Warframe VS Warhammer 40k

[Yrkul]

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Swagernator22663 said:

So basically fanboys vs facts ?

More like downplayers vs facts.

[Corvid]

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

imperial ship can go base speeds of 3/4 the speed of light without WARPING much faster than anything warframe has.

And what's their acceleration? Because it doesn't matter what your top speed is if it takes you ages to reach it. Also, again, Gameplay.

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

On the topic of lisets in the intro we saw one get destoyed by a laser type weapon in the tutorial so not that stong

That's actually a different model of ship included as a nod to the pre-Vor's Prize version. I'd also point out that said "Laser" was from a piece of precursor tech.

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

on the other hand we have thunderhaws and stuff resisting lascannon and other left and right.

I'd also point out that you're comparing a stealth insertion craft with a fighter.

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

Maybe but  corpus have their robotics facilities on the ground and grinner have their labs and cloning facilities,

All of which are just as likely to be in space.

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

and we are sleeping there under lua so by crippling these we can effectivle greatly reduce warframe capabilities.

Were sleeping under Lua. Currently, Tenno are in their Orbiters, and prior to the Second Dream the Reservoir was hidden in the Void.

Tenno are also functionally immortal, in case you'd forgotten.

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

And yeah the ships, in the abulas boss fight we saw frond Beck's ship get destroyed by some ambulas with their lasers.

From inside, and in tandem with a destructive code execution for the Animo core that was on board.

To counter, we have had Corpus ships go up against Fomorians (which I should remind you are capable of destroying Relays in a single shot from their main guns) numerous times without being instantly vaporised, so there's that.

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

Since if a couple of ground support proxy manage to destroy it.

Again, from within, and since it was essentially a suicide attack, it's likely that the Ambulas units were outputting more energy than they normally would.

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

Not really since the warframe can be killed by lancers.

By that logic, Space marines are weak because they can be killed by a lasgun in the various games (as well as in lore occasionally). Sure, it can happen, but it is so unlikely that it may as well not be considered.

Note how in the official comics, a single Mag with a Boltor was a sufficient threat to drive an entire Grineer army into retreat. Likewise, the Tennocon cinematic shows a trio of Warframes tearing through Grineer and Dax soldiers alike, barely if ever taking any hits.

34 minutes ago, Follordark said:

try killing a lvl175 one with on hp or armor or any mods on yourself and see how fast you die

Since we've already confirmed that mods are an in-universe enhancement, and there are no places where a player will naturally encounter enemies at that level, I fail to see what that proves.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

3 hours ago, Technomagos said:

literally isn't a competition. Most things in 40k would roflstomp even the Tenno

no most things on 40k are weak is just few things on 40k are extremely overpowerd to unfamable proportions 

[Corvid]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

no most things on 40k are weak is just few things on 40k are extremely overpowerd to unfamable proportions 

And said overpowered things are often exaggerated.

The star destruction that another poster mentioned? Assuming that they were referring to the Celestial Orrery, sure, it's capable of that. However, it will pretty much never be used because it causes damage to the fabric of reality to use it in such a way.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

3 minutes ago, Corvid said:

And said overpowered things are often exaggerated.

The star destruction that another poster mentioned? Assuming that they were referring to the Celestial Orrery, sure, it's capable of that. However, it will pretty much never be used because it causes damage to the fabric of reality to use it in such a way.

that is one of the main desvantages of 40k that none mentions the cost of using it

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

that is one of the main desvantages of 40k that none mentions the cost of using it

They also tend to forget that a lot of the lore is considered to be in-universe propaganda, and may not actually be an accurate reflection of the setting (out-of-universe, this is Games Workshop's official explanation for inconsistencies between the various portions of the franchise).

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

They also tend to forget that a lot of the lore is considered to be in-universe propaganda, and may not actually be an accurate reflection of the setting (out-of-universe, this is Games Workshop's official explanation for inconsistencies between the various portions of the franchise).

Yet another parallel, because the Grineer love to do the same thing (and makes a convenient excuse for why the muzzle flashes in the Ghouls comic are so absurdly massive for guns that aren't anywhere near that caliber)

[Corvid]

25 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yet another parallel, because the Grineer love to do the same thing

Except there's no indication that Warframe's media follows the same "in-universe propaganda" rule. As far as official statements go, if a piece of media is considered canon, it's an accurate depiction of the Warframe setting.

 

27 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

(and makes a convenient excuse for why the muzzle flashes in the Ghouls comic are so absurdly massive for guns that aren't anywhere near that caliber)

Or maybe, y'know, the weapons might be powerful enough to warrant the large flashes. That's always a possibility.

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Except there's no indication that Warframe's media follows the same "in-universe propaganda" rule. As far as official statements go, if a piece of media is considered canon, it's an accurate depiction of the Warframe setting.

I was only talking about the Grineer. It's even a gameplay mechanic, not that it seems to make much difference

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Or maybe, y'know, the weapons might be powerful enough to warrant the large flashes. That's always a possibility.

They really, really aren't:

1) Why do they have so much trouble killing Corpus?

2) The Orokin gave them intentionally underpowered weapons. Partly to limit Sentient reverse-engineering, partly because they're slaves and who gives slaves the good guns?

[Loza03]

19 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

2) The Orokin gave them intentionally underpowered weapons. Partly to limit Sentient reverse-engineering, partly because they're slaves and who gives slaves the good guns?

I'd like to point out that, whilst this might be true, there's been a thousand-odd years of engineering since then. So their guns are probably a lot better than they were in Orokin times.

[Crusher4881]

I'm pretty sure that in any sort of ground combat, a four-Tenno squad can curb-stomp almost any ground force. Limbo's stasis when combined with cataclysm and well-placed banishments can render elite enemies incapable of doing anything, Nova's molecular prime or Saryn's toxic attacks can cause a chain reaction that wipes out hordes of weaker enemies, and Mesa can rapid-fire pistol shots at an obscene rate to clear out everything in between. We have access to weapons such as the Kuva Bramma or Arca Plasmor that can blast apart hordes easily, and these weapons are battle-tested against enemy supersoldiers on a regular basis.

Now, that normally wouldn't be useful for stopping an exterminatus, but the Tenno landing craft are capable of initiating stealth insertion into Grineer and Corpus vessels, and have done so for many years with no signs of their targets ever discovering any sort of countermeasure against these intrusions. If a thousand ships came to the Origin System to try to exterminatus it, the millions of Tenno would respond by boarding those hostile ships and obliterating their crew before they could get in range.

There's also the factor that high-level Sentient or Sentient-derived units are shown to be literally invulnerable to conventional weapons. Though the Eidolon is a rogue sentient with its own goals, Profit-Taker orb would be able to take on and wipe out any army sent to engage it, and if the Sentients were allied, their Murex ships would likely have similar shielding.

[Corvid]

3 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I'd like to point out that, whilst this might be true, there's been a thousand-odd years of engineering since then. So their guns are probably a lot better than they were in Orokin times.

We also see the sorts of weapons they used back then in the Tennocon cinematic, and they weren't exactly primitive to start off with.

30 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I was only talking about the Grineer. It's even a gameplay mechanic, not that it seems to make much difference

Then you were misinterpreting my point. A lot of the material from the Black Library contradicts other Warhammer media, presenting wildly differing accounts of what should be relatively consistent things. The result is that we can't take all of Warhammer's lore at face value. That is different from an in-universe use of propaganda that we know the truth about.

[TARINunit9]

@Corvid

Rather than get into a shouting match, I'd like to offer a philosophical point about why I think a Grakata is closer to a 9mm SMG than a fully-automatic coilgun:

When trying to nail down canonicity in universes where author's obviously don't stick to hard science, outliers will inevitably crop up. When this happens you have a few options:

Ignore. I don't think any of us consider Mario's ability to quantum tunnel through parallel universes to be canon

Rationalize. There's a plot hole in Silent Hill 4 where Dahlia (evil cult leader from SH1) teaches Walter (future serial killer) the Ritual of the 21 Sacraments. Taken at face value this makes no sense, because the cult considers the 21 to be heresy, and Dahlia doesn't care either way. The rationale for this outlier, then, is to say "she taught him the 21" in the same way as "I learned what the Seven Deadly Sins are in Sunday school", technically true and much closer to Dahlia's character

Accept. Sometimes you don't have a choice, such as how Link can lift several tons of rock from a deadlift to access a puzzle in Ocarina of Time, but never shows this level of strength when hitting things with his sword

Power creep. In contrast to the Mario example, the Doom community considers Doomguy's ability to run 50mph to be strictly canon, even though this is an engine bug called Wallrunning

[Corvid]

Except the only outlier in the Grakata's case is the low end that you insist upon. When it is treated as consistently higher in every other case, the rational stance is to accept that the low end shouldn't be used to define it.

I'd also like to point out that at no point did I say it behaved like a coilgun. My only stance is that weapons in Warframe are sufficiently stronger than modern small arms that to equivocate the two is disingenuous.

If I wanted to be absurd, I would point out that an unranked Lato is able to shatter a football-sized chunk of rock in a single shot, or that a single bullet from certain weapons can bisect an armoured human vertically.

Also, for your Link example, I'd recommend you look up the difference between lifting strength and striking force, because they are very different in terms of what they require of the body (to say nothing of the fact that a sword doesn't suddenly become more resistant to snapping just because it's picked up by a stronger wielder). The Doomguy thing is also highly disputed in pretty much every site that handles these sorts of debates.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

4 hours ago, Follordark said:

Well I think this is a great time to stop the discussion since this is effectively going nowhere, We dont have enough lore about the strength of grineer and corpus and what are they capable of.plus we don't know the exact amount of canonical active tennos  and the strength of and size of warframe ships and we what are mods and how are they aplied in universe like are they just sets of cards or are they modules that you add and how resilient is a warfarme ect.We don't  have enough info on warframe to make this debate go anywhere.

whe have the cannon size of some  ships like the railjack 225 meters we know that the base damage of the weapons and base stats of the enemy how mod affect those stats and the limit of them and how strong warframe are we have we don't have the on the 40k side

[(PSN)yokai1235]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I was only talking about the Grineer. It's even a gameplay mechanic, not that it seems to make much difference

They really, really aren't:

1) Why do they have so much trouble killing Corpus?

2) The Orokin gave them intentionally underpowered weapons. Partly to limit Sentient reverse-engineering, partly because they're slaves and who gives slaves the good guns?

actually no corpus use a lot of machines that are resistantto chemical weapons and there ships have really good shields and are produced on higher quantities 

[TARINunit9]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

actually no corpus use a lot of machines that are resistantto chemical weapons and there ships have really good shields and are produced on higher quantities 

I think you quoted the wrong post of mine

Corpus do indeed have powerful shields for capital ships -- able to stalemate against Balor Formorians -- but infantry shields are quite weak (proportionally weak), often only about as durable as the guy inside. They would only give any level of protection against the Imperial lasergun and maybe the autogun, while bolters would tear through them just like Tenno weapons

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, Corvid said:

Except the only outlier in the Grakata's case is the low end that you insist upon. When it is treated as consistently higher in every other case, the rational stance is to accept that the low end shouldn't be used to define it.

Please point to me some evidence of the Grakata being really powerful. Every piece of lore and lore-friendly-gameplay I can find shows the Grakata having a high rate of fire just to achieve any damage at all:

Lvl1 crewmen and rescue targets have 100 flesh HP, so I use this as a baseline for the human body. The Grakata's base damage is 11. Now obviously I don't take those super literally, but it still seems a big indication that a trained human warrior wearing combat gear won't get pulped in a single shot

Baro's mother was executed with a four-round Grakata burst. Remember, this was an execution, not a combat maneuver, yet the Grineer still needed to double-tap for standard operating procedure

The pseudo-Prime Grakata bullets can be seen in the Cinematic Trailer, suspended in midair by Mag's powers. They are not very big bullets at all, comparable to 20th century FMJ rounds

[(PSN)yokai1235]

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I think you quoted the wrong post of mine

Corpus do indeed have powerful shields for capital ships -- able to stalemate against Balor Formorians -- but infantry shields are quite weak (proportionally weak), often only about as durable as the guy inside. They would only give any level of protection against the Imperial lasergun and maybe the autogun, while bolters would tear through them just like Tenno weapons

actually no the corpus shild are used to block and bownce away  kinetic force if they're power is proportional to the impact that also de added the motive they die fast is because de added a weak point they don't have on lore the haead shoot shouldn'tgive double damage but instead block by the helmet that's why they're helmets pop off when hit

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, Corvid said:

My only stance is that weapons in Warframe are sufficiently stronger than modern small arms that to equivocate the two is disingenuous.

Ok if this is where out miscommunication is taking place, I would like to apologize for hostilities. In my original post i intended (and apparently failed) to equivocate the Grakata and Hind to the Imperial autogun. In 40k it's generally accepted that yes, the autogun is probably better than an M16 or MP5, but the lasgun and the bolter are themselves far better than any of the above

[peq42]

One thing I had forgotten to mention about railjacks: they can make blackholes. One of those could easilly destroy ships much larger than it.

[Urlan]

On 2020-06-17 at 7:20 PM, elpeleq42 said:

One thing I had forgotten to mention about railjacks: they can make blackholes. One of those could easilly destroy ships much larger than it.

That isn't uncommon for ships in the Warhammer 40k universe as well. Course most of those ships are also huge and some of the basic shells some of those huge ships fire can crack planets and moons causing extinction events, but those aren't even what they fire for actual relatively common events they perform called suitably Exterminatus, where they make sure a planet is either blown to atoms or otherwise freed of the itchy wet skin of life. Eldar ship armament tends to be more closely matched to our ship Void abilities as per your example, being heavy duty psykers and their ships being made out of psychic reactive materials boosting that even more and their control of blackhole tech being to the degree that one of their ancient members (still around in the modern setting) sent his enemies small present boxes with fully active blackholes inside to prove points.

[Cyba_Zero]

OK so here's a question: what if Warframe plays sneaky? Say the Worm Queen performs continuity on a suitably important but weak-minded person and ultimately gains control of her own non-negligible Warhammer faction, complete with tech. Anybody fancy a Grineer spacemarine chapter, now also spiked with Kuva so they can't die? Or maybe she'd have better odds of success with a different faction?

Also how much mayhem could a cephalon or sentient cause if it got access to the right computer systems, and how wide a sphere of influence could it reach?

[peq42]

7 hours ago, Follordark said:

 

and the fact is that warframe are pretty weak since we know that they are made of flesh and thus should be easily penetrated by any kind of monomolecular style weapons such as shurikens and splinter weapons and even chain swords to an extent.

on the topic of melee weapons warframe really does not have any kind of powered weapons that can mach the power of their imperial counterparts.Such as the power sword,axe mauls and other non imperial weapons such as the transonic blade and phase swords.

And that not counting on the biggest weakness of warframes:The lack of psychic defense since the tenno are really not that skilled at void stuff compared to psykers since even an Beta class psykers can do all kind of nasty stuff to you and we dont know how the transference stuff works specifically but we know that it can be disrupted so its not hard to imagine that an imperial psyker could disrupt the transferance link and render warframes into inanimated piles of flesh.

they may not resist those(well, nothing should, not even the armor used in warhammer 40k) but they may easilly recover from being cut by them(with rejuvenation, Arcane Grace, sentinel's healing or even with life stealing weapons such as hirudo). Or, in case you dont agree with using in-game things, it would be even easier since as we can see in "the sacrifice" quest, warframes can have an ABSURDLY FAST regeneration system(see how umbra recovered his face in a second). Also, warframes are probably very easy to be repaired, since as shown in the second dream quest, no matter how many warframes stalker has slayed, their numbers never decrease, and we also have oro for instant repair them a few times.

 

We've a sword made out of sentient bones and energy, Zenistar that is a heavy hammer with a disk capable of outputing any element, hirodu that whenever deals damage, absorbs said damage transforming into health to the owner, a staff that converts living beings into life and machines into energy, exalted weapons that can cut steel like a hot knife cuts butter, a huge hammer with an engine on the back, swords that intoxicate or infect enemies with desease,etc

 

transference used to be able to be disrupted when we were using machines to do it(the throne at the orbiter and the other on the moon), but ever since war within nothing has done. Quite the opposite, as the war within quest has showed, the tenno powers are now so strong that even Kuva and high-end orokin tech can't invade the operator's mind anymore. The only thing that still manages to "get inside our minds" is the man in the wall, but he's expected to be a GOD(since he's the very manifestation of the void itself) and he uses persuasion most of the time so that doesn't count.