Xoris Interactions With Warframe Abilities & Exalted Weapons

[Leqesai]

8 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Like what? People that saw something unintended as something unintended? Because that's not a problem. Because it was unintended, and while DE's reaction may have been too far, they couldn't have done nothing about it. SMH.

The point is that DE's response is addressing a non-existent issue. Xoris working the way it does is not what makes the abilities overpowered. But this is the stance they've taken. They refuse to acknowledge that Xoris isn't the issue here and have ignored the playerbase that has extensively tested this since the topic was raised. Heck, there is a post-nerf video with Venka one-shotting entire groups of level 170 enemies. 

 

DE should really be assessing its communication methodology and get some people running their forums who have some PR skills to help explain things and to better cover their bottoms when they make mistakes like this. Were they to simply state that Xoris's interactions with the listed abilities was unintended we would not be having this conversation. They said, however, that Xoris made the abilities overpowered which is simply untrue. This makes their justification inappropriate.

[AkuVonFramenstein]

5 hours ago, Leqesai said:

The point is that DE's response is addressing a non-existent issue. Xoris working the way it does is not what makes the abilities overpowered. But this is the stance they've taken. They refuse to acknowledge that Xoris isn't the issue here and have ignored the playerbase that has extensively tested this since the topic was raised. Heck, there is a post-nerf video with Venka one-shotting entire groups of level 170 enemies. 

 

DE should really be assessing its communication methodology and get some people running their forums who have some PR skills to help explain things and to better cover their bottoms when they make mistakes like this. Were they to simply state that Xoris's interactions with the listed abilities was unintended we would not be having this conversation. They said, however, that Xoris made the abilities overpowered which is simply untrue. This makes their justification inappropriate.

 

5 hours ago, Leqesai said:

While the interaction may not have been intended the reason for the change is factually untrue. They claim that the Xoris makes the abilities in question overpowered. It does not. The abilities are already overpowered, which has been explained over the course of 50 pages in this topic.

Ah! But see, this is what people don't get. They mistakenly think that Xoris got nerfed because it makes abilities in question overpowered. DE explicitly mentions that melee combo being infinite/not resetting is their reason, twice. TWICE.

[GREF_TM]

  

On 2020-07-10 at 2:27 PM, AkuVonFramenstein said:

 

Ah! But see, this is what people don't get. They mistakenly think that Xoris got nerfed because it makes abilities in question overpowered. DE explicitly mentions that melee combo being infinite/not resetting is their reason, twice. TWICE.

  Yes but actually no. Here are two issues stated:

On 2020-07-02 at 1:55 AM, [DE]Megan said:

The first issue: The Xoris’ infinite Melee Combo Duration directly amplifies the Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities that won't reset/decay unless you detonate the Xoris manually using heavy attack

There isn't any direct damage amplification compared to other stat sticks for abilities that don't scale with damage mods, and for those which do, it's actually a damage drop rather than damage amplification.

On 2020-07-02 at 1:55 AM, [DE]Megan said:

The second issue: The interaction with the Xoris and Gladiator Mod Set for Warframe Exalted weapons. The Gladiator Mod Set bonus is being carried over from the equipped Melee to the Exalted Warframe weapons such as Baruuk’s Serene Storm, Excalibur’s Exalted Blade, Valkyr’s Talons and Wukong’s Iron Staff.

That's a bug with gladiator set mods that is presented for several months now. Why are they using it as a justification for xoris nerf, instead of fixing an actual bug?

 

But the best part is this:

On 2020-07-02 at 1:55 AM, [DE]Megan said:

However, the overwhelming Damage output of certain Warframe Abilities was not our intention with an infinite Melee Combo weapon, and the conversation of ‘Xoris or you’re doing it wrong’ is greatly restrictive in terms of player choice.

1) "overwhelming" damage paired with infinite duration isn't OK, yet rivens giving you more than double of that damage and only slowly decaying with naramon (which isn't even that much of a problem, since most of those abilities refresh combo counter on hit anyway) is perfectly fine? Cool story Bob.

2) it's described as "restrictive", yet it actually gave players options - you either get your generic riven stat stick and naramon for way more damage, or get xoris for conveniency or as a budget option (though rivens for high dispo weapons are cheap enough to also be considered budget, but whatever). Now it's back to only naramon and only rivens, or you're doing it wrong. So from this standpoint, the nerf is a failure.

I won't deny that without rivens in question, xoris is the best statstick option overall. Problem is, whether you like them or not, rivens became a core part in building, and you cannot just ignore them on that matter. And oh boy, rivens trash xoris in terms of performance. But they are not getting addressed, even worse, they are not even being acknowledged as a part of this problem. Simply put, xoris gets buried, but rivens, things that affect warframe abilities in a very similar way, get a pass. Makes you think about the real reasoning behing all this.

[ProtocolError]

RIP 😞

[LuckySaint236]

ok but hear me out: apply melee combo efficiency from zenurik school and mods to said warframe skills

[LoneWolf9989]

18 hours ago, ZloGlaZ said:

You missed like 30 pages of good critics with nice suggestions. Well, there is 20 pages of complains but still if you spend a bit of time you will find answer to your questions.

You missed the point. I never said I agree completely with DE. I even said they went too far. And if you could read beyond 3 sentences before getting pissed you'll see that.

 

20 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Because it was unintended, and while DE's reaction may have been too far, they couldn't have done nothing about it. SMH.

 

[LoneWolf9989]

11 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Heck, there is a post-nerf video with Venka one-shotting entire groups of level 170 enemies. .

Yeah, there was, but what the Xoris did, is it make the boost it provided infinite. That's the unintended part. The Simulacrum does not represent game play. Once it can be done using the same gear in a MISSION, then it'll be valid.

[LoneWolf9989]

5 hours ago, GREF_TM said:

  That's a bug with gladiator set mods that is presented for several months now. Why are they using it as a justification for xoris nerf, instead of fixing an actual bug?

Because fixing the bug, is going to piss people off. Imagine the Xoris nerf, but universal, because all of a sudden, NO exhalted weapons have a use for combo count. It's like coptering. DE didn't fix it until they had a more controlled alternative, because it would piss people off. Just as people are now.

[(PSN)Svenx13]

Ok, The Xoris was a very nice stat stick with its unlimited combo duration. (Rest in Peace my 3 forma and catalyst).

I get it why DE have to nerf it, but my question is: 

Why did the Xoris even have an unlimited combo duration?

I mean that weapon was designed for the granum void to free prisoners with a heavy attack, which can be cleared in 40-120sec.

In my opinion the unlimited combo duration for granum void is a design failure.

 

 

[LoneWolf9989]

5 hours ago, GREF_TM said:

I won't deny that without rivens in question, xoris is the best statstick option overall. Problem is, whether you like them or not, rivens became a core part in building, and you cannot just ignore them on that matter. And oh boy, rivens trash xoris in terms of performance. But they are not getting addressed, even worse, they are not even being acknowledged as a part of this problem. Simply put, xoris gets buried, but rivens, things that affect warframe abilities in a very similar way, get a pass. Makes you think about the real reasoning behing all this.

The difference between the Xoris and Rivens is that rivens are far more controlled. You know, those disposition changes that everyone hates? It stops one weapon from being out of control for too long. They don't address Rivens affecting Exhalted weapons because it would piss people off even more than they already are. Everyone scrutinizes them and their actions so heavily, they can't do anything that even looks like a nerf without a large amount of the fanbase getting pissed at them. So they have to tread as lightly as possible.

[Ice_Peck]

22 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Those 2 months weren't spent just developing the mode, it was also testing using the test server. Seeing how players reacted to it, and adjusting accordingly. People bring nothing but Sayrn? Balance the stats to make that strategy slightly less viable. People finding it too much? Balance. Really... how ignorant can you be?

DEfender loooool

[Urulai]

It was convenient not overpowered there is a difference.  The xoris is a middling melee weapon at best.  If popularity should tell you there is a feature people like and one can study it and try to understand it and incorporate it better rather than just getting rid of it.

The entire warframe parkour system exists because the original unintended behavior was turned into a feature rather than treated as a bug.

[Siaw]

6 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

The difference between the Xoris and Rivens is that rivens are far more controlled. You know, those disposition changes that everyone hates? It stops one weapon from being out of control for too long. They don't address Rivens affecting Exhalted weapons because it would piss people off even more than they already are. Everyone scrutinizes them and their actions so heavily, they can't do anything that even looks like a nerf without a large amount of the fanbase getting pissed at them. So they have to tread as lightly as possible.

“Rivens are far more controlled”. Yeah sure, because rivens are one of the items worth the most amount of plat, an DE changing the dispositions means people will change Rivens and that’s more money for DE.

 The Xoris offered convenience without the need of a Riven, which is a direct loss in revenue for DE.

 Also can you people stop believing anything DE says without a doubt? It’s not like you’ll jump out of a bridge if DE says it right? RIGHT?

[LoneWolf9989]

5 hours ago, Saberfrost said:

DEfender loooool

 

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

 Also can you people stop believing anything DE says without a doubt? It’s not like you’ll jump out of a bridge if DE says it right? RIGHT?

The he- I'm not a 'DEfender' as you say. I will criticize them when it's necessary. But just because I defend them in some ways, I'm apparently terrible? Can you stop attacking anyone who attempts to defend DE when they have a point? It's not like you're toxic, right? RIGHT? RIGHT?

[Siaw]

22 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

Also can you people stop believing anything DE says without a doubt? It’s not like you’ll jump out of a bridge if DE says it right? RIGHT?

 

6 minutes ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

The he- I'm not a 'DEfender' as you say.

Excuse me but when did I mention you being a “Defender”? Or did you call yourself that by own volition?

[LoneWolf9989]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

Excuse me but when did I mention you being a “Defender”? Or did you call yourself that by own volition?

There are 2 comments quoted, look there

[Siaw]

2 minutes ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

There are 2 comments quoted, look there

Why did you quote and mock my post then? Did I make you feel so threatened that you had to make a response because our lords and saviors DE made a point so clear that there are over 50 pages of people complaining said point?

[Ice_Peck]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

Why did you quote and mock my post then? Did I make you feel so threatened that you had to make a response because our lords and saviors DE made a point so clear that there are over 50 pages of people complaining said point?

If he realized this he wouldn't have been so quick to do it to begin with.

[LoneWolf9989]

Just now, (NSW)Siaw said:

Why did you quote and mock my post then? Did I make you feel so threatened that you had to make a response because our lords and saviors DE made a point so clear that there are over 50 pages of people complaining said point?

Because both you and the other person had things I was responding to. Threatened? Yeah, because everyone who doesn't always hate DE have fragile egos. Seems like you're projecting.

As for the 'lords and saviors' comment, totally unwarranted. I never said DE's perfect. I never said they were the best, I never said anything of the sort. So you can shut up about that.

[LoneWolf9989]

2 minutes ago, Saberfrost said:

If he realized this he wouldn't have been so quick to do it to begin with.

Realised what? That DE is a reincarnation of the Devil, here to take away our fun? Really, stop.

[Siaw]

We did it bois. DE was right all along, they made their point clear and it wasn’t unjustified, we are just a bunch of haters.

Welp, guess the past 50 pages are just a bunch of nonsense  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

 

[LoneWolf9989]

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

We did it bois. DE was right all along, they made their point clear and it wasn’t unjustified, we are just a bunch of haters.

Welp, guess the past 50 pages are just a bunch of nonsense  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

Yeah... you can stop with that.

They don't have much that they can do, because as I have said, they are so closely scrutinized and judged for everything that they do, that anything that looks even remotely like a nerf, causes everyone to pounce on them. Fix Gladiator mods affecting Exhalted weapons?(which hasn't happened yet) Pounce. Change the Bramma? Pounce. DE doesn't make an endgame? OH GOD RUUUUUUUU-

 

Did I say that those 50 pages were completely invalid?

No.

 

Did I say DEs perfect?

No. 

 

Did you say that DEs decisions are motivated entirely by profit?

You did.

1 hour ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

The Xoris offered convenience without the need of a Riven, which is a direct loss in revenue for DE.

Will somebody tell this guy that both Rivens and Platinum can be obtained for free on an individual basis?

[Siaw]

5 minutes ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

Will somebody tell this guy that both Rivens and Platinum can be obtained for free on an individual basis?

Right. I forgot no one pays for platinum, I’m surprised DE even makes money tbh.

6 minutes ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

that anything that looks even remotely like a nerf, causes everyone to pounce on them.

I agree on this, the Xoris wasn’t nerfed, in fact I think it will retain the same star chart usage even after it depletes your whole combo, since y’know the Xoris had an overwhelming damage output that a mere combo multiplier won’t even matter.

/s

[ZloGlaZ]

9 hours ago, LoneWolf9989 said:

You missed the point. I never said I agree completely with DE. I even said they went too far. And if you could read beyond 3 sentences before getting pissed you'll see that.

 

 

It was more to your initial post and how this was phrased:

"Thank you for changing this. While it was an unintended interaction with those skills & abilities it sure was abused once people found out about it. 

For anyone salty about the Xoris changes... Did you really think they were just going to leave it alone? We all knew this was coming from the day it was discovered!"

and right back to you: And if you could read beyond 3 sentences before getting pissed you'll see that.

Edit: I have read more of your posts and oh my god, you are fanboy on the righteous path of white-knighting 🙂 

[Siaw]

18 minutes ago, ZloGlaZ said:

For anyone salty about the Xoris changes... Did you really think they were just going to leave it alone? We all knew this was coming from the day it was discovered!"

I’ll change this phrase a bit: 

For anyone salty about the removal of Coptering... Did you really think they were just going to leave it alone? We all knew this was coming from the day it was discovered! That’s why they added Bullet Jump!

Notice how times have changed? When a bug/feature was so desired by players that instead of being removed it was adapted to the core gameplay?

PS: I’m not even going to quote the original author of that phrase.