculously overpowered, arbie level frame that cleaves through everything like it's butter. Before people reach arbies, mastery ranks 1-12 when most people still haven't reached arbie phase and are much further down the list (I am one such person, though I only need a few more nodes to access it) Excalibur is already freaking busted (and this is not denying that there ARE better frames for everything he has out there, just not completely housing every component of his kit), and a buff of any sort would make him a little too strong. He's already Sortie viable without primed or maybe even Umbral mods, and that's generally what players use as a benchmark.

Being well-rounded is not a problem, being too good at something is a problem. For example, Radial Blind was too powerful when it had the ability to blind through walls and obstacles, allowing players to lock down entire tilesets on interceptions. Now it's just a good ability that fits active playstyle well.

Being a starter frame or a frame you get through quest has nothing to do (and never should have anything to do) with being powerful. After all, you get the power through modding process which requires effort.

Now, talking about Excalibur in particular, he doesn't have too much of anything. Mobility (I assume you mean Slash Dash) is outclassed by Operator's Void Dash, which is universally available. The only thing that beats Void Dash in speed is instant teleportation. CC (in form of Radial Blind) has LoS limitation, as I've mentioned above. Damage output (Exalted Blade) is inferior to universally available melee weapons, since EB is locked out from the most useful melee mods. On top of that, it costs energy and is useless against ability-proof enemies. Damage output in form of Radial Javelin is just laughable. The only use this ability in its current state can ever have is Furious Javelin augment, which multiplies your total melee damage output. Unfortunately, even that is pretty much useless because Excalibur's survivability ends long before melee damage with no ability buffs starts falling off.

Just to prove my words, here's a video of a melee weapon shredding lvl 170 Corrupted Eximus Bombards and Heavy Gunners. No abilities used.

This power is available to any frame, even those who have no abilities related to damage.

And when the universal damage output is that high, superiority in damage department comes down to AoE. And some AoE weapons and abilities we have in game are the exact definition of "broken". Nothing to do with Excalibur though.

Excalibur is not a bad frame, but far from overpowered. Buffing his stats and adding defense-related stuff to his kit would be a good thing. My own suggestion for stats is to lower his shields to 50, increase Health to 150 and Armor to 300 (vanilla Excalibur)/425 (Excalibur Umbra/Prime). As for the kit, I believe Radial Javelin should receive additional capabilities: upon casting RJ, Excalibur gains time-limited (yet refreshable) damage reduction, and its value depends on enemies hit by a single cast (just like Furious Javelin works). 10+ enemies hit by a single cast give 95% DR, which is the cap. To avoid spamming, higher DR numbers can be overwritten by smaller ones (just like with Furious Javelin).

Edited May 8, 2020 by Xaero