(PSN)NeunDrachen Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, SmokinDice said: wouldn't silence be better for it? its always active Plus the augment boosts finisher dmg by 300% so thatd make more sense on a finisher build. Sadly my ash is going on the chopping block since ivara and wisp are my go to stealth frames Armor stripping ivara or a larva wisp for breach surge shenanigans? Yes please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttylerrocks4u Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 2020-08-14 at 2:50 PM, ZarTham said: When mobs are able to 1 shot you, 1500 armor isn't going to save you. Things like Rolling Guard and Vazarin are S Tier, not Defy. Uhhhhh.....1 shot? We all are vets here right? My volt as it stands right now has a EHP of about 30k. This ability is a god send for the reasons listed: *status cleanser- very few things outside of specific warframes/abilities/sentinels do this. *scaling damage-whatever damage u can take in the 2 secs of invulnerability is what u deal with a multiplicative addition. IE damage done by a lvl 100 will be far different then damage done by a lvl 1000. Thus its scaling also a easy rolling guard replacement. Duration makes this invulnerability period last longer. *1500 armor- the bread and butter of EHP scales and offers harder linear boost then both raw health or sheilds. Lasts and scales with duration again for how long it lasts. What u have to build for this to capitolize. Nothing. U can keep your build and add a great option at no change to your setup. So because its low maintence or low requirments giving it ease of use definetly should raise its level greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttylerrocks4u Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 2020-08-14 at 11:26 AM, lukinu_u said: Pillage will function the same exept it consume energy for shield, which completely remove the purpose of the ability because you can't recover the used resource on cast by simply using the ability well. For me, this make the ability complete trash, especially as it's only good on Hildryn because her unique 3 second shield gating. removing and stripping armor is complete trash? Especially on frame that does not have this capability? I am sorry but pillage on frames that lack surv and a way to strip armor are gonna benefit greatly. May i remind u of nuke volt. Volt has always been limited from being amazing nuker because armor and sheilds are a thing. Volt never needed a scaling option he just needed a way to remove armor. He got it in pillage. Plus acting like a capacitence in one omg prepare to see nuke volts in high levels taking all that damage from khoras and saryns. Energy efficency and regen is very easy so many ways to work around keeping up energy. Pizzas, dethcube, zenurick, secondary exilus, equilibrium, arcane energize, and rage/hunter adrenaline. Im sure there is more but energy is so easy to get back and maintain. I can only speak on behalf of volt but im sure there are other frames that have this ability to nuke a room but never had a way to remove armor/sheilds. Pillage will be more then welcome to me and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZarTham Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 5 hours ago, ttylerrocks4u said: Uhhhhh.....1 shot? We all are vets here right? My volt as it stands right now has a EHP of about 30k. This ability is a god send for the reasons listed: *status cleanser- very few things outside of specific warframes/abilities/sentinels do this. *scaling damage-whatever damage u can take in the 2 secs of invulnerability is what u deal with a multiplicative addition. IE damage done by a lvl 100 will be far different then damage done by a lvl 1000. Thus its scaling also a easy rolling guard replacement. Duration makes this invulnerability period last longer. *1500 armor- the bread and butter of EHP scales and offers harder linear boost then both raw health or sheilds. Lasts and scales with duration again for how long it lasts. What u have to build for this to capitolize. Nothing. U can keep your build and add a great option at no change to your setup. So because its low maintence or low requirments giving it ease of use definetly should raise its level greatly. Right.. I forgot we're talking about star chart level stuff, sorry my bad /s. I can bet my plat that only a handful of frame, and by a handful I mean, about 2 or 3 frames, will actually benefit from Defy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernoc Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 looks rly bad. would say most of them are over/under rated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttylerrocks4u Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 5 hours ago, ZarTham said: Right.. I forgot we're talking about star chart level stuff, sorry my bad /s. I can bet my plat that only a handful of frame, and by a handful I mean, about 2 or 3 frames, will actually benefit from Defy. lol you dont get it XD. Its cause its easy to use without having to change a build. It just like roar in a sense that you can put it on and forget and not have to do a damn thing to change how to survive. Star chart? Are you serious this is a survival ability thats brain dead and can be nice for high level 4+ hour sittings for steel path clear and more. Things defy can change or allow you to replace on a set up: *Rolling guard *Arcane Ultimatum *Health Conversion *Arcane Tanker *Arcane Guardian *Umbral Fiber *Fiber *Wyrm Sentinel *Spectre can be something that doesnt or didnt give cleansing status effects, armor, or invulnerability. ***A Scaling Ability-lots of a frames dont have this by any means and no way to get this without change your frame all together There is probably more im missing just cause of how many things there are but the point is it can min/max and replace alot of stuff for an ability that requires no investment or building into it. Specifically this is gonna free up a couple mod slots, Arcanes, and if you were using wyrm for its status cleaner mod that too. As for frames thatll benefit youll give your entire plat eh? Well let me tell you group or specific frames that will benefit shall I remind you there is literally 43 frames in the game and out of 43 frames you think only 2 or 3 are you mental??? Even a person who knows basic math gonna be like hey wait a minute. *Banshee- Squishy is what squishy does. Hardly ever seen one in high levels. Her Kit is very offensive and team oriented but she suffers in survivability. Replace her 4 with this and boom you dont have to build some weird thing around a skaijati and arcane trickery since you cant have 2 of the same arcanes. Plus alot of builds of banshee revolve around duration meaning. That youll have that 1500 armor for a while and be invulnerable to a greater period of time too. Can see Defy+augur mods being a thing to help her survive and do what she does best break the damage integer. Also wonder what the damage part of defy is gonna do towards enemies that have already been affected by her 2 around her......hmmmmmmmmmmm. *Nova-Now I know you gonna say she has null star why she need defy. Well every kit i have seen revolves around high duration and is either situated towards null star or molecular prime. The problem is that the flat 90 DR is tricky sometimes even for a nova because they may want to go Slova or Fastva which would and could take away from this as well. But what if some builds we could add defy giving her that DR plus that additional armor would put you past a 90% DR. She would become a fantastic tank if a player desired this even if it wasnt optimized towards her null star. *Rhino-Man needs armor for his Iron Skin. Defy gives 1500 of it that is then multiplied by 250%. The question is with a normal rhino build do you get more armor from warcry or Elemental ward. Mind you the latter two require you to build for duration. While Defy you can literally slap on and call it good. Easy trade out for his 1. *Volt-I love volt to death and can literally outdamage anyone i wish or choose. However, Between all the QT, Augur, shield gating, or arcanes i put on him defy is going to give me more options to min max my main build i use of him to even get higher EHP. Mind you this is for a tank based Volt as I have a second build that will revolve around his nuking capabilities when i want to have fun. *Ember- Give her the sustain to go with her DR like Nova and you got a nice tanky killing machine. *Mag- Give will give her some sustain on her already awesome kit. Honestly there are so many frames and playstyle that will benefit, these are just a few from the top of my head. You probably will have alot more frames that well benefit from it then you realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPrime96 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 2020-08-14 at 1:41 PM, JackHargreav said: Yup and armor boost. But most frames don't even have that much armor. So that's pretty much useless. And with how fast Armor falls off at High Levels without Flat DR, the Attack Speed from Warcry becomes more worth mentioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDice Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 5 hours ago, ttylerrocks4u said: Honestly there are so many frames and playstyle that will benefit, these are just a few from the top of my head. You probably will have alot more frames that well benefit from it then you realize. YES! 9 hours ago, Vernoc said: looks rly bad. would say most of them are over/under rated maybe share your thoughts with us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 10 hours ago, GPrime96 said: And with how fast Armor falls off at High Levels without Flat DR, the Attack Speed from Warcry becomes more worth mentioning. Yeah but It's melee speed. And melee is not that great when you are getting overwhelmed. On survival and exterminate It's all fine if you use it on a frame that can take a hit but on defense you're better off with a recastable cc ability. I much prefer Cc because I want to build my frames to every mission type instead of just concentrating on just damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korusef Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 On 2020-08-16 at 6:05 PM, (PS4)NeunDrachen said: Plus the augment boosts finisher dmg by 300% so thatd make more sense on a finisher build. Sadly my ash is going on the chopping block since ivara and wisp are my go to stealth frames Armor stripping ivara or a larva wisp for breach surge shenanigans? Yes please Radian Finish does the same 300% boost. I picked Radiant Blind because the Cc lasts longer than Silence, but Silence is definitely another viable option. I do not think we will be so lucky, but if Silence and Radiant Blind with their augments stack it will make Banshee even more op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazerXPrime Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 I think this whole helminth system sounds cool, but it will also break the game and make certain frames not ever played again. DE will probably come to this conclusion in a month after release and then try to remove some of the abilities from the list having to return sacrified frames to players and that will work for about 50% so the other half will lose their S#&$. And then a month later they will probably decide the whole Helminth system was a bad decision and they will remove it from the game completely. The only way I see this "work" is if DE implements a 50% stat nerf on the abilities obtained. But even then I don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)NeunDrachen Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, korusef said: Radian Finish does the same 300% boost. I picked Radiant Blind because the Cc lasts longer than Silence, but Silence is definitely another viable option. I do not think we will be so lucky, but if Silence and Radiant Blind with their augments stack it will make Banshee even more op. They should technically stack. Itd be easy to test it out now before the update. The only edge silence has over radial would be the fact it also silences noise in the vicinity so you can use yer guns if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ATreidezz Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 On 2020-08-14 at 11:18 PM, SmokinDice said: Hide contents - Frost - Ice Wave Terrible ability, dont use it ever.. Wut?! This thing and ice wave impedance augment saved me more than snow globe you know... And im talking about steel path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaudari Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Gonna have to put Mind Control up in at least A tier imo due to the augment. If you have the augment, with no strength mods, it makes your mind controlled ally do 500% damage. I can easily see which warframes it would benefit the most. Limbo is 1 of them so that he can have enemies outside the bubble fight each other while he defends the objective. Nekros for more Minions since the cap is at 7 with his 4th ability & then replacing idk, soul punch with that (keep in mind you can have different builds so the 1st build will not have soul punch) maybe even Loki the trickster, Mind control would up his CC game a tiny bit but its crowd control, loki making others fight each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurquoiseGnome Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Roar is a good ability to fall back on if you can't find another ability that fits your playstyle with a specific warframe. Synergy is a much more valuable than a generic damage buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Glitschig Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 21 hours ago, RazerXPrime said: I think this whole helminth system sounds cool, but it will also break the game and make certain frames not ever played again. DE will probably come to this conclusion in a month after release and then try to remove some of the abilities from the list having to return sacrified frames to players and that will work for about 50% so the other half will lose their S#&$. And then a month later they will probably decide the whole Helminth system was a bad decision and they will remove it from the game completely. The only way I see this "work" is if DE implements a 50% stat nerf on the abilities obtained. But even then I don't like it. Yes. Same things I was saying a few days ago. I don't think DE has shown us they can balance a game enough for this not to get out of hand. There is no doubt there will be ahandful of incredibly nasty synergy builds that are going to take over. Maybe a pillaged volt, maybe a Savage silence augmented fatal teleport Ash,...something. but it will reduce us down to common denominator meta builds like never before and De will take a few months to collect the data they know is already coming so they can justify it but in the meantime will soak up thousands of small transactions as we buy frames, config slots, pay for augments, rush builds, etc. In the end, it will be broken and reworked. On the flip side, it is nice to think that some people will have, for a while, the ability to have some fun. We will see tankier banshees and mirages in high level. We will see an Inaros with Lull role playing a mister sandman build, putting everything to sleep and finishing them off without the faintest threat of injury. We will have those things...for a bit...just don't expect it to last (especially when a frame like volt starts eating saryn's lunch). People's oxes are going to get gored so it's going to be not friendly at times when comparing frames, going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZarTham Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 @SmokinDice Congrats, you've managed to make a S#&$ty abilitty (Defy) even more S#&$ty. Hope you're glad about it. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDice Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 6 hours ago, ZarTham said: @SmokinDice Congrats, you've managed to make a S#&$ty abilitty (Defy) even more S#&$ty. Hope you're glad about it. LOL hey man, this thread I guarantee you has 0 impact in the stupid descissions DE still keeps on making.. rip this system, #*!% this whole idea. DE ALWAYS makes such terrible decissions and design mistakes and have 0 clue how to balance a game properly.. I am not only once again angry, but really really upset.. De has made a great game, but to me, player agancy, dynamic gameplay, balance, and power fatansy and more than everything else CONSISTANCY are the MOST important aspects of good game design.. and DE keeps failing to achieve this and """"""""""fix"""""""""" it most of the time with the MOST stupidisted solution any human beeing could come up with.. so yeah.. my excitement for this system is gone, and so once again are my hopes for DE understanding what we want and how gameplay is suppose to be fun and player driven... BIG RIP to all of those decissions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yual Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 DE didnt even showed the numbers for the abilities nerfed yet and everyone act like the whole helminth systeme is death. Hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, Yual said: DE didnt even showed the numbers for the abilities nerfed yet and everyone act like the whole helminth systeme is death. Hilarious Its normal here. Focus was the same. Archwing was the same when it was changed. Trinity was the same on her 25 nerfs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDice Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 48 minutes ago, Yual said: DE didnt even showed the numbers for the abilities nerfed yet and everyone act like the whole helminth systeme is death. Hilarious has nothing to do with numbers.. but the next bitter and sour taste it leaves in your mouth.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Thomas_Phoenix Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Why make everything bad? Just have fun and stop complain things. DE nerf because many people cry about something, so wil nerf more again, Let people be creative and buld insane gameplay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Tormex_ Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 On 2020-08-14 at 12:18 PM, SmokinDice said: - Titania - Spellbind Its just an okay little CC that you might want to use. but its augment will generate energy for you if you at least hit 4 enemys with it.. so if you are looking to generate some energy, this might be for you! Spellbind gives status immunity for a decent duration. 90% of the time that I use this ability is for the status immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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