Ash blade storm to work SIMILAR to peacemaker to achieve ease of use for consoles

[Pie_mastyr]

7 minutes ago, Void_Ocelot said:

She should have to deal with some kind of target-gating mechanic greater than camera spinning much the same as Ash.

Ash is balanced. Mesa is a fun vacuum.

Ok on the topic of mesa, what if you changed her ultimate to be purely retaliatory. Combine it with her 3, so whenever she gets shot, she does a dodge, leaving an after image that returns fire. Transition mesa to be a pure tank, focusing in on drawing enemy fire

Edited May 4, 2020 by Pie_mastyr
Typo

[Pie_mastyr]

6 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Not only console gamers are argue about Bladestorm. It sucks like hell even with mouse and keyboard which is the superior controller over console pads.

Sure it's not ideal, but when I play normally I had to aim at them anyway so it's not a huge change. But do you think making the marking reticle larger, or even making it snap to enemies could be a possible solution? Rather than just converting the ability to a more generic aoe?

 

[SenorClipClop]

3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

a massive powerful, albeit slow,  aoe.

One thing to add to this is that old Bladestorm used to make targeted enemies invincible to any damage that wasn't from Bladestorm, in order to keep Ash from bugging out. It was slow, but it guaranteed that Ash had to the one to kill those enemies, even if it meant slowing down the mission for everyone.

Now allies can kill the enemies, and Energy spent on the marks is refunded to Ash.

[Void_Ocelot]

12 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Balanced for lackluster, you mean.

That's not what I mean 🙂 Blade-storm is interactive. It is my opinion that is good for warframe. That's just me though. I'd like to see more of this approach.

[SenorClipClop]

3 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

And yes, because this [Peacemaker] is totally more "brain dead" than every other dps ability in the game. Saryn, equinox etc.

Peacemaker is a brain-dead ability, though. Press one button, swing your mouse (or joystick) around, here's your medal. Whether it's more or less brain-dead than other things in the game is debatable, but that debate doesn't change this fact.

This doesn't mean Mesa or her pew-pews are problematic, and it doesn't mean they need nerfing. But if you were to defend a stance that Mesa is well-designed, you'd have a steep uphill battle ahead of you.

[Acersecomic]

1 hour ago, DroopingPuppy said:

He is. The mechanism of Bladestorm makes it virtually unusable or very stressful. Then why we are bothered to do that?

Not to mention that it is totally different with his supposed playstyle. Ash is NOT Loki, who plays cloak and dagger. Ash is meant to assail rapidly and retreat, but Bladestorm requires Ash to be hide and mark the target one by one just like as aiming and shoot sniper rifles carefully. How funny, for Ash Prime is come with Vectis Prime! Did you expect Ash to be a sniper? Really? Even so, you can use Vectis Prime instead. NOT Bladestorm. I bet that Vectis Prime would be much better and faster to deliver your fury, despite the fact that sniper rifle is the worst weapon group in Warframe's most missions.

It's not stressful to me. I like it. And btw, you don't have to aim it carefully, you just shake all over the screen as if you're under the shower. He doesn't have to hide, hiding only reduces the cost per strike.

And sniper rifles can be very efficiently be used in combat without being a Battlefield camper sniper. Go in there and let loose, I do and it is fun. It's not Bramma, but it still kills fast and efficiently.

I'm honestly confused... by reading your posts... are you a troll or just so full of wrong through ignorance of lack of skill.

[DroopingPuppy]

9 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

It's not stressful to me. I like it. And btw, you don't have to aim it carefully, you just shake all over the screen as if you're under the shower. He doesn't have to hide, hiding only reduces the cost per strike.

And sniper rifles can be very efficiently be used in combat without being a Battlefield camper sniper. Go in there and let loose, I do and it is fun. It's not Bramma, but it still kills fast and efficiently.

I'm honestly confused... by reading your posts... are you a troll or just so full of wrong through ignorance of lack of skill.

I am neither troll or ignorant. Well, you may say that most troll or ignorant will return the same thing.

I said it is annoying as hell because I tried to do that. At first, why I am bothered to do when we have a guns that makes much better result? As I said, if you can endure such punishment, then you can use sniper rifles or semi-automatic rifles instead and these are actually much faster and easier.

 

Also, why Ash should be a 'sniper'? Isn't his job is pop the smoke, rush to the enemy, sweeping them and retreat safely? He is not the frame for the careful needlework in a chair. If it is on Loki then it may suit for him, for he is a spy frame after all. But again, Ash is not Loki.

Honestly, it is even against the whole concept of Warframe as well. Such mechanism is nothing but an abomination on FPS/TPS games. It is not acceptable.

Edited May 4, 2020 by DroopingPuppy

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 hour ago, Pie_mastyr said:

I think a lot of your grievances come from being a console player. Which I totally understand, but it's a huge move from an assassination ability.

A different idea like Making the reticle larger, or giving aim snapping could be a interesting change. Make it so channeling bladestorm gives the player a buff to their ability to aim, then make the clones a secondary part of it. Was gonna add a guaranteed bleed on hit to marked target but that's just stealing from garuda

Bladestorm actually is pretty engaging and fun on pc. It needs some qol tweaks but the core gameplay of picking on groups with your gank squad is one thing I'd rather not give up. Theres a bit of set up, then execution. it has a unique rythm. Just spewing out clones seems to kind of water this down imho

It's not a console issue at all. People move their aiming reticle more bullet jumping through hallways....

[ES-Flinter]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Void_Ocelot:

That's not what I mean 🙂 Blade-storm is interactive. It is my opinion that is good for warframe. That's just me though. I'd like to see more of this approach.

Nah not really. It can be as brain dead as Mesas peacemaker. Only differne will be, that the Ash player has to attack an enemies at first 220 times with his melle weapon to get the bonus from the combo-multipler. But in the end they are both braindead.

vor 16 Minuten schrieb DroopingPuppy:

Also, why Ash should be a 'sniper'? Isn't his job is pop the smoke, rush to the enemy, sweeping them and retreat safely? He is not the frame for the careful needlework in a chair.

Is there even such a big differnce between an assasin/ ninja and a sniper? Both of them have to pick at first their target. And if they have one they kill it with one single, but very effective strike/ bullet. And after that they both disappear.

vor 47 Minuten schrieb SenorClipClop:

Peacemaker is a brain-dead ability, though. Press one button, swing your mouse (or joystick) around, here's your medal. Whether it's more or less brain-dead than other things in the game is debatable, but that debate doesn't change this fact.

This doesn't mean Mesa or her pew-pews are problematic, and it doesn't mean they need nerfing. But if you were to defend a stance that Mesa is well-designed, you'd have a steep uphill battle ahead of you.

Would be nice, if she has at first to inflict the same amount of damage with her "normal" weapons before she can use her fourth ability. This would also encourage to inflict headshots with mesa thanks to the 4-times (or was it lower) headshot multipler.

Edited May 4, 2020 by ES-Flinter

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

 

I don't see an issue. 

Actively trying to ruin a frame because they think its better than another frame is the definition of salty nerf herder. 

Oh yes. Press one then press 4. So difficult. So much more cranial than mesa. Wow. 

 

Equinox has to melee stuff occasionally. Gasp. Sigh. Faint. Wow such skill lol. 

 

Don't let fax stand in the way of a narrative. 

What're you talking about? No ones trying to do anything to Mesa. We're trying to preserve Ash because hes fine.

For some reason, in a game where you move your joystick for every other movement, all of a sudden people are having such a hard time doing it for ash?

This is ulterior motive at its finest. 

I would at least respect you guys if you just admitted you're casual players that aren't that experienced and just want another nuke because you cant be bothered to learn anything.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 hour ago, Pie_mastyr said:

Sure it's not ideal, but when I play normally I had to aim at them anyway so it's not a huge change. But do you think making the marking reticle larger, or even making it snap to enemies could be a possible solution? Rather than just converting the ability to a more generic aoe?

 

No, because you can be a better player and understand something called "positioning". 

You can literally go invisible, go in front of a group of enemies, mark them, and evade/bullet jump/void dash out of the way. Or stand there, I dont care. I do, because I'm a competent player.

[Diavoros]

Used to work similarly but then the dirty diaper babies of our community cried that it wiped all enemies with the press of one key and that took away their fun because they couldn't get mission MVP!
Meanwhile Saryn went through 3 reworks, every next making her more overpowered and just recently got a "nerf" with the changes to status and damage.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Pie_mastyr said:

Ok on the topic of mesa, what if you changed her ultimate to be purely retaliatory. Combine it with her 3, so whenever she gets shot, she does a dodge, leaving an after image that returns fire. Transition mesa to be a pure tank, focusing in on drawing enemy fire

How about we not put mesa in the nerf dumpster for no reason? God its amazing how many terrible unnecessary rework ideas people come up with. 

 

 

[Pie_mastyr]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

No, because you can be a better player and understand something called "positioning". 

You can literally go invisible, go in front of a group of enemies, mark them, and evade/bullet jump/void dash out of the way. Or stand there, I dont care. I do, because I'm a competent player.

Wow it's incredible how much you missed the point. 

First of all, I dont have a problem with bladestorm targeting. I mentioned it earlier but whatever.

Secondly, we were talking about aiming. You know using the ability from a distance? If I am gonna get as close as you suggest I'd much rather just melee the enemies then awkwardly target them with my 4.

Is this a bait? 

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

What're you talking about? No ones trying to do anything to Mesa. We're trying to preserve Ash because hes fine.

For some reason, in a game where you move your joystick for every other movement, all of a sudden people are having such a hard time doing it for ash?

This is ulterior motive at its finest. 

I would at least respect you guys if you just admitted you're casual players that aren't that experienced and just want another nuke because you cant be bothered to learn anything.

Somebody didn't read the thread apparently. Jesus. Maybe give hooked on phonics a try before trying to talk down to people so you don't keep embarrassing yourself.

[Pie_mastyr]

Just now, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

How about we not put mesa in the nerf dumpster for no reason? God its amazing how many terrible unnecessary rework ideas people come up with. 

 

 

Yeesh, sorry man. Thought it was at least worth discussion. But apparently insults are a better use of your time. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

I would at least respect you guys if you just admitted you're casual players that aren't that experienced and just want another nuke because you cant be bothered to learn anything.

 

6 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Somebody didn't read the thread apparently. Jesus. Maybe give hooked on phonics a try before trying to talk down to people so you don't keep embarrassing yourself.

Hey man thank you for defending us against illiterates that pull out the "you're a casual" card 

Couldn't have said it better 😉

Edited May 4, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

4 minutes ago, Pie_mastyr said:

Yeesh, sorry man. Thought it was at least worth discussion. But apparently insults are a better use of your time. 

Welcome to the forums, where it's much easier to belittle people for purple upvotes than it is to form any semblance of coherent discussion and debate.

[carrymaker]

Just give ash clone auto attack but nerf to the ground the damage his 4th ability

 

I am fine and happy

[kwlingo]

Mesa and other nukes are AFK. Ash cannot be considered a nuker because it take individual LOS to trigger the effect. Weapons can kill quicker than Ash's bladestorm.

Edited May 4, 2020 by kwlingo

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

9 minutes ago, Pie_mastyr said:

Wow it's incredible how much you missed the point. 

First of all, I dont have a problem with bladestorm targeting. I mentioned it earlier but whatever.

Secondly, we were talking about aiming. You know using the ability from a distance? If I am gonna get as close as you suggest I'd much rather just melee the enemies then awkwardly target them with my 4.

Is this a bait? 

 

"Blade Storm can be activated while zooming in with a ranged weapon. This can be used to more precisely pick targets."

If you're having that much trouble seeing enemies from far away.

[Pie_mastyr]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Welcome to the forums, where it's much easier to belittle people for purple upvotes than it is to form any semblance of coherent discussion and debate.

Well not to mention what I was suggesting wasnt even necessarily a nerf. I wanted to compress her 4 and 3 to make room for something more engaging. While also getting a new frame for the very small collection of actual tanks. You know, classes that take damage for their allies. 

But Haha, peacemaker go brrrrrrrr

[Pie_mastyr]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

"Blade Storm can be activated while zooming in with a ranged weapon. This can be used to more precisely pick targets."

If you're having that much trouble seeing enemies from far away.

I.... so it was bait, you sly dog you....

More to the point but still missing the fact that

I DONT PERSONALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT. But I do however look at things from other people perspectives. I am looking for a solution that can be a compromise. Instead of trying to look cool by telling everone how good I am at playing ash. 

Check your ego man. It's just ash not 4d chess

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 minute ago, Pie_mastyr said:

I.... so it was bait, you sly dog you....

More to the point but still missing the fact that

I DONT PERSONALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT. But I do however look at things from other people perspectives. I am looking for a solution that can be a compromise. Instead of trying to look cool by telling everone how good I am at playing ash. 

Check your ego man. It's just ash not 4d chess

You stated a problem (the distance) and I provided a solution.

If you think I'm trying to look cool maybe that's some sort of projection thingy you're doing. I don't know.

You can also adjust your mouse's sensitivity so no one feels like they have to whip ashs reticle around. You can make it slower or faster.

You can use various zooming settings from the wide selection of guns the game has as well.

And, as I said before, ones positioning. These are what radar mods are for. "Hey, theres a big blob of red arrows coming my way, maybe I should give myself a good view to mark them all with my Blade Storm."

 

[Sahansral]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Acersecomic:

But Ash is not terrible. Put more than 10 minutes into playing him and you'll see how freaking amazing he still is, for anyone who isn't a lazy spoiled sourpus bum  about his Bladestorm rework that is. Ash's problem comes from Saryns, Mesas, Volts and all the other nukers and nuke weapons like Bramma who clear rooms and tilesets in seconds. He doesn't get to use his Bladestorm because it isn't an instant-win button any more.

But he's in the same game with Saryn, Mesa, Bramma (and every other long range melee weapon). What does Ash offer in Warframe? Where are the high priority targets in a mission that requires a dedicated assassin frame (assuming that such a target would be succeptible to his kit)? Even in disruptions!
The game design vision doesn't seem to be coherant if you look at the developement of those frames over the years. Seems that the devs are split in two groups, too.