[Tier List] Helminth's Chrysalis Warframe Abilities!

[SmokinDice]

48 minutes ago, Amazing_Miggles said:

Don't get too excited about Null Star. Outside of Nova's own kit + augment for 4, you will have a very hard time keeping it at any useable level. 

I've been playing the game for 555+ hours and over 23% of it on Nova P. Now here's why Null Star will not be a gamechanger for most squishy frames:

1) It is dependent on having high Duration to give meaningful DR. You don't really need full-on 306% duration but many frames will struggle to get any meaningful DR out of it without sacrificing things that are more integral to them.

2) Null Star specifically does NOT reduce damage to Shield- making it less useful in managing shieldgating. (source: warframe wiki)

3) Null Star wants as low a range as possible and even at neutral range it will fly off everywhere and cannot be refreshed outside of its own augment or Nova's augment 4.

4) AoE Crowd Control or a method of restoring shield (Pillage, for instance) will give you better survivability  

That makes Null Star a 'DR' ability that doesn't actually give truly meaningful DR (you hit that shieldgating with or without it), constantly goes down at the presence of enemies, and cannot be refreshed unless you waste a mod slot specifically for it. 

I've been playing less and less of Nova because combined with shieldgating and her amazing 4, damage to her health is more predictable and controllable, while the old habit of wanting to keep Null Star at max count is becoming more stress than what is truly worth. 

Don't make that chore yours too T_T

Well I have been playing warframe for 2800 hours+(and thats only on steam, when I played it without steam for the first 3 years or so)

but that doesn't mean anything.. and I am still bad at the game.. but I like numbers and I like theorycrafting and making my own weird builds!

 

so onto your points.

1) It is dependent on having high Duration to give meaningful DR.

ofcourse it does, and I know the ability needs a lot of investment, and I dont recommend using it on all and every warframe in the game, I am saying, for SOME warframes this is a god send blessing because they desperately want an ability like this, and ofcourse its for the lazy players like myself.. this wont make my banshee the new top tier meta banshee.. because nullstar and sonar don't quite get along so well.. but on my excalibur for example? I dont need useless range on my blind when I can just hack and slash through enemys with exalted blade and suddenly dont die immediatly anymore! 

On my Ego harrow! that right now already has a 277% duration build! so just slap it on there and finally be an unkillable tank that heals has infinite energy and infinite tankyness and survivability!

maybe mesa even to never worry about shatter shield running out anymore

a fly only titania that will never die ever

a blessing trinity that only cares for herself and become eternal trinity once again!

Wisp, to not only heal emensly but also beeing truly unkillable!

or F it just slap it on banshee with range.. it doesnt matter, even a small 50% mitigation will help go along way to stack something like adaptation enough and survive.. and if baruuk gameplay taught me anything, its not TOO bad to lose some of your defense over time, because you can always rebuilt it and heal and just dont die instantly, which is all you need.

 

2) Null Star specifically does NOT reduce damage to Shield- making it less useful in managing shieldgating. (source: warframe wiki)

which as stated before I care very little about, I played 7 years with protecting my health, and never caught on to you younglings using new and optimal defenses that require attentionn pah! and none of the frames above care for it either.

 

3) Null Star wants as low a range as possible and even at neutral range it will fly off everywhere and cannot be refreshed outside of its own augment or Nova's augment 4.

it will probably require the augment yes, but we get that, so its not a big deal, and as I said on the first point, all these high duration frames and set up can use narrow minded to even further reduce the range and most of them can keep enemys at bay. and as I also said, baruuk taught me that even if one or two defenses fly away, it is still enough to keep you alive long enough to recast or get to safety or heal up. so I dont think this is a big deal at all IF you really want it

 

4) AoE Crowd Control or a method of restoring shield (Pillage, for instance) will give you better survivability

Well yes! but no.. ofcourse playing well, crwod controling, dodging or shield gating are good and potentially stronger defenses for sure! but NEVER underastimate the lazyness of players, especially in warframe, this game is so layed back that you can completly turn of your brain if you want.. CC wants you to press buttons, shieldgating needs you to react.. OR I can just have my 90% DR and chill and do what ever the F I want. ^^ and this is not only my beeing this lazy, many people are and want exactly this..

 

and finally.. "Don't make that chore yours too T_T"

dont worry, it wont.. ever since I got introduced to 306% duration nova she has become more and more enjoyable for me! when shieldgating came along I didn't even care at all for it, because it is nothing I need in my life (for me it signals danger, and keeps me aware, but my old brain is to slow to use this knowledge to then defend myself in that 1 second.).

So for me nullstar providing the needed 90% you need to have in this game in my opinion on everything, was the thing that make me want to play nova finally, and she still is one of my favorites ever since. 🙂

 

and also, if you desperatly need that range, just use defy instead. 🙂 its a bit weaker but way easier to set up and get going, still very helpful on some builds!

[Amazing_Miggles]

Now with your answer we get to the crux of the issue of tier-listing in general. As objective as we try to be, you've just listed the reasons why tier lists don't work and why they are all subjective as heck. We all play differently and often ingrained in our own set of playstyle that has no place in other people's (mine to you, yours to mine). 

Perhaps we can agree given your subjectivity in the response that Null Star doesn't deserve the S-ranking that you have given it. It may be, as you said, good on a select number of frames for a select number of players who don't want to make use of shieldgating (or lazy, as you say) but not lazy enough to keep refreshing that Null Star and willing to in some cases completely change their build around having that DR only on their health. 

None of those limitations cry 'S-tier' to me. Hence my reasoning still stands. 

[SmokinDice]

4 minutes ago, Amazing_Miggles said:

Now with your answer we get to the crux of the issue of tier-listing in general. As objective as we try to be, you've just listed the reasons why tier lists don't work and why they are all subjective as heck. We all play differently and often ingrained in our own set of playstyle that has no place in other people's (mine to you, yours to mine). 

Perhaps we can agree given your subjectivity in the response that Null Star doesn't deserve the S-ranking that you have given it. It may be, as you said, good on a select number of frames for a select number of players who don't want to make use of shieldgating (or lazy, as you say) but not lazy enough to keep refreshing that Null Star and willing to in some cases completely change their build around having that DR only on their health. 

None of those limitations cry 'S-tier' to me. Hence my reasoning still stands. 

I honestly dont know.. I personally refresh nullstar VERY rarely if at all. I dont view it as a very demanding ability, even less so because it has no duration and it feels so much better to me to not worry about it all the time and rather worry about enemys aproaching me.

I think if used right, and for solo play, this is most definitly a really strong choice and gives traits to frames which they lacked and in some cases needed for years!

I am however agreeing on my subjectivity and changed my OP accordingly.. its seems like it is more subjective than I thought! so I just fixed it that way. ^^

I still think good and thoughtful players can make good use out of this ability and it provides a new style of play to many frames!

[Gashabae]

8 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Turns off AI. Persists to immediately affect all new enemies that spawn in in a potentially ludicrous range, don't have to cast it very often. Octavia doesn't have anything below A tier in that kit.

Also, we get augments. Conductor is even an exilus augment. There's your 'always moving' problem dealt with too.

Definitely excited about using it with Equinox.

[JackHargreav]

4 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

what if you already have CC, dont want CC or just want to melee and increase you powerlevel dramtically?

 

here is a small list of frames you can just slap Eternal war cry on and they immeditaly become exeptionally more strong regardless of other options and will outclass valkyr on the spot. 

- Exalted weapons boys with actual good exalted weapons to go along! Baruuk, insane, literally godlike! Excal even more dps! wukong maybe but probably not (since you would delete iron staff for it xD unless maybe the clone gets the buff?)

- a melee Chroma

- a melee Gauss

- a melee mirage 

- Grendel

- Hildryn

- Rhino

-Trinity

- Inaros

- Volt for double time memes!

- Ivara and loki, invis slaughter machines

- bubble nyx, jumpy jumpy unkillable and fast

- wisp

- oberon

 

all these frames will be better valkyrs now that are extremely potent to rush through any mission and melee slaughter everyone.

 

Fair enough. But buff stacking is not a thing as far as I know. If damage buffs don't stack, probably speed buffs won't stack either.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb BiancaRoughfin:

Funny you saying that because im a Zephyr Main and i use this Skill the whole time. Its very good to clear path, get enemies out of consoles and push some out of platforms and into pits where they die when you dont want to have to deal with the heavier ones. With the new function it will allow players to suck enemies into a small area and finish them off with some powerful AoE attack.

I mean, that might be true if you look at Zephyr's kit only. However, if you suggest - in the context of the Chrysalis system - that anyone should take Airburst over Larva or Ensnare (or anything else) only to be able to cheese some nerds off a cliff, I'd disagree. Ensnare and Larva are just the better at doing the group up effect.

However, I see the niche it fills I just don't see which frame would use it over something else. Any idea who'd benefit from it greatly? I have the impression every frame has plenty of better options before Airburst even gets considered.

[BiancaRoughfin]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

I mean, that might be true if you look at Zephyr's kit only. However, if you suggest - in the context of the Chrysalis system - that anyone should take Airburst over Larva or Ensnare (or anything else) only to be able to cheese some nerds off a cliff, I'd disagree. Ensnare and Larva are just the better at doing the group up effect.

However, I see the niche it fills I just don't see which frame would use it over something else. Any idea who'd benefit from it greatly?

Because Larva tugs enemies in then scatters them again once the skill ends and Ensnare traps one and slowly tugs others on, Airburst just pulls all enemies in at once to the same spot. I havent tested the reworked Airburst yet to see how strong it sucks enemies in.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb BiancaRoughfin:

Because Larva tugs enemies in then scatters them again once the skill ends and Ensnare traps one and slowly tugs others on, Airburst just pulls all enemies in at once to the same spot. I havent tested the reworked Airburst yet to see how strong it sucks enemies in.

Well, you kill the enemies in Larva before it explodes or move further through the level and don't care about it. Ensnare sets up for headshots. You really should try the suck in of Airburst then. It's pretty bad.

[SmokinDice]

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Because Larva tugs enemies in then scatters them again once the skill ends and Ensnare traps one and slowly tugs others on, Airburst just pulls all enemies in at once to the same spot. I havent tested the reworked Airburst yet to see how strong it sucks enemies in.

well, just to inform you of the current sitaution, on the test build enemys aren't really sucked in at all.. they more so just fall over slightly in the direction of impact.. lets see if they change it more.

[korusef]

Nah, Valky is not dead, we can now have Hysteria Valkyr + Dispensary 

[SmokinDice]

56 minutes ago, korusef said:

Nah, Valky is not dead, we can now have Hysteria Valkyr + Dispensary 

to be a good little kitty that leashes itself to a fixed location all the time?

[HeartPurity]

Thanks for your suggestion 🤗

[HeartPurity]

On 2020-08-15 at 12:21 AM, lukinu_u said:

Please no, stop with tier lists in Warframe, they are always wrong...

It is a reference and you can still think on your own what suits you best. Be grateful for people sharing information instead of pouring cold water.

[CRCGamer]

You are severely undervaluing Blood Altar. Yeah its percentage missing health healing in an AoE that works on all allies within the area. What also needs to be understood is that it has a long range pounce on activation that acts as a targeted dash giving mobility to frames utilizing it. It also CC's the target for the duration. So pounce a high value target dump a couple seconds of damage into it. Get topped off and continue on your merry way. When it wears off the stored damage is all dealt to the target at once.

Extreme synergy for the likes of Inaros. Just use the usual augmented 4 at the start for your CC immunity and pounce your way into crowds with constant area healing making you even more durable. And outside of defense objectives anything else that is allied gets healed by it. So sortie defense operative? Gets healed. Kavor in Defection? Gets healed. Your companions, and specters again get healed.

DE pulls a stupid and you get things like the invulnerable helpers throwing molotovs cooking with hell's own fire like the revised Wolf fight had? Successfully CC'd into the ground and acts as a top-off in the boss fight.

Any of the frames durable enough that they like using Hunter's Adrenaline/Rage for energy top-offs can get really good value from it. It having a 30m or if running stretch a 43m targeted dash is also stupidly good.

[lukinu_u]

Il y a 5 heures, HeartPurity a dit :

It is a reference and you can still think on your own what suits you best. Be grateful for people sharing information instead of pouring cold water.

I would be grateful for people sharing information, but in most of case they are sharing misinformation when doing tier lists.

A few week ago, I was looking at a "famous tier list" and laughed so hard when I saw Nova, Wisp and Acceletra on S tier... I honestly don't know how this guy rated stuff on his list, maybe just his personal opinion ?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2020-08-14 at 12:18 PM, SmokinDice said:

Since this is a very hot topic that got a lot controversy around it, I wanted to make a Tier List for these new skills available to all frames and rank them accordingly.

This is absolutly subjective! but I try to sprinkle some objectivity into it! so lets discuss and please give your opinions and ideas as well!

of course this is just for fun! to bridge the time while we wait for this amazing new update! so dont take it TOO serious please. 🙂

 

S Tier

These will be the strongest abilities you definitly want! they will be extremely valuable in any scenario! or break the boundaries of the game as we knew it

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- Rhino - Roar

The meta breaker! if you want to kill bosses, you no longer use rhino ever.. you use the warframe that has the most damage available and just slam roar on there. remember that this ability buffs ALL damage, including other warframe abilities! this is honestly crazy and potentially dangerous, and really sad for rhinos.

- Nidus - Larva

This is Top Tier CC.. not only does it hold enemys in place, but it also bundles them up, and this will be extremely valuable for many many frames! might even be S Tier with how easy to use and good it is with no augment

- Khora - Ensnare

"Copy paste Nidus text" both khoras and nidus' ability fullfill the same role by working mechanically a little diffrent, larva need line of sight, but no target. ensnare needs a target but has no line of sight requirement.. so basically just pick what suits you best.. I think these two abilitys might be the most used in the game.

- Protea - Dispensary

I am kind of sad that we dont got the grenades since they would have been much more convenient to use than condemn is, but none the less this ability is amazing for its utility. you can absoulty even build around this ability on some frames with stuff like equilibrium and never worry about health or energy ever again, just camp and use high energy abilitys to destroy your foes and keep beeing healthy and energized!

- Baruuk - Lull

Since Baruuk is amazing, all of his abilities would have been placed here. Lull is an insane CC with huge range and duration. with its augment you dont even loose to much duration and have a chain going to perma CC the whole game, this will definitly be used to great effect!

- Valkyr - Warcry

Goodbye my lover.. Goodbye my friend! You have been the one..You have been the one for me........ this is what Valkyr was. this is all that was left of her.. all her other abilities are garbage really.. so this sole abiltys was Valkyr.. and now.. its gone.. everbody can use it.. Valkyr.. I loved you for so long.. even when you were down.. but with this change, I will sadly have no reason to play you ever again.. but with your dying breath, you give us one of the greatest presents you could have given us.. this ability will be insane on SO SO many frames and solo builds or if you just want to Fing hack and slash and rage through hords of enemys to get revenge for our loss today.. Rest in Peace Valkyr, and thank you ❤️

- Equinox - Rest & Rage

this is an S tier ability because of its flexibility.. yes it is just a weaker Lull when you just want the CC.. BUT you can just use a bright energy color and all of the sudden you are a mini speed nova that increase speed of enemys to run towards you faster AND deal more damage to them! having both options available on one ability make this extremely valuable!

- Ivara - Quiver

it only provides you with cloak arrow and noise arrow, that beeing said it IS the only ability that grant universal invisability to every warframe in the game! it is only very stationary, I dont think there is a way to shoot yourself or your sentinel anymore. But this will most definitly have some syngergy with some specific frames and builds and is HUGE for survivability

- Nova - Nullstar

There it is boys, this is it. this is your bandaid fix to now be able to play your favorite squishy warframe and finally not be squishy again, given it will not fit EVERY build.. if you just want to be a tanky boy, you can now be it on everyone!

- Wukong - Defy

This is the main alternative to Novas Null Star! its quite a bit weaker but it is Damage reduction! and some frames despereatly need it! sou if you have trouble fittion nullstar augment into oyur build you might want to consider this as your defensive option!

 

 

A Tier

These are the really good abiliies that fulfill a specific need that you might want to flesh out your build!

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- Octavia - Resonator

since Larva and Ensnare are in the pool I will rank this lower as it should be.. it is amazing CC that pulls enemys together and totally shut their AI down, BUT it is always moving and dont bundle enemys up as much as larva does.. so since the other two options are just way stronger, I place it a bit lower

- Harrow - Condemn

its a nice bit off CC for some frames, but the more important part is that it generates a TON of shields in the right build, not only that, but it can also provide you with overshields, making it one of the premiere choices if you want to make your warframe more defensive via a shield build and utalize shieldgating!

- Excalibur - Radial Blind

it has been an amazing CC ever since Beta basically, it opens enemys up to finishers with by itelsf has a lot of syngergy with other skills has a long duration and a nice bit of range, if you want CC this is definitly and easy option!

- Atlas - Petrify

This is an amazing CC ability, you can just lock a whole corridor down with it, and holds enemys in place no matter what. the augment give extera loot which many people always desire, but if you have a high range duration build and no CC that you might want to add this!

- Inaros - Desiccation

Well if you cant decide if you want atlas' cone shaped CC or the blind from Excal.. whyn ot both? this ability is excelent CC that also opens enemys up to finisher. its a combination of excal and atlas with positives and negatives.. oh yeah and it also heals you for very VERY little amounts..

- Hildryn - Pillage

I dont know exactly how this will paly out yet, instead of shields, this skill will cost 50 energy to cast.. but it does steal ALOT of shield and also amror from enemys! so it will definiztly help you to stay alive and also deal more damage!

- Oberon - Smite

Do not underastimate this ability just because it is a 1.. first of all it does % base damage, which already is pretty good, it reduces enemy damage output AND has a chance to CC them, it also hits a ton of enemys at the same time.. so even base smite is very useful.. BUT ofcourse this comes with an augment.. an augment that buffs your and your teams damage by adding 100% radiation damage to everything you do.. so this will definitly become a choice for you if you want to min max your damage output!

- Mirage - Eclipse

While we still dont have a good way to control if we are in the light or the dark, this skill still is insane. it gives a huge damage buff OR a huge damage reduction. so if you use this well, this will be an extremely strong choice!

- Xaku - Xata's Whisper

Its a damage increase, we dont know how much, but it will probably be a good choice if you just want damage!

 

 

B Tier

These are Frame specific abilites that you want to use for their special syngergy!

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- Volt - Shock

The definiton of B Tier. the skill by itself is pretty underwhelming, just a little CC, but the augment might give it a place on many Meta damage builds to kill bosses faster.

- Ember - Fire Blast

It is honestly not to bad.. it strips armor by 50% in a decent area which by itself is pretty good. and with the augment you can get a heal on warframes that you want some form of small regen every now and then. I can see this beeing used as a combination of an armor strip + defensive option in some build!

- Gauss - Thermal Sunder

this again strips armor off of enemys while at the same time can provide a little bit of CC, so it is very flexible, I dont believe we get to strip all armor with the blast proc, but 50% from the heat proc is already pretty nice to use. so it mind find some uses!

- Trinity - Well Of Life

with its buff this might be a decent healing option. so if all you ever wanted was just another convenient way to heal, that this is your best bet!

- Nezha - Fire Walker

it makes you faster, look cool, gives you some nice CC and possibly armor reduction. it a very nice ability if you dont need anything particular and just want to replace an ability for fun!

- Grendel - Nourish

its a very small self heal since you never have enemys inside your belly as anyone other than grendel. BUT it gives you a 50% toxin damage buff.. and buffs are never to be underastimated.. so I will cautiously place it in C tier for now, as I think they are better options for that.

- Mesa - Shooting Gallery

its a small damage increase with very little CC added to it.. its not amazing but it does increase your damage, so use it if you desperatly need a damage buff

 

 

C Tier

These are abilites that you definitly want to use for their augment to compliment your build!

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- Ash - Shuriken

Definitly a useful ability with its augment, yes it costs you an augment slot in your build, but if you have some strength in your build already, and no good way to strip armor, then this skill might be for you!

- Gara - Spectrorage

the ability by itself is a pretty okay little CC.. but with its augment you can really get some energy out of this ability! so if you struggle with energy consumption in your build, just throw this is with its augment and never have energy problems again!

- Saryn - Molt

I place it here not really because of its augment which definitly is a nice way to heal on some frames that love to have a bit of regen, but also because it is a pretty nice speed increase and takes some fire away from you, so it can do quite a bit, but for healing, run speed, or distraction, there are just better option, if you want all three take this!

- Titania - Spellbind

Its just an okay little CC that you might want to use. but its augment will generate energy for you if you at least hit 4 enemys with it.. so if you are looking to generate some energy, this might be for you!

- Vauban - Tesla Nervos

On its own the ability is more fun to use that actual useful, but with its augment you can deal some pretty busted AoE damage, so this might be a consideration for some builds!

 

 

D Tier

these are the very niche abilities that mind find a narrow home, but are definitly not needed

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- Banshee - SIlence

The ability on its own is pretty bad and you would never use it on its own.. buuuut with the augment I can see a finisher style build that wants to have silence active JUST for its augment which gives a ton of finisher damage!

- Revenant - Reave

IF you are desperate for a movement skill, that this is your only option to get it, it make you invuklnerable for a short duration and even heals you, its definitly okay to use, but doesn't provide much.

- Garuda - Blood Altar

If you struggle with survivablity and like to play very stationary, then this ability might be for you, it keeps you decently health while trying to hold down a specific area.

- Limbo - Banish

I think this ability will be more confusing to people than it is helpful.. it basically removes enemys from existence yes, but in the long run and if you play with other people, this might get confusing fast. but it is solid enemy removal for a short time and therefore could find some uses.

- Mag - Pull

I mean, it does stuff, but not really.. uit pulls enemys together and can also make you pick items up more easy.. and yes it was meta at one point, but we are far beyond that already and no one ever has energy issue anymore.. so yeah..

- Nekros - Terrify

It is mediocre CC that makes enemys run away.. not ideal.. but it is still CC

 

 

E Tier

eh?

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- Chroma - Elemental Ward

it can give you more health maybe? if you desperatly need it.. can give you some shield on hyldrin maybe if you really need that? the reflect is useless.. toxin, no.. the armor increase could be used on some frames to get even tankier, and again the reflect is useless.. I dont see a good use yet, but it is not terrible..

- Hydroid - Tempest Barrage

its an okay ability to have. some rng CC and some armor strip with the augment, this ability needs a buff but it is okay some what.

 

 

F TIer

Why DE.. aka .F is for Frustrated

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- Frost - Ice Wave

Terrible ability, dont use it ever..

- Loki - Decoy

why not at least switch teleport? decoy is terrible..

- Nyx - Mind Control

WHY not Psychic bolts?? why?? it would have been an amazing armor stripper for frames that need it desperatly.. but noo we get a do nothing ability literally 😧 ( I love nyx deeply, more than any of you.. but I NEVER pressed this button.. in almost 7 years of playing this frame..) psychic bolt on other frames would have been SO good.. huge missed opportunity here..

- Zephyr - Airburst

Even with its buff I think this is meh and probalby F tier garbage that you never want to use.. its the most boring ability in the whole game..

 

 

Special mention: Wisp is NOT on this list for a very particular reason.. we will see what happens and go from there..

 

SO this is MY list.. please let me know if you find something to be odd or want to discuss! are you hyped about this new feature? did I miss anything? what Warframe ability are you the most excited about? LEt me know and talk about it!

Weapons and mods are the true keys to killpower. Anything that directly supplements them and the entire squad should be higher on the list.

Mods like Shock with the Shock Trooper Augment can easily add +200% damage to your entire squad’s now already ridiculously powerful 2020 Warframe arsenal with Condition Overloads and Crit Kavats and Kuva Weapons and Rivens falling like rain.

And it’s a CHEAP cast.

People keep sleeping on the basics for cool twists...that’s my opinion.

[SmokinDice]

6 hours ago, CRCGamer said:

You are severely undervaluing Blood Altar.

..

Any of the frames durable enough that they like using Hunter's Adrenaline/Rage for energy top-offs can get really good value from it. It having a 30m or if running stretch a 43m targeted dash is also stupidly good.

I dont know.. maybe you are right, I dont really see a need for it though maybe on inaros yes, maybe on grendel, but I think for both frames there are better options. if you want to become truly invincble you can put it on oberon or wisp maybe.. but, for oberon at least, there are already better builds to be truly immortal.

and the operatives and other moving guys tend to walk out of it even when playing garuda now. but ofcourse there can be value in it, thats why I put it in D tier, as niche uses in some cases on maybe 2-3 frames. to me D doesn't mean it is bad, but more so very rarely used.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Weapons and mods are the true keys to killpower. Anything that directly supplements them and the entire squad should be higher on the list.

Mods like Shock with the Shock Trooper Augment can easily add +200% damage to your entire squad’s now already ridiculously powerful 2020 Warframe arsenal with Condition Overloads and Crit Kavats and Kuva Weapons and Rivens falling like rain.

And it’s a CHEAP cast.

People keep sleeping on the basics for cool twists...that’s my opinion.

you are right, and I definitly considered it in my list, when it comes to these buffs you have oberon and volt, and I think radiation will be much more used than pure electricity, and thats why I placed oberon higher as I think his 1 will get used more than volts, for them basically providing the same buff.

and yes I only placed it in A tier for that, and it could very well be a decission of roar vs smite for damage buffing, still I think roar is WAY more applicable, doesn't require an augment AND also buffs ability damage. and I think smite can not be in the same tier as that. which doesn't mean it does not have a home, for straight up weapon boss killing ofcourse smite will be better, and A tier is still a high rating and should not take away from its value.

Shock just doesn't have a home I think when Smite just outshines it

 

 

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 minutes ago, SmokinDice said:

I dont know.. maybe you are right, I dont really see a need for it though maybe on inaros yes, maybe on grendel, but I think for both frames there are better options. if you want to become truly invincble you can put it on oberon or wisp maybe.. but, for oberon at least, there are already better builds to be truly immortal.

and the operatives and other moving guys tend to walk out of it even when playing garuda now. but ofcourse there can be value in it, thats hy I put it in D tier, as niche uses in some cases on maybe 2-3 frames. to me D doesn't mean it is bad, but more so very rarely used.

 

you are right, and I definitly considered it in my list, when it comes to these buffs you have oberon and volt, and I think radiation will be much more used than pure electricity, and thats why I placed oberon higher as I think his 1 will get used more than volts, for them basically provideing the same buff.

and yes I only placed it in a tier for that, and it could very well be a decission of roar vs smite for damage buffing, still I think roar is WAY more applicable, doesn't require an augment AND also buffs ability damage. and I think smite can not be in the same tier as that. which doesn't mean it does not have a home, for straight up weapon bosskilling ofcourse smite will be better, and A tier is still a high rating and should not take away from its value.

Shock just doesn'T have a home I think when SMite just outshines it

 

 

 

You do know that the new changes to electricity PRoCs make it a far more dangerous element to secondary targets now, right?

[SmokinDice]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You do know that the new changes to electricity PRoCs make it a far more dangerous element to secondary targets now, right?

you do know what smite does right? ^^

its not even close to compare these two skills, smite is the farthest you can push a 1 ability.

 

EDIT: also dont forget that electricity will merge with existing elements, (which is a plus btw) so it is more likely to form corrosive, radiation or magnetic but I still think it is worse. since radiation is always valuable and you dont need to mod around it.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, SmokinDice said:

you do know what smite does right? ^^

its not even close to compare these two skills, smite is the farthest you can push a 1 ability.

 

EDIT: also dont forget that electricity will merge with existing elements, (which is a plus btw) so it is more likely to form corrosive, radiation or magnetic but I still think it is worse. since radiation is always valuable and you dont need to mod around it.

I do.  I’m not arguing against the rad-cheese-status that tastes oh so delicious.

Consider, however that the sexy-looking x12 modifier up to 550% for enemy-on-enemy damage is just a way to balance game design; enemies are high eHP that deal low damage so Warframes can survive a hit because Warframes are low eHP units with regenerative abilities to compensate that can deal high, scaling damage.  It’s that it works well as a damage type against certain Grineer and Sentients and draws away aggro that counts. 

Im pointing out that many players don’t understand yet that new Tesla Chain/Chain Lightning is it’s OWN attack that can stack mod effects on top of the initial attack.

This Youtuber discovered it:

Also the Warframe Wiki gives an example of how a secondary target can get hit by more damage than the primary target.

Here:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage/Electricity_Damage

 The Tesla Chain is able to hit heads and other body parts by itself, potentially allowing headshot bonuses to apply twice (which is also affected by the added headshot damage from  Target Acquired and zoom bonuses on some sniper rifles). For example, tick damage for a weapon with an innate 100 damage,  Serration,  Stormbringer, and  Bane of Grineer will be: 

Base Damage = 100 × (1 + 1.65) × (1 + 0.3) = 344.5

Electric Mod Multiplier = (1 + 0.9) × (1 + 0.3) = 2.47x

Tick Damage = 0.5 × 344.5 × 2.47 = 425.457

As can be seen in the above calculations for tick damage, Faction Damage is applied twice, making their effective bonus = (1+FactionBonus)^2. Which is +69% for the 30% Faction Damage mods and +140.25% for the 55% Primed Faction Damage mods.

[SmokinDice]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Im pointing out that many players don’t understand yet that new Tesla Chain/Chain Lightning is it’s OWN attack that can stack mod effects on top of the initial attack.

yes we have known about this for almost half a year now, ever since the rework, there wasn't really anything to discover, this is how it works since then. and yet you dont see people running around with gas electric builds, ofcourse its fun for some aoe clear, but you could also just play a good build instead. its not broken or insanely strong, its a okay damage gimmick that doesn't work well on important enemys, and espeically when you want to omega buff your damage to kill bosses, it doesn't help against bosses which is the main reason to take shock+augment on your frame.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

28 minutes ago, SmokinDice said:

yes we have known about this for almost half a year now, ever since the rework, there wasn't really anything to discover, this is how it works since then. and yet you dont see people running around with gas electric builds, ofcourse its fun for some aoe clear, but you could also just play a good build instead. its not broken or insanely strong, its a okay damage gimmick that doesn't work well on important enemys, and espeically when you want to omega buff your damage to kill bosses, it doesn't help against bosses which is the main reason to take shock+augment on your frame.

Gas?  😆. You wound me, kind sir.  To the core.

I am your beloved Valkyr, now tears and dust.

[SmokinDice]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Gas?  😆. You wound me, kind sir.  To the core.

I am your beloved Valkyr, now tears and dust.

I mean, to me its the same, both dont deal very exciting damage. both are not really used. and even together they are to weak. that was my point here.

[korusef]

17 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

to be a good little kitty that leashes itself to a fixed location all the time?

Yes, like those mission where you have waves of enemies just coming at you and you just want to slice & dice them all.
Speaking of gimmicky builds: Radiant Finish - Fatal Teleport Ash should be pulling some insane finisher numbers.

[SmokinDice]

2 hours ago, korusef said:

Yes, like those mission where you have waves of enemies just coming at you and you just want to slice & dice them all.
Speaking of gimmicky builds: Radiant Finish - Fatal Teleport Ash should be pulling some insane finisher numbers.

wouldn't silence be better for it? its always active