Force Start in groups..... this is just a big fat nope!

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

31 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

That was just a stat I came up with on the spot.  Only reason I brought it up is because it's been an counter argument in previous threads, it has no basis in fact.

I really don't want to start adding disclaimers to my posts. 

I get that, just felt like since the suggestion was made, and we're actually talking about it, that it would be good to present that experience to show that the feature might run into quite a few more speed bumps than people might think. 

Wasn't suggesting that you intended to actually mislead anyone in any way. Especially since you pointed out the possibility of the situation in your post. 

[sitfesz]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You need to be careful about how you are quoting. You are showing me as saying something I didn't. 

 

And regarding what you wrote above, that's how compassion works, it's when you understand that even though you may not have a problem, others might. So them having technical difficulties, or in fact any other difficulties, and trying to deal with that is something that we can consider. 

And upon consideration, does it seem like a great idea to force start the missions, instead of just leaving and joining a new group, or do it solo? How is adding to someone's problems a better solution in your mind? 

Sorry, edited that.

No, I leave before joining another fast fissure, because afk people don't pick relics and that hurts farming efficiency.

The question is: Why should the one that is ready leave, and not the one who isn't? If I'm not leaving the squad instantly, because I'm afk, I have no problem leaving the mission I was dragged into.

This whole topic is about proving people who force start are bad. As I see, people who demand others to wait are worse.

[SneakyErvin]

Why is it always the lone player that thinks they have the right to something? You dont make three others wait for your personal needs, at that point you should leave the group, unless it is a pre-made where everyone is in on it.

Grabbing a bottle of water that takes 2 seconds should not be the priority. If you dont wanna get forced into a new mission with the wrong loadout, pick the loadout first, then get your water. The mission countdown along with the loadtime should be more than enough to grab several bottles of water. If you need to pee you do the same, switch loadout, got to the toilet and come back to a loaded mission.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, sitfesz said:

Sorry, edited that.

No, I leave before joining another fast fissure, because afk people don't pick relics and that hurts farming efficiency.

The question is: Why should the one that is ready leave, and not the one who isn't? If I'm not leaving the squad instantly, because I'm afk, I have no problem leaving the mission I was dragged into.

This whole topic is about proving people who force start are bad. As I see, people who demand others to wait are worse.

No people who force start aren't bad per se. Happens by accident, and that's not a major issue. 

But there are people who are trying to defend force starting every time, even in situations where they know that someone is not ready, or has notified the group that they need a moment to prepare. 

That behaviour is toxic. It negatively impacts on the enjoyment others get. 

Nobody is asking that people stay in the group for an unlimited amount of time. Nobody is advocating forcing others to wait while you are messing around. 

Most of us said that we part from the group if we know there's something that will delay the mission. 

And here's the difference between the players, you can force a group to start, nobody can force a group to wait for them. Do you see the significance? 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why is it always the lone player that thinks they have the right to something? You dont make three others wait for your personal needs, at that point you should leave the group, unless it is a pre-made where everyone is in on it.

There are literally examples given of people who are force starting the mission in this thread. Is that somehow not the action of a lone player thinking that they have the right to do something? 

[dwqrf]

il y a une heure, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

You literally argued that your lost time waiting for your squad to prepare for a mission is a huge deal. Then you literally argue that my lost time in a mission (certainly more than I would have usually waited on someone who isn't voting to start the mission unannounced) due to the incompetence of the rest of the squad is nothing?

If you considered the mission you chose and started a loss of time, because of the way other people play, it's on you. And then, you discredit their effort and make 3 player waste their time by leaving at first A. Because that's what egoists do.

il y a une heure, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Also, here's the thing, I already have all focus schools maxed out. I don't currently have any items not already at max rank. For you, farming XP might be a major incentive, but it isn't something that I need to worry about.

But the XP the three other people were farming ? Ho right, let's remove 25% of it, because you disliked the run. That's what egoists do.

il y a une heure, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

You seem frustrated that you have said silly things to defend your bad manners and been repeatedly called out on the flaws. You would be better off not making silly comments, than trying to double down with strawman attacks and ad hominem.

You have issues, pal. You might want to deal with them. 

You have a problem. Your behaviour creates a problem for others.

And remember your best option is to not play with others at all if you can't manage their behaviour. Since you are saying that you are able to solo, that shouldn't be an issue for you. 

(Gosh everything you say really is a double edged sword, isn't it? You're literally slicing your own arguments to pieces.)

Projection, Ad HoMiNeM, obvious lack of respect. But as someone said, logic isn't your strong suit. Funny that you had to reply with "logic isn't your strong suit". Bwhahaha.

YOU play in public. YOU go afk in a public lobby and get force started. YOU complain about it and cry like a baby. I don't. Let me quote you again : "remember your best option is to not play with others at all if you can't manage their behaviour". Take you own advice or don't give it.

Now, you are going to call me an egoist because I force start, it's obvious, you have no other logical reasoning. You know when I force start ? When I am in a group with friends and the one or two last players are randoms, afk in lobby, and don't consider or communicate after a mission vote. Then I force start. I try to make a better time management for me AND my buddy, while ignoring the time management of one or two AFKs. How can I waste their valuable time if their are not there ? At best, they come back to their computer and are like "ho thank god someone saved me launching and loading so I can play directly after getting my water". At worst, they can quit the mission and lose 30s of loading of time, but that wouldn't have happened if they quited the lobby before afking, so it's on them.

Should I wait or disband everysingle time that some random go afk during a mission vote, accepted by one, two, or three players ? Hell no. Thanks DE for the force start option. At least THEY understand that it isn't much of an issue. Only snowflake are disturbed by such actions.

[Zimzala]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And here's the difference between the players, you can force a group to start, nobody can force a group to wait for them. Do you see the significance? 

This requires patience, emapthy, and compassion, so ...

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Well personally I would leave. But from your posts what you seem to be saying is that you would not only stay there basking, but try to take them with you, wherever you are going. 

Now I know that logic isn't your strong suit, but is that really the message you wanted to send? That you would not leave? 

judging from how u approach force start ur answer is either a lie or just plain wrong

so even by that logic is not ur strongest suit not mine

keep inhaling
deep breaths

[MagPrime]

43 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why is it always the lone player that thinks they have the right to something? You dont make three others wait for your personal needs, at that point you should leave the group, unless it is a pre-made where everyone is in on it.

Grabbing a bottle of water that takes 2 seconds should not be the priority. If you dont wanna get forced into a new mission with the wrong loadout, pick the loadout first, then get your water. The mission countdown along with the loadtime should be more than enough to grab several bottles of water. If you need to pee you do the same, switch loadout, got to the toilet and come back to a loaded mission.

For the most part I agree but in my experience it's not always that simple.  I've experienced players who loaded out first and force started before I even got fully back into the Liset.

Load in > hit esc to clear last mission results > hit esc to hit up armory > loading into another mission

That's my issue, not prioritizing when to get water or anything else, just not having the time to do anything but play the loading screen. 

[2ndPersonPlural]

On 2020-06-07 at 1:01 PM, ZeroX4 said:

1 - what prevents u from leaving?
2 - if someone force start that would mean waiting for u is just waste of time since rest of the squad can manage
3 - waiting for u to be back with ur drink and press ready? yeah that sounds like fun
4 - if u dont wanna get force start play solo simple as that

i force start every sortie mission i play and i meet ppl like u and they are like wtf cant u wait why force start?
and im like wait for what? i dont need ur help to do this mission and ur free to leave at any time so whats ur problem?
and they are like it would be nice to wait for others to press ready
and then i reply with yeah thx but no thx im not here to waste my time if u wanna waste ur hit leave do what u want to do and go find other squad

it does not need to be nice or friendly what i wrote but just think about it for a moment
is wasting other players time just cause u need to get a drink or forma ur stuff ok?

and on top of that me u or any1 else came to warframe to play or wait?

Maybe I want to switch my aura or something after I see what the rest of the squad has.  Give people a few seconds before you pull everyone in.

If we wanted mindless action we'd play CoD or something.  Let people play with their loadouts, that's Warframe's one unique thing.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

25 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

judging from how u approach force start ur answer is either a lie or just plain wrong

so even by that logic is not ur strongest suit not mine

keep inhaling
deep breaths

Nope. I already showed my complete willingness to leave groups where I felt like some aspect of the team was a problem. I even indicated that I usually try to leave a group rather than delay the start or bail during the mission. Most of the people in this thread agree with those courses of actions.

You on the other hand have repeatedly expressed that you see no reason to remove yourself from such a situation. Instead of leaving the group you instead, continue, dragging those people along with you willing or not. You aren't just "not leaving", you're insisting on the right to stay with them, by hook or by crook. 

 

You're one of a handful that insist on your "rights" to do whatever you feel, whenever and frankly some of the views you wrote might suggest that you have deeper issues as far as coping with society goes. 

I know that in your primary school or even high school being crass and having a laugh about faring was considered cool. But you need to understand that most of us have gotten past that point. The fact that you're still struggling with the concept of basic manners only suggests that you aren't. 

Good luck to you, Tenno. 

[-HG-Lair360]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why is it always the lone player that thinks they have the right to something? You dont make three others wait for your personal needs, at that point you should leave the group, unless it is a pre-made where everyone is in on it.

Grabbing a bottle of water that takes 2 seconds should not be the priority. If you dont wanna get forced into a new mission with the wrong loadout, pick the loadout first, then get your water. The mission countdown along with the loadtime should be more than enough to grab several bottles of water. If you need to pee you do the same, switch loadout, got to the toilet and come back to a loaded mission.

But the thing is, you sometime don't get that chance to change loadouts, the instance you are in... you get a force start by somone. Even worse, when you are the host, they do that? Seriously, have fun host migrating...

I play with groups I know now. We all have the patience and said: "Anyone needs toilet? Pls go now." "Anyone needs to change load out? We are doing SPY" "Survival, try picking something for long run.... etc...."

Its all about teamwork and coordination!

We all never force start unless by mistake or accident.

[SneakyErvin]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

There are literally examples given of people who are force starting the mission in this thread. Is that somehow not the action of a lone player thinking that they have the right to do something? 

It goes both ways for me, someone not being able to wait for 3 should do the same, the single person should leave in the end. And I'm not supporting people that stress force, but if you sit there with 3 checked boxes and the 4th is doing something not even the gods know then whoever forces the mission does the right thing. It shouldnt take longer than 10 seconds to swap between loadouts if your intent is to run several different missions on end. Mostly I dont force start, but then again I mostly play in groups when it comes to fissures, so I want people to pick their relics. The cases where I do force start is in sorties when people just wont "check" the mission after several seconds and there is no actual need to swap loadout from the previous mission. If I'm the host I also force host if I run something 100% mindless like capture to farm relics, if people dont wanna chain run they can leave, I'm only running it in public to benefit newer players.

14 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

For the most part I agree but in my experience it's not always that simple.  I've experienced players who loaded out first and force started before I even got fully back into the Liset.

Load in > hit esc to clear last mission results > hit esc to hit up armory > loading into another mission

That's my issue, not prioritizing when to get water or anything else, just not having the time to do anything but play the loading screen. 

I agree with you fully. There is a timeframe that needs to be acceptable that people should consider before mashing the play button. I only avoid that timeframe when I host and run the most trivial star chart missions since people can leave without forcing host migrations on others, or they can stay and afk while I do the mission. If I'm the client I will only force start in sortie missions when the 4th guy wont check.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

38 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It goes both ways for me, someone not being able to wait for 3 should do the same, the single person should leave in the end. And I'm not supporting people that stress force, but if you sit there with 3 checked boxes and the 4th is doing something not even the gods know then whoever forces the mission does the right thing. It shouldnt take longer than 10 seconds to swap between loadouts if your intent is to run several different missions on end. Mostly I dont force start, but then again I mostly play in groups when it comes to fissures, so I want people to pick their relics. The cases where I do force start is in sorties when people just wont "check" the mission after several seconds and there is no actual need to swap loadout from the previous mission. If I'm the host I also force host if I run something 100% mindless like capture to farm relics, if people dont wanna chain run they can leave, I'm only running it in public to benefit newer players.

And the majority of the thread agrees with this line of thought, myself included. It's bad manners to make everyone else wait because I have something else happening so I would leave. 

But there are people who are advocating to force start regardless of the situation, simply because they are ready. That sort of thing is pretty toxic, and a lot of the posts from the people espousing that view seem intent on proving that they are toxic in a lot of ways. 

[ZeroX4]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Nope. I already showed my complete willingness to leave groups where I felt like some aspect of the team was a problem. I even indicated that I usually try to leave a group rather than delay the start or bail during the mission. Most of the people in this thread agree with those courses of actions.

You on the other hand have repeatedly expressed that you see no reason to remove yourself from such a situation. Instead of leaving the group you instead, continue, dragging those people along with you willing or not. You aren't just "not leaving", you're insisting on the right to stay with them, by hook or by crook. 

 

You're one of a handful that insist on your "rights" to do whatever you feel, whenever and frankly some of the views you wrote might suggest that you have deeper issues as far as coping with society goes. 

I know that in your primary school or even high school being crass and having a laugh about faring was considered cool. But you need to understand that most of us have gotten past that point. The fact that you're still struggling with the concept of basic manners only suggests that you aren't. 

Good luck to you, Tenno. 

let me put it simple since i see u struggle

we are in a squad and between mission u say brb i go get some drink so dont start
and i say i gonna force start so u leave if u want to

would u leave or complain?

since if u would leave there should not be any problem for u to leave after i force start and we get into mission other than ur ego
if u would complain instead of leaving then ur ego alone is issue here

either way ur the problem and players like u not like me

[ZeroX4]

2 hours ago, 2ndPersonPlural said:

Maybe I want to switch my aura or something after I see what the rest of the squad has.  Give people a few seconds before you pull everyone in.

If we wanted mindless action we'd play CoD or something.  Let people play with their loadouts, that's Warframe's one unique thing.

maybe u wanna go to toilet for a bigger adventure
u go into public squad and u expect some special threatment?

can i just play the game instead of hearing complains from players like u that i didnt wait?
the fact that u or any1 in a squad is unprepared for mission is not my fault or my problem but urs or theirs

but on top of that is giving people a few seconds my choice? or my duty? cause if its my choice can i choose not to? pretty please
or am i obligated to play the game as u and likes u imagine?

[Softballbryan]

On 2020-06-07 at 12:01 PM, ZeroX4 said:

1 - what prevents u from leaving?
2 - if someone force start that would mean waiting for u is just waste of time since rest of the squad can manage
3 - waiting for u to be back with ur drink and press ready? yeah that sounds like fun
4 - if u dont wanna get force start play solo simple as that

i force start every sortie mission i play and i meet ppl like u and they are like wtf cant u wait why force start?
and im like wait for what? i dont need ur help to do this mission and ur free to leave at any time so whats ur problem?
and they are like it would be nice to wait for others to press ready
and then i reply with yeah thx but no thx im not here to waste my time if u wanna waste ur hit leave do what u want to do and go find other squad

it does not need to be nice or friendly what i wrote but just think about it for a moment
is wasting other players time just cause u need to get a drink or forma ur stuff ok?

and on top of that me u or any1 else came to warframe to play or wait?

You are a selfish player. 

[Zimzala]

Just now, Softballbryan said:

You are a selfish player. 

I'd say more impatient, personally.

Both sides of this have both valid points and invalid points, IMO.

What I see mainly is just hard-wired impatience and a lack of empathy as to why that impatience is sometimes seen as offensive.

I won't call it immature, simply because I see it happen at all ages.

Typical gamer bravado, some of it more distasteful, some of it justified, IMO, from very self-important gamers.

All reasons I continue to solo, to avoind all this llama drama while trying to relax. 🙂 

[(PSN)JohnWickHitman]

If "force" starts are not what you like, maybe you should put your eff'n headset on and speak the eff up, instead of sitting there like a mute on a poo pile!!

 

Otherwise, deal with what happens.

In PUB's, you keep up or leave/get left behind.

They/we are not here spamming exp/fissure runs for our online time back to back, to sit and wait on some slow poke who can't get his poo together.

 

In PUB's, keep up, speak up, or bow the eff out and run Premade/solo....Not that hard people!

[Zimzala]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

In PUB's, keep up, speak up, or bow the eff out and run Premade/solo....Not that hard people!

I would postulate it's "not that hard" to also have a little compassion and and empathy for your fellow players, even while participating in PuGs, over a blanket attitude of "keep up" or "bow the eff out" ... you know ... comprimise, diplomacy, community building and the like don't have to be thrown out the window, while still keeping a reasonble pace to the flow of gameplay.

It's disingenuous for anyone to try and lay out a 'my way or the highway' attitude for PuGs, regardless of what level of 'nice' you choose to have in terms of time management. There simply is no single right way, it does not exist.

I won't blindly follow the tune of another drummer, nor do I expect others to follow mine blindly, but there is no reason to be aggressive jerk about any of it, people can choose to treat each other with respect, patient and impatient gamers all have that choice.

[ZeroX4]

5 hours ago, Softballbryan said:

You are a selfish player. 

sorry im selfish cause i value my time and dont want to waste it on others?

selfish player is the one that expect special treatment i dont expect anything from any1 so think twice before u judge cause when u try to sound smart u just sound stupid
 

[DatDarkOne]

[-HG-Lair360]

4 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

sorry im selfish cause i value my time and dont want to waste it on others?

selfish player is the one that expect special treatment i dont expect anything from any1 so think twice before u judge cause when u try to sound smart u just sound stupid
 

Judging from previous posts, yourself and other players, like you... sigh... described that other players are  ‘entitled snowflakes’ and requires ‘special treatment’! That is over the line...

If your kind don’t like teamwork and have some compassion for other players, then get out of the group that are trying to have FUN the way WE PLAY! 
 

For those who are host and is against force start, please please don’t leave. Please speak up and say you are the host. After multiple times that person don’t stop force start, then leave.

I had a friend and 2 randoms. One act like Zerox4 and dwqrf, for example... like ‘this game session is not yours! I will force start’ and didn’t say sorry or did by accident while we are trying to change frames or pick a different weapon for the job!!! Not only once, twice... it’s multiple times! We even said STOP force starting! 

Seriously!!!  Your kind has no compassion at all.... 

[(PSN)Reinbach_3rd]

I don't mind force starting with 3 exceptions;

1: Relics (The loot chances are worse if someone doesn't get to pick a relic in time)

2: Murmurs (Give people time to change their Parazon mods)

3: They pick a completely different mission to the one that just finished. (I don't care how dead it is, I'm not going to play Lunaro with you)

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, -HG-Lair360 said:

Judging from previous posts, yourself and other players, like you... sigh... described that other players are  ‘entitled snowflakes’ and requires ‘special treatment’! That is over the line...

If your kind don’t like teamwork and have some compassion for other players, then get out of the group that are trying to have FUN the way WE PLAY! 
 

For those who are host and is against force start, please please don’t leave. Please speak up and say you are the host. After multiple times that person don’t stop force start, then leave.

I had a friend and 2 randoms. One act like Zerox4 and dwqrf, for example... like ‘this game session is not yours! I will force start’ and didn’t say sorry or did by accident while we are trying to change frames or pick a different weapon for the job!!! Not only once, twice... it’s multiple times! We even said STOP force starting! 

Seriously!!!  Your kind has no compassion at all.... 

wat? i force start even when im not host

look no1 here doing it to other players just to piss them off
we just value our time we go online to play not to waste our time

if waiting for u or any1 else is A CHOICE we can make can we have right not to?

can it be like if u ask me to wait cause u didk want to go get a drink can i have OPTION to say NO? and just proceed with mission start

or are u and likes u here trying to force their ideology upon others and tell them how to play?

in the end think about u or any1 elese wont grind for me wont give me extra time so can i manage my time and how i play by myself instead of taking ur or any1 else advices?