SmokinDice Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 EDIT: no need to read this list, since DE has fliped it up once again anyway.. DE has made SUCH a great game, but to me, player agancy, dynamic gameplay, balance, and power fatansy and more than everything else CONSISTANCY are the MOST important aspects of good game design.. and DE keeps failing to achieve this and """"""""""fix"""""""""" it most of the time with the MOST stupidisted solution any human beeing could come up with.. so yeah.. my excitement for this system is gone, and so once again are my hopes for DE understanding what we want and how gameplay is suppose to be fun and player driven... BIG RIP to all of those decissions.. Since this is a very hot topic that got a lot controversy around it, I wanted to make a Tier List for these new skills available to all frames and rank them accordingly. This is absolutly subjective! but I try to sprinkle some objectivity into it! so lets discuss and please give your opinions and ideas as well! of course this is just for fun! to bridge the time while we wait for this amazing new update! so dont take it TOO serious please. 🙂 S Tier These will be the strongest abilities you definitly want! they will be extremely valuable in any scenario! or break the boundaries of the game as we knew it Spoiler - Rhino - Roar The meta breaker! if you want to kill bosses, you no longer use rhino ever.. you use the warframe that has the most damage available and just slam roar on there. remember that this ability buffs ALL damage, including other warframe abilities! this is honestly crazy and potentially dangerous, and really sad for rhinos. - Nidus - Larva This is Top Tier CC.. not only does it hold enemys in place, but it also bundles them up, and this will be extremely valuable for many many frames! might even be S Tier with how easy to use and good it is with no augment - Khora - Ensnare "Copy paste Nidus text" both khoras and nidus' ability fullfill the same role by working mechanically a little diffrent, larva need line of sight, but no target. ensnare needs a target but has no line of sight requirement.. so basically just pick what suits you best.. I think these two abilitys might be the most used in the game. - Protea - Dispensary I am kind of sad that we dont got the grenades since they would have been much more convenient to use than condemn is, but none the less this ability is amazing for its utility. you can absoulty even build around this ability on some frames with stuff like equilibrium and never worry about health or energy ever again, just camp and use high energy abilitys to destroy your foes and keep beeing healthy and energized! - Baruuk - Lull Since Baruuk is amazing, all of his abilities would have been placed here. Lull is an insane CC with huge range and duration. with its augment you dont even loose to much duration and have a chain going to perma CC the whole game, this will definitly be used to great effect! - Valkyr - Warcry Goodbye my lover.. Goodbye my friend! You have been the one..You have been the one for me........ this is what Valkyr was. this is all that was left of her.. all her other abilities are garbage really.. so this sole abiltys was Valkyr.. and now.. its gone.. everbody can use it.. Valkyr.. I loved you for so long.. even when you were down.. but with this change, I will sadly have no reason to play you ever again.. but with your dying breath, you give us one of the greatest presents you could have given us.. this ability will be insane on SO SO many frames and solo builds or if you just want to Fing hack and slash and rage through hords of enemys to get revenge for our loss today.. Rest in Peace Valkyr, and thank you ❤️ - Equinox - Rest & Rage this is an S tier ability because of its flexibility.. yes it is just a weaker Lull when you just want the CC.. BUT you can just use a bright energy color and all of the sudden you are a mini speed nova that increase speed of enemys to run towards you faster AND deal more damage to them! having both options available on one ability make this extremely valuable! - Ivara - Quiver it only provides you with cloak arrow and noise arrow, that beeing said it IS the only ability that grant universal invisability to every warframe in the game! it is only very stationary, I dont think there is a way to shoot yourself or your sentinel anymore. But this will most definitly have some syngergy with some specific frames and builds and is HUGE for survivability - Wukong - Defy This is the main alternative to Novas Null Star! its quite a bit weaker but it is Damage reduction! and some frames despereatly need it! so if you have trouble fitting nullstar and its augment into your build you might want to consider this as your defensive option! A Tier These are the really good abiliies that fulfill a specific need that you might want to flesh out your build! Spoiler - Octavia - Resonator since Larva and Ensnare are in the pool I will rank this lower as it should be.. it is amazing CC that pulls enemys together and totally shut their AI down, BUT it is always moving and dont bundle enemys up as much as larva does.. so since the other two options are just way stronger, I place it a bit lower - Harrow - Condemn its a nice bit off CC for some frames, but the more important part is that it generates a TON of shields in the right build, not only that, but it can also provide you with overshields, making it one of the premiere choices if you want to make your warframe more defensive via a shield build and utalize shieldgating! - Excalibur - Radial Blind it has been an amazing CC ever since Beta basically, it opens enemys up to finishers with by itelsf has a lot of syngergy with other skills has a long duration and a nice bit of range, if you want CC this is definitly and easy option! - Atlas - Petrify This is an amazing CC ability, you can just lock a whole corridor down with it, and holds enemys in place no matter what. the augment give extera loot which many people always desire, but if you have a high range duration build and no CC that you might want to add this! - Inaros - Desiccation Well if you cant decide if you want atlas' cone shaped CC or the blind from Excal.. whyn ot both? this ability is excelent CC that also opens enemys up to finisher. its a combination of excal and atlas with positives and negatives.. oh yeah and it also heals you for very VERY little amounts.. - Hildryn - Pillage I dont know exactly how this will paly out yet, instead of shields, this skill will cost 50 energy to cast.. but it does steal ALOT of shield and also amror from enemys! so it will definiztly help you to stay alive and also deal more damage! - Oberon - Smite Do not underastimate this ability just because it is a 1.. first of all it does % base damage, which already is pretty good, it reduces enemy damage output AND has a chance to CC them, it also hits a ton of enemys at the same time.. so even base smite is very useful.. BUT ofcourse this comes with an augment.. an augment that buffs your and your teams damage by adding 100% radiation damage to everything you do.. so this will definitly become a choice for you if you want to min max your damage output! - Mirage - Eclipse While we still dont have a good way to control if we are in the light or the dark, this skill still is insane. it gives a huge damage buff OR a huge damage reduction. so if you use this well, this will be an extremely strong choice! - Nova - Nullstar There it is boys, this is it. this is your bandaid fix to now be able to play your favorite squishy warframe and finally not be squishy again, given it will not fit EVERY build.. if you just want to be a tanky boy, you can now be it on everyone! - Xaku - Xata's Whisper Its a damage increase, we dont know how much, but it will probably be a good choice if you just want damage! B Tier These are Frame specific abilites that you want to use for their special syngergy! Spoiler - Volt - Shock The definiton of B Tier. the skill by itself is pretty underwhelming, just a little CC, but the augment might give it a place on many Meta damage builds to kill bosses faster. - Ember - Fire Blast It is honestly not to bad.. it strips armor by 50% in a decent area which by itself is pretty good. and with the augment you can get a heal on warframes that you want some form of small regen every now and then. I can see this beeing used as a combination of an armor strip + defensive option in some build! - Gauss - Thermal Sunder this again strips armor off of enemys while at the same time can provide a little bit of CC, so it is very flexible, I dont believe we get to strip all armor with the blast proc, but 50% from the heat proc is already pretty nice to use. so it mind find some uses! - Trinity - Well Of Life with its buff this might be a decent healing option. so if all you ever wanted was just another convenient way to heal, that this is your best bet! - Nezha - Fire Walker it makes you faster, look cool, gives you some nice CC and possibly armor reduction. it a very nice ability if you dont need anything particular and just want to replace an ability for fun! - Grendel - Nourish its a very small self heal since you never have enemys inside your belly as anyone other than grendel. BUT it gives you a 50% toxin damage buff.. and buffs are never to be underastimated.. so I will cautiously place it in C tier for now, as I think they are better options for that. - Mesa - Shooting Gallery its a small damage increase with very little CC added to it.. its not amazing but it does increase your damage, so use it if you desperatly need a damage buff C Tier These are abilites that you definitly want to use for their augment to compliment your build! Spoiler - Ash - Shuriken Definitly a useful ability with its augment, yes it costs you an augment slot in your build, but if you have some strength in your build already, and no good way to strip armor, then this skill might be for you! - Gara - Spectrorage the ability by itself is a pretty okay little CC.. but with its augment you can really get some energy out of this ability! so if you struggle with energy consumption in your build, just throw this is with its augment and never have energy problems again! - Saryn - Molt I place it here not really because of its augment which definitly is a nice way to heal on some frames that love to have a bit of regen, but also because it is a pretty nice speed increase and takes some fire away from you, so it can do quite a bit, but for healing, run speed, or distraction, there are just better option, if you want all three take this! - Titania - Spellbind Its just an okay little CC that you might want to use or if you desperatly need Status immunity. but its augment will generate energy for you if you at least hit 4 enemys with it.. so if you are looking to generate some energy, this might be for you! - Vauban - Tesla Nervos On its own the ability is more fun to use that actual useful, but with its augment you can deal some pretty busted AoE damage, so this might be a consideration for some builds! D Tier these are the very niche abilities that mind find a narrow home, but are definitly not needed Spoiler - Banshee - SIlence The ability on its own is pretty bad and you would never use it on its own.. buuuut with the augment I can see a finisher style build that wants to have silence active JUST for its augment which gives a ton of finisher damage! - Revenant - Reave IF you are desperate for a movement skill, that this is your only option to get it, it make you invuklnerable for a short duration and even heals you, its definitly okay to use, but doesn't provide much. - Garuda - Blood Altar If you struggle with survivablity and like to play very stationary, then this ability might be for you, it keeps you decently health while trying to hold down a specific area. - Limbo - Banish I think this ability will be more confusing to people than it is helpful.. it basically removes enemys from existence yes, but in the long run and if you play with other people, this might get confusing fast. but it is solid enemy removal for a short time and therefore could find some uses. - Mag - Pull I mean, it does stuff, but not really.. uit pulls enemys together and can also make you pick items up more easy.. and yes it was meta at one point, but we are far beyond that already and no one ever has energy issue anymore.. so yeah.. - Nekros - Terrify It is mediocre CC that makes enemys run away.. not ideal.. but it is still CC E Tier eh? Spoiler - Chroma - Elemental Ward it can give you more health maybe? if you desperatly need it.. can give you some shield on hyldrin maybe if you really need that? the reflect is useless.. toxin, no.. the armor increase could be used on some frames to get even tankier, and again the reflect is useless.. I dont see a good use yet, but it is not terrible.. - Hydroid - Tempest Barrage its an okay ability to have. some rng CC and some armor strip with the augment, this ability needs a buff but it is okay some what. F TIer Why DE.. aka .F is for Frustrated Spoiler - Frost - Ice Wave Terrible ability, dont use it ever.. - Loki - Decoy why not at least switch teleport? decoy is terrible.. - Nyx - Mind Control WHY not Psychic bolts?? why?? it would have been an amazing armor stripper for frames that need it desperatly.. but noo we get a do nothing ability literally 😧 ( I love nyx deeply, more than any of you.. but I NEVER pressed this button.. in almost 7 years of playing this frame..) psychic bolt on other frames would have been SO good.. huge missed opportunity here.. - Zephyr - Airburst Even with its buff I think this is meh and probalby F tier garbage that you never want to use.. its the most boring ability in the whole game.. Special mention: Wisp is NOT on this list for a very particular reason.. we will see what happens and go from there.. SO this is MY list.. please let me know if you find something to be odd or want to discuss! are you hyped about this new feature? did I miss anything? what Warframe ability are you the most excited about? LEt me know and talk about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukinu_u Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Please no, stop with tier lists in Warframe, they are always wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukinu_u Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Sorry for double post, unintentionally hit the "send" button and cannot edit to add mention, so... il y a 4 minutes, SmokinDice a dit : - Hildryn - Pillage I dont know HOW exactly this will work yet, but this is basically completly diffrent from what pillage does on hildryn.. instead of shields, this skill will steal ENERGY from enemys.. we dont know how this works yet and how much energy it is going to steal.. BUT this is basically a free "get energy now" and should in theory remove all energy needs on anything ever and is probably busted for that alone.. peed of enemys to run towards you faster AND deal more damage to them! having both options available on one ability make this extremely valuable! Pillage will function the same exept it consume energy for shield, which completely remove the purpose of the ability because you can't recover the used resource on cast by simply using the ability well. For me, this make the ability complete trash, especially as it's only good on Hildryn because her unique 3 second shield gating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzerkules Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I'll never agree with tier lists. Too many different play styles. I stopped reading after I saw Null star at the top of the list. Who need damage reduction when we have shield gating. Since what fits my play style does not fit yours, pretty much everything listed after Null Star is most likely null and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDice Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, lukinu_u said: Sorry for double post, unintentionally hit the "send" button and cannot edit to add mention, so... Pillage will function the same exept it consume energy for shield, which completely remove the purpose of the ability because you can't recover the used resource on cast by simply using the ability well. For me, this make the ability complete trash, especially as it's only good on Hildryn because her unique 3 second shield gating. can you explain more? because the source I found its states: "Drains Energy instead of Shields." so this sounds like it has nothing to do with shields at all and will instead refill energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl_3 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I wouldn't post a tier list until at least the 3rd round of nerfs after the launch. If an ability is too strong, I give it a few days before the nerf hammer strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TwinStripeUK Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Also, when thinking about these abilities, don't just think about them in isolation, think about what they synergize with. For example, Ice Wave might be 'terrible', but think about it on a frame with innate toxin or electrical damage, especially if replacing a weak native ability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks013 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I think i will have to disagree a little on mag pull and quiver because those can be extremely broken. Remember when they nerfed Greedy pull ? Well now they all can have it so this nerf is no more ^.^ That means affinity farming just took a whole new turn ^.^ ... again ^.^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irhyo Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, SmokinDice said: can you explain more? because the source I found its states: "Drains Energy instead of Shields." so this sounds like it has nothing to do with shields at all and will instead refill energy. Drains YOUR energy instead of shields. Pillage costs 150 shields to cast for Hildryn, it will be changed so it costs 50 energy to cast for every other frame. Its effect on the enemies will stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumtulpe Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Hey, you got Roar right. To be fair, that wasn't a hard one. Pretty off otherwise; Null Star? Unless you already have ~300% duration, this will do nothing for a squishy Warframe. Then you'll want the augment to not be stuck with 5% DR. And health. 6 mods to have worse defense than shield gating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDice Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Irhyo said: Drains YOUR energy instead of shields. Pillage costs 150 shields to cast for Hildryn, it will be changed so it costs 50 energy to cast for every other frame. Its effect on the enemies will stay the same. aaaaah I see! thanks for clearing it up! already though that.. and fixed it and changed some stuff around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukinu_u Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 il y a 9 minutes, SmokinDice a dit : can you explain more? because the source I found its states: "Drains Energy instead of Shields." so this sounds like it has nothing to do with shields at all and will instead refill energy. It says "Drain 50 Energy instead of 50 shield", which seems to be the energy cost. Since the ability drain 25% of the their current shield/armor and convert these to shield. Otherwise, they would have stated "Drain 25% Energy instead of 50% shield/armor" or something in these lines. Also, enemies don't have energy, so they would have stated something more like "convert drained shield/armor into energy". I can't confirm, but the way it's stated seems like it simply cost energy instead of shield to cast, but still work the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Vauban's Tesla should be on the highest possible tier on its own. Because his balls shoot shock others when they are in their presence. And now everyone can have Booben's balls in their hands. Handle with care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Airburst in F? I know it's not the most desirable ability since Lull is a thing but come on. That ability is a really solid fast CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)C11H22O11 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Valkyr dead? No. Warframes with strength and duration will benefit from war cry but that's only a few of them. Valkyr is also one of the tankiest warframes in the game and she doesn't even need abilities to do that. Now that I think about it roar is similar to war cry, it's not for every Warframe unless someone wants to build around it for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexiConArtist Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 25 minutes ago, SmokinDice said: - Octavia - Resonator since Larva and Ensnare are in the pool I will rank this way lower as it should be.. it is amazing CC that pulls enemys together and totally lock them down, BUT it is always moving and dont bundle enemys up as much as larva does.. so since the other two otions are just way stronger, Resonater will get a D from me. Turns off AI. Persists to immediately affect all new enemies that spawn in in a potentially ludicrous range, don't have to cast it very often. Octavia doesn't have anything below A tier in that kit. Also, we get augments. Conductor is even an exilus augment. There's your 'always moving' problem dealt with too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 The forums are rife with misinformation and people that admit they dont want to read about or try to be better at the game. Always remember that you're allowed to use whatever abilities you want and whatever you can like can be good despite what some youtuber or casual says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDice Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said: Hey, you got Roar right. To be fair, that wasn't a hard one. Pretty off otherwise; Null Star? Unless you already have ~300% duration, this will do nothing for a squishy Warframe. Then you'll want the augment to not be stuck with 5% DR. And health. 6 mods to have worse defense than shield gating... dont underastimate the lazyness of people! shieldgating is also a reaction thing and still requires you to play well and pay attention to not get killed a second later, and also requires some mods on those frames that many find questionable (the lazy guys like me) and just having absolute DR that makes you ignore a lot of the difficulty all together is a blessing fr many people. ^^ 8 minutes ago, lukinu_u said: t says "Drain 50 Energy instead of 50 shield", I see, see I thought that was weird because it normally drains 150 shields.. so it added to my confusen, but I corrected it already and moved some stuff around! 5 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said: Turns off AI. Persists to immediately affect all new enemies that spawn in in a potentially ludicrous range, don't have to cast it very often. Octavia doesn't have anything below A tier in that kit. I know, thats why I gave it reasoning.. I just dont think you would ever use it over larva or ensnare would you? EDIT: you are probalby right, and I didn't think the same about other similar abilitys, so I moved it to A. 🙂 3 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said: Always remember that you're allowed to use whatever abilities you want and whatever you can like can be good despite what some youtuber or casual says. absolutly, and as stated this is just for fun, so dont be to serious about it 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNDM9999 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 wisp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDice Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 minute ago, RNDM9999 said: wisp? sssshhh, we dont talk about wisp for now 🤫 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silver1593 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Inaros with roar , volt with defy 🤩 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumtulpe Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, SmokinDice said: we dont talk about wisp for now They'll just make it so you can only replace Seeking Talons with Breach Surge. Precedent exists with damage buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Now make Tier lists based on builds, mission type and length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinDice Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said: Valkyr dead? No. Warframes with strength and duration will benefit from war cry but that's only a few of them. Valkyr is also one of the tankiest warframes in the game and she doesn't even need abilities to do that. Now that I think about it roar is similar to war cry, it's not for every Warframe unless someone wants to build around it for some reason why would you NOT want to build around it? eternal war cry by itself is a build, now put this on anyone with decent support for this style of play and it will make them extremely fun and way stronger! or you go total attackspeed bonkers and give this to someone like volt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmicKerman Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I get the distinct impression that you haven't fully thought through the build requirements for certain abilities. For example, for null star you want high duration and low range. There are not a ton of frames that want DR and build appropriately to take advantage of Null Star. More over a lot of frames that could benefit from DR have either low duration or high range making Null Star a bad choice. It also can't be refreshed without an augment further decreasing its utility. Finally, Null Star is rarely, if ever, the best option for any particular frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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